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post #31 of 113 Old 09-23-2011, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Rayjr View Post

Michael is kind of the "Yoda" of calibration......he wants you to answer your own question.....by thinking it out yourself.

Later
RayJr

I think you mean the Socrates of calibration.
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post #32 of 113 Old 09-23-2011, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by chexi1 View Post

I think you mean the Socrates of calibration.

If you've met Michael you'd go you with yoda.

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post #33 of 113 Old 09-23-2011, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian Hampton View Post

All clear.

Except for the spoon... I still don't know if there's a spoon or not.

-Brian

Definitely no spoon

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post #34 of 113 Old 09-23-2011, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

Wow. What ever happened to civility? Why attack me?

So you think that all advertising is untrue? Is the inappropriate advertising that accompanies all your posts true?

I'm sorry that I hurt your feelings.


Larry

If you think that was an attack, you need to re-adjust your perspective and not be so paranoid. I was/am a little surprised by your naivete (as expressed in your posts, that's all I can go by) re. what a manufacturer/promoter/advertiser can/will say about their company/product and the fact that they might stretch the truth... more than a little in many cases.

I think advertising is frequently untrue and rarely helpful to the consumer. Look at the ads for fast food hamburgers... they look phenominal in the photos. So you go to the restaurant and get one, open it up and it looks like it was tossed around and flattened before it got to you (compared to the advertising photo). If your brand new car looked like it had been put together sloppily and was compressed from the top (compared to the advertising photos), you'd be pretty darn pissed off. Ad photos are almost always altered to present a message that is more favorable than real life. Ad text is designed to make you want the product, not tell the truth.

There is no advertising in my signature - the information there is statement of fact so you know my affiliations, background, and experience. I also do not hide my identity behind an alias, I use my real name. If I said "my calibrations will make you a stud, make your children Rhodes scholars, and will reverse the effects of aging"... that would be advertising. You are the perfect target/victim for advertisers if you can't recognize the difference between statement of fact and advertising.

Advertising/promotion frequently pushes the limits of ******** (and often goes way over the limit) to try to sell you something you don't want or need. If you don't understand or recognize this reality, you are destined to be "taken" by advertising lies and scam artists for the rest of your life. Overstating capabilities is par for the course in advertising/promotion. You have to be smart enough to sift through the BS and find the reality.

You seem to have the point of view (based on comments in your posts in this thread) that anything anybody says about their product is true -- I'm not sure where that comes from, but it's certainly not a trait that will serve you well in life.

"Movies is magic..." Van Dyke Parks
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post #35 of 113 Old 09-23-2011, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

Wow. What ever happened to civility? Why attack me?

So you think that all advertising is untrue? Is the inappropriate advertising that accompanies all your posts true?

I'm sorry that I hurt your feelings.


Larry

Twist and shout! You are not being "attacked." In a "civil" debate, positions/assertions/statements/conclusions are routinely challenged and counter-challenged. It should not be surprising when someone reading a statement you have made in a public discussion challenges or questions what's said. It looks to me like you are actually the one whose "feelings" got hurt.

Best Buy is not my idea of a credible industry resource or authority. They are the biggest outfit of their type in the US. They got that way by filling a need in a large segment of the market place, and doing it better than their competition. That doesn't mean they do everything correctly or effectively. Success in the market place and/or popularity are not indicators of honesty or superior quality. Marketing relies more on focus group responses than ethics or sound engineering.

"Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public." H. L. Mencken

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post #36 of 113 Old 09-23-2011, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

If you've met Michael you'd go you with yoda.

Hehe...this is true

RayJr

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post #37 of 113 Old 09-23-2011, 01:28 PM
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You guys need take a remedial course in reading comprehension. Quoting an ad does not mean that I believe it. The fact is I tend not to believe ads altogether.

Have a nice day.

Larry
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post #38 of 113 Old 09-23-2011, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

If you've met Michael you'd go you with yoda.

If you know Michael, you would also know he's actually an Imperial Storm Trooper when he's not training calibrators.
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post #39 of 113 Old 09-23-2011, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayjr View Post

Hehe...this is true

RayJr

Ditto

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeAB View Post

If you know Michael, you would also know he's actually an Imperial Storm Trooper when he's not training calibrators.

And more ditto. LOL

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post #40 of 113 Old 09-24-2011, 07:24 AM
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Greetings

You should ask the man with the baseball bat that question.

The typical description of a calibrated image from an uneducated person is that the image is too dark. (Versus coming from watching images with the vivid mode or dynamic mode of the tv.) People who have been educated in the process never make such comments.

If you go through life thinking that 2+2=98 ... and then one day someone tells you it is 4 ... without understanding ... you may think that 4 is a rather small number and it doesn't look right ... since you feel it should be a bigger number.

From the perspective of 1000's and 1000's of clients ... education is important and even more important than actually doing a calibration and saying nothing or little to the client. I've had a client threaten to beat me to death with a bat because he chose to opt out of education cuz he was too busy. When he came home to see a calibrated tv that was significantly different looking than two other tvs in his home that were not calibrated (He did not ask for those to be calibrated and the calibrator did not know those tvs existed) ... he quickly came to the conclusion that the calibrator had indeed broken his tv ... and he convinced himself that the calibrator owed him a new tv as a result. The baseball bat comes into the picture when he calls up the calibrator in a drunken rage and threated to beat him so that he does not pull this scam or con job on anyone else ever again.

Two weeks later after the man calms down... sobers up ... the calibrator returns to his home to see the original calibrated tv and that it has not changed. He then sits the man down for the next 2.5 hrs and proceeds to explain the entire calibration process to him in simple terms ... and at the end of this education session ... the angry man is now happy. He is also very apologetic because he realizes that he behaved badly. The image on the tv never changed. It was still calibrated.

The calibrator learned a few lessons that day. Lesson 1 ... answers without understanding are meaningless and without value. To the uneducated, the correct tv was the one that was wrong in his house. The wrong TVs looked more correct to him. Lesson 2 ... this would never happen to him again and from that day forward ... the education process took the front seat to the calibration itself.

Side benefit of this ... educated clients actually talk to their friends about the work and speak intelligently about it too. That gets more clients. And the original client is actually a client for life.

Regards

Michael Chen @ The Laser Video Experience
ISF/THX/TLV Video Instructor
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post #41 of 113 Old 09-24-2011, 08:01 AM
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Michael, the guy must not have known that all Imperial Storm Troopers carry E-11 blaster carbines.
LL

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post #42 of 113 Old 09-24-2011, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

If you've met Michael you'd go you with yoda.

Yoda or a Stormtrooper...lol!

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post #43 of 113 Old 09-25-2011, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael TLV View Post

Greetings

You should ask the man with the baseball bat that question.

The typical description of a calibrated image from an uneducated person is that the image is too dark. (Versus coming from watching images with the vivid mode or dynamic mode of the tv.) People who have been educated in the process never make such comments.

If you go through life thinking that 2+2=98 ... and then one day someone tells you it is 4 ... without understanding ... you may think that 4 is a rather small number and it doesn't look right ... since you feel it should be a bigger number.

From the perspective of 1000's and 1000's of clients ... education is important and even more important than actually doing a calibration and saying nothing or little to the client. I've had a client threaten to beat me to death with a bat because he chose to opt out of education cuz he was too busy. When he came home to see a calibrated tv that was significantly different looking than two other tvs in his home that were not calibrated (He did not ask for those to be calibrated and the calibrator did not know those tvs existed) ... he quickly came to the conclusion that the calibrator had indeed broken his tv ... and he convinced himself that the calibrator owed him a new tv as a result. The baseball bat comes into the picture when he calls up the calibrator in a drunken rage and threated to beat him so that he does not pull this scam or con job on anyone else ever again.

Two weeks later after the man calms down... sobers up ... the calibrator returns to his home to see the original calibrated tv and that it has not changed. He then sits the man down for the next 2.5 hrs and proceeds to explain the entire calibration process to him in simple terms ... and at the end of this education session ... the angry man is now happy. He is also very apologetic because he realizes that he behaved badly. The image on the tv never changed. It was still calibrated.

The calibrator learned a few lessons that day. Lesson 1 ... answers without understanding are meaningless and without value. To the uneducated, the correct tv was the one that was wrong in his house. The wrong TVs looked more correct to him. Lesson 2 ... this would never happen to him again and from that day forward ... the education process took the front seat to the calibration itself.

Side benefit of this ... educated clients actually talk to their friends about the work and speak intelligently about it too. That gets more clients. And the original client is actually a client for life.

Regards

Do you know any calibraters that you would recommend in White/Surrey B.C. ? How much does a pro-calibrater cost? It's for a Samsung 51D550. Thx.
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post #44 of 113 Old 09-25-2011, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Hotwheels1 View Post

Do you know any calibraters that you would recommend in White/Surrey B.C. ? How much does a pro-calibrater cost? It's for a Samsung 51D550. Thx.

Here is a list of calibrators. I believe Michael is one of the folks who serves you area. Price is often dependent on the experience and the equipment a calibrator carries.

http://www.thxvideotech.com/forum/sh...deo-Calibrator

Shawn Byrne
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post #45 of 113 Old 10-01-2011, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by SierraMikeBravo View Post

Here is a list of calibrators. I believe Michael is one of the folks who serves you area. Price is often dependent on the experience and the equipment a calibrator carries.

http://www.thxvideotech.com/forum/sh...deo-Calibrator

Thank You very much!!
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post #46 of 113 Old 10-01-2011, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael TLV View Post


You should ask the man with the baseball bat that question.

Wow, this is a high risk job.
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post #47 of 113 Old 10-03-2011, 08:28 AM
 
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Let me clean this mess up.

Because one takes an ISF course and manages to pass a test, which is oral and over the phone now, and in fact is much more rigorous than years ago, means really nothing re ones ability to actually calibrate something.

Someone who isn't certified by either ISF or THX, could in fact be a much better calibrator than the vast majority of those certified. However, ISF and THX courses are fun and one can learn a lot and, for example, most courses include more hands on equipment time than they did years ago.

A professional calibrator must be able to to attach the right certs to his name. Mostly as an advertisement to get customers. One thing ISF has done is to make the name ISF relatively well known and every Tom, Dick, and Harry wants an ISF certified guy to do his calibration.

Besides getting your set improved, assuming the calibrator has an understanding of what he is doing and at least a Chroma 5, the customer should ne left better off than he was before as to proper set up. But as one says, the customer may not like accuracy. The BIG thing the customer gets is all those printed charts and grasphs. Not that the customer understands most of them or exactly what those dots, circles, and triangles mean, he can see how close they are to what the papers say is perfection. I had a bigger error before and now I have really small errors. Of course the customer has no clue as to how far off the errors actually are give the probable significant innacuracies of the chroma 5. For a good job, a cheap probe can be used but it had better be calibrated rather recently and for the display type being measured.

A true pro calibrator will have a recently calibrated expensive reference measuring device. At a minimum, he will use that to calibrate a faster operating probe (such as a Chroma 5 or a Display 3) for the display type being calibrated. A good job will normally be done.

But in reality having errors say as large as 2 or 3 de are basically irrelevant. It will basically end up looking very much the same to ones eyes as a mythical 0 error anywhere calibration. But the customer gets the graphs and when the wife bitches how much it cost and that she liked it better before, you can roll up those graphs and throw them at her saying how bad and incorrect it was before and how right it is now. And then you say if loving her is wrong . . . .
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post #48 of 113 Old 05-20-2012, 10:45 PM
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I am still confused. So one should avoid Geeksquad calibration? I ordered it for VT50 and now I am debating if I should cancel it.

Just curious how much do pro's charge to calibrate the tv?
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post #49 of 113 Old 05-21-2012, 06:52 AM
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Greetings

Depends on who you ask. BB charges money ... they are professionals too.

Could be from $150 to $450 or more depending on what you ask for. Wanting 3D and ISF modes activated usually adds to the time and the cost.

Heard a story about a GS guy just last week ... arrived at 11 am ... left at 1130 am ... and the client was certain they calibrated his tv. (To what level ... we are uncertain. His calibration was discounted to $100)

Just like everything else ... there are good doctors and bad doctors ... good lawyers and bad lawyers ...

you are going to get what you pay for ... or at least you will pay for what you get.

regards

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post #50 of 113 Old 05-21-2012, 07:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curiousdude View Post

I am still confused. So one should avoid Geeksquad calibration? I ordered it for VT50 and now I am debating if I should cancel it.

Just curious how much do pro's charge to calibrate the tv?

Having experienced both GS and a "pro" calibration they are night and day different experiences both from an educational standpoint and end result. You've invested in a flagship plasma why compromise on calibration. Hire one of the many great calibrators here on AVS and never look back. Just my two cents, enjoy your new set

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post #51 of 113 Old 05-21-2012, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael TLV View Post

Greetings

Depends on who you ask. BB charges money ... they are professionals too.

Could be from $150 to $450 or more depending on what you ask for. Wanting 3D and ISF modes activated usually adds to the time and the cost.

Heard a story about a GS guy just last week ... arrived at 11 am ... left at 1130 am ... and the client was certain they calibrated his tv. (To what level ... we are uncertain. His calibration was discounted to $100)

Just like everything else ... there are good doctors and bad doctors ... good lawyers and bad lawyers ...

you are going to get what you pay for ... or at least you will pay for what you get.

regards

This reminds me of a report from a recent year I encountered in a news broadcast. That year over 50,000 patient deaths in the US were attributable to physician error!

I have a personal encounter with the legal profession that's note worthy. Years ago, I hired a very respected law firm in Colorado to work on a trademark dispute. The attorney they assigned to my case was grossly negligent, even after repeated intervention on my part, who quit the firm suddenly, leaving several cases in disarray, including mine. The firm tried to repair the damage to my case, but could not recover the legal ground lost by the attorney's negligence. They refunded all the money I had paid for their services up to that point. I could have sued their pants off but didn't have the resources or the inclination to get tied up in a lengthy legal battle.

How much can you rely on the significance of a professional holding a medical or law license? We each have to decide that. As long as humans are involved, we are still subject to human frailties.
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post #52 of 113 Old 05-21-2012, 07:20 PM
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I contacted Geeksquad and got this reply -

Quote:


Thank you for contacting Geek Squad. I contacted our installation team and they informed me that the agent that comes out will only spend 30min. to 1hour calibrating the TV. The agents that will perform the service are ISF certified and will be able to access ISFccc advanced calibration settings. They stated that the equipment that is used is a computer, and stated that if you would like a report/graph they will provide one if requested. They will set the night and day mode and for the customer satisfaction we guarantee a one year warranty on the calibration and will come out within that year to fix the picture.

Thank you,
Geek Squad Public Defender

No clue what to make of it.
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post #53 of 113 Old 05-21-2012, 07:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

Having experienced both GS and a "pro" calibration they are night and day different experiences both from an educational standpoint and end result. You've invested in a flagship plasma why compromise on calibration. Hire one of the many great calibrators here on AVS and never look back. Just my two cents, enjoy your new set

Not really sure were you are located...
But..here is a list of THX Calibrators that should be able to help you.

THX CALIBRATORS

Hope this helps.

RayJr

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post #54 of 113 Old 05-21-2012, 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by curiousdude View Post

I contacted Geeksquad and got this reply -



No clue what to make of it.

Ask them what it would cost and the time it would take to do an ISF Day and Night mode for any Sony they sell.

That should provoke a curious response...

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post #55 of 113 Old 05-22-2012, 04:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curiousdude View Post

I contacted Geeksquad and got this reply -



No clue what to make of it.

30 minutes to 1 hour is not enough time to properly calibrate a set, not sure what Geek Squad is charging but you would be way better off either investing in a good meter and software learning to do it yourself or hiring a pro calibrator.

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post #56 of 113 Old 05-22-2012, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by chunon View Post

30 minutes to 1 hour is not enough time to properly calibrate a set, not sure what Geek Squad is charging but you would be way better off either investing in a good meter and software learning to do it yourself or hiring a pro calibrator.

I have GS coming early next month and the cost is $199. The paper work says they will be out for 1.5 hours. So if they finish in 30 minutes, should I ask them to dive deeper into the settings. Maybe clean my house for the rest of the hour. Hehehe. But seriously, I really don't want to afford $400-$800 for a independent calibrater. I do understand the concept of you get what you pay for though. I actually like the picture of the set so far without doing anything. I will report back when mine is calibrated.
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post #57 of 113 Old 05-22-2012, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by amazonracer View Post

I have GS coming early next month and the cost is $199. The paper work says they will be out for 1.5 hours. So if they finish in 30 minutes, should I ask them to dive deeper into the settings. Maybe clean my house for the rest of the hour. Hehehe. But seriously, I really don't want to afford $400-$800 for a independent calibrater. I do understand the concept of you get what you pay for though. I actually like the picture of the set so far without doing anything. I will report back when mine is calibrated.

You are right. On bestbuy.com it's showing 2 hours for calibration but when i contacted Geeksquad directly, they said 30 min-1 hour.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Geek+Squ...&skuId=3552345
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post #58 of 113 Old 05-22-2012, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by amazonracer View Post

I have GS coming early next month and the cost is $199. The paper work says they will be out for 1.5 hours. So if they finish in 30 minutes, should I ask them to dive deeper into the settings. Maybe clean my house for the rest of the hour. Hehehe. But seriously, I really don't want to afford $400-$800 for a independent calibrater. I do understand the concept of you get what you pay for though. I actually like the picture of the set so far without doing anything. I will report back when mine is calibrated.

I hope it turns out well for you but I know lots of folks that have had bad experiences with GS.

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post #59 of 113 Old 05-22-2012, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by amazonracer View Post

I have GS coming early next month and the cost is $199. The paper work says they will be out for 1.5 hours. So if they finish in 30 minutes, should I ask them to dive deeper into the settings. Maybe clean my house for the rest of the hour. Hehehe. But seriously, I really don't want to afford $400-$800 for a independent calibrater. I do understand the concept of you get what you pay for though. I actually like the picture of the set so far without doing anything. I will report back when mine is calibrated.

I have never paid more than $375 and that is for 3 1/2 hour calibration and he would have spent more time. That includes Day and Night modes and 3d calibration and did not leave until I was completely satisfied.

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post #60 of 113 Old 05-22-2012, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by chunon View Post

I have never paid more than $375 and that is for 3 1/2 hour calibration and he would have spent more time. That includes Day and Night modes and 3d calibration and did not leave until I was completely satisfied.

So in your opinion, I won't get the day and night modes and 3d calibration in 90 minutes from GS? Is there a priority of the 3 modes. The 3d is really only once in awhile. Is it physically impossible to get a detail calibration in a hour and a half. Is their a list or recommendation to ask the guy when he gets out to my house. Maybe I can wright my concerns or priorities down and convey that to the calibrater. The $375 is not out of the question but I still need a sub and spending $199 was just another "cha ging" on top of spending already $4k on everything and that only includes a used V12 BA center channel. It's just getting out of hand. You know what I mean. But after all that your picture could be a lot better, I understand that side and in the end you have to go the distance. Thanks for all your responses.
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