X-Rite's Revolutionary New Colorimeter - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 1402 Old 07-17-2011, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post

In our next major release, we will be offering a manual touch-up tool similar to this that you can use after auto-calibrate has finished.

Nice. The Duo OSD messes with the readings so I hope the future add on won't put anything on the screen.

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post #272 of 1402 Old 07-17-2011, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post

So is ChromPure the only one that has the auto calibration feature with the DVDO DUO?

And also, just to make sure, this will work fine with RP LED & Lamp based DLP units right?

Not at all, CalMAN has had interactive control for a year now, and autocal for almost as long.

The most recent release has made it even faster and more accurate.

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post #273 of 1402 Old 07-18-2011, 05:05 AM
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Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post

In our next major release, we will be offering a manual touch-up tool similar to this that you can use after auto-calibrate has finished.

Tom,

Does this mean that the next release will have interactive capabilities. Would be nice to have interactive regardless of the autocal for those who prefer to manual manipulation of the DUO.
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post #274 of 1402 Old 07-18-2011, 07:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by avsform1 View Post

Does this mean that the next release will have interactive capabilities. Would be nice to have interactive regardless of the autocal for those who prefer to manual manipulation of the DUO.

It will just be an interface that allows you to adjust the Duo or Lumagen based on CP readings using your PC rather than the respective remotes.

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post #275 of 1402 Old 07-18-2011, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post

It will just be an interface that allows you to adjust the Duo or Lumagen based on CP readings using your PC rather than the respective remotes.

Since these meters are "bound" to a particular product. I find myself forced with the choice of whether to switch from Calman to Chromapure.

I like the idea of using Autocalibration with my Lumagen Radiance. However, when I bring it up folks seem to be too keen on autocalibration.

Does it get you close to a professional calibration?

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post #276 of 1402 Old 07-18-2011, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by RichB View Post

Since these meters are "bound" to a particular product. I find myself forced with the choice of whether to switch from Calman to Chromapure.

I like the idea of using Autocalibration with my Lumagen Radiance. However, when I bring it up folks seem to be too keen on autocalibration.

Does it get you close to a professional calibration?

- Rich

I know in my experience with Calman the answer is yes. You can set the limits for what you want in terms of delta, so the calibration is as accurate as you want it to be. It will keep chugging until it hits the levels you want.

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post #277 of 1402 Old 07-18-2011, 10:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by RichB View Post

Since these meters are "bound" to a particular product. I find myself forced with the choice of whether to switch from Calman to Chromapure.

I like the idea of using Autocalibration with my Lumagen Radiance. However, when I bring it up folks seem to be too keen on autocalibration.

Does it get you close to a professional calibration?

Absolutely. The current dE (CIE94) standard that we use is 1.75 or lower for color and 2.0 or lower for grayscale. The gamma target is in the 2.2-2.3 range. In our next version we will offer some user-adjustable targets.

I actually wasn't that enthusiastic on auto-calibration myself until we had it working. To get a display within spec in less than 10 minutes with no user intervention is really cool. If you are anal (I am), you can spend another 5 minutes manually tweaking the results to get it perfect.

BTW, the only meter that is "bound" to a particular product that I know of is the C6. The basic OEM i1 Display Pro III will work with any vendor that supports the meter and our Display 3 PRO will also, though you would lose the enhanced calibration.

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post #278 of 1402 Old 07-18-2011, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

I know in my experience with Calman the answer is yes. You can set the limits for what you want in terms of delta, so the calibration is as accurate as you want it to be. It will keep chugging until it hits the levels you want.

Excellent. Thanks.

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post #279 of 1402 Old 07-18-2011, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

I know in my experience with Calman the answer is yes. You can set the limits for what you want in terms of delta, so the calibration is as accurate as you want it to be. It will keep chugging until it hits the levels you want.

I second the positive autocalibration experience with CalMAN and Radiance. I also have positive experience with monitor autocalibration with CalPC.

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post #280 of 1402 Old 07-18-2011, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post

Absolutely. The current dE (CIE94) standard that we use is 1.75 or lower for color and 2.0 or lower for grayscale. The gamma target is in the 2.2-2.3 range. In our next version we will offer some user-adjustable targets.

I actually wasn't that enthusiastic on auto-calibration myself until we had it working. To get a display within spec in less than 10 minutes with no user intervention is really cool. If you are anal (I am), you can spend another 5 minutes manually tweaking the results to get it perfect.

BTW, the only meter that is "bound" to a particular product that I know of is the C6. The basic OEM i1 Display Pro III will work with any vendor that supports the meter and our Display 3 PRO will also, though you would lose the enhanced calibration.

So I could buy the OEM i1 Display Pro III from you and also use it with Calman? The reason I ask is I have read that the best calibration results occur when you calibrate the display first to get it close and use the Radiance to finish the job to make it perfect.

Calman has DDC (Direct Display Control) for the Pioneer GT30 is this available in Chromapure?

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post #281 of 1402 Old 07-18-2011, 01:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by RichB View Post

So I could buy the OEM i1 Display Pro III from you and also use it with Calman? The reason I ask is I have read that the best calibration results occur when you calibrate the display first to get it close and use the Radiance to finish the job to make it perfect.

Calman has DDC (Direct Display Control) for the Pioneer GT30 is this available in Chromapure?

I think so, but you'll have to confirm that with them. No, currently we require use of the Duo or Radiance for this.

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post #282 of 1402 Old 07-18-2011, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by RichB View Post

So I could buy the OEM i1 Display Pro III from you and also use it with Calman? The reason I ask is I have read that the best calibration results occur when you calibrate the display first to get it close and use the Radiance to finish the job to make it perfect.

Calman has DDC (Direct Display Control) for the Pioneer GT30 is this available in Chromapure?

Thanks,

Rich

We also sell an OEM i1 Display Pro http://consumer.spectracal.com/colle.../oem-i1display.

And we do have an autocal add-on for the panasonic as well. You can call our sales guys to get a package put together.

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post #283 of 1402 Old 07-18-2011, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by sotti View Post

We also sell an OEM i1 Display Pro http://consumer.spectracal.com/colle.../oem-i1display.

And we do have an autocal add-on for the Panasonic as well. You can call our sales guys to get a package put together.

Last time I checked, there was some confusion.
The North American GT30's Panel auto-calibration was not supported.

Your OEM I1 does not show support for Plasma displays.

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post #284 of 1402 Old 07-18-2011, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by RichB View Post

Last time I checked, there was some confusion.
The North American GT30's Panel auto-calibration was not supported.

Your OEM I1 does not show support for Plasma displays.

- Rich

That is correct about the NA GT30.

The OEM i1 Display Pro works just fine on plasma, it's just the C6 will have increased accuracy on them.

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post #285 of 1402 Old 07-18-2011, 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by sotti View Post

it's just the C6 will have increased accuracy on them.

How?
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post #286 of 1402 Old 07-19-2011, 05:20 AM
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Originally Posted by sotti View Post

The OEM i1 Display Pro works just fine on plasma, it's just the C6 will have increased accuracy on them.

More accurate on which one and what about the others...?

Pioneer, LG, Panasonic and Samsung PDPs as well as their yearly models (well, may be not in every years but from main generations to main generations...) have different phosphors which means they have different gamuts (more or less). The emitted lights of them have different spectral distributions, so colorimeters require different corrections for them.

I think the general PDP preset of the sensor (the X-Rite factory one) is an averaged correction which is more or less accurate for PDPs in general (and generally better than let's say the LCD one...).

I doubt you offer unique matrices for every PDP phosphor gamuts. So, may be a Pana GT30 matrix is worse for a Samsung D8000 than the general PDP matrix, an so on...

This is why it's a better idea to calculate the corrections for the particular display using a spectrometer in real time on the field.

->

And this is what X-Rite tried to eliminate(/"fix") by putting spectral sensitivity curves into the firmware.
If that data would be unique and accurate for the the particular sensor (not only an averaged one for a batch) then we don't need to use spectrometers on the field anymore. We could compare the spectral sensitivity of the sensor with the spectral response of the display model (any display with the same phosphor/backlight+filters/etc).


So, I think you (CalMan and ChromaPure guys) should re-build that spectral sensitivity data in the firmware (uniquely and accurately for the particular sensor one-by-one...) and put up a huge online database with spectral measurements of the displays in the market (unique spectral gamut measurements for every display models with different phosphor, backlight or filters...) and do the sensor-correction in the software by comparing the spectral sensitivity of the sensor (preferably in the firmware, so it would be accessibly by any softwares or in the license files if you insist...) with the spectral characteristics of the given display (for example, a Pana G20 or a Samu C7000 measurement -> not uniquely for the particular display but for the particular display model in general...).

This way the results would be very accurate on any characterized displays. (If you do the gamut measurements with reference grade spectrometers and you did the meter profiling accurately too in your lab...)


But I think this dream is already failed to become reality (it's unfortunate and funny at the same time) and nobody will really use that spectra sensitivity data in the firmware. (Not even X-Rite if they decided not to calibrate every sensors uniquely one-by-one but include some averaged results -> it's still better than nothing though, but I don't know if they started to build a database like I mentioned above and if they plan to use it with their software or not. I think it was meant for third-party developers, like SpectraCal and yet they seem to ignore it and follow the "old ways", even if it's a stupid one when compared to the available solutions. )

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post #287 of 1402 Old 07-19-2011, 06:26 AM
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Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post

...
BTW, the only meter that is "bound" to a particular product that I know of is the C6. The basic OEM i1 Display Pro III will work with any vendor that supports the meter and our Display 3 PRO will also, though you would lose the enhanced calibration.

What about the original X-Rite ColorMunki Display and X-Rite i1Display Pro?
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post #288 of 1402 Old 07-19-2011, 06:50 AM
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What about the original X-Rite ColorMunki Display and X-Rite i1Display Pro?

Retail Versions of X-Rite ColorMunki Display & X-Rite i1Display Pro can work only with the included X-rite iProfiler software.

They have a firmware lock and can't be operated by ChromaPure, CalMAN or any other third party software.

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post #289 of 1402 Old 07-19-2011, 06:54 AM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post

Retail Versions of X-Rite ColorMunki Display & X-Rite i1Display Pro can work only with the included X-rite iProfiler software.

It's firmware locked and can't be operated by ChromaPure, CalMAN or any other third party software.

Thank you.
So there are at least 3 meter that are "bound" to a particular product.
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post #290 of 1402 Old 07-19-2011, 08:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by drSeehas View Post

What about the original X-Rite ColorMunki Display and X-Rite i1Display Pro?

The retail versions of these will not work with any 3rd party vendor. I thought that we were are talking only about the OEM version.

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post #291 of 1402 Old 07-19-2011, 01:53 PM
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The retail versions of these will not work with any 3rd party vendor.
This is not entirely true. ArgyllCMS will support the retail X-Rite hardwares.
That's not a specialized HDTV calibration software but you can use it for HDTV calibration too. (And Greame sad he will gladly make it more comfortable for HDTV calibration in the future. I already started to write a "HDTV calibration wish list". ) But of course, a command line tool won't plot you nice graphs and charts...

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post #292 of 1402 Old 07-19-2011, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by janos666

This is not entirely true. ArgyllCMS will support the retail X-Rite hardwares.
That's not a specialized HDTV calibration software but you can use it for HDTV calibration too. (And Greame sad he will gladly make it more comfortable for HDTV calibration in the future. I already started to write a "HDTV calibration wish list". ) But of course, a command line tool won't plot you nice graphs and charts...
Have they managed to find the unlock codes for these meters then? The fact these are not supported in ChromaPure is not a driver issue or a software choice, but a restriction caused by Xrite having locked the retail meters and are not giving the information to developers to unlock the meters.
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post #293 of 1402 Old 07-19-2011, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by janos666 View Post
This is not entirely true. ArgyllCMS will support the retail X-Rite hardwares.
That's not a specialized HDTV calibration software but you can use it for HDTV calibration too. (And Greame sad he will gladly make it more comfortable for HDTV calibration in the future. I already started to write a "HDTV calibration wish list". ) But of course, a command line tool won't plot you nice graphs and charts...
I would not hold your breath for any 3rd party support for retail meters. Their intention to support the hardware and their ability to support the hardware are two different things.

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post #294 of 1402 Old 07-19-2011, 03:01 PM - Thread Starter
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This is not entirely true. ArgyllCMS will support the retail X-Rite hardwares.
ArgyllCMS is not an X-Rite vendor. He reverse engineers support for X-Rite meters from publicly available information.

Any hacker is of course free to do anything they wish without the manufacturer's support or even consent so long as they don't run afoul of applicable laws regarding intellectual property.

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post #295 of 1402 Old 07-19-2011, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post
ArgyllCMS is not an X-Rite vendor. He reverse engineers support for X-Rite meters from publicly available information.
I know it very well.
But why should I care about it? I get a free software which works equally or even better (for example, the adaptive sensor mode for the iPro and the CM is a very nice feature but it's impossible with the X-Rite driver) with the cheaper hardwares (the i1LT and the i1d2 are equal in this software and I think the ColorMunki Display and the Display Pro will be equal as well...) than the more expensive softwares (everything is infinitely more expensive than a free software ) with the more expensive hardwares (for example, the OEM Display III is more expensive than a ColorMunki Display).
I never payed for it but I already got more support than I ever got from any commercial software developers.

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post #296 of 1402 Old 07-19-2011, 04:54 PM - Thread Starter
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I know it very well.
But why should I care about it?

I didn't suggest that you or anyone else should care. I was merely justifying my assertion (that you took exception to) that no 3rd-party vendor will support the retail i1 Display Pro III. ArgyllCMS is not a "vendor" in any reasonable sense of that term.

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post #297 of 1402 Old 07-21-2011, 08:05 AM - Thread Starter
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I was supposed to get my first shipment of Display 3s from X-Rite yesterday. When they didn't arrive I contacted them. I was told that they would be a week later than originally scheduled. No explanation was given.

Very annoying. Anyway, I wanted to inform those people who placed pre-orders that there would be a one-week delay.

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post #298 of 1402 Old 07-21-2011, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post

I was supposed to get my first shipment of Display 3s from X-Rite yesterday. When they didn't arrive I contacted them. I was told that they would be a week later than originally scheduled. No explanation was given.

Very annoying. Anyway, I wanted to inform those people who placed pre-orders that there would be a one-week delay.

I was told by SpectraCal earlier this month that they were getting theirs next week too. It seems they were told they were getting the meters the last week of July from the start.
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post #299 of 1402 Old 07-25-2011, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post

Retail Versions of X-Rite ColorMunki Display & X-Rite i1Display Pro can work only with the included X-rite iProfiler software.

They have a firmware lock and can't be operated by ChromaPure, CalMAN or any other third party software.

Connecteddd,

So if you have a I1pro not purchased through CP or CM, the respective sw package doesn't recognize the meter?
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post #300 of 1402 Old 07-25-2011, 08:33 AM
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Had anyone gotten there meter yet and calibrated a display yet?
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