Samsung Plasma Service Menu Navigation - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 28 Old 01-23-2010, 10:22 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Aeonus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 499
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Does anyone know how to adjust the settings in the service menu for a particular mode, such as Movie?

I want to check the calibrations done in the service menu for Movie Mode and N/D, but can't find a way to access the settings for a particular mode.

The guy who did my calibration set it up so that the "defaults" for Movie Mode and others are set differently than factory.

Any help appreciated!
Aeonus is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 28 Old 01-23-2010, 11:34 AM
AVS Special Member
 
PlasmaPZ80U's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,171
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 79 Post(s)
Liked: 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeonus View Post

Does anyone know how to adjust the settings in the service menu for a particular mode, such as Movie?

I want to check the calibrations done in the service menu for Movie Mode and N/D, but can't find a way to access the settings for a particular mode.

The guy who did my calibration set it up so that the "defaults" for Movie Mode and others are set differently than factory.

Any help appreciated!

For Movie SM calibrations, the "WB Movie" menu under "Advanced" is the item you are searching for. Once you highlight "Advanced" using the up/down arrow keys (NOT the left/right arrow keys that act as enter keys), press 0000 slowly and firmly on the remote. Then, among the various selections choose "WB Movie." It should be "ON", with "Movie" and "Warm2" selected (unless Warm1 was used instead). The 'Movie' Brightness, Contrast, Color, Tint, Sharpness, etc. items control the default user values for these parameters of Movie mode when you reset Movie mode in the user menu.

Keep in mind when changes are made to a HDMI input, they get copied over to Component and the other inputs. Therefore, if you TV has a separate Component calibration, making changes in HDMI will cause you to lose that separate calibration.

For info on the night and day modes, I would need to know what model and model year you have.
PlasmaPZ80U is online now  
post #3 of 28 Old 01-23-2010, 12:38 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Aeonus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 499
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

For Movie SM calibrations, the "WB Movie" menu under "Advanced" is the item you are searching for. Once you highlight "Advanced" using the up/down arrow keys (NOT the left/right arrow keys that act as enter keys), press 0000 slowly and firmly on the remote. Then, among the various selections choose "WB Movie." It should be "ON", with "Movie" and "Warm2" selected (unless Warm1 was used instead). The 'Movie' Brightness, Contrast, Color, Tint, Sharpness, etc. items control the default user values for these parameters of Movie mode when you reset Movie mode in the user menu.

Keep in mind when changes are made to a HDMI input, they get copied over to Component and the other inputs. Therefore, if you TV has a separate Component calibration, making changes in HDMI will cause you to lose that separate calibration.

For info on the night and day modes, I would need to know what model and model year you have.

Cheers! That is EXACTLY the info I was looking for!

In particular I was checking the gamma that he had set. He has it set to M1, and I'd like to roll it back to the default of .93.

My model is a PN50B650 in regards to the Night and Day adjustment.
Aeonus is offline  
post #4 of 28 Old 01-23-2010, 03:04 PM
AVS Special Member
 
PlasmaPZ80U's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,171
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 79 Post(s)
Liked: 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeonus View Post

Cheers! That is EXACTLY the info I was looking for!

In particular I was checking the gamma that he had set. He has it set to M1, and I'd like to roll it back to the default of .93.

My model is a PN50B650 in regards to the Night and Day adjustment.

On my LN32B650, the default gamma was "OFF." Based on tests with my meter, OFF was equivalent to a user gamma of 0 and the 0.9X selections lowered average gamma while the MX selections increased average gamma (where X is just a placeholder). It's important to note user gamma will always say "0" irrespective of the "Movie Gamma" setting in the SM, eventhough the change will be applied in the user menu, Movie mode.

In the SM, all you can do for the N/D modes is in the "Expert" section, which is above the "Advanced" area and doesn't require a passcode to access. Once you enter the "Expert" section, you can set "N/D Adjust" to "OFF", "ON", or "FIX." "FIX" will lock out the settings to avoid accidental changes and "ON" will let you tweak the settings in the user menu as much as you want. "OFF" just disables the modes so that they don't appear as selections in the user menu. The second item is "Source" and can be set to "Current" for input-specific settings or "All" to apply the same settings for each mode to all inputs. Night and Day modes will still be independent of each other, of course.
Since you have an '09 set, the Night and Day modes can only be adjusted in the user menu and not the service menu. The only thing you can do in the SM for these modes is what I've just covered above.
PlasmaPZ80U is online now  
post #5 of 28 Old 01-23-2010, 04:19 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Aeonus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 499
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

On my LN32B650, the default gamma was "OFF." Based on tests with my meter, OFF was equivalent to a user gamma of 0 and the 0.9X selections lowered average gamma while the MX selections increased average gamma (where X is just a placeholder). It's important to note user gamma will always say "0" irrespective of the "Movie Gamma" setting in the SM, eventhough the change will be applied in the user menu, Movie mode.

In the SM, all you can do for the N/D modes is in the "Expert" section, which is above the "Advanced" area and doesn't require a passcode to access. Once you enter the "Expert" section, you can set "N/D Adjust" to "OFF", "ON", or "FIX." "FIX" will lock out the settings to avoid accidental changes and "ON" will let you tweak the settings in the user menu as much as you want. "OFF" just disables the modes so that they don't appear as selections in the user menu. The second item is "Source" and can be set to "Current" for input-specific settings or "All" to apply the same settings for each mode to all inputs. Night and Day modes will still be independent of each other, of course.
Since you have an '09 set, the Night and Day modes can only be adjusted in the user menu and not the service menu. The only thing you can do in the SM for these modes is what I've just covered above.

The default setting for gamma outside of the individual W/D Movie Mode settings is .93, I know that much.

There are two places to set the gamma of your screen. One, in the W/D that you mentioned, and the other is in the menu somewhere else.

I would assume that the default for Movie Mode, gamma wise, is the same as it is outside the individual settings area. Any light to shine on this?

I don't know if there is an off setting, didn't look.
Aeonus is offline  
post #6 of 28 Old 01-23-2010, 06:37 PM
AVS Special Member
 
PlasmaPZ80U's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,171
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 79 Post(s)
Liked: 197
PlasmaPZ80U is online now  
post #7 of 28 Old 01-23-2010, 08:11 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Aeonus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 499
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

There are three gamma settings on my TV.

See this post...

The two I am talking about are these two (taken from your post):

Quote:


1. Gamma in the Sub Option menu- untouched and at 0.98

2. Movie Gamma in the WB Movie menu- set from OFF to M1

The first one on a B650 plasma is at 0.93 default, of that I am sure.

The second one I honestly don't know. I would think it would be 0.93, but then again, I didn't calibrate this thing myself so I can't be sure.

I'll need to ask in the B650 owners thread to see if anyone is willing to check. I'd be curious to know.

Thanks for your help.
Aeonus is offline  
post #8 of 28 Old 01-23-2010, 09:02 PM
Senior Member
 
kanpol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 374
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Aeonus I have the b450 some i'm not sure if this helps but on my tv its default to 0 or off cant remember which but I know its not .93 or .98 maybe because it a b450 it might be different altogether, hopr that helps. My n/d is in expert also with the exact same options. When I set cal-night and movie with the exact same user settings cal-night seems a lot more brighter. i got no problem going into the service menu to check on default settings if you think it will help you
kanpol is offline  
post #9 of 28 Old 01-23-2010, 11:13 PM
AVS Special Member
 
arfster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,919
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Most of the movie mode settings override duplicated settings found elsewhere (eg gain/offset). I'd guess suboption/gamma falls into the camp, will have to check.
arfster is offline  
post #10 of 28 Old 01-24-2010, 01:51 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Doug Blackburn's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: San Francisco - East Bay area
Posts: 3,453
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked: 226
If your calibrator knew what he was doing, M1 is probably the right gamma setting for the service menu. The Samsung panels look best when gamma measures 2.25 +/- a little (unfortunately they don't have the same gamma for each measured step so you have to extrapolate which setting is best - using the average gamma for all steps is not necessarily the best guide). M1 corresponds to "-1" = Minus 1 = M1, and for many Samsung plasmas, -1 is the best gamma setting - there is some variation but they are ally usually in the -2 to 0 range, unless the TV is really whacked out with poor settings. And since you can set the User Menu to any of 7 gamma settings, why are you worried about what gamma is set to in the service menu? Both the service menu and the user menu gamma settings do exactly the same thing. There's really no reason to change the service menu setting. In fact, all the calibration settings in the User Menu do the same things as the service menu settings, save Expert mode which disables User Menu settings, and Night/Day modes which aren't particularly more useful than other "normal" service menu settings.

There does not appear to be any 1 specific service menu default gamma settings. I have seen several different service menu gamma settings over the last 2 years so you can't say unequivocally that .93 is the default setting. And even if it WAS the default setting, that doesn't mean it is the BEST setting. Sometimes defaults are good, many times they are not.

"Movies is magic..." Van Dyke Parks
THX Certified Professional Video Calibration
ISF -- HAA -- www.dBtheatrical.com
Widescreen Review -- Home Theater & Sound
Doug Blackburn is offline  
post #11 of 28 Old 01-24-2010, 06:35 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Aeonus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 499
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
I appreciate the advice, but the actual reason I'm doing this is a little more involved.

This is going to sound very off the wall and weird (or maybe it won't, who knows). It's also difficult to explain, so excuse me in advance if this is a bit jumbled.

My calibrator sucked and was a piss poor expense on my behalf. The only thing he really worked on was the gray scale (white balance). He actually changed SOMETHING in the service menu (I couldn't follow his movements in the Service Menu at the time) to change the default gamma from 0 to -1 because that is what I had it set to in the user menu at the time.

When I first got my set back in May the black levels were fantastic to my eyes. On movies with the black bars, they were dark enough that they didn't "stand out" when viewing the actual movie. They didn't blend with the bezel of course, but were dark enough to not be completely noticeable.

Added a little lighting behind the television (NOT D65 certified BIAS, but it was cheap and did the trick for now until I invest) and the blacks blended in to the bezel to my eyes. Perfectly happy and thoroughly impressed with the results.

I'm now sitting at around 1500 hours on my set and noticed over the past few months the blacks on the all black portions of the screen were sticking out to me and I'd constantly be looking to them thinking "have my blacks always been this poor?"

I knew something was wrong when I turned on the same lighting behind my television and it did nothing to improve the situation. I also noticed that the set was doing a piss poor job on the DVE bluray with the basic brightness setting test. I believe the explanation is it was coming out of the black too quickly? I'm not terribly familiar with the terms.

Anyways, fast forward to yesterday and today, and I went into the Service Menu and adjusted the value in the W/D Movie from M1 to 0.93. Here's the kicker: My black levels are back to what I originally described them as.

I've had.....other little glitches with this Samsung previously. Ones that can't be explained. Besides the Cinema Smooth bug, I can't use the Night and Day CAL modes because they definitely make the picture lighter for no reason when switching sources. Unadjustably lighter.

Lastly, to mention, when I am referencing black levels, I'm saying that you could have the brightness at "0" on a black test slide. Meaning, the lowest blacks showing possible on the set with no way to lower them further. There is a noticeable difference between what I was able to achieve prior to me adjusting the gamma and afterwards.

I'm sorry for the long read, but this is a frustrating experience for me and hard to put into words. I mean, I can't use a warranty for this, they'd look at me like I'm insane. I KNOW something is off, but there is no way to prove it.
Aeonus is offline  
post #12 of 28 Old 01-24-2010, 07:30 PM
AVS Special Member
 
PlasmaPZ80U's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,171
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 79 Post(s)
Liked: 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeonus View Post

I appreciate the advice, but the actual reason I'm doing this is a little more involved.

This is going to sound very off the wall and weird (or maybe it won't, who knows). It's also difficult to explain, so excuse me in advance if this is a bit jumbled.

My calibrator sucked and was a piss poor expense on my behalf. The only thing he really worked on was the gray scale (white balance). He actually changed SOMETHING in the service menu (I couldn't follow his movements in the Service Menu at the time) to change the default gamma from 0 to -1 because that is what I had it set to in the user menu at the time.

When I first got my set back in May the black levels were fantastic to my eyes. On movies with the black bars, they were dark enough that they didn't "stand out" when viewing the actual movie. They didn't blend with the bezel of course, but were dark enough to not be completely noticeable.

Added a little lighting behind the television (NOT D65 certified BIAS, but it was cheap and did the trick for now until I invest) and the blacks blended in to the bezel to my eyes. Perfectly happy and thoroughly impressed with the results.

I'm now sitting at around 1500 hours on my set and noticed over the past few months the blacks on the all black portions of the screen were sticking out to me and I'd constantly be looking to them thinking "have my blacks always been this poor?"

I knew something was wrong when I turned on the same lighting behind my television and it did nothing to improve the situation. I also noticed that the set was doing a piss poor job on the DVE bluray with the basic brightness setting test. I believe the explanation is it was coming out of the black too quickly? I'm not terribly familiar with the terms.

Anyways, fast forward to yesterday and today, and I went into the Service Menu and adjusted the value in the W/D Movie from M1 to 0.93. Here's the kicker: My black levels are back to what I originally described them as.

I've had.....other little glitches with this Samsung previously. Ones that can't be explained. Besides the Cinema Smooth bug, I can't use the Night and Day CAL modes because they definitely make the picture lighter for no reason when switching sources. Unadjustably lighter.

Lastly, to mention, when I am referencing black levels, I'm saying that you could have the brightness at "0" on a black test slide. Meaning, the lowest blacks showing possible on the set with no way to lower them further. There is a noticeable difference between what I was able to achieve prior to me adjusting the gamma and afterwards.

I'm sorry for the long read, but this is a frustrating experience for me and hard to put into words. I mean, I can't use a warranty for this, they'd look at me like I'm insane. I KNOW something is off, but there is no way to prove it.

.93 is much lower gamma than M1. On my TV, .93 would be well below 2.22 while M1 is about 2.36. So, what you're saying doesn't really make any sense unless there was some glitch in your firmware/software. Also, gamma doesn't affect black levels but it does affect near blacks. Black bars in a movie are completely black (digital 16) and not above black so they wouldn't be any different before or after. If it worked for you great, but it doesn't make any sense at all based on my observations of the B650 LCD.
PlasmaPZ80U is online now  
post #13 of 28 Old 01-24-2010, 09:23 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Aeonus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 499
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

.93 is much lower gamma than M1. On my TV, .93 would be well below 2.22 while M1 is about 2.36. So, what you're saying doesn't really make any sense unless there was some glitch in your firmware/software. Also, gamma doesn't affect black levels but it does affect near blacks. Black bars in a movie are completely black (digital 16) and not above black so they wouldn't be any different before or after. If it worked for you great, but it doesn't make any sense at all based on my observations of the B650 LCD.

Indeed, it doesn't make any sense. I think it may be a bug or something.

.93 makes the screen actually LIGHTER compared to M1. I had to lower the brightness on my set from 52 to 48 afterwards.

In addition, my sound is screwed up on this set with the RCA audio out. The sound outputs to my speakers regardless of setting.
Aeonus is offline  
post #14 of 28 Old 01-25-2010, 01:20 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Doug Blackburn's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: San Francisco - East Bay area
Posts: 3,453
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked: 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeonus View Post

I appreciate the advice, but the actual reason I'm doing this is a little more involved.

This is going to sound very off the wall and weird (or maybe it won't, who knows). It's also difficult to explain, so excuse me in advance if this is a bit jumbled.

My calibrator sucked and was a piss poor expense on my behalf. The only thing he really worked on was the gray scale (white balance). He actually changed SOMETHING in the service menu (I couldn't follow his movements in the Service Menu at the time) to change the default gamma from 0 to -1 because that is what I had it set to in the user menu at the time.

When I first got my set back in May the black levels were fantastic to my eyes. On movies with the black bars, they were dark enough that they didn't "stand out" when viewing the actual movie. They didn't blend with the bezel of course, but were dark enough to not be completely noticeable.

Added a little lighting behind the television (NOT D65 certified BIAS, but it was cheap and did the trick for now until I invest) and the blacks blended in to the bezel to my eyes. Perfectly happy and thoroughly impressed with the results.

I'm now sitting at around 1500 hours on my set and noticed over the past few months the blacks on the all black portions of the screen were sticking out to me and I'd constantly be looking to them thinking "have my blacks always been this poor?"

I knew something was wrong when I turned on the same lighting behind my television and it did nothing to improve the situation. I also noticed that the set was doing a piss poor job on the DVE bluray with the basic brightness setting test. I believe the explanation is it was coming out of the black too quickly? I'm not terribly familiar with the terms.

Anyways, fast forward to yesterday and today, and I went into the Service Menu and adjusted the value in the W/D Movie from M1 to 0.93. Here's the kicker: My black levels are back to what I originally described them as.

I've had.....other little glitches with this Samsung previously. Ones that can't be explained. Besides the Cinema Smooth bug, I can't use the Night and Day CAL modes because they definitely make the picture lighter for no reason when switching sources. Unadjustably lighter.

Lastly, to mention, when I am referencing black levels, I'm saying that you could have the brightness at "0" on a black test slide. Meaning, the lowest blacks showing possible on the set with no way to lower them further. There is a noticeable difference between what I was able to achieve prior to me adjusting the gamma and afterwards.

I'm sorry for the long read, but this is a frustrating experience for me and hard to put into words. I mean, I can't use a warranty for this, they'd look at me like I'm insane. I KNOW something is off, but there is no way to prove it.

That's an interesting story, but seems like you are barking up the wrong tree. As I said in the original post, you could do exactly the same change in the User Menu without touching the Service Menu - the User Menu gamma control is EXACTLY THE SAME as the service menu gamma control.

Next... Gamma (and gamma controls) do not affect the black point or the white point. But they do affect everything BETWEEN black and white. The Brightness control sets your black level - and you need a PLUGE pattern from a test/setup disc to use the Brightness control properly. The Contrast (or Picture) control sets your peak white level. Gamma controls the shape of the curve connecting black and white but it does NOT affect black or white (when the control is working properly - most seem to work as expected - including Samsung Gamma controls). The Gamma control doesn't affect how black the black bars are - those are at "black" and are controlled by the Brightness control only.

I think you need to re-think what's going on and if you don't have a test/setup disc, get one so you can be sure you have Brightness setup correctly.

The other issue... entering and exiting the Samsung service menu resets every User Menu setting. You have to manually go through every User Menu setting that was changed from the factory default and put it back to the setting it was calibrated for. If you didn't know that, your changing the gamma setting probably had NOTHING to do with what you saw happen - what you saw happen, happened because you reset something in te User Menu and didn't put it back where it was. Which means... you could have probably found that setting and changed it without ever entering the Service Menu.

Personally, I think it was a mistake to assume you had a problem that needed fixing and could only be fixed in the servic menu. If you had a problem - all the controls you needed to correct it are right there in your User Menu... SOMEWHERE. You just need to have a test/setup disc so you have reference patterns so you know where the user menu controls need to be set. Though you can't really set Contrast for a dark room with a test setup disc - you need to know how many fL you get from 100% white and the only way to know that is with a meter. With a lot of trial and error you can find a Contrast setting that looks bright but doesn't cause eye fatigue if you view in a dark or bias-lit environment. You may be fine with whatever Contrast setting you have now - if you follow the instructions on most test/setup discs, they will lead you to the highest possible Contrast setting that doesn't upset color tracking/color temp - which isn't necessarily what you want for a dark room.

"Movies is magic..." Van Dyke Parks
THX Certified Professional Video Calibration
ISF -- HAA -- www.dBtheatrical.com
Widescreen Review -- Home Theater & Sound
Doug Blackburn is offline  
post #15 of 28 Old 01-25-2010, 01:26 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Doug Blackburn's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: San Francisco - East Bay area
Posts: 3,453
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked: 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeonus View Post

Indeed, it doesn't make any sense. I think it may be a bug or something.

.93 makes the screen actually LIGHTER compared to M1. I had to lower the brightness on my set from 52 to 48 afterwards.

In addition, my sound is screwed up on this set with the RCA audio out. The sound outputs to my speakers regardless of setting.

You are now viewing images with a gamma that's much too low, numerically, which makes everything between black and white brighter... which is not necessarily better... in fact, a low gamma makes images look "flat" like a picture in a magazine. When you get gamma right, images will have some "depth" to them -- it's not 3-D, but it's better than the flat milky look you get from a gamma that's too low.

Once again, that .93 setting in the service menu is the same thing as one of the Gamma settings in the User Menu (probably +2 or +3) and that's much too low of a gamma. So you have this low gamma and you are turnning Brightness down to try to compensate for it... and that's wrong also. You're getting all balled up because you aren't understanding what the controls do and how they interact. (and possibly don't know that entering/exiting the service menu resets every User Menu setting)

"Movies is magic..." Van Dyke Parks
THX Certified Professional Video Calibration
ISF -- HAA -- www.dBtheatrical.com
Widescreen Review -- Home Theater & Sound
Doug Blackburn is offline  
post #16 of 28 Old 01-25-2010, 07:13 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Aeonus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 499
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
No, it's definitely not a user menu thing. I've learned what all of them do and have tweaked them constantly with the DVE disc.

I know it's easy to SAY that I'm simply missing something, but I assure you, I'm not. At least not in the user menu section.

I can have the brightness at 0 and the gamma at -3 with all the crap settings turned off (Dynamic Contrast, Black Level, Edge Enhancement, etc.) and the screen will still have had more of a glow in a darkened room than it is now on an all black slide.

Something happened when I changed that gamma setting in the W/B Movie Mode. You know how the Cinema Smooth bug sticks around until the option is turned off? It's kind of like that. My set is now back to what it originally was.

It wasn't because of the user menu reset, either. I've been in the service menu a couple of times since then WITHOUT changing anything to try and get used to the layout, and also to see where my calibrator had changed settings.

I will be getting this set professionally calibrated in the future now that it is back to normal. If it helps support my story, the calibrator who did my set was from Best Buy.
Aeonus is offline  
post #17 of 28 Old 01-25-2010, 11:19 AM
AVS Special Member
 
PlasmaPZ80U's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,171
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 79 Post(s)
Liked: 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeonus View Post

If it helps support my story, the calibrator who did my set was from Best Buy.

It does, but what Doug said about gamma is very true. 0.93 produces a gamma that is too bright/too light and lowering brightness will not fix it, only choosing a higher gamma setting such as OFF or M1 will. OFF should be equivalent to a user gamma of 0 and this was closest to 2.22 on my set. The Cinema Smooth bug could have something to do with your issue as could rising black levels (common on Panasonic Plasmas but also documented on some Samsung Plasmas, check the PDP forum for more info).
PlasmaPZ80U is online now  
post #18 of 28 Old 01-25-2010, 11:25 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Aeonus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 499
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

It does, but what Doug said about gamma is very true. 0.93 produces a gamma that is too bright/too light and lowering brightness will not fix it, only choosing a higher gamma setting such as OFF or M1 will. OFF should be equivalent to a user gamma of 0 and this was closest to 2.22 on my set. The Cinema Smooth bug could have something to do with your issue as could rising black levels (common on Panasonic Plasmas but also documented on some Samsung Plasmas, check the PDP forum for more info).

Perhaps I will try setting it to OFF and see what the result is.

I find it interesting that .93 would the the default in the sub-options and not the W/D Movie Mode. (.93 is definitely the default for the set in the sub-options, as confirmed by other owners of the set).

Picture this: A decent LCD on a black screen in a dark room. My Samsung was close to emitting that kind of glow before I adjusted it.
Aeonus is offline  
post #19 of 28 Old 01-25-2010, 11:55 AM
AVS Special Member
 
PlasmaPZ80U's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,171
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 79 Post(s)
Liked: 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeonus View Post

Perhaps I will try setting it to OFF and see what the result is.

I find it interesting that .93 would the the default in the sub-options and not the W/D Movie Mode. (.93 is definitely the default for the set in the sub-options, as confirmed by other owners of the set).

Picture this: A decent LCD on a black screen in a dark room. My Samsung was close to emitting that kind of glow before I adjusted it.

I was referring to the 'Movie Gamma' setting in W/B Movie. The Sub Option gamma setting is 0.98 on my TV by default and I believe that 0.93 is the default for your TV. The default for Movie Gamma should be OFF. I believe the Sub Option setting is specifically set in the factory to keep the gamma for all pic modes within a target range for consistency. You should not need to change that setting at all.
PlasmaPZ80U is online now  
post #20 of 28 Old 01-25-2010, 12:04 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Aeonus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 499
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

I was referring to the 'Movie Gamma' setting in W/B Movie. The Sub Option gamma setting is 0.98 on my TV by default and I believe that 0.93 is the default for your TV. The default for Movie Gamma should be OFF. I believe the Sub Option setting is specifically set in the factory to keep the gamma for all pic modes within a target range for consistency. You should not need to change that setting at all.

I will try setting this to OFF tonight and see what the result is. All I know is I refuse to use M1 until a calibrator has taken the time to measure my set.

I might invest in an Eyeone or something in the future to measure the black levels. It's hard to describe things and be taken seriously when all you have is your own two eyes to report with.
Aeonus is offline  
post #21 of 28 Old 01-25-2010, 12:51 PM
AVS Special Member
 
PlasmaPZ80U's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,171
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 79 Post(s)
Liked: 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeonus View Post

I will try setting this to OFF tonight and see what the result is. All I know is I refuse to use M1 until a calibrator has taken the time to measure my set.

I might invest in an Eyeone or something in the future to measure the black levels. It's hard to describe things and be taken seriously when all you have is your own two eyes to report with.

Yeah, having a meter takes away subjectivity and makes it easier to explain a problem like yours. You no longer need to rely on your eyes when adjusting settings/options.
PlasmaPZ80U is online now  
post #22 of 28 Old 01-25-2010, 03:42 PM
AVS Special Member
 
PlasmaPZ80U's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,171
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 79 Post(s)
Liked: 197
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1211082

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1216428

I skimmed through these two threads several days ago and I just noticed you started the first one, lol. The second seems to show a temporary rise in blacks. Not sure what to make of it since both instances seem isolated, but I think I better understand the issue you were referring to in the above posts after carefully re-reading both of these today.
PlasmaPZ80U is online now  
post #23 of 28 Old 01-25-2010, 04:31 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Aeonus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 499
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1211082

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1216428

I skimmed through these two threads several days ago and I just noticed you started the first one, lol. The second seems to show a temporary rise in blacks. Not sure what to make of it since both instances seem isolated, but I think I better understand the issue you were referring to in the above posts after carefully re-reading both of these today.

The second thread did a better job at explaining it then I could. Pictures are worth a 1000 words.

Whatever it was, it's back to normal and I am happy....for now.
Aeonus is offline  
post #24 of 28 Old 01-26-2010, 10:18 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Doug Blackburn's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: San Francisco - East Bay area
Posts: 3,453
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked: 226
Well, if something was upset by the BB calibrator and you paid for that calibration, complaining that the calibration was worse than the factory settings to the point that you are going to hire an independent calibrator to do the job right should be enough to get you a refund from BB. If enough people ask for refunds, maybe some day BB will stop being a source of negative publicity for calibration.

"Movies is magic..." Van Dyke Parks
THX Certified Professional Video Calibration
ISF -- HAA -- www.dBtheatrical.com
Widescreen Review -- Home Theater & Sound
Doug Blackburn is offline  
post #25 of 28 Old 01-26-2010, 10:30 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Doug Blackburn's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: San Francisco - East Bay area
Posts: 3,453
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked: 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeonus View Post

I might invest in an Eyeone or something in the future to measure the black levels. It's hard to describe things and be taken seriously when all you have is your own two eyes to report with.

HA! Calibration meters are LIGHT meters, not "dark" meters. None of them are particularly good at measuring black levels and the i1 series in particular is pretty bad at measuring anything below 25% or so... measurements take a long time and are not particularly accurate - nor even particularly repeatable.

Using an i1 meter to measure dark is like using a meat thermometer to measure winter temperatures in Minnesota. It's just not the right tool. Even my $14,000 MSRP meter isn't particularly useful below 0.1 fL and on many displays 10% white is in the range of 0.2 fL +/-. So by the time you get to 5% or there-abouts, the readings my meter produces aren't anything you can hang your hat on. What you need is a test pattern with steps of 0%, 1%, 2%... to 10% or 0%-20% so you can be sure the setting you are selecting isn't blending multiple low-luminance steps together. It wouldn't hurt to have below black in the pattern also as some TVs will raise or lower black level with some service menu settings and if you aren't looking at a pattern like that, you could miss it.

"Movies is magic..." Van Dyke Parks
THX Certified Professional Video Calibration
ISF -- HAA -- www.dBtheatrical.com
Widescreen Review -- Home Theater & Sound
Doug Blackburn is offline  
post #26 of 28 Old 01-26-2010, 10:36 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Aeonus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 499
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Blackburn View Post

HA! Calibration meters are LIGHT meters, not "dark" meters. None of them are particularly good at measuring black levels and the i1 series in particular is pretty bad at measuring anything below 25% or so... measurements take a long time and are not particularly accurate - nor even particularly repeatable.

Using an i1 meter to measure dark is like using a meat thermometer to measure winter temperatures in Minnesota. It's just not the right tool. Even my $14,000 MSRP meter isn't particularly useful below 0.1 fL and on many displays 10% white is in the range of 0.2 fL +/-. So by the time you get to 5% or there-abouts, the readings my meter produces aren't anything you can hang your hat on. What you need is a test pattern with steps of 0%, 1%, 2%... to 10% or 0%-20% so you can be sure the setting you are selecting isn't blending multiple low-luminance steps together. It wouldn't hurt to have below black in the pattern also as some TVs will raise or lower black level with some service menu settings and if you aren't looking at a pattern like that, you could miss it.

Interesting information, thanks.
Aeonus is offline  
post #27 of 28 Old 02-01-2010, 08:37 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Aeonus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 499
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Changed the value back to M1 and it retained the deep black levels I am accustomed to.

So what happened was definitely a glitch of some sort that only became reset upon entering that menu of the service menu.

No idea why or how, but I am content.
Aeonus is offline  
post #28 of 28 Old 02-01-2010, 09:27 AM
AVS Special Member
 
PlasmaPZ80U's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,171
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 79 Post(s)
Liked: 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeonus View Post

Changed the value back to M1 and it retained the deep black levels I am accustomed to.

So what happened was definitely a glitch of some sort that only became reset upon entering that menu of the service menu.

No idea why or how, but I am content.

That definitely makes more sense than any other explanation and maybe it's related to the cinema smooth bug. Odd though, since you'd think Samsung would release a fix for a SW issue like the cinema smooth bug by this point in the product life cycle.
PlasmaPZ80U is online now  
Reply Display Calibration

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off