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post #1 of 233 Old 01-18-2010, 04:54 PM - Thread Starter
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I occasion over to this forum just to be amazed at the things you guys are doing over here. I've even been chastised in the past by Chris for complaining about how hard this is and why somebody didn't do a simple guide to explain all this stuff.

Here's where I am now.

I dabble in all elements HT, including CIH, projectors (106" screen with an Epson 1080UB) and I have 7 HDTV's in my home ranging from 40" plasmas TO 55" LCD's and everything in-between with all sorts of components from VP50's to Edges to PS3's to DTV HD PVRs and almost everything in-between.

Craig Rounds once even calibrated a Mits 62 DLP that I bought and basically junked a month ago for the famous capacitor problem so I KNOW what a calibrated set is suppose to look like and that set was AWESOME after Craig finished with it.

Anyway... here's the rub. I REALLY need to calibrate my stuff. Always have needed to. I've always been scared to death to though because... are you ready for this? I'm color-blind. BAD.

I bought a SpyderTV (1st gen) a few years ago and dabbled in the color space with pretty good results. Why? It was simple. I didn't have to be able to see anything except to read and do what it said. It worked OK for what it was.

Fast-forward to today... I just bought a Spyder3TV and have played with it a little (again, color only to this point) but I want to do some gray scale tuning. I know all my displays need it but, of course, the Spyder3TV software doesn't touch gray scale.

I watched this thread on CalMan since its inception, basically. Watched it go through its development cycle and everything up through today. It just looks too complicated to me; especially being color blind.

Then I see this thread on this new product called ChromaPure. I went and looked at the demo and the videos and I figured even an idiot as perfect as myself could use this thing! This looks GREAT. I do this and find that there is a VERY small subset of meters supported and that my beloved new Spyder3 isn't among them (Let's not turn this into a discussion as to how big of a POS some of you think the Spyder is, OK? ).

I know CalMan supports the Spyder3. I just wish it looked anywhere as simple to use as ChromaPure. Is it? Am I just imagining that ChromaPure looks so easy and CalMan looks so hard? Are there any plans to support the Spyder3 in ChromaPure? IF, and that's a HUGE if; you were going to suck it up and buy a package with a supported meter, which one would you buy if you were and absolute calibration idiot AND color-blind?

Is there an economical solution for me? Can I make CalMan and my Spyder3 work? Is it idiot-proof to an adequately equipped idiot like me that's color-blind too?

Thanks,
-bob

HDTV in my home since 1999.
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post #2 of 233 Old 01-18-2010, 05:08 PM
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All I can say is that the open beta for calman 4 is coming soon, and it will be a free upgrade if you buy calman v3 today.

Here's Derek doing a preview:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HupU7...eature=related

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post #3 of 233 Old 01-18-2010, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilson-Flyer View Post

Are there any plans to support the Spyder3 in ChromaPure? IF, and that's a HUGE if; you were going to suck it up and buy a package with a supported meter, which one would you buy if you were and absolute calibration idiot AND color-blind?

No current plans. The cheapest alternative option would be to get an X-Rite Display 2.

Tom Huffman
ChromaPure Software/AccuPel Video Signal Generators
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post #4 of 233 Old 01-18-2010, 11:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilson-Flyer View Post

I know CalMan supports the Spyder3. I just wish it looked anywhere as simple to use as ChromaPure. Is it? Am I just imagining that ChromaPure looks so easy and CalMan looks so hard? Are there any plans to support the Spyder3 in ChromaPure? IF, and that's a HUGE if; you were going to suck it up and buy a package with a supported meter, which one would you buy if you were and absolute calibration idiot AND color-blind?

I'm not sure why you say or think ChromaPure is any easier to use than CalMAN. Both are based on a process workflow. Within CalMAN we guide you step by step including getting the meter and source setup correctly. Every step has full documentation and a explanation of what the goal and target for that step is. Also within each step we have our interactive help that explains what each chart is used for and what to look for within the chart itself. Another feature within CalMAN is our in depth tutorials that many have claimed are worth the price of CalMAN itself. But there is always room for improvement be it adding more meters or making CalMAN faster/easier to use so our updates are good for a full year from purchase, so when we release v4 you get the update for free.

A single CalMAN license for colorimeters will support just about any colorimeter made. The Spyder2, Spyder3, Display2, Display2 LT, DTP-94, ColorPro II, ColorMunki Create, Chroma5 and a handful of handheld light meters. We don't lock the license to the meter or it's serial number but by type "colorimeter" so if you get a Spyder3 today and don't like it but then get a Display2 or a DTP-94 you already have the license from us to support it nothing more to get from SpectraCal. You are also free to buy your meters from anyone you choose, we do have great bundles but if you find a meter cheaper elsewhere then buy it.

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post #5 of 233 Old 01-19-2010, 12:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Wilson-Flyer View Post

I watched this thread on CalMan since its inception, basically. Watched it go through its development cycle and everything up through today. It just looks too complicated to me; especially being color blind.

CalMAN or versions of it ColorPro by CalMAN are now being used by ISF including the new level 2 class and THX video in the classroom for teaching video calibration. If CalMAN was difficult to use or hard to learn I'm sure ISF and THX would have looked elsewhere for their classroom solutions.

In our 2 years of selling thousands of copies of CalMAN v3 we have had only a couple of requests for returns and those where about the meter itself or the display just could not be calibrated. This is why we allow you to download and use a full version of CalMAN before purchasing, to make sure you are comfortable with the whole process. The only thing we disable is talking with a real meter for obvious reasons but we do include a simulated meter in it's place.

I'm sure these guys know what they are talking about:

Gregg Lowen from THX:
"In my opinion this software needs to be a required part of every video calibrator's tool kit. Its state of the art gamma and color management manipulation capabilities make it the industry leader for working on the latest display technologies."

Joel Silver of ISF:
"ColorPro by CalMAN is a breakthrough in the areas of precision calibration, repeatability and ease of updates. We are proud to have been a part of its development!"

Derek

CTO / Founder - SpectraCal Inc.
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post #6 of 233 Old 01-19-2010, 12:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilson-Flyer View Post

Is there an economical solution for me? Can I make CalMan and my Spyder3 work? Is it idiot-proof to an adequately equipped idiot like me that's color-blind too?

Well bring color deficient myself you should only have a problem setting color/tint by eye or if you where trying to use an optical comparator for grayscale. Myself I'm 90% red deficient in my right eye from CSR while I still do see red it is much dimmer than it should be and very different than my left.

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post #7 of 233 Old 01-19-2010, 03:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Please answer one more stupid question for me, if you guys don't mind.

Being color deficient, it's hard to explain to someone that's not how important it is for me to be able to rely totally on my meter and the software I'm using. I bought a Spyder3 despite the horror stories I've read about some 2/3 of them not being accurate from the factory. I'm seriously re-thinking my decision to try to save a few bucks and considering buying at least an i-1 Display 2. At least it would be a step in the right direction, I guess.

I guess my real question if this. I have this vision in my head of a defective Spyder3 terribly messing up the color or grayscale on my display and my never even knowing it because the meter was defective, my software says everything's lovely, and because I'm color-blind; I wouldn't know the difference. Is this a legitimate concern or are we talking about differences so small that only a seasoned ISF professional could see? What's the real deal on these "defective" meters?

On the same thought, what about buying a used meter that's a couple of years old. I keep reading that meters get out of calibration in < a year sometimes? Really? Is it really enough to matter to the average home enthusiast? Again, I can't tell because I can't "see" the result. I'm trying to establish some comfort level with trusting my instruments without having to purchase a $5k meter to have that confidence.

Thanks!

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post #8 of 233 Old 01-19-2010, 03:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by derekjsmith View Post

CalMAN or versions of it ColorPro by CalMAN are now being used by ISF including the new level 2 class and THX video in the classroom for teaching video calibration. If CalMAN was difficult to use or hard to learn I'm sure ISF and THX would have looked elsewhere for their classroom solutions.

In our 2 years of selling thousands of copies of CalMAN v3 we have had only a couple of requests for returns and those where about the meter itself or the display just could not be calibrated. This is why we allow you to download and use a full version of CalMAN before purchasing, to make sure you are comfortable with the whole process. The only thing we disable is talking with a real meter for obvious reasons but we do include a simulated meter in it's place.

I'm sure these guys know what they are talking about:

Gregg Lowen from THX:
"In my opinion this software needs to be a required part of every video calibrator's tool kit. Its state of the art gamma and color management manipulation capabilities make it the industry leader for working on the latest display technologies."

Joel Silver of ISF:
"ColorPro by CalMAN is a breakthrough in the areas of precision calibration, repeatability and ease of updates. We are proud to have been a part of its development!"

Derek,

I feel honored that you would even jump in and reply to my thread. Please understand that I'm not questioning the complexity of CalMan from the perspective of a seasoned pro like these guys but from the seat of a hobbiest like myself.

I guess I just need to suck it up and buy the product and play with it. I'm just having a hard time getting my arms around what it does and how it works from the demo meter mode. I just don't "get it".

HDTV in my home since 1999.
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post #9 of 233 Old 01-19-2010, 03:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post

No current plans. The cheapest alternative option would be to get an X-Rite Display 2.

Thanks for jumping in here too. I'm still trying to decide what to do. It still appears to me that you have the easiest interface. I understand why you decided to limti the meters you support but I certainly like the "openness" of CalMan and its flexibility in changing meters in the future.

I don't know what to do. I guess I'm even more confused now than I was to begin with.

Every time I come in this forum and swear that "This time I'm going to buy something and do it", I just get frustrated with the complexity of it all and leave again for other ventures. I'm about to get that way all over again. I guess if I'm color-blind, it really shouldn't matter to me anyway!

I also watched Craig tune my DLP with his Sencore and software and sensors 5 years ago for almost 6 hours on my Mits DLP. I sure hope this stuff has got easier than it was since I watched him do it. I think going back to that is what keeps scaring me away. DAMN it looked hard watching him do his thing.

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post #10 of 233 Old 01-19-2010, 03:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Derek:

Watched the v.4 demo on uTube. WOW! Think you can get to a one-click button called "Fix-it!" that would work on my Samsung LCD's? How about my 1080UB?

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post #11 of 233 Old 01-19-2010, 05:46 AM
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Pardon me for jumping in but in my experience the biggest calibration learning curve is not software related. I recently bought ChromaPure and found it to be quite easy to learn but I don't think Calman is handicapped in that area either (I do think Calman has more customization options though). Having said that I used ColorHCFR at first but I ended up purchasing ChromaPure because ColorHCFR left me wanting. Using ChromaPure is very straightforward and it has a fantastic help file. Regardless of which program you use though, once you figure out how each module works (ie, say grayscale adjustment) you then have to figure out how to make the proper adjustments on the display. In many cases this means getting into the service menu and then figuring out which item(s) to adjust. This can be easy or complex depending on the display. For example, my Sony SXRD literally has thousands of items in the service menu and most of those are irrelevant to calibrating. Navigating thru this maze and figuring out which specific adjustment needed tweaking was my biggest challenge - I didn't have a handy checklist that specifically stated tweak this to fix that sorta thing. Neither ChromaPure nor Calman is going to help in this regard. I can't speak about any other displays so it may be easier to figure this out with your display, or perhaps you can find other owners who can guide you thru this but in my mind finding and making the proper adjustments is where the challenge lies, not in learning the software.

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post #12 of 233 Old 01-19-2010, 07:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Geof:

You bring up a VERY valid point. I guess I forgot all about that very significant part. How do you know what to adjust to correct this and that? I can't believe I forgot to ask that as significant as it is. That's part of what keeps running me away too. I just assumed the help and documentation would tell me this. Sounds like it may not. I'm not scared of Service Menus but I would like to know what I'm suppose to adjust to fix GrayScale. If neither product explains this, it seems they are missing the most important thing to me.

What gives?

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post #13 of 233 Old 01-19-2010, 08:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilson-Flyer View Post

Geof:

You bring up a VERY valid point. I guess I forgot all about that very significant part. How do you know what to adjust to correct this and that? I can't believe I forgot to ask that as significant as it is. That's part of what keeps running me away too. I just assumed the help and documentation would tell me this. Sounds like it may not. I'm not scared of Service Menus but I would like to know what I'm suppose to adjust to fix GrayScale. If neither product explains this, it seems they are missing the most important thing to me.

What gives?

There are just way too many TV's and pj's in the world to have everything for every display condensed into a help file. Unfortunately manufacturers are not consistent in labeling their adjustments and I've even noticed that Sony (for example) calls their items by different names depending on model. Multiply that by the hundreds of different brands and it quickly becomes a linguistic nightmare. Having the Service Manual helps and you can often find other owners and professional calibrators willing to help. Perhaps there is a market for some entrepreneur to sell concise guides for calibrating specific models but that would be a tremendous undertaking since there are so many models.

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post #14 of 233 Old 01-19-2010, 08:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geof View Post

I can't speak about any other displays so it may be easier to figure this out with your display, or perhaps you can find other owners who can guide you thru this but in my mind finding and making the proper adjustments is where the challenge lies, not in learning the software.

Geof, brings up a very good point. The hardest part of calibration is learning your display. That's why AVS has this "Display Calibration" forum for sharing experiences and knowledge. We also have support staff that are THX Video certified and our own forums. So in the end it's all about asking questions and just playing around with your display.

Derek

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post #15 of 233 Old 01-19-2010, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Geof View Post

There are just way too many TV's and pj's in the world to have everything for every display condensed into a help file. Unfortunately manufacturers are not consistent in labeling their adjustments and I've even noticed that Sony (for example) calls their items by different names depending on model. Multiply that by the hundreds of different brands and it quickly becomes a linguistic nightmare. Having the Service Manual helps and you can often find other owners and professional calibrators willing to help. Perhaps there is a market for some entrepreneur to sell concise guides for calibrating specific models but that would be a tremendous undertaking since there are so many models.

This is where there is a bit of synergy between the professional calibrators and the enthusiast calibrators. A Professional needs to be able to have breadth and depth to cover the most popular models (popular from his business perspective -- not overall sales) and then be able to figure something out on-the-fly otherwise. Once they "figure out" a particular model, then they can swap tips and tricks with other Pro calibrators to help them out. Many enthusiasts, on the other hand, spend a LOT more time with a given model, and with a fair bit of diligence, can plumb the deepest depths of what particular controls do. Sure, you often need a Pro calibrator's experience to jump start some expectations, but there are a number of models out there where Professionals have learned specific tricks/tips from the enthusiasts.

The one caveat with this are the "I tried this and it looked great so everyone copy my settings..." posts. These really just serve to elevate the noise level. Enthusiastic, yes, but not Enthusiast.

Bill

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post #16 of 233 Old 01-19-2010, 10:07 AM
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The one caveat with this are the "I tried this and it looked great so everyone copy my settings..." posts. These really just serve to elevate the noise level. Enthusiastic, yes, but not Enthusiast.

Bill

Don't ya just hate that. I've never really understood the mentality behind this catch 22. After all the object is to calibrate the display but if every display acted exactly the same way with identical settings there would be no need to calibrate! Now that's not to say that they're aren't some settings that can't be shared - such as gamma corrector, flesh tone compensation, etc, which seem to do more harm than good.

I agree with the other points you and Derek have made. Help is available - it may take some digging and time but in the end I think most of us can get there. This is an undertaking where one should have expectations of this taking a chunk of time, perhaps spread out over days, or possibly even weeks, the first time thru. Once baptized tho it becomes a lot easier the next time around.

The SW/HW combo cost me about 2 times more than what I would have paid a Pro to calibrate my set. In the end though I can tweak my setup whenever I please and it took me very little time to readjust settings to compensate for drift and/or bulb aging etc. I just couldn't rationalize paying over and over to keep my set tuned up but I have time to tinker and find it rather interesting to do.

Another option might be to hire a pro to do it and watch and learn while he does it (but I'd make sure he's comfortable with that beforehand).

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post #17 of 233 Old 01-19-2010, 11:22 AM
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To the OP: calibration would be worthwhile to you being color-blind as well as to the others in your home who are not. Improving gamma, or putting the TV's luminance into proper relationship across its operating range, is a part of the calibration process, and would definitely benefit what you yourself would see. It would make black-and-white as well as color images more natural-looking and three-dimensional.

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post #18 of 233 Old 01-19-2010, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilson-Flyer View Post

You bring up a VERY valid point. I guess I forgot all about that very significant part. How do you know what to adjust to correct this and that?

I'm of the opinion that if you have the proper understanding of the fundamentals you can probably manage with any software/meter combination and conversely if you don't then any sofware will leave you puzzled. CalMAN does come with extensive tutorial information but that's irrelevant if the one thing keeping from moving forward isn't in the help file.

However all of this is what one would call a second-order effect. The first things to consider are:
1) What are you trying to achieve (and why)?
2) Do you have the proper infrastructure to reach your goal.

You've said you have a large collection of displays so it's quite likely several/most/all will not be suitable for grayscale/white point/gamma calibration. Reasons for this include fundamental deficiencies in the panel, a specific or general lack of knowledge about using provided controls or controls that are locked. Athough all images deserve good treatment it's likely that with that many displays only a few are used for critical viewing and that would be a good place to focus your energy. Unless those displays cannot be adjusted.

So to wind up with some suggestions:
1) Select (or get) a quality display that has appropriate adjustments (or get a CMS box).
2) Learn how to calibrate that display and get appropriate tools to do so (or hire someone).
3) Use that display for critical viewing.
4) Enjoy your casual viewing displays for themselves.


Disclosure: I have Argyll, CHCFR, CalMAN (Enthusiast), an i1Pro, Chroma5, a -94B and couple other random colorimeters. I'll probably get ChromaPure.

But I only have one "television" and a 24" 16:10 LCD monitor for backup.


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post #19 of 233 Old 01-19-2010, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Geof View Post

I agree with the other points you and Derek have made. Help is available - it may take some digging and time but in the end I think most of us can get there. This is an undertaking where one should have expectations of this taking a chunk of time, perhaps spread out over days, or possibly even weeks, the first time thru. Once baptized tho it becomes a lot easier the next time around.

One can always download the CalMAN demo and flip through the workflow and the help files. The software has several "levels" of use, each one with a workflow -- except once you get to "Advanced", and then you are on your own. I am always concerned by people saying that CalMAN is too complex to use when they haven't talked about trying the basic workflow or have specific issues with specific steps. There are pretty tall guard rails in the beginner mode, so I suspect that we may have broken it down into too simple of a process (one with a lot of basic steps that seem hard just in sheer number). Anyway, one can always give it a try risk-free and move on. The help files will still be there, even if you are using them to help you with a different app.

Quote:


The SW/HW combo cost me about 2 times more than what I would have paid a Pro to calibrate my set. In the end though I can tweak my setup whenever I please and it took me very little time to readjust settings to compensate for drift and/or bulb aging etc. I just couldn't rationalize paying over and over to keep my set tuned up but I have time to tinker and find it rather interesting to do.

People who are willing to invest the time and money and time (did I mention time?) calibrating their set generally aren't going to hire a professional calibrator. For many of us, me included, this was a hobby first and foremost, and part of the interest was learning something new. There is also the economic case to justify the purchases ("Well, if I'd have had someone come in and do it, it would have cost $XX, so, see, I'm saving money..."), but I suspect most of us didn't really "run the numbers" before we had already headed down one path or the other.

Quote:


Another option might be to hire a pro to do it and watch and learn while he does it (but I'd make sure he's comfortable with that beforehand).

This is a part of the service aspect. The ones that can educate their clients successfully are the ones that are ultimately the most successful. Even if the Pro loses a client to the DIY market, he or she then has someone with a stack of business cards who is now also out there educating their friends about how cool it is. Really, the more people get educated about the concept, the better it is for anyone in the industry over the long-term.

Did I mention "evangelist"?

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post #20 of 233 Old 01-19-2010, 03:15 PM - Thread Starter
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To the OP: calibration would be worthwhile to you being color-blind as well as to the others in your home who are not. Improving gamma, or putting the TV's luminance into proper relationship across its operating range, is a part of the calibration process, and would definitely benefit what you yourself would see. It would make black-and-white as well as color images more natural-looking and three-dimensional.

I don't see in black & white. A common misconception. Irony being, I probably see color better than you do. I just can't readily identify each color with a name. It's hard to explain to someone that's not color-blind.

It's actually kinda funny that I can't stand to watch a NON-calibrated display because I DO see color so well. These displays at Best Buy that drive you guys crazy? They almost BLIND me when I look at them.

There's a great example of color-blindness from WWII. Color-blind men couldn't be drafted for fear that they would shoot their own men. What they discovered though, was that in an airplane, color-blind men could pick out camaflouge in a woods at 20k feet. Pretty nifty, huh? Very true too. I fly too (I have an FAA waiver for my private ticket for color-blindness) and I can pick out camaflouge like a sore thumb.

Maybe all of this is why I Want my displays calibrated. I can see the difference; probably better than my wife. I just wasn't sure I could DO it but it sounds like with the tools available today, I should be able to. I can run electronics and am a computer professional. No reason my color-blindness should matter anymore. Kinda my point too.

HDTV in my home since 1999.
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post #21 of 233 Old 01-19-2010, 03:20 PM - Thread Starter
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One can always download the CalMAN demo and flip through the workflow and the help files. The software has several "levels" of use, each one with a workflow -- except once you get to "Advanced", and then you are on your own. I am always concerned by people saying that CalMAN is too complex to use when they haven't talked about trying the basic workflow or have specific issues with specific steps. There are pretty tall guard rails in the beginner mode, so I suspect that we may have broken it down into too simple of a process (one with a lot of basic steps that seem hard just in sheer number). Anyway, one can always give it a try risk-free and move on. The help files will still be there, even if you are using them to help you with a different app.


A great point was made earlier in the thread that bears (no pun intended! LOL) repeating here...

I think my greater concern wasn't with getting to an 80% gray scale on my DVD or in the gray scale calibration but what do I actually adjust on my display to correct it. If it's RGB values, fine. If I move to 70% and change the RGB values again, why didn't that screw up the ones I just adjusted? The display doesn't know I changed the picture being displayed! That's the sorts of things I'm having a hard time with.

I guess I just need to suck it up and buy CalMan and be done with it.

As someone else said above, I'll probably be the one that ends up with 5 colorimeters and CalMan and ChromaPure too. Why? I know me.

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post #22 of 233 Old 01-19-2010, 03:24 PM - Thread Starter
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This is a part of the service aspect. The ones that can educate their clients successfully are the ones that are ultimately the most successful. Even if the Pro loses a client to the DIY market, he or she then has someone with a stack of business cards who is now also out there educating their friends about how cool it is. Really, the more people get educated about the concept, the better it is for anyone in the industry over the long-term.

Did I mention "evangelist"?

Amen. Craig Rounds is one of the best IMHO and he told me this himself several years ago. He spent a great deal of the 6 hours he spent here on my Mits explaining it all to me knowing full well that most of it was going right over my head. BUT... He knew I was an enthusiast and he knew I Was in it for the hobby AND he knew I appreciated his knowledge and what he was doing.

Several friends have used him since he calibrated my Mits. Why? Never underestimate the value of superior customer service.

HDTV in my home since 1999.
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post #23 of 233 Old 01-19-2010, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Wilson-Flyer View Post

A great point was made earlier in the thread that bears (no pun intended! LOL) repeating here...

I think my greater concern wasn't with getting to an 80% gray scale on my DVD or in the gray scale calibration but what do I actually adjust on my display to correct it. If it's RGB values, fine. If I move to 70% and change the RGB values again, why didn't that screw up the ones I just adjusted? The display doesn't know I changed the picture being displayed! That's the sorts of things I'm having a hard time with.

I guess I just need to suck it up and buy CalMan and be done with it.

As someone else said above, I'll probably be the one that ends up with 5 colorimeters and CalMan and ChromaPure too. Why? I know me.

Most sets have gains and cuts.
Some only have gains.
The adjustments are sort of like raising or lowering the center pole in the middle of a tent, at a certain point you'll get the most adjustment and as you go further away the changes will be smaller.

With gains and cuts, you can get will still have dips and humps, but you can get it pretty close.

Calibration is all about the art of compromise.

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SpectraCal
CalMAN Lead Developer
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post #24 of 233 Old 01-19-2010, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Wilson-Flyer View Post

I don't see in black & white. A common misconception. Irony being, I probably see color better than you do. I just can't readily identify each color with a name. It's hard to explain to someone that's not color-blind.

It's actually kinda funny that I can't stand to watch a NON-calibrated display because I DO see color so well. These displays at Best Buy that drive you guys crazy? They almost BLIND me when I look at them.

There's a great example of color-blindness from WWII. Color-blind men couldn't be drafted for fear that they would shoot their own men. What they discovered though, was that in an airplane, color-blind men could pick out camaflouge in a woods at 20k feet. Pretty nifty, huh? Very true too. I fly too (I have an FAA waiver for my private ticket for color-blindness) and I can pick out camaflouge like a sore thumb.

Maybe all of this is why I Want my displays calibrated. I can see the difference; probably better than my wife. I just wasn't sure I could DO it but it sounds like with the tools available today, I should be able to. I can run electronics and am a computer professional. No reason my color-blindness should matter anymore. Kinda my point too.

Sorry, guy. I didn't mean to say that you couldn't see color at all, and I apologize if it came out that way. All I meant was that gamma correction should result in a better image regardless of how one perceives or sees color.

...Royce...

"I never drink...wine."
Bela Lugosi, DRACULA, 1931
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post #25 of 233 Old 01-19-2010, 06:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Sorry, guy. I didn't mean to say that you couldn't see color at all, and I apologize if it came out that way. All I meant was that gamma correction should result in a better image regardless of how one perceives or sees color.

No problem big guy. I can see now that I probably mis-interpreted your post but I certainly didn't take it offensively anyway.

Just decided to take the opportunity to explain color-blindness to folks that don't understand it. Wasn't necessarily even talking to you. Thanks for taking it in the spirit it was intended and thank you for your sound advice.

-bob

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Just because I'm a technofreak, I just purchased a DTP-94/Chromapure bundle from Tom to go along with the Enhanced Spyder3/Calman bundle I purchased from Derek and crew. So I have (or will have by this weekend) both Calman and a consumer level meter and Chromapure and another consumer level meter.

I've calibrated two Panasonic Plasma G10s and a friend's plasma with the Spyder3/Calman setup. My intent is to go in and recalibrate both of my Panasonic G10 plasmas this weekend with the DTP-94/Chromapure combo.

Let me make one thing clear - I didn't purchase this because CalMan is deficient. For a novice, it is a little intimidating at first, there are places where it was a little ambiguous (for a novice,) but every time I emailed for support I received a reply from SpectraCal, usually within a day, sometimes within an hour. And I also received the kind of support (thanks Chris!!) in which I told them what I was trying to do and they sent me a customized template with exactly the charts and measurements I wanted, on one page. As someone who is used to technical "stuff" (Ph.D. scientist, albeit I've had the lobotomy and I'm now the chief technical officer for a company - a manager) I can tell that CalMan is like Photoshop: a TON of stuff in there, and the more you use it and learn it, the more you'll appreciate everything it can do, including things I have no need for now and may never need.

OTOH, Chromapure looks to be very streamlined, elegant, and perhaps just the ticket for a novice (and perhaps the more advanced user.) I'll let people know my experience of calibrating with it and the DTP-94 vs. CalMan and the enhanced Spyder3 if people are interested here.

I suspect the two packages are simply quite different, and that neither is "bad." Just a couple of very different designs with different approaches and perhaps different capabilities.
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don't forget you can still use the DTP-94 with calman as well

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post #28 of 233 Old 01-20-2010, 02:47 PM
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don't forget you can still use the DTP-94 with calman as well

Actually, I can't - the version I purchased is only useable with the Spyder3. I'd love to try it with the DTP-94 to do a very direct comparison. (Edit - the same is true for the DTP-94/Chromapure bundle - it will only work with the bundled meter.)
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post #29 of 233 Old 01-20-2010, 02:49 PM
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Actually, I can't - the version I purchased is only useable with the Spyder3. I'd love to try it with the DTP-94 to do a very direct comparison.

Correction: As of v3.6 you can use the CalMAN license that came with the S3 for most of the other colorimeter as well.

Derek

CTO / Founder - SpectraCal Inc.
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post #30 of 233 Old 01-20-2010, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jefflackey View Post

Just because I'm a technofreak, I just purchased a DTP-94/Chromapure bundle from Tom to go along with the Enhanced Spyder3/Calman bundle I purchased from Derek and crew. So I have (or will have by this weekend) both Calman and a consumer level meter and Chromapure and another consumer level meter.

I've calibrated two Panasonic Plasma G10s and a friend's plasma with the Spyder3/Calman setup. My intent is to go in and recalibrate both of my Panasonic G10 plasmas this weekend with the DTP-94/Chromapure combo.

Let me make one thing clear - I didn't purchase this because CalMan is deficient. For a novice, it is a little intimidating at first, there are places where it was a little ambiguous (for a novice,) but every time I emailed for support I received a reply from SpectraCal, usually within a day, sometimes within an hour. And I also received the kind of support (thanks Chris!!) in which I told them what I was trying to do and they sent me a customized template with exactly the charts and measurements I wanted, on one page. As someone who is used to technical "stuff" (Ph.D. scientist, albeit I've had the lobotomy and I'm now the chief technical officer for a company - a manager) I can tell that CalMan is like Photoshop: a TON of stuff in there, and the more you use it and learn it, the more you'll appreciate everything it can do, including things I have no need for now and may never need.

OTOH, Chromapure looks to be very streamlined, elegant, and perhaps just the ticket for a novice (and perhaps the more advanced user.) I'll let people know my experience of calibrating with it and the DTP-94 vs. CalMan and the enhanced Spyder3 if people are interested here.

I suspect the two packages are simply quite different, and that neither is "bad." Just a couple of very different designs with different approaches and perhaps different capabilities.

Absolutely interested in reading your thoughts between the two. I can attest to the fact that ChromaPure is easy to learn and elegant in design. I really like it and found it far more straightforward than ColorHCFR. Tom is pretty responsive as well and I don't have any concerns about after sales support. I can't speak to the differences between using the two programs (haven't used Calman) but there is a notable difference in licensing terms between the two and for me I found the Calman terms unacceptable. Not trying to be negative here but I think potential buyers should read those terms and decide what's best for their on situation.

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