X-Rite's Revolutionary New Colorimeter - Page 17 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #481 of 1402 Old 08-22-2011, 10:46 AM
Member
 
grishi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 39
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTVChallenged View Post

Learning curve ... the first one is always a ***** . Once you figure out the quirks of a model, the next one goes much faster.

This is totally the truth. Im learning to calibrate and I still have a long long way to go before I nail it with the VT30.

But I am enjoying the experience.
grishi is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #482 of 1402 Old 08-22-2011, 10:49 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
buzzard767's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Naples, FL & Wausau, WI
Posts: 5,907
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1660 Post(s)
Liked: 2438
Quote:
Originally Posted by grishi View Post

This is totally the truth. Im learning to calibrate and I still have a long long way to go before I nail it with the VT30.

But I am enjoying the experience.

The VT30 is no display to be "learning" on. You'll learn to be frustrated.

I'll be doing my first VT30 with ControlCal in a few days. I'll let y'all know how long it takes to calibrate one mode for one input.

Buzz
THX Certified Level II Video Calibrator



 
buzzard767 is offline  
post #483 of 1402 Old 08-22-2011, 10:56 AM
Member
 
grishi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 39
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

The VT30 is no display to be "learning" on. You'll learn to be frustrated.

I'll be doing my first VT30 with ControlCal in a few days. I'll let y'all know how long it takes to calibrate one mode for one input.

ControlCal is awesome. I would definitely be kicking myself without it.
grishi is offline  
 
post #484 of 1402 Old 08-22-2011, 04:10 PM
Member
 
Ozark_VR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 104
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Not sure if this has been followed up on, but on another site, a product manager with xrite updated this information Tom quoted on this website: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/re...play_pro.shtml

Quote:


X-Rite Product Manager Steve Rankin posted the following on the ColorSync list Aug 19, 2011.


As the product manager for our Display Solutions at X-Rite, let me try to clarify a few things regarding OEM and 3rd party developer support for our new i1D3 based colorimeters. There seems to be lot's of confusion here. First and foremost, X-Rite absolutely does allow OEMs and 3rd party developers access to our i1Display Pro retail instruments. Karl Koch already mentioned it here on the ColorSync List that BasICColor will support our retail product and I now have permission from Eizo to announce that a soon to be released version of ColorNavigator software will also support our retail i1Display Pro device. In addition, while I cannot mention their names, I can tell you that there are more OEMs & developers currently working on integrating our channel device into their software solutions. So, for any other OEMs or third party developers that wish to also support our retail i1Display Pro device, please contact devsupport@xrite.com and ask for our i1Display Pro License Request Form. Second, regarding support of OEM versions of i1D3, this is not an X-Rite issue at all. Any software developer who wishes to support an OEM version of the i1D3 device must contact and obtain this ability from that OEM. I hope this clarifies things for all.





Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post

I just had a lengthy discussion with X-Rite, and here's what I learned.
  • There are actually 3 versions of this meter--ColorMunki, i1 Display Pro III retail, and an i1 Display Pro III OEM.
  • The ColorMunki and Display Pro retail are for the retail market only and are designed to work with the included X-Rite software for monitor profiling.
  • The retail versions will NOT function in ChromaPure or any other vendor's software other than X-Rite. Only the OEM version will work because the code in ChromaPure includes a password for enabling it.
  • The retail and OEM versions of the i1 Display Pro are otherwise identical.
  • If you want to use this meter with ChromaPure, then you have to obtain the meter from ChromaPure directly, one of my partners (e.g. AVS), or another OEM vendor. Versions of this meter obtained in the retail market will not work.
This is why some in the U.K. got meters before I did. What they have are apparently the retail versions, which, if I understood this correctly, won't even work with ChromaPure. The OEM meters won't be released for another 3 weeks or so yet.

I hope this clarifies things.

Ozark_VR is offline  
post #485 of 1402 Old 08-22-2011, 05:05 PM
Member
 
grcass's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 30
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:


X-Rite Product Manager Steve Rankin posted the following on the ColorSync list Aug 19, 2011.
First and foremost, X-Rite absolutely does allow OEMs and 3rd party developers access to our i1Display Pro retail instruments

Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post

The retail versions will NOT function in ChromaPure or any other vendor's software other than X-Rite.

I'm confused

Quote:


X-Rite Product Manager Steve Rankin posted the following on the ColorSync list Aug 19, 2011.
So, for any other OEMs or third party developers that wish to also support our retail i1Display Pro device, please contact devsupport@xrite.com and ask for our i1Display Pro License Request Form.

So is it just a case of ChromaPure obtaining a retail license?
grcass is offline  
post #486 of 1402 Old 08-22-2011, 05:42 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ConnecTEDDD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 5,436
Mentioned: 55 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1671 Post(s)
Liked: 2081
I saw this at another forum, It's a msg from Tom Lianza, the Chair of the ICC and Director of Advanced Development R&D at X-rite.

Interesting for SpectraCAL C6, as he mentioned that X-Rite can apply manufacturing differences by request.

I hope SpectraCAL will give us more details to these hardware changes soon.

Quote:


OEM products. When an OEM purchases a product from us, it is their
product. There may be manufacturing differences, there may be firmware
differences. Most important, X-rite cannot make a change to the product
without specific agreement with the OEM. We can, and often do, make changes
in the retail line of products. OEMs make specific volume commitments and
often invest a significant amount of R&D and supply chain cost to implement
the product in their product line. They also service the product. Some
display vendors put the calibration software in the display. They have
every right to insist on absolute customization. When I designed the Sony
Artisan hardware I had to use a completely different strategy for
suppression of static because their standards exceeded the FCC and European
standards of the time. We also had to re-engineer the cable so that the
insulation could be physically consumed. This required a change in the
production techniques of the cable and very specific testing for impurities.
OEM's invest heavily in their products and they need to protect that
investment. They are not screwing the consumer. Comments like that
indicate a total ignorance of the position that OEM's are in.


Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
ConnecTEDDD is offline  
post #487 of 1402 Old 08-22-2011, 06:51 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
TomHuffman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Springfield, MO
Posts: 7,523
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 782 Post(s)
Liked: 667
Quote:
Originally Posted by grcass View Post

I'm confused

So am I.

Tom Huffman
ChromaPure Software/AccuPel Video Signal Generators
ISF/THX Calibrations
Springfield, MO

TomHuffman is offline  
post #488 of 1402 Old 08-22-2011, 08:36 PM
Member
 
Ozark_VR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 104
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Well, I certainly hope this is the case and that it would also mean the colormunki display will be covered.... I wouldn't mind seeing more support from 3rd party programs as saving the $80 on the slower meter would go a good ways towards software purchases. I couldn't imagine that xrite would block support on the retail version for 3rd party software and not on (typically cheaper) the OEM version. Fewer people would buy their product if no 3rd party vendors supported x-rites new hardware.
Ozark_VR is offline  
post #489 of 1402 Old 08-22-2011, 08:49 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Kilgore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Huntsville Ontario
Posts: 3,844
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 728 Post(s)
Liked: 435
I wonder how many Display LT's were sold by X-rite compared to Display 2's? Once people discovered that the hardware was the same and could be used with ColorHCFR, ChromaPure and CalMan, Display LT's probably went through the roof.
Kilgore is offline  
post #490 of 1402 Old 08-23-2011, 02:13 AM
Advanced Member
 
PE06MCG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: West Yorkshire, UK
Posts: 729
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilgore View Post

I wonder how many Display LT's were sold by X-rite compared to Display 2's? Once people discovered that the hardware was the same and could be used with ColorHCFR, ChromaPure and CalMan, Display LT's probably went through the roof.

Well I certainly bought a Lite version which several years later is still going strong. Not sure if it is accurate but it gives acceptable readings to me that are reproduceable.

Still cannot understand why the latest OEM version is so much more expensive than the Retail version.
In other industries OEM means Original Equipment Manufacturer so they are all made at the same source.

Unless I misunderstand the ''process'', the distributer of the OEM model seems to buy them from Xrite then charges a large premium to the software people just in case they need to be serviced yet Xrite can add 3rd party software adsorb servicing costs and still offer a ''trade in'' special price to their Retail version and still make a profit.

http://www.nativedigital.com/xrite-i...-pro-trade-in/

Or perhaps the OEM sells some to Xrite and some to the new vendors ? Either way there appears to be extra volume which usually means reduced costs.

Is there any wonder that we are not necessarily convinced by Mr Tom Lianza's indignant reply (see previous post by ConnecTEDDD).

Perhaps I have missed something?
PE06MCG is offline  
post #491 of 1402 Old 08-23-2011, 10:34 AM
Member
 
AV-Freak's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 140
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
They want to make money.

It's more profitable for them to sell you the software and the hardware - so they can make profit on both.
AV-Freak is offline  
post #492 of 1402 Old 08-23-2011, 10:46 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Wetumpka, AL
Posts: 17,404
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1701 Post(s)
Liked: 731
Does anyone know if the receptor inside of the i1 Display 3 is cadmium sulfied or silicone blue cell?
JimP is online now  
post #493 of 1402 Old 08-23-2011, 11:43 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Rolls-Royce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Victorville, CA
Posts: 2,734
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 361 Post(s)
Liked: 534
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV-Freak View Post

They want to make money.

It's more profitable for them to sell you the software and the hardware - so they can make profit on both.

Make that "They HAVE to make money". Otherwise, there are no updates, bugfixes, new hardware support, etc. For an example, look at HCFR. Free is a neat idea, but there hasn't been an update in about 2 years. And support for at least one popular meter that existed back then--let alone anything new like the D3-- is still incomplete.

I'd be willing to bet that the OEMs' agreement with X-Rite includes shifting of most or all hardware support and warranty costs to the OEMs. When you are selling small volumes, these costs can have a disproportionate impact on your bottom line.

Add in development costs to build support for the new meter into existing software, and you begin to see why the OEM meters are more expensive. In this case, "OEM" doesn't mean "bare" or "white box" like it does with computer hardware and software.

...Royce...

"I never drink...wine."
Bela Lugosi, DRACULA, 1931
Rolls-Royce is offline  
post #494 of 1402 Old 08-23-2011, 12:12 PM
Advanced Member
 
PE06MCG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: West Yorkshire, UK
Posts: 729
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolls-Royce View Post

Make that "They HAVE to make money". Otherwise, there are no updates, bugfixes, new hardware support, etc. For an example, look at HCFR. Free is a neat idea, but there hasn't been an update in about 2 years. And support for at least one popular meter that existed back then--let alone anything new like the D3-- is still incomplete.

I'd be willing to bet that the OEMs' agreement with X-Rite includes shifting of most or all hardware support and warranty costs to the OEMs. When you are selling small volumes, these costs can have a disproportionate impact on your bottom line.

Add in development costs to build support for the new meter into existing software, and you begin to see why the OEM meters are more expensive. In this case, "OEM" doesn't mean "bare" or "white box" like it does with computer hardware and software.

Chromapure and Spectral are not free but are a supplementary cost to the hardware.
It is the cost of the hardware I question, particularly as Xrite seem to be able to sell the full package much more cheaply and also make money to cover the costs you rightly detail..

Incidentally what does OEM mean if not ''Original Equipment Manufacturer'' ?
PE06MCG is offline  
post #495 of 1402 Old 08-23-2011, 12:20 PM
Oppo Beta Group
 
RichB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 10,260
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1266 Post(s)
Liked: 851
Quote:
Originally Posted by PE06MCG View Post

Incidentally what does OEM mean if not ''Original Equipment Manufacturer'' ?

Exactly. This is a very confusing use of the term.
Obviously, both are manufactured by X-Rite.
Perhaps the "Retail" versus the "Reseller" version is less confusing.

- Rich

Oppo UPD-205 | Sonica DAC | BDP-105D | HA-1 | PM-1 | Emotiva XMC-1 | ATI Signature AT6002 x 2 + AT6006 | Revel Salon2s, Voice2, Studio2s | Velodyne HGS-15 | LG 65C7 | Lumagen 2020
RichB is online now  
post #496 of 1402 Old 08-23-2011, 12:32 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Wetumpka, AL
Posts: 17,404
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1701 Post(s)
Liked: 731
Quote:
Originally Posted by PE06MCG View Post


It is the cost of the hardware I question, particularly as Xrite seem to be able to sell the full package much more cheaply and also make money to cover the costs you rightly detail..

Incidentally what does OEM mean if not ''Original Equipment Manufacturer'' ?

I stay confused about the whole OEM thing.

I don't have issues with any of the software companies providing value added to these meters. I'd rather have a meter that I can send off and get a new calibration file than one that I have to throw away and rebuy every time it drifts.

I do think there is a trick in getting these meters to keep their calibration longer. Not sure if its to keep it away from the heat or removing it from a bright pattern as soon as possible but its got to be something. Has anyone heard anything on this topic?
JimP is online now  
post #497 of 1402 Old 08-23-2011, 12:34 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Wetumpka, AL
Posts: 17,404
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1701 Post(s)
Liked: 731
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

Exactly. This is a very confusing use of the term.
Obviously, both are manufactured by X-Rite.
Perhaps the "Retail" versus the "Reseller" version is less confusing.

- Rich

....or OEM versus value added version.
JimP is online now  
post #498 of 1402 Old 08-23-2011, 12:43 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
gtgray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,779
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 226 Post(s)
Liked: 146
In the computer reseller world we used to use the term VAR for Value Added Reseller. A VAR was somebody usually a software developer that bundled OEM pieces together often included specialiazed software and brought a special expertise to the productm aking it more and better in some way.

Samsung 78" JS8600, Mits WD-92840 43" Samsung 43ku7000 - Lumagen Radiance XS, Martin Logan Motion 40s, Ascend Sierra 2s
58" Panny Plasma -DVDO DUO, Usher S520, JBL HLS-610, Definitive SM45, MusicHall Marimba
gtgray is offline  
post #499 of 1402 Old 08-23-2011, 01:37 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Rolls-Royce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Victorville, CA
Posts: 2,734
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 361 Post(s)
Liked: 534
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

Exactly. This is a very confusing use of the term.
Obviously, both are manufactured by X-Rite.
Perhaps the "Retail" versus the "Reseller" version is less confusing.

- Rich

Agreed. I'm for "Retail" and "Reseller".

...Royce...

"I never drink...wine."
Bela Lugosi, DRACULA, 1931
Rolls-Royce is offline  
post #500 of 1402 Old 08-23-2011, 01:46 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
sotti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 7,025
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 331 Post(s)
Liked: 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

I stay confused about the whole OEM thing.

I don't have issues with any of the software companies providing value added to these meters. I'd rather have a meter that I can send off and get a new calibration file than one that I have to throw away and rebuy every time it drifts.

I do think there is a trick in getting these meters to keep their calibration longer. Not sure if its to keep it away from the heat or removing it from a bright pattern as soon as possible but its got to be something. Has anyone heard anything on this topic?

One of the best ways to keep meter accuracy is to keep it away from humidity.
That means storing it in an air tight container with descant.
sotti is offline  
post #501 of 1402 Old 08-23-2011, 01:59 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Rolls-Royce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Victorville, CA
Posts: 2,734
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 361 Post(s)
Liked: 534
Quote:
Originally Posted by PE06MCG View Post
It is the cost of the hardware I question, particularly as Xrite seem to be able to sell the full package much more cheaply and also make money to cover the costs you rightly detail..
I wouldn't necessarily call the retail boxed version a "full package" either. If the software included is I1Match, it is limited to producing monitor profiles by the capabilities of the meter. For HT, you can use it to set brightness and contrast and do a bare-bones whitepoint setting. No CMS, gamma, or other things we hold as being important to PQ.

I'm also thinking that the resellers of the OEM meters are probably paying higher per-unit costs. Their orders are probably much smaller than those from internet places like the Big River and the various online computer software and hardware sellers, so they don't get the same volume discounts. Retailers also aren't paying licensing for the SDK for these meters as the OEM meter resellers are.

...Royce...

"I never drink...wine."
Bela Lugosi, DRACULA, 1931
Rolls-Royce is offline  
post #502 of 1402 Old 08-23-2011, 04:57 PM
Member
 
grcass's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 30
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
From what I've picked up on in this thread, the ChromPure developers initially expected the retail version to work with their software. Around the time that the retail version was released they found out that it did not work. Subsequently the ChromaPure developers were told by x-rite that only the OEM version will work. However, as Ozark_VR pointed out, X-Rite Product Manager Steve Rankin posted on the ColorSync list Aug 19, 2011 that "X-Rite absolutely does allow OEMs and 3rd party developers access to our i1Display Pro retail instruments" and "OEMs or third party developers that wish to also support our retail i1Display Pro device, please contact devsupport@xrite.com and ask for our “i1Display Pro License Request Form”."

So it seems there has been a lot of confusion regarding Licencing etc. Hopefully now ChromaPure will get the required licence to allow the retail version to work with their software.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AV-Freak View Post
They want to make money.

It's more profitable for them to sell you the software and the hardware - so they can make profit on both.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolls-Royce View Post
Make that "They HAVE to make money". Otherwise, there are no updates, bugfixes, new hardware support, etc. ...
The ChromaPure business model requires the purchase of an additional meter licence when adding a meter to ChromaPure Standard software. I believe this model was chosen to help cover the costs of "updates, bugfixes, new hardware support, etc." (as well as generate income of coarse). ChromaPure developers have not intentionally locked out non "OEM" meters in the past and they have made it clear that they will not intentionally lock them out in the future.
Cheers
Gary.
grcass is offline  
post #503 of 1402 Old 08-23-2011, 07:04 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
TomHuffman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Springfield, MO
Posts: 7,523
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 782 Post(s)
Liked: 667
This situation with the OEM vs. retail meters is 100% an X-Rite issue. I am still awaiting clarification from them. There is apparently some internal debate and/or miscommunication within the company over this. When I get an official (and I hope final) word on whether we can or can't support the retail version of the i1 Display Pro III, I'll provide that information. As of now, I just don't know.

Tom Huffman
ChromaPure Software/AccuPel Video Signal Generators
ISF/THX Calibrations
Springfield, MO

TomHuffman is offline  
post #504 of 1402 Old 08-23-2011, 08:01 PM
Member
 
Alec246's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 94
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Any chance if a ColorMunki Display would also be supported? That's the one I have ordered from X-Rite. If you get the Retail to work with your software, I bet you're going to get a LOT more customers, including myself
Alec246 is offline  
post #505 of 1402 Old 08-24-2011, 02:06 AM
Advanced Member
 
PE06MCG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: West Yorkshire, UK
Posts: 729
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolls-Royce View Post

I wouldn't necessarily call the retail boxed version a "full package" either. If the software included is I1Match, it is limited to producing monitor profiles by the capabilities of the meter. For HT, you can use it to set brightness and contrast and do a bare-bones whitepoint setting. No CMS, gamma, or other things we hold as being important to PQ.

I'm also thinking that the resellers of the OEM meters are probably paying higher per-unit costs. Their orders are probably much smaller than those from internet places like the Big River and the various online computer software and hardware sellers, so they don't get the same volume discounts. Retailers also aren't paying licensing for the SDK for these meters as the OEM meter resellers are.

The Retail version software may be good , bad or indifferent the fact remains it is bundled free by Xrite in the Retail version but useless to us.

The hardware as far as I know is identical in the OEM to the Retail with possible firmware changes but surely the licence agreement that Xrite are now inviting interested parties to sign up to will cover this?

I have paid for and use Chromapure Pro with my current meter and am delighted with the ease of use and value for money.

Why do Xrite, its manufacturers (got to assume its not a copy) or hardware distributers charge so much more for the OED to the retailers?

I would question your volume argument because I bought my original Display 2Lt from a retailer who is now reporting back to Xrite why he cannot sell as many new meters as predicted.
In other words we make up a much larger preportion of the total market than they realised.

I do not have any 'market mix' figures but I'm sure Tom and Ricky (in Uk) would love to sell the Retail version or the OEM at a comparable price because their sales would increase 10 fold ( I would buy one immediately).

Incidentally, the sales of my original retailer would also increase so perhaps it would be to everyones advantage including incidentally Xrite.
PE06MCG is offline  
post #506 of 1402 Old 08-24-2011, 09:58 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Smackrabbit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Portland, OR, USA
Posts: 1,009
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 120 Post(s)
Liked: 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolls-Royce View Post

I wouldn't necessarily call the retail boxed version a "full package" either. If the software included is I1Match, it is limited to producing monitor profiles by the capabilities of the meter. For HT, you can use it to set brightness and contrast and do a bare-bones whitepoint setting. No CMS, gamma, or other things we hold as being important to PQ.

But many of us also would like to color correct our computer displays as well, and i1Match does a good job of this. It also has added some nice features like screen uniformity testing that I'd like to use, but unfortunately X-Rite has locked out my OEM i1 Display Pro from being able to use it. Until I get an i1Pro, I'll be stuck using my older i1D2 for monitor calibration instead of my new meter.

Chris Heinonen
Staff Writer, The Wirecutter, a NY Times Company
Founder/Editor, ReferenceHomeTheater.com
ISF Level II Certified Calibrator
Previously: Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity, AnandTech.com, HDGuru.com and Electronic House
Smackrabbit is offline  
post #507 of 1402 Old 08-24-2011, 11:26 AM
Member
 
AV-Freak's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 140
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
By the way all new X-Rite products come with iProfiler - iMatch is dead.
AV-Freak is offline  
post #508 of 1402 Old 08-24-2011, 11:42 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Rolls-Royce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Victorville, CA
Posts: 2,734
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 361 Post(s)
Liked: 534
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV-Freak View Post

By the way all new X-Rite products come with iProfiler - iMatch is dead.

I recently got Profiler for my I1 Pro, and as far as I can tell it's essentially a spruced-up version of I1Match. A little easier to use, seems to do a better job than Match, but still is aimed at creating ICC profiles. It has the shortcomings for HT (non-HTPC) use that Match did.

...Royce...

"I never drink...wine."
Bela Lugosi, DRACULA, 1931
Rolls-Royce is offline  
post #509 of 1402 Old 08-24-2011, 11:52 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Rolls-Royce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Victorville, CA
Posts: 2,734
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 361 Post(s)
Liked: 534
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smackrabbit View Post

But many of us also would like to color correct our computer displays as well, and i1Match does a good job of this. It also has added some nice features like screen uniformity testing that I'd like to use, but unfortunately X-Rite has locked out my OEM i1 Display Pro from being able to use it. Until I get an i1Pro, I'll be stuck using my older i1D2 for monitor calibration instead of my new meter.

Hi, Chris. As you probably already know, this isn't exactly a new thing for X-Rite or its predecessor GMB. The OEM'ed i1 Pro I bought a few years ago also was incapable of using i1Match as shipped, but I purchased a license key from X-Rite that was used with i1Diagnostics to unlock the meter for use with i1Match (and now i1Profiler) to profile monitors. Luckily the more expensive spectro allowed for "upgrades" like this, but I sincerely doubt the new i1DP/D3 will have that capability. For those of us who use CalMAN, there is a computer monitor profiling add-on that allows the OEMed i1DP to be used for that task.

...Royce...

"I never drink...wine."
Bela Lugosi, DRACULA, 1931
Rolls-Royce is offline  
post #510 of 1402 Old 08-24-2011, 12:24 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Rolls-Royce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Victorville, CA
Posts: 2,734
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 361 Post(s)
Liked: 534
Quote:
Originally Posted by PE06MCG View Post

The hardware as far as I know is identical in the OEM to the Retail with possible firmware changes but surely the licence agreement that Xrite are now inviting interested parties to sign up to will cover this?

I would question your volume argument because I bought my original Display 2Lt from a retailer who is now reporting back to Xrite why he cannot sell as many new meters as predicted.
In other words we make up a much larger preportion of the total market than they realised.

I do not have any 'market mix' figures but I'm sure Tom and Ricky (in Uk) would love to sell the Retail version or the OEM at a comparable price because their sales would increase 10 fold ( I would buy one immediately).

Incidentally, the sales of my original retailer would also increase so perhaps it would be to everyones advantage including incidentally Xrite.

A posting on another forum indicates that there is a bit more to the X-Rite "invitation" than meets the eye. Although anyone can apply to obtain X-Rite's permission, keys, and SDK to develop apps for the Retail meter, X-Rite has been extremely selective in approving them and so far only 1 or 2 third-party developers have been announced. The program is also costly to buy into: X-Rite does not sell its licenses for a song, as I learned when I purchased a monitor profiling key for my i1Pro a few years ago.

When I referred to "volume", I meant the size of orders the seller is making from X-Rite, not necessarily meters actually being sold to users. Big River may order the same number of meters at one time as ChromaPure or SpectraCal, or they may order more. But I submit that the potential for follow-on orders of the same size or larger is greater with the mass-marketer than for those companies selling to a more limited market such as HT enthusiasts who want to calibrate their displays themselves.

Your retailer's having to explain lower-than-expected sales doesn't necessarily lead to the conclusion that HT enthusiasts are a bigger proportion of the sales for the new meter than anticipated. He may have had to do so in order to maintain any discount he's getting from X-Rite or its distributor in your area. Also, many companies keep a close eye on sales numbers from their "authorized" dealers. If sales drop and dealer inventories remain high, it could lead to overt or covert price cutting by the dealers, which is seen as a weakening of the brand's value. That would lead to pressure on the manufacturer to lower its prices, which it doesn't want to do.

...Royce...

"I never drink...wine."
Bela Lugosi, DRACULA, 1931
Rolls-Royce is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Display Calibration

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off