X-Rite's Revolutionary New Colorimeter - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 1402 Old 08-08-2011, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

Is the default exposure time of 1 second the best setting for the OEM i1 Display?

I checked the options today and they were 1, 2, 3, and 4 seconds, meaning the meter was already at its fastest setting to begin with. I wonder if the meter can actually read faster than 1 second but CalMAN intentionally increases exposure time to 1 second for better consistency and/or to give the C6 an advantage in this regard. Any thoughts on this matter? It's not like 1 second is slow, it just seems not as fast as initial reports indicated.
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post #362 of 1402 Old 08-08-2011, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
I checked the options today and they were 1, 2, 3, and 4 seconds, meaning the meter was already at its fastest setting to begin with. I wonder if the meter can actually read faster than 1 second but CalMAN intentionally increases exposure time to 1 second for better consistency and/or to give the C6 an advantage in this regard. Any thoughts on this matter? It's not like 1 second is slow, it just seems not as fast as initial reports indicated.
I don't know the answer, but ^^ would be my guess. I should be receiving my OEM D3 from Spectracal tomorrow and I'm curious to see how it compares speed-wise to my i1D2.
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post #363 of 1402 Old 08-09-2011, 12:41 AM
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Originally Posted by grcass View Post

Hi Tom, it would be good if your website was clearer about the (non) use of x-rite i1Display Pro (sold as x-rite product).

I ordered an x-rite i1Display Pro for use with ChromaPure professional based on
"Supported Meters
X-Rite i1 Display Pro III (Display 3) colorimeter
...."

Was only that I was bored and decided to read this forum thread that I found out that the meter I ordered will not work. I'm now hoping the vendor will do a full refund for me.

Unfortunately the vendor has already sent the i1Display Pro so in order to get a refund I will need to send it back after it arrives, however I'll have to pay the shipping cost (UK -> Australia, Australia -> UK) and if the box is damage in transit I'll get less of a refund. Very annoyed.

What I am thinking to do is to keep the i1Display Pro and use it to calibrate/profile my TV (via PC), then measure various grey/colour patches using my existing (old) i1 D2 with ChromaPure to build a sort of error profile for the D2. Then I can use the D2 to calibrate my TV except to target the error profiled xyY points? Would it even be possible to build an error profile matrix for the D2 and load it into ChromaPure?

Any suggestions are welcome
Gary.
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post #364 of 1402 Old 08-09-2011, 02:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grcass View Post

Unfortunately the vendor has already sent the i1Display Pro so in order to get a refund I will need to send it back after it arrives, however I'll have to pay the shipping cost (UK -> Australia, Australia -> UK) and if the box is damage in transit I'll get less of a refund. Very annoyed.

What I am thinking to do is to keep the i1Display Pro and use it to calibrate/profile my TV (via PC), then measure various grey/colour patches using my existing (old) i1 D2 with ChromaPure to build a sort of error profile for the D2. Then I can use the D2 to calibrate my TV except to target the error profiled xyY points? Would it even be possible to build an error profile matrix for the D2 and load it into ChromaPure?

Any suggestions are welcome
Gary.

Using X-Rite iProfiler Software of the Retail Version of iDisplayPRO, the problem is that it can't measure and display you any xyY value, all procedure is automated and it will be create a LUT table with corrections for your VGA Card of your PC only.

I had the same problem with you, i have orded the retail version of iDisplayPRO from UK the first days of it's release at UK stores and i have returned it back without opening the box. BTW You will pay only the Australia -> UK shipping cost.

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S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, CalPC, ControlCAL
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post #365 of 1402 Old 08-09-2011, 03:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post

Using X-Rite iProfiler Software of the Retail Version of iDisplayPRO, the problem is that it can't measure and display you any xyY value, all procedure is automated and it will be create a LUT table with corrections for your VGA Card of your PC only.

I had the same problem with you, i have orded the retail version of iDisplayPRO from UK the first days of it's release at UK stores and i have returned it back without opening the box. BTW You will pay only the Australia -> UK shipping cost.

The inability to show xyY data is a sad omission in the bundled software.
Is this deliberate or an oversight?

Any software that is not capable of displaying these basic readings despite measuring exactly that is surely incomplete.

I was hoping to measure just the xy coordinates and the Luminance and use my Duo's CMS to adjust grayscale and colours externally.

It seems that for some reason the OEM version (minus the Pantone software) has become much more expensive than the bundled version, this is blamed on ''economies of scale'' by the retailers.

I think there has to be a hidden agenda somewhere.
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post #366 of 1402 Old 08-09-2011, 06:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post

Using X-Rite iProfiler Software of the Retail Version of iDisplayPRO, the problem is that it can't measure and display you any xyY value, all procedure is automated and it will be create a LUT table with corrections for your VGA Card of your PC only.

I had the same problem with you, i have orded the retail version of iDisplayPRO from UK the first days of it's release at UK stores and i have returned it back without opening the box. BTW You will pay only the Australia -> UK shipping cost.

Thanks ConnecTEDDD, I expected that the retail software would not give a xyY value. I was actually thinking to do the PC calibration/profiling with the retail software, then with the assumption that the displayed profiled PC images are RBG accurate, use my D2 to measure various grey and colour patches of known xyY. My assumption would then be that the D2 errors are the measured differences from the known colour patch xyY.

Clearly the results will not be as accurate as using an OEM iDisplayPRO directly within ChromaPure, and will depend a lot on the accuracy of the PC display calibration/profiling. Although I think the results should be better than using an old D2 by itself?

I guess it would be best if the xyY colour patches that I use to generate the D2 errors should be a little bit within the sRGB gamut to avoid possible clipping from the display?

I just noticed that ChromPure has a Meter Offset function which should work a treat.

Cheers
Gary.
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post #367 of 1402 Old 08-10-2011, 07:51 AM
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I recieved my OEM meter yesterday with Calman and I have some basic questions I can't find answers to. I'm a calibration newb so bare with me.

When calibrating a projector how far from the screen should the meter be placed? Currently it's about 18" away from the screen.

What angle should the meter be placed at? I have it angled up about 45 degrees to miss the shadow from the projector but it's very hard to determine how much area the meter is actually seeing.

Should I use a Windowed color field or full screen color field? Why do I get different results between the two? Does the meter need to see the black border against the color to make the reading?

What % grayscale should I use to take the color temperature readings?
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post #368 of 1402 Old 08-10-2011, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by npc2396 View Post

I recieved my OEM meter yesterday with Calman and I have some basic questions I can't find answers to. I'm a calibration newb so bare with me.

When calibrating a projector how far from the screen should the meter be placed? Currently it's about 18" away from the screen.

What angle should the meter be placed at? I have it angled up about 45 degrees to miss the shadow from the projector but it's very hard to determine how much area the meter is actually seeing.

Should I use a Windowed color field or full screen color field? Why do I get different results between the two? Does the meter need to see the black border against the color to make the reading?

What % grayscale should I use to take the color temperature readings?

I don't have CalMan, but:

18" is fine

DON'T angle it up. Angle it sideways just enough to avoid the shadow while reading - you obviously missed Tom Huffman's post about keeping it in the vertical plane

full field

The meter should ONLY read the pattern

Either 75 or 100 but keep it constant

Buzz
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post #369 of 1402 Old 08-10-2011, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

I don't have CalMan, but:

18" is fine

DON'T angle it up. Angle it sideways just enough to avoid the shadow while reading - you obviously missed Tom Huffman's post about keeping it in the vertical plane

full field

The meter should ONLY read the pattern

Either 75 or 100 but keep it constant

Thanks, just read through the calibration guide (again) on CurtPalme and noticed they wanted 3-4" away from the screen. Thanks for the sideways angle adjustment as I read it the opposite way thinking I had to keep the meter in a verticle adjustment not horizontal.
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post #370 of 1402 Old 08-10-2011, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by npc2396 View Post

Thanks, just read through the calibration guide (again) on CurtPalme and noticed they wanted 3-4" away from the screen. Thanks for the sideways angle adjustment as I read it the opposite way thinking I had to keep the meter in a verticle adjustment not horizontal.

If the environment is dark there is no need to snuggle the meter up that close.

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post #371 of 1402 Old 08-10-2011, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

I checked the options today and they were 1, 2, 3, and 4 seconds, meaning the meter was already at its fastest setting to begin with. I wonder if the meter can actually read faster than 1 second but CalMAN intentionally increases exposure time to 1 second for better consistency and/or to give the C6 an advantage in this regard. Any thoughts on this matter? It's not like 1 second is slow, it just seems not as fast as initial reports indicated.

Is the indicated reading time accurate? I ask because if I set my C5 to a 4 second reading, it actually takes 8 seconds, 2 takes 4 seconds, etc.
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post #372 of 1402 Old 08-10-2011, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by npc2396 View Post

Thanks, just read through the calibration guide (again) on CurtPalme and noticed they wanted 3-4" away from the screen. Thanks for the sideways angle adjustment as I read it the opposite way thinking I had to keep the meter in a verticle adjustment not horizontal.

I've only done one front projector and I think I screwed up. It appears that windows patterns are the correct way due to APL so it would apply to all types of displays....

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post #373 of 1402 Old 08-10-2011, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad B View Post

Is the indicated reading time accurate? I ask because if I set my C5 to a 4 second reading, it actually takes 8 seconds, 2 takes 4 seconds, etc.

It seems about right, though 100% gray always takes a bit longer (maybe because it's used to calculate gamma).
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post #374 of 1402 Old 08-10-2011, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
It seems about right, though 100% gray always takes a bit longer (maybe because it's used to calculate gamma).
Thanks for that info! That's encouraging to me because it was one reason I have been a little disappointed with my C5.
I have a C6 on order.
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post #375 of 1402 Old 08-10-2011, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Chad B View Post
Thanks for that info! That's encouraging to me because it was one reason I have been a little disappointed with my C5.
I have a C6 on order.
I just double checked and discovered the following... It takes 1 second for the lower half of the grayscale and two for the upper half of the grayscale. It seems my initial post was a bit off.
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post #376 of 1402 Old 08-10-2011, 09:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
Is the default exposure time of 1 second the best setting for the OEM i1 Display?
Have you learned anything further about the exposure times and accuracy? You had noted that the options include 1-4 seconds and that the default is set to 1 second. What benefit is there to be gained by setting it at 2, 3, or 4 seconds?
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post #377 of 1402 Old 08-11-2011, 03:22 AM
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In theory, longer integration times should provide more consistent (and more precise) readings (think about it like a 4s mode averages 4 different 1s readings) but it doesn't always mean those readings are more accurate.
I don't know how this new sensor works with CalMan but if it's really an integration time (a hardware setting) for a single reading (not not just an averaging of more measurements with the same hardware mode) then colors may get over-saturated with too long integration times.

I suggest you to measure 100% Green and 0% black patterns with both 1s and 4s four times.
The difference between 1s and 4s averaged readings should be close to the difference between the four 1s and four 4s readings alone.

"DIY certified hobby-calibrator" (based on ChadB's "warning signs" list
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post #378 of 1402 Old 08-11-2011, 07:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Razz1 View Post

Have you learned anything further about the exposure times and accuracy? You had noted that the options include 1-4 seconds and that the default is set to 1 second. What benefit is there to be gained by setting it at 2, 3, or 4 seconds?

You should check this thread on the CalMAN forum.
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post #379 of 1402 Old 08-12-2011, 12:50 AM
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I just got mine today. Hopefully will have some time to play around with it this weekend, but inlaw in town, so probably not be able to...
One question I have though is, should I profile this against CM, or just use "as-is"?
Also, heard that we need to keep this on the horizontal plane.. (i.e. no tilt up, like I use to on the i1D2). Is this correct?
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post #380 of 1402 Old 08-12-2011, 03:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fight4yu View Post

I just got mine today. Hopefully will have some time to play around with it this weekend, but inlaw in town, so probably not be able to...
One question I have though is, should I profile this against CM, or just use "as-is"?
Also, heard that we need to keep this on the horizontal plane.. (i.e. no tilt up, like I use to on the i1D2). Is this correct?

Fight,

If you have time do it both ways, to see what comes out better.
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post #381 of 1402 Old 08-12-2011, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by avsform1 View Post

Fight,

If you have time do it both ways, to see what comes out better.

I don't mind doing both ways, but the problem is, without a "real reference", I will not know which is more accurate.
Gee.. maybe I really need to save up for the i1PRO
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post #382 of 1402 Old 08-12-2011, 11:17 AM
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as accurate as the i1 Display Pro is, I'd consider the i1 Pro another data point and not a reference source.

Joel Barsotti
SpectraCal
CalMAN Lead Developer
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post #383 of 1402 Old 08-12-2011, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by sotti View Post

as accurate as the i1 Display Pro is, I'd consider the i1 Pro another data point and not a reference source.

Hmm.. but would you at least go by saying i1PRO is more accurate than CM?
What about accuracy comparison between CM and i1D3?
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post #384 of 1402 Old 08-12-2011, 12:26 PM
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Has anyone used the OEM i1 Display on a DLP rear projection set?

I recieved my meter ealier this week from spectraCal and I'm having trouble getting it to read things correctly with my DLP. It seems to work fine on a LCD TV.

With the DLP the reading are all over the place. For example when I take multiple color temp readings the 1st might read something like 4578.123, the 2nd 6345.634, 3rd off scale at 341564.345 and so on. This happens with all measurments. One read may seem about right then the next will be way off. When measuring greyscale I may get 1 or 3 readings ok then next reading will show any thing from no bars to only a red bar way off scale or red and green off scale, etc.

Also each reading, no matter the chart, takes 6 to 10 seconds to complete. That seems a little slow to me.

I have tried several different settings with no luck. Anyone have any ideas on this?

Oh, I also tried my Spyder meter and it works fine.

Thanks,
Mike
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post #385 of 1402 Old 08-12-2011, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fight4yu View Post

Hmm.. but would you at least go by saying i1PRO is more accurate than CM?
What about accuracy comparison between CM and i1D3?

The older Spectro based ColorMunki?

The i1 Pro and Colormunki are very similar, the i1Pro is of course more accurate, better long term, especially more accurate in reflectance mode. But for use calibration displays, I wouldn't say it's significantly more accurate, but it is without a doubt more accurate.

Joel Barsotti
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post #386 of 1402 Old 08-12-2011, 02:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

The older Spectro based ColorMunki?

The i1 Pro and Colormunki are very similar, the i1Pro is of course more accurate, better long term, especially more accurate in reflectance mode. But for use calibration displays, I wouldn't say it's significantly more accurate, but it is without a doubt more accurate.

Yup. The spectro-CM [really hate that they use the same name for both spectro and tristim one].

So, I should still profile my i1D3 against the CM then?
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post #387 of 1402 Old 08-12-2011, 02:23 PM
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I have a question about the value of accuracy of the OEM versus calibrated PRO version.

Does a typical lamp driven digital display like the JVC or Sony line shift by more than the increased accuracy of the PRO meter in say 50 hours?
Or more specifically, about how long (a SWAG is fine) will a projector hold its calibration to within the accuracy increase of the PRO meter?

I am not going to be constantly recalibrating my projector because of changes due to bulb aging but maybe every 50 to 100 hours. If the aging of the bulb shifts the color by more than the regular i1 Display accuracy of ~0.006 (what I read here somewhere) in 40-50 hours then I don't see a need for me personally to get the PRO version as the increased accuracy results are quite fleeting.
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post #388 of 1402 Old 08-12-2011, 02:49 PM - Thread Starter
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If the bulb shifts then an accurate meter will measure the shift and you can recalibrate accordingly. I don't see the connection between a bulb's aging and the accuracy of the meter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Anstey View Post
I have a question about the value of accuracy of the OEM versus calibrated PRO version.

Does a typical lamp driven digital display like the JVC or Sony line shift by more than the increased accuracy of the PRO meter in say 50 hours?
Or more specifically, about how long (a SWAG is fine) will a projector hold its calibration to within the accuracy increase of the PRO meter?

I am not going to be constantly recalibrating my projector because of changes due to bulb aging but maybe every 50 to 100 hours. If the aging of the bulb shifts the color by more than the regular i1 Display accuracy of ~0.006 (what I read here somewhere) in 40-50 hours then I don't see a need for me personally to get the PRO version as the increased accuracy results are quite fleeting.

Tom Huffman
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post #389 of 1402 Old 08-12-2011, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Anstey View Post
I have a question about the value of accuracy of the OEM versus calibrated PRO version.

Does a typical lamp driven digital display like the JVC or Sony line shift by more than the increased accuracy of the PRO meter in say 50 hours?
Or more specifically, about how long (a SWAG is fine) will a projector hold its calibration to within the accuracy increase of the PRO meter?

I am not going to be constantly recalibrating my projector because of changes due to bulb aging but maybe every 50 to 100 hours. If the aging of the bulb shifts the color by more than the regular i1 Display accuracy of ~0.006 (what I read here somewhere) in 40-50 hours then I don't see a need for me personally to get the PRO version as the increased accuracy results are quite fleeting.
Hmm.. every 40-50 hrs is quite frequent... I would certainly not hope it will drift that much.
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post #390 of 1402 Old 08-12-2011, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post
If the bulb shifts then an accurate meter will measure the shift and you can recalibrate accordingly. I don't see the connection between a bulb's aging and the accuracy of the meter.
I believe what he's asking is, "Does the average projector bulb's spectral output shift within 50 hours of use, to an amount greater than the accuracy/standard deviation of the meter?", because if the bulb's shift is less than the meter's accuracy, there is no need for a more accurate meter (for him) as he only recalibrates at those intervals.


Max
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