What is the best calibration disc??? - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 147 Old 12-16-2013, 12:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Iain- View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jah.volunteer View Post

Is the Spears and Munsil disc a good bet for a DIY attempt at calibration? I don't have any type of calibration tools or meters. Any other suggestions for a basic, step by step calibration for an LED panel?

Thanks

I did a basic calibration using v2 (latest version) of the Spears and Munsil disk last summer on my Panasonic 50GT50 plasma display. I found it quite effective and was stunned by the results of that at the time, and remain so to this day. I haven't touched the display calibration controls since. No need.

EDIT: Concurrent to that basic calibration of primary system monitor, was calibration of secondary system LED monitor (Samsung UE22F5000AK; UN22F5000AF is North American model equivalent) as well. Results of that calibration of secondary monitor was just as effective as it was of primary monitor.

Color_Space.png

Hello, did you checked that very useful pattern? ...to find out which of your blu-ray output setting provides the most accurate output / less colorspace conversions of your video signal chain. wink.gif

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
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post #32 of 147 Old 12-22-2013, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post

Color_Space.png

Hello, did you checked that very useful pattern? ...to find out which of your blu-ray output setting provides the most accurate output / less colorspace conversions of your video signal chain. wink.gif

Yes I did.

I originally had my Sony BDP-S790 set to output YCbCr4:4:4, AVR set for HDMI pass-through and display set for "1080P Pure Direct" mode. I compared that to RGB output from BDP and found the former colourspace output best of all. That's where I left it, subsequently.
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post #33 of 147 Old 12-28-2013, 04:38 PM
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The most impressive calibration disk is now available in MKV and MP4 versions, for calibrate all devices (media box, tv via USB, satellite...)

More info here http://www.displaycalibrations.com/index.html


Preview_01.png

Preview_02.png

Preview_03.png

Preview_04.png


UPDATE:

The MP4/MKV Media Files Version of the Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk has just released.

This release contains all the chapters of the Blu-Ray Release in MP4 and MKV formats, to give support to as many devices as possible, like:

Stand-Alone Media Players PC/MAC Software Players Satellite Tuners Digital TV Receivers Consoles (for movie playback from USB) Tablets/SmartPhones (who want to verify their screen for fun) TV's USB Movie Mode Apple Devices (iPad/iPhone etc.) Stand-Alone Media Players or PC Media Players that can't playback Blu-Ray ISO Files with Full-Menus (who users who tryed to use the Blu-Ray ISO Version of the disk to these players that don't support Full Blu-Ray Menus from any ISO.)

...And generally all possible devices that can have media player capabilities.

MadVR Users can use the LightSpace Chapter to perform Cube Profilings using LightSpace DIP Mode.
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post #34 of 147 Old 01-22-2014, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post

After reviewing all these disk I have at my disk collection, I'm presenting you my new Calibration Disk that features the largest pattern collection that are available at any other calibration disk.

It can be used for LightSpace CMS users, for automated without user prompt 3D LUT Profilings: 10-Point Cube (1.000 Color Points) or 17-Point Cube (4.913 Color Points) and manual 1D LUT Calibration using CalMAN or ChromaPure Software using your bluray remote for navigation.

I'm working to update the site with more details asap.

More info are available here.

...and You have done everything right.
After beeig a long time AVSHD disc user, when doing calibrations with TVs internal CMS, I created my own pattern to verfify the calibrations as I improved my video chain with a Radiance Mini. As most of You know using Radiance with Calman You are not calibrating the entire video chain as supposed. So at least You need the same pattern size to verify the results with your video player. But creating a pattern disk is really hard work and very very time intensive.

So I decided to get TED's disk after I saw the standards used for mastering and the amount of pattern it includes. As for the standards it was important to me to have the same as used for BD mastering. Well, I have to say I never regret. It took hours to evaluate all patterns, and I especially like the color reproduction patterns which are very useful to find a proper precal setup and faults after a calibration.

Now I improved my gear again with an eeColor and LightSpace.
And TEDs disk is still the best choice as I can now calibrate my entire video chain fully automated. For pre-calibrating my TV and verification I use Calman and the pattern from the Calman chapter, and I can be sure everything is right as all pattern on the disk have the same high standard.

It's the only disk now that I always have handy as it includes everything You need and much more, no matter if You use LightSpace, Calman or ChromaPure.
For the value of money I think it's truely the best disk ever made and can only be beaten by TEDs next release.
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post #35 of 147 Old 01-22-2014, 08:58 AM
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+1, it's a must have with obviously the famous "the spears and munsil version 2" smile.gif
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post #36 of 147 Old 01-23-2014, 04:03 PM
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IMO, any professional calibration disc should be compatible with the major SW workflows and offer also patterns beyond calibration. Then the calibrator can use the same disc not only for calibration, but also for validating/comparing/reviewing the display performance. And thats what Teds disc offers and others not. And if you finally have it, you can take some of the pinky advanced patterns and create a t-shirt for your girlfriend if you like.smile.gif
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post #37 of 147 Old 02-04-2014, 10:55 AM
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I'm looking to buy my first calibration discs. I need a pixel flipper so it sounds like Disney WOW is one to get. I also want to learn about calibration so figured I should get more than one. Others talked about...DVE, Spears and Munsil. What about ISF and Ted's? I'm new to calibration and would like some opinions before I buy.
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post #38 of 147 Old 02-04-2014, 11:38 AM
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Spears and munsil and Ted's disk cover all your needs for calibration
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post #39 of 147 Old 03-22-2014, 04:04 PM
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What disc that I can buy fro Amazon has the best and user-friendly grayscale and gamma calibration?

I have Disney's WoW but I could not figure out the gamma section and the gray scale I don't think was up to par as i'm still having my all whites have slight red hints.

Thank you.

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post #40 of 147 Old 03-23-2014, 12:42 PM
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Most people talked about the Spears&Munsil so I picked up the 2nd edition.
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post #41 of 147 Old 03-23-2014, 06:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jah.volunteer View Post

Is the Spears and Munsil disc a good bet for a DIY attempt at calibration? I don't have any type of calibration tools or meters. Any other suggestions for a basic, step by step calibration for an LED panel?

Thanks

The only controls you can set with accuracy using a disc are Brightness and Sharpness. Most any disc will help you do that. Some may argue that you can set Contrast with a setup disc... that is an incorrect argument. All you can do with a setup disc is tell whether your display clips white or not and if it does clip white, you can learn the highest setting you can use where there is no clipping. But that highest setting is not the RIGHT setting. You want roughly 35 foot-Lamberts for 100% white in a dark room. No setup disc on earth is going to tell you how to figure out (without a meter) which Contrast setting gets you 35 fL. So all you can go by lacking a meter is to watch something for a couple of hours, like a movie. If you are in a dark room and your eyes feel strained after a couple of hours, chances are your Contrast setting is too high. So lower it in steps till you no longer detect eyestrain. No setup disc I've ever seen tells you that. They always tell you something very misleading and make you THINK that the highest Contrast setting you can use without clipping is the best Contrast setting. Few of the setup discs even mention backlighting (aka bias light) as a means of improving apparent black level and reducing eyestrain at the same time.

Everything else on the disc, and even the "blue filter" method for setting the color and tint controls fail so often that they are really no better than using your eyes to set those controls. In fact, every good setup disc will tell you that after you use the blue filter to set color and tint, if the picture doesn't look right to you, adjust color or tint until the picture DOES look right. If that's the case, why not just use your eyes and forget the blue filter... the discs WAY over-state how accurate the blue filter method is. I used the blue filter on probably 20 or 30 different displays and not one time did any of them produce the proper settings for color and tint (more than one disc and filter were tried).

So the real difference between discs is how much other useful content is there on the disc? DVE probably has the most comprehensive background information for beginners. WOW is simple to use for beginners but lacks all the background information you can get from DVE. For someone who has progressed beyond the basics on those 2 discs, the Spears & Munsil disc lets you uncover WAY more about how your TV performs overall than you can get from other discs.

Calibration REQUIRES a meter and software. You aren't really calibrating if you are just setting the Brightness control and Sharpness control. What you are doing there is analogous to setting the right tire pressures on your car. If you are serious about performance on your car, you will CALIBRATE the car by doing precision wheel alignments, balance the weight on the fronts and back so left and right sides of the car have the same weights on each side... and on and on refining many mechanical parameters, with all of them requiring special tools because you can't guess at them and get them right. Getting the tire pressures right is important, but it's just scratching the surface. Similarly, getting Brightness and Sharpness set correctly is important, but that's also just scratching the surface.
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post #42 of 147 Old 03-24-2014, 06:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Doug Blackburn View Post

The only controls you can set with accuracy using a disc are Brightness and Sharpness. Most any disc will help you do that. Some may argue that you can set Contrast with a setup disc... that is an incorrect argument.

Calibration REQUIRES a meter and software. You aren't really calibrating if you are just setting the Brightness control and Sharpness control. What you are doing there is analogous to setting the right tire pressures on your car. If you are serious about performance on your car, you will CALIBRATE the car by doing precision wheel alignments, balance the weight on the fronts and back so left and right sides of the car have the same weights on each side... and on and on refining many mechanical parameters, with all of them requiring special tools because you can't guess at them and get them right. Getting the tire pressures right is important, but it's just scratching the surface. Similarly, getting Brightness and Sharpness set correctly is important, but that's also just scratching the surface.

I used the WOW disc yesterday and came to your conclusion and basically stopped after setting the brightness & sharpness. Then I read your post here; how ironic is that. +1 for the good information you have provided.
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post #43 of 147 Old 03-24-2014, 08:01 AM
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What is a good affordable meter/software to use?

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post #44 of 147 Old 03-24-2014, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by mijotter View Post

What is a good affordable meter/software to use?
Yours is a question difficult to answer without some specific idea of what you consider "affordable." Do you want folks to just guess what your budget is, or can you provide a price range?
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post #45 of 147 Old 03-24-2014, 11:15 AM
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Spears and munsil and Ted's disk cover all your needs for calibration

+1 here.

I have all free discs, but from time I have oppo 103 I use only Spears and Munsil - great for initial settings of TV and blu ray player to catch any unwanted processing, selecting proper configuration of blu ray and TV. Benefit here is comprehensive readings on homepage.
With TEDs disc (which is available for small symbolic fee) you have any possible pattern (and lot, lot more) for covering three big calibrations software producers : Lightspace, CalMAN and Chromapure. More than that, TED is not simple person, most probably he is five head dragon, he is everywhere on forums, responding to any question in no time and, as I am registered buyer, he is full of new ideas what to place on new updates or releases.
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post #46 of 147 Old 03-24-2014, 12:06 PM
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Well I do not know what any of the prices are on any of them. But i'm looking for something that will do it's job well and be a decent price. Maybe a range will help?

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post #47 of 147 Old 03-24-2014, 12:26 PM
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Well I do not know what any of the prices are on any of them. But i'm looking for something that will do it's job well and be a decent price. Maybe a range will help?
Define "decent price."
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post #48 of 147 Old 03-24-2014, 05:54 PM
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You can spend from less than $100 up to well more than $20,000 for a meter suitable for calibrating TVs.

The cheaper the meter, the less accurate it will be AND the more trouble it will have measuring LCD (CCFL or LED) flat panels. Also, less expensive meters use a small number of color filters in them and those filters age and drift over time so that after 2-5 years, the readings the meter makes will not be the same.

You can hire a professional calibrator to calibrate your display(s) for you with the first one costing (approx) ($300 to $400, add more for 3D calibration in addition to 2D calibration) depending on where you live.

There are meters in the $200-$500 range I would characterize as pretty decent and if you purchase one from someone who sells calibration software like Spectracal, the meter may even come with a correction file to make it more accurate when you calibrate LCD flat panel TVs. And there may be services you can send a meter to where your meter will be measured against a reference meter and a new correction file can be generated to compensate for any drifting in the filters inside your meter over time.

So you could go dirt cheap on your own and spend say $150-$200 on a meter with NO extra support to make it more accurate for LCD display measurements and use free calibration software that requires you to learn a lot about calibration and a lot about the software on your own and with the help of others who are using the free software, or you can spend some money on the software and benefit from tutorials and a broader user base, perhaps with many pro calibrators using the software. The best places to start researching are probably the ColorHCFR software threads here (free software) the Spectracal web site (they make CalMAN calibration software) and the ChromaPure web site and AVS threads. There is NO easy answer to your question. You have to figure out what's best for you, nobody else will know as much as you know about what you can do or can't do on your own. And be VERY WARY of anybody who says "X software and Y meter are perfect for you" when they know little or nothing about how you work and learn. Answers like that often come from people who own that combination or wish they did--not from someone who knows there's more than one right answer to a question like yours. I don't know any knowledgeable calibrators (pro or amateur) who would give an answer that simple. It would always come back to how much you're willing to spend and what your level of time commitment is to learning how to calibrate... and just so you have a ball-park on the learning aspect... expect to spend around 100 hours studying calibration and practicing with your meter and software before you start to get good calibrations. It is NOT an easy thing to do that you can just get what you need and jump right it. There is much to understand before you get good at it. Calibration is often said to be a combination of science and art and you won't be good at it without being good at both the art and the science.
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post #49 of 147 Old 03-25-2014, 11:50 AM
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Thank you Doug very informative. If I were to hire a pro how long would he take to finish? In your experience has it happened that the pro did it wrong and it looked worse than when he started?

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post #50 of 147 Old 03-25-2014, 12:55 PM
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Greetings

Pro ... someone that charges money for their services ... (no where in this does it describe the competence of the person.)

There are certainly cases where calibrators have messed things up ... just like mechanics do it ... and doctors mess things up ... and lawyers mess things up and so on.

The onus is on you to ask the right questions and screen out who you ultimately want.

http://www.tlvexp.ca/2013/05/ravings-of-a-mad-man-inside-the-big-box-store/

This article gives you an idea of what might happen when things go wrong ... when people don't do their due diligence.

regards
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post #51 of 147 Old 03-25-2014, 02:03 PM
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Every year tens of thousands of patients die due to physician error in the U.S. alone. Folks still rely on doctors for professional health care.
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post #52 of 147 Old 03-25-2014, 04:03 PM
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Is there any value in the Disney WOW audio calibration? I've had my panel ISF calibrated, now I'd like to tweak the audio of my AVR.

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post #53 of 147 Old 03-25-2014, 05:24 PM
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Audio calibration is like video calibration... without tools, you are just guessing about whether the audio is as good as it can be. For audio calibration, your tools are a reference quality microphone and some sort of measurement software... RoomEQ Wizard is free software and works surprisingly well for something free. But you can't just jump in and use it without understanding quite a lot about audio and audio measurements.

Nothing you do with a disc like WOW or any other disc is going to tell you anything more than whether you have the fundamentals right... have you connected the Left signal to the Left speaker and is the right surround signal going to the right surround speaker. And have you connected each channel with the red speaker wire to the red terminal on the speaker (rather than having the wires reversed which equals out of polarity). That's not really calibration. Again, it's more like putting tires on your car and making sure there is air in them. If you are serious about handling, there is WAY more work to be done on the car... same thing with audio. Your ears are so easily fooled that you can't really trust them -- well there are SOME things you can trust them for... they will tell you if you have one speaker connected with the wires backwards. But no disc can tell you if you have the speakers in the best locations, or whether you have all the channels balanced so they are all playing the same volume (SPL), Nor can any disc tell you if you need room treatments to improve acoustics in the room. A lot of room tuning comes from experience and experimentation.

The microphone and software will tell you if there is anything obviously bad, but it won't tell you how to correct something bad...you have to know enough about audio to know what your options are and be willing to move, say, a subwoofer 6 inches and take new measurements to see if they look better. Then move it 6 inches again and take another measurement, and do it again... maybe 10 or 20 times until you find a spot with the fewest problems in your measurements.

If your AVR or surround processor has Audyssey, it actually CAN work pretty well if your room isn't too unusual and if your problems aren't too severe. But you get much better Audyssey results if you START with a tuned system that lacks big problems than you get if you just plopped things down at random and ran Audyssey. Of course they never SAY that anywhere - that something else you have to learn from knowing about and understanding audio.

There are forums here for audio and there is even (if I recall correctly) a forum for RoomEQ Wizard users where you may be able to get insights you would not get on your own.
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post #54 of 147 Old 03-25-2014, 05:33 PM
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A question was asked about how long a professional calibration takes.

I can't tell you what others do, but I'd say my average is pretty close to 3 hours for 2D calibration on a TV with controls for grayscale and color management where the controls work fairly well and I'm already familiar with the brand and model. It might even be a little less than 3 hours on a TV model I'm very familiar with. This time includes explaining to the owner what I'm doing as I work through the calibration and showing them how the various graphs change when I make adjustments to controls in the TV. If you add 3D calibration, figure another 90 minutes or so. But some TVs are really hard to work with because the controls don't work well... you can often add an hour or even 1.5 hours to a calibration when the controls fight back and don't let you zero-in on a good calibration fairly quickly. So I quoted an "average" but I'll follow that up by saying I rarely encounter an "average" calibration! LOL! Things happen. I've had calibrations last 6 hours back in the days when calibration controls were not very good... and there are a surprising number of brands and models even today that have controls that are problematic and consistently drag out the calibration session. I've had cases where I spend 3 hours getting close, but not close enough only to realize that the mode and combination of settings I started with will never calibrate as well as the display should be calibrated and I have to start over again with a different mode and different settings. You just never know in advance how long any specific calibration will take.
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post #55 of 147 Old 03-25-2014, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Blackburn View Post

A question was asked about how long a professional calibration takes.

I can't tell you what others do, but I'd say my average is pretty close to 3 hours for 2D calibration on a TV with controls for grayscale and color management where the controls work fairly well and I'm already familiar with the brand and model. It might even be a little less than 3 hours on a TV model I'm very familiar with. This time includes explaining to the owner what I'm doing as I work through the calibration and showing them how the various graphs change when I make adjustments to controls in the TV. If you add 3D calibration, figure another 90 minutes or so. But some TVs are really hard to work with because the controls don't work well... you can often add an hour or even 1.5 hours to a calibration when the controls fight back and don't let you zero-in on a good calibration fairly quickly. So I quoted an "average" but I'll follow that up by saying I rarely encounter an "average" calibration! LOL! Things happen. I've had calibrations last 6 hours back in the days when calibration controls were not very good... and there are a surprising number of brands and models even today that have controls that are problematic and consistently drag out the calibration session. I've had cases where I spend 3 hours getting close, but not close enough only to realize that the mode and combination of settings I started with will never calibrate as well as the display should be calibrated and I have to start over again with a different mode and different settings. You just never know in advance how long any specific calibration will take.

This mirrors my experience with the tech that calibrated my TV (D-Nice). It took roughly 3 hours for ISF Day/Night, Custom and 3D. He did mention that my panel was giving him no trouble and he reached the proper levels easily. I just let him do his thing without much interruption.

Thanks for the response on Audio. My Yamaha uses the YPAO microphone which I implemented right out of the box. I have no major issues with my setup...at least not enough to go through too much trouble. I'm just looking to cross reference certain settings. I don't have too many options on speaker placement.

Panasonic 55VT50
Yamaha RX-V477
Energy Take Classic 5.1
Sony BDP-S590
ROKU 2XS; ROKU 3
TiVo Roamio Basic w/ Mohu Curve 30
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post #56 of 147 Old 03-25-2014, 09:16 PM
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Doug it's too bad you don't live closer. Is there a website that can display pro calibrators in a given area? Otherwise I just don't know where to look.

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post #57 of 147 Old 03-26-2014, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mijotter View Post

Doug it's too bad you don't live closer. Is there a website that can display pro calibrators in a given area? Otherwise I just don't know where to look.
Hello,
If you are looking for a calibrator...I would personally contact Chad B he has a really good reputation as a calibrator..and is in Ohio.
Give him a yell.

RayJr
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post #58 of 147 Old 03-26-2014, 06:56 PM
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You may want to take a look at the review that was posted about Chad B's work

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post #59 of 147 Old 03-26-2014, 11:14 PM
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Thank you I will look in to that. Another quesion, let's say I get it calibrated professionally. Does he have to come back again every so often to keep the calibration up to snuff(lamp hour degradation and such) I read that DIY calibrations such as Spyder and others lose their quality over time.

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post #60 of 147 Old 03-27-2014, 10:09 AM
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Greetings

Nothing lasts forever. Do you only do one tune up for your car ... ever? Why would a projector be different? Lamps change over time ... but if the calibrator is local to you ... then re-tweak visits are usually much cheaper than the first time.

You should give this article a read about what your real options are when it comes to calibration.

http://www.tlvexp.ca/2013/03/poor-tv-picture-quality-not-happy/

Summary ...

1. Buy test disc and follow instructions. ($0 to $40)
2. Buy hardware and software in addition to disc and learn to do it yourself. ($300 to $500) ... and in a year or so, you might scrounge up enough information to learn to do it all yourself ... and maybe even correctly.
3. Hire a good professional to do it. ($300 to $450) ... and they might even educate you on the process as well. Takes 3 to 5 hours and you are set.
4. Buy hardware and software and jump start the learning process buy paying for professional education/training ($150 to $2000) And paying more here does not mean it is better.

regards
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Michael Chen @ The Laser Video Experience
ISF/THX/TLV Video Instructor
The Video Calibration Education Hub - www.TLVEXP.com

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