Calman vs Chromapure - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 50 Old 08-23-2011, 05:10 AM - Thread Starter
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CalMAN Entry Level Calibration Package
Vs
EyeOne Display 3 PRO with ChromaPure Standard

Both running the new eye one display 3

I know that these have been compared before. Since both are using the new eye one display 3 and have made some changes I was hoping to get the input of those using each as to, why they went with who they did, and what they think. I am trying to decide which one to go with. The cost difference is about $180.00 What's the good and bad of both and what are you all finding out? Not that it matter but I have a Samsung 64d7000

Thanks for the info
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post #2 of 50 Old 08-23-2011, 05:45 AM
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I recommend ChromaPure Standard with the new Display 3 Pro meter. The non-Pro meter will not be accurate with most LCD displays without profiling from a reference meter. ChromaPure is a straight forward calibration program with a logical sequence, easy to understand graphs in each module, and produces excellent reports. Also, support is free.

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post #3 of 50 Old 08-23-2011, 05:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks that is a good info.
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post #4 of 50 Old 08-24-2011, 12:20 PM
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Be careful if purchasing the meter and software from separate sources... some of the meters have multiple versions (same meter under the skin, but different identifiers in the firmware) and some of these meters may not work with various software calibration packages even though they are all essentially the same meter.

I think CalMAN has AT LEAST as many positives as ChromaPure. And the large number of CalMAN users and public support forums makes support issues fairly simple. I don't think many enthusiast users will have need for support, other than learning how to calibrate which can be done here via the Calibration For Dummies thread.

If you already have the meter, you'll need to find out from both Spectracal/CalMAN and Chromapure if the model you have (and where you got it) is supported by their software.

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post #5 of 50 Old 08-24-2011, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Blackburn View Post

I think CalMAN has AT LEAST as many positives as ChromaPure.

Maybe more for professional calibrators since the program can be tailored to suit your needs. But for the beginner Chromapure is probably less confusing and more straightforward to use.

Used competently either program will render beautiful results.

As to support, I've never had an issue getting answers from Tom (even on a weekend!) and this forum is available as well.

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post #6 of 50 Old 08-24-2011, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geof View Post

Maybe more for professional calibrators since the program can be tailored to suit your needs. But for the beginner Chromapure is probably less confusing and more straightforward to use.

This might have been true in earlier versions of CalMAN, but CalMAN now has on screen help for every step along the way towards a calibration. They also have a tutorial (called Introduction) that explains all the screens and how they work throughout CalMAN. The Standard workflow explains every step. I don't see how they could make it any easier. IMO, if you can't follow these simple workflows with the help included in the program, maybe you shouldn't try calibrating. Even if you do get confused, the SpectraCal support forum is monitored by several SpectraCal employees as well as many other users who can answer your questions.

I don't mean to denigrate Chromapure, just defending CalMAN. I don't know much about Chromapure as I don't use it since it doesn't support a couple of my meters. I'm sure it is a great program.

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post #7 of 50 Old 08-24-2011, 06:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Citation4444 View Post

This might have been true in earlier versions of CalMAN, but CalMAN now has on screen help for every step along the way towards a calibration. They also have a tutorial (called Introduction) that explains all the screens and how they work throughout CalMAN. The Standard workflow explains every step. I don't see how they could make it any easier.

FYI, ChromaPure also has VERY extensive on screen help for every step from pre-calibration to post-calibration.

Just in case there's any misunderstanding...
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post #8 of 50 Old 08-25-2011, 05:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geof View Post

Maybe more for professional calibrators since the program can be tailored to suit your needs. But for the beginner Chromapure is probably less confusing and more straightforward to use.

Used competently either program will render beautiful results.

As to support, I've never had an issue getting answers from Tom (even on a weekend!) and this forum is available as well.

I agree. Chromapure is easy to use right out of the "box".
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post #9 of 50 Old 08-25-2011, 06:37 AM
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Last I looked there were real and significant differences between CP and Calman licensing terms. As a result I bought CP and although I have not followed licensing changes between the two since my purchase it may still be beneficial to understand the licensing differences.

FWIW, I would not let the lack of a CP user forum dissuade me: I've had NO support issues with Chromapure.

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post #10 of 50 Old 08-28-2011, 09:20 PM - Thread Starter
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It is sounding like both are very good programs. Thanks for the information i am going to get one or the other in the next week or so.
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post #11 of 50 Old 08-31-2011, 04:16 PM - Thread Starter
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So i know the Pro version of CP means the equipment has been adjusted more so then the standard from my understanding. This making it more accurate.

Is the calmans also adjusted or is it just as the standard version of cp?
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post #12 of 50 Old 08-31-2011, 05:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robkiller View Post
So i know the Pro version of CP means the equipment has been adjusted more so then the standard from my understanding. This making it more accurate.

Is the calmans also adjusted or is it just as the standard version of cp?
Which hardware are you referring to?

We do offer enhanced or recalibrated models of many different pieces of hardware.

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post #13 of 50 Old 09-01-2011, 12:20 PM
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I am a Calman user and find the system very easy to use although it looked daunting at first. Can't get my head round the create workflow feature though.

The autocal is substantially cheaper in CP and given I want this to get me 'most of the way there' I will be getting CP shortly.

I suspect Calman are watching very closely about the implentation of AC in CP and they may have to consider changing strategy to accomodate AC in the lower versions not just the commercial.

Competition, inevitable and good for the customer in my view
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post #14 of 50 Old 09-01-2011, 12:57 PM
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I am quite frustrated with SpectraCal at the moment. I prefer to stick with them because I own and am familiar with their software and I won't have to re-buy equivalent (for my needs) software. I want to upgrade my old enhanced (i.e. calibration tables) Spyder 3 that I got from SpectraCal but they offer me only two choices. Either get the Display3 OEM without calibration tables or spend a significantly larger amount to get the C6. I will just assume that the C6 is superior to a calibrated Display3 but I don't need something that good. I just want to take advantage of the repeatability of the Display3 to increase the accuracy of calibrations. I want them to sell a calibrated Display3, like they used to do with the Spyder3 and ChromaPure does now with the "Pro" model.

I haven't jumped to CP yet because I still hold out hope that SC will sell me what I want after the C6 is finally shipping. However if they continue to offer only two choices, I may have to pick the third choice. Times must be good when a company actively shuns a segment of the market.
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post #15 of 50 Old 09-01-2011, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Anstey View Post

I am quite frustrated with SpectraCal at the moment. I prefer to stick with them because I own and am familiar with their software and I won't have to re-buy equivalent (for my needs) software. I want to upgrade my old enhanced (i.e. calibration tables) Spyder 3 that I got from SpectraCal but they offer me only two choices. Either get the Display3 OEM without calibration tables or spend a significantly larger amount to get the C6. I will just assume that the C6 is superior to a calibrated Display3 but I don't need something that good. I just want to take advantage of the repeatability of the Display3 to increase the accuracy of calibrations. I want them to sell a calibrated Display3, like they used to do with the Spyder3 and ChromaPure does now with the "Pro" model.

I haven't jumped to CP yet because I still hold out hope that SC will sell me what I want after the C6 is finally shipping. However if they continue to offer only two choices, I may have to pick the third choice. Times must be good when a company actively shuns a segment of the market.

Our Display 3 does have correction tables, they are just the standard built in ones. Our Display 3 with correction tables is the C6. The C6 has some other goodies built in as well, weather those are things you place value on isn't something I can say, but others have seen the value in those extras.

Those extra's include a NIST certificate documenting the accuracy of the C6. The additional profiles that use the native XRite calibration techniques, which SpectraCal is the only vendor currently utilizing. A unique adaptive exposure mode that makes the meter perform at it's fastest modes when possible without giving up accuracy. The Tripod mount and carrying case. The NIST certificate, can be especially important for professionals as it's required for certain jobs.

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post #16 of 50 Old 09-01-2011, 02:08 PM
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I'm not saying that some people, most likely only professionals, don't find value in the C6. However for the advanced home user who wants better than out of the box OEM accuracy, the C6 is more than twice the price and there is a less expensive alternative. Why not simply offer the OEM with correction tables (a "pro" model) created against a spectrophotometer for the common displays for an extra $125-$150 and let those who value the C6 above that buy the C6? Even faster speed, NIST certificate, and carrying case are more valuable to someone doing this outside the home than a home user like myself.

I'm just saying there is value in offering something between the OEM D3 and C6 and there is a segment of the market that wants it and at least one vendor provides it. I am asking for it to be two vendors.
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post #17 of 50 Old 09-01-2011, 02:48 PM
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It appears to me that the speed advantage that the C6 has over the OEM version is partly due to Calman software crippling the performance of the OEM meter. For those who care, the speed of the OEM D3 appears to be much better with Chromapure.
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post #18 of 50 Old 09-01-2011, 03:43 PM
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Sotti. Pure and simple direct question. What exactly does NIST certification of the C6 mean? Spectracal is calibrating Display 3s and placing the corrections in a memory in the C6. Does Spectracal use a Tristimulus meter or a Spectroradiometer to generate the tables for each C6? Does the certification of the C6 merely mean that whatever instruments Spectracal uses were calibrated by NIST? Most expensive Spectroradiometers and Tristimulus devices come with a NIST certification. I know the meters used by Chromapure are NIST certified. What exactly is different with Spectrcal's NIST certification of the C6?

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post #19 of 50 Old 09-01-2011, 03:52 PM
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When we generate the tables for C6 we use X-Rite's native software and our CS2000 spectrophotometer.

The NIST certificate is a validation that we have measured and calibrated the performance of a meter in our NIST certified lab. It documents the equipment used in the calibration process as well as the ambient conditions. So the chain of calibration is certified and traceable. This means you can prove the accuracy of the meter and the source.

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post #20 of 50 Old 09-01-2011, 11:07 PM
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Thanks. So you are saying that NIST has certified your lab and that is where you measure and calibrate each C6 making its calibration NIST certified or traceable to NIST certification?

I really am not sure exactly what you mean. I thought that only the reference instrument would be NIST certified and then only if operated under certain environmental conditions obviously those conditions would have to be present when using the reference instrument to calibrate C6s.

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post #21 of 50 Old 09-05-2011, 08:35 AM
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Still no answer to my question. Exactly what do I get by buying a D3 that has been calibrated by using a reference quality calibrated instrument and comes with a NIST certificate vs one that does not come with such a certificate. Please somebody tell me this isn't just marketing BS as far as real life quality and accuracy is concerned with respect to a D3. And if for a professional, a contract requires using a NIST certified instrument, you better damn well not just be using a D3 unless you have calibrated it on the job for the display being calibrated and using a reference quality calibrated instrument.

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post #22 of 50 Old 09-06-2011, 02:23 AM - Thread Starter
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I think my question is similar to the above but yet not lol


I am wondering if the pro version of CP which claims

"We have developed a version of the Display 3, which we have named the Display 3 PRO, that offers substantially enhanced accuracy across a wide range of displays. "

Does CM also have that or something like it build in or are they similar to the non pro version of CP?

Also does this really help or is it marketing?
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post #23 of 50 Old 09-06-2011, 02:25 AM - Thread Starter
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I forgot to mention but I am looking at the display 3 from whom ever I get the software from. I do not have a meter yet.
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post #24 of 50 Old 09-06-2011, 03:45 AM
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I understand consumer suspicion, but I don't do business that way. It is most certainly not marketing. It will improve accuracy anywhere from only slightly to quite noticeably depending on the color sampled and the display measured.

Quote:
Originally Posted by robkiller View Post

Also does this really help or is it marketing?


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post #25 of 50 Old 09-06-2011, 05:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post

I understand consumer suspicion, but I don't do business that way. It is most certainly not marketing. It will improve accuracy anywhere from only slightly to quite noticeably depending on the color sampled and the display measured.

Yes, I certainly got that impression from the profiling report you included with my meter.

Btw, thank you, it arrived in Auckland safely. If I ever get my tripod/hood finished, I'll actually get around to using it.
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post #26 of 50 Old 09-06-2011, 10:34 AM
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If the meter is consistently reading 10% too much red from 30% to 100%... characterization will eliminate that sort of error.

If the meter is rated at +/-5% for repeatability, characterization will NOT improve that.

Filter-based meters would have to be re-characterized periodically. Spectro meters drift slower, but should still be re-calibrated (typically by the manufacturer) or characterized against a more accurate meter periodically. Getting a spectro meter does not eliminate the need to have the meter characterized or calibrated periodically, but spectro meters typically are more stable than filter-based meters.

Characterization has a WIDE range of levels of quality... the range could be a single measurement of a single color or gray step all the way to 20 grayscale steps plus 20 steps for red, green, blue, cyan, magenta, and yellow (resulting in a table with 140 measurements of 3 coordinates each all put into a table that the calibration software uses as a LUT for the meter to eliminate native color errors (could even be more than 20 measurements for each gray and color for some applications... or less depending on the level of detail in the characterization).

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post #27 of 50 Old 09-06-2011, 02:07 PM
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Still no answer to my question. Obviously meters have errors, cheap mass produce meters are likely to have greater errors. Obviously with a Display 3 Pro or a C6, one is buying having that meter calibrated against a much more unit to unit accurate meter and having cranked into it externally or internally, offsets to make it read as measurements done with the better mater. Obviously, not every measurement made using the offsets will have the same result as the better meter especially at low light levels. Fine. Thank You.

But the C6 is marketed as coming with a NIST certification. What does that exactly mean? How could a NIST certificated meter be better than one that didn't come with such a certication. Provided the reference meter is certified and operated under the conditions the certication applied to, what is the gd difference?

I hereby bless the C6 but I don't bless the C3Pro even though they are both the same meter and calibrated exactly the same. If you want me to bless the C3Pro, please put some money in my collection plate or is there some other difference that I am not getting. A simple, direct question that I am waiting for Spectracal to answer. A company whose products I own, who I am close to many people at, who has used my HT to conduct training classes in my area.


The silence is deafening. Sotti has read my post. Please answer without any obfiscation. If there isn't any difference, please say so. Its not a deal breaker. Does it mean more than just something to try and get someone to buy a C6 over a Display3Pro. There being other reasons of course such as the handy dandy carrying case and a tripod head or extender, or whatever, to try and justify the substantial pricing difference. I have both calibration programs. Which meter should I buy? Is one better or are they basically the same?

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post #28 of 50 Old 09-06-2011, 02:27 PM
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The NIST certificate is a per meter validation of the accuracy of that meter. Each meter is certified individually. The difference between that happening in a NIST lab and any other place is the documentation.

The C6 is not a i1 Display Pro with a NIST certificate.
The C6 is a different meter than the i1 Display Pro.
It has different calibration tables.
It has an adaptive speed algorithm.
It has increased accuracy over the i1 Diplay Pro.

The calibration tables are what increase the accuracy over the i1 Display Pro. The calibration tables are different than the standard matrix offsets as they are using new proprietary technology that xrite developed for the meter. We have an agreement with them to create those specific type of tables for any and all display types we want to support. That's what also gives us the ability to make the C6 field upgrade able for new display techs. I'd love to be more specific but I'm under NDA with XRite on the mater, they view the specifics as a trade secret.

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post #29 of 50 Old 09-06-2011, 05:03 PM
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Thanks for the answer.

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post #30 of 50 Old 09-06-2011, 05:40 PM
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Sotti,
When you say "i1 Display Pro", do you mean the i1 Display Pro 3 OEM as is that SpectraCal sells for $295, the i1 Display 3 OEM with additional calibration tables created off a reference meter that ChromaPure is offering and calling i1 Display 3 "PRO", or are you referring to the actual i1 Pro spectroradiometer?
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