Does my tv support deep colour and super white - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 9 Old 09-16-2011, 12:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Can anyone tell me if my toshiba 32BV501B support deep colour output and super white? I want to know this because i don't know whether I should have these settings switched on or off on my PS3.
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post #2 of 9 Old 09-16-2011, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Liam 990 View Post

Can anyone tell me if my toshiba 32BV501B support deep colour output and super white? I want to know this because i don't know whether I should have these settings switched on or off on my PS3.

SuperWhite isn't a setting that a TV supports or doesn't support. In the PS3 it indicated if you want WTW and BTB material to be passed on, or to be clipped inside the system. It should be enabled, however it only matters if your output it set to YCbCr and not to RGB. You can enable or disable Deep Color, it shouldn't matter, though I default to leaving it disabled since no Blu-ray content is encoded with Deep Color and I don't want the Blu-ray player adding it for me. I don't believe any PS3 content has it enabled either.

This is probably a post better reserved for the LCD section as well, and not the Display Calibration section.

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post #3 of 9 Old 09-16-2011, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smackrabbit View Post

SuperWhite isn't a setting that a TV supports or doesn't support. In the PS3 it indicated if you want WTW and BTB material to be passed on, or to be clipped inside the system. It should be enabled, however it only matters if your output it set to YCbCr and not to RGB. You can enable or disable Deep Color, it shouldn't matter, though I default to leaving it disabled since no Blu-ray content is encoded with Deep Color and I don't want the Blu-ray player adding it for me. I don't believe any PS3 content has it enabled either.

This is probably a post better reserved for the LCD section as well, and not the Display Calibration section.

Has anyone tested the deep color settings (auto vs. off) with a meter and (BD format) test patterns to see if it has any impact on the grayscale or gamut of the display connected to the PS3?


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post #4 of 9 Old 09-16-2011, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

Has anyone tested the deep color settings (auto vs. off) with a meter and (BD format) test patterns to see if it has any impact on the grayscale or gamut of the display connected to the PS3?

This is easier to check with gray and RGB color gradient test patterns than meters.

DeepColor should provide exactly the same or smoother gradients. However, the "smoother situation" should only occur if the source device does any kind of post-processing on the 8-bit video material (or if you have 10+ bit video -> unlikely). And it shouldn't do anything behind your back.
The chroma map should always be resized in at least one direction(s) but this small processing shouldn't make big visible differences between the output formats (bit depths), not like an RGB, especially RGB full range through level expansion from limited range (even 10-bit won't fully cover that without dithering noise).
De-interlace algorithms can also benefit from higher output bit depths (depending on the math, it creates some additional information with >8 precision.)

DeepColor isn't useless at all and it should never degrade the quality (unless some bugs occur ; it never adds nonexistent information by itself) but don't expect mireacles if the output format is the optimal YCC 4:2:2. It could be very useful with full range RGB output though.

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post #5 of 9 Old 09-16-2011, 10:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by janos666 View Post

This is easier to check with gray and RGB color gradient test patterns than meters.

DeepColor should provide exactly the same or smoother gradients. However, the "smoother situation" should only occur if the source device does any kind of post-processing on the 8-bit video material (or if you have 10+ bit video -> unlikely). And it shouldn't do anything behind your back.
The chroma map should always be resized in at least one direction(s) but this small processing shouldn't make big visible differences between the output formats (bit depths), not like an RGB, especially RGB full range through level expansion from limited range (even 10-bit won't fully cover that without dithering noise).
De-interlace algorithms can also benefit from higher output bit depths (depending on the math, it creates some additional information with >8 precision.)

DeepColor isn't useless at all and it should never degrade the quality (unless some bugs occur ; it never adds nonexistent information by itself) but don't expect mireacles if the output format is the optimal YCC 4:2:2. It could be very useful with full range RGB output though.

Except this gradient processing should only occur on material that isn't being processed at it's native resolution. If you have 1080p content on a Blu-ray disc and a 1080p display, in theory Deep Color should do absolutely nothing to the pixels, as they should be a 1:1 mapping and there is no room for interpolation. Wether Blu-ray players do this or not takes testing, and it's dependent on the player, but I've learned to not trust Blu-ray players to process anything too much. I've also seen players that force on Deep Color and in certain modes will shift the color from the correct value to the incorrect value. How much of this is due to Deep Color in the player, and how much is due to their modes I can't be certain as Deep Color couldn't be disabled.

If you were running a native 4K display, with a good video processor, then I'd consider having the processor output Deep Color. As it is where we have 1:1 pixel mapping on most content, and no content is encoded with Deep Color, I just see no benefit to having it enabled.

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post #6 of 9 Old 09-17-2011, 06:02 AM
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You should read a bit about video standars and chroma subsampling.
The native pixel format of DVD and Blu-Ray videos is YCC 4:2:0 12-bit (8+2*8/4 - one full resolution luma and two half resolution chroma channels). This pixel format isn't supported by HDMI (<=1.4 ?and up?), so the player have to resize the chroma map in one direction: YCC 4:2:0->4:2:2 before it can send it out on HDMI.
This chroma resize step can produce high bit depth results (even floating point numbers, depending on the algorithm), so you can use the extra precision of DeepColor.

If you have native YCC 4:2:2 material (test and/or demo video in a prototype test/demo player) then the conversion between 8 bit and 8+ bit (/ luma channel) should be absolutely harmless. (Of course, bugs can occur and the DeepColor option in the OSD can trigger other hidden "features" too.)

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post #7 of 9 Old 09-17-2011, 09:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

Has anyone tested the deep color settings (auto vs. off) with a meter and (BD format) test patterns to see if it has any impact on the grayscale or gamut of the display connected to the PS3?

Deep Color is not something that does anything with normal video sources (none of which are encoded with Deep Color).

For Deep Color to work, the source must be encoded with Deep Color and Deep Color must be turned on in the playback device and in the video display. If Deep Color is turned on in the video display and non-Deep Color sources are used, nothing happens because the sources do not contain Deep Color encoding or data. Deep Color is a lot like HDCD... if you play an HDCD on a device that doesn't support HDCD, you hear just the "regular" CD sound. If you have a device that supports HDCD and you have enabled HDCD decoding but you play non-HDCD discs, nothing happens because the non-HDCD discs have no HDCD encoding.

So... turning on Deep Color DOES NOTHING... ever. Unless you play a source encoded with Deep Color. At this time, the only Deep Color sources I'm aware of are a few digital video camcorders.

Manufacturers tout Deep Color support but it's a total waste for 99.999% of owners as it will never do ANYTHING.

Of course this doesn't account for a manufacturer who either intentionally or unintentionally does something completely WRONG with their implementation of Deep Color. There's no accounting for sloppy work or intentional circumvention of rules.

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post #8 of 9 Old 09-17-2011, 10:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by janos666 View Post

You should read a bit about video standars and chroma subsampling.
The native pixel format of DVD and Blu-Ray videos is YCC 4:2:0 12-bit (8+2*8/4 - one full resolution luma and two half resolution chroma channels).

12-bits? You shouldn't chastise someone then make an error in your reply. Yeah, you used "8" in the parentheses... but you said "12" outright.

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post #9 of 9 Old 09-17-2011, 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Liam 990 View Post

Can anyone tell me if my toshiba 32BV501B support deep colour output and super white? I want to know this because i don't know whether I should have these settings switched on or off on my PS3.

One of the PS3 threads has a list of all the right settings for PS3s... use those settings and forget about it.

SuperWhite is a Sony thing and it's really kind of dumb. It shoudn't ever be turned off on any product that has a SuperWhite setting.

All Superwhite meas (when enabled) is that the PS3 will send digital luminance values between 236 and 254 so that spectral highlights are not compressed to the 235 level (which is 100% white... hypothetically). White levels above 235 are "legal". Your TV either supports white levels above 235 or it doesn't - many times you have no control over it. It's not the end of the world if it doesn't. Few people, even calibrators, would be able to tell the difference between white levels limited to no more than 235 or when 236-254 are allowed. The only places these things would ever show up is in reflections off of chrome or water or crystals in a chandelier or other very high-intensity highlights.

As mentioned in another post, Deep Color isn't something that does anything whether it is turned on or off unless you happen to own one of the few digital camcorders that support Deep Color AND if you are playing back something you shot with that digi-cam -- and if Deep Color was enabled while you were shooting, of course.

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