Sharp LC-60E88UN...got in Service Menu, but how do I actually adjust WB? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 13 Old 09-27-2011, 09:49 PM - Thread Starter
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I purchased the service menu for this TV this afternoon and it comes with the following info related to calibrating the white balance adjustment:

==================================================

Adjustment point Adjustment conditions Adjustment procedure
1 Setting (For details about the adjustment procedure, refer to Kameyama Model Integrated Mo
itor WB Adjustment Specification V1.4.)
1) Set the set to the following conditions.
AV MODE: [DYNAMIC]
Backlight: +16
Active Contrast: OFF
Aging Time: Min. 60 minutes
2) Connect the set with the white balance adjustment jig.
2 Automatic adjust-
ment execution
[Command]
Process mode
KRSW0001
KKT10037
Setting
KYOF0000
OSDS0001
SBSL0016
Multi-point adjustment
mode
MSET0001

Point 6
WBI60928
MG6G****
MG6B****
MG6R****
Point 5
WBI50808
MG5G****
MG5B****
MG5R****
[Adjustment procedure]
1) Transmit the Monitor adjustment process code using the remote control.
2) Set the point 6 to the specified gradation, specify the strongest color as the fixed
color, and adjust the RGB so that it becomes the standard value through negative
adjustment.
3) Set the point 5 to the specified gradation, set the G correction value (3232 x G valu
of point 6/3712) (fractions rounded off), and adjust the RB so that it becomes the
standard value.
4) Set the point 4 to the specified gradation, set the G correction value (2784 x G valu
of point 6/3712) (fractions rounded off), and adjust the RB so that it becomes the
standard value.
5) Set the point 3 to the specified gradation, set the G correction value (2096 x G valu
of point 6/3712) (fractions rounded off), and adjust the RB so that it becomes the
standard value.
6) Set the point 2 to the specified gradation, set the G correction value (896 x G value
point 6/3712) (fractions rounded off), and adjust the RB pattern so that it becomes th
standard value.
7) Set the point 1 to the specified gradation, set the G correction value (736 x G value
point 6/3712) (fractions rounded off), and adjust the RB so that it becomes the stan
dard value.
8) Write the adjustment value by the MSET0003 command and turn off the AC power
* RGB initial value of point 6: Set gradation 3712
* RGB initial value of points 1 to 5: G correction value of each point
[Adjustment value]
* According to the Standard settings submitted by the Technical Department
[Adjustment standard value]
Measuring instrument: [Minolta CA-210] Technical measuring instrument
Point 4 Level Reference value Adjustment spec Inspection spec
WBI40696
Point 6 928
X=0.272
±0.0015 ±0.0030
MG4G**** y=0.277
MG4B****
Point 5 808
X=0.272
±0.0015 ±0.0030
MG4R**** y=0.277
Point 4 696
X=0.272
±0.0020 ±0.0040
Point 3 y=0.277
WBI30524
Point 3 524
X=0.272
±0.0025 ±0.0050
MG3G**** y=0.277
MG3B****
Point 2 224
X=0.272
±0.0035 ±0.0070
MG3R**** y=0.277
Point 1 184
X=0.272
±0.0050 ±0.0100
y=0.277
Point 2
WBI20224
MG2G****
MG2B****
MG2R****
Remarks Setting conditions when performing inspection
AV MODE: [DYNAMIC] (Reset)
Monochro: ON
Active Contrast: OFF
Aging Time: Min. 60 minutes
Point 1
WBI10184
MG1G****
MG1B****
MG1R****
Writing
MSET0003
=====================================================

How do I enter the "Monitor adjustment process"? And what is a white balance adjustment jig?

I just want to use my i1Display 2 to dial in the gray scale and gamma better than the two point gray scale in the user menu let me do but I'm lost.

Thanks for the help.
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post #2 of 13 Old 09-28-2011, 12:43 AM
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Chances are the service menu will NOT offer any better grayscale adjustment than you already have with the user controls. In fact you could seriously mess up your set to the point it's unwatchable and unrecoverable by dinking around in there with stuff you don't understand. Get out of there now and don't look back. Seriously.

If you don't believe me, read the posts in the "Samsung Calibration Failure" thread by member Syvere. Although it deals with a different brand, the same caveats and possible outcomes apply.

What you've posted appears to be a factory procedure for setting the display's baseline grayscale (the one your user adjustment builds on) using a special cable (the "jig"), software, and a $$$ Minolta CA-210 reference meter. It isn't something you want to try without all that gear.

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post #3 of 13 Old 09-28-2011, 08:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi Rolls-Royce,
Thank you for your reply. Funny you mention the Samsung thread as I was just reading that tonight as well and felt bad for the folks there. Definitely could have been me.

I have ZERO intention of touching anything but the 6 point (so 18 controls since 1 for each color) white balance controls. And I am making sure I keep track of where they were at before I do ANYTHING to make sure I can put it back.

I just feel like I'm slowly going mad trying to calibrate this thing and I think if I had the right tools to touch 6 points rather than just 2 I could get rid of the problems I have at the high and low end without creating a big hump in the middle IRE range.

Even if I decide to not mess with it, at this point I just want to know WHAT tool I am missing. What are command codes? Where do they live? Where do I get that special cable?

I feel like this whole calibration has been a big puzzle and it's been fun learning but I just want to know what an ISF calibrator guy would come to my house with to pull this off. I know he'd have a much better meter than my little i1Display and better software than HCFR, but what else does he have that I'm just totally missing?

Any insights you can provide will be UNBELIEVABLY appreciated.
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post #4 of 13 Old 09-28-2011, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shoeman22 View Post

Hi Rolls-Royce,
Thank you for your reply. Funny you mention the Samsung thread as I was just reading that tonight as well and felt bad for the folks there. Definitely could have been me.

I have ZERO intention of touching anything but the 6 point (so 18 controls since 1 for each color) white balance controls. And I am making sure I keep track of where they were at before I do ANYTHING to make sure I can put it back.

I just feel like I'm slowly going mad trying to calibrate this thing and I think if I had the right tools to touch 6 points rather than just 2 I could get rid of the problems I have at the high and low end without creating a big hump in the middle IRE range.

Even if I decide to not mess with it, at this point I just want to know WHAT tool I am missing. What are command codes? Where do they live? Where do I get that special cable?

I feel like this whole calibration has been a big puzzle and it's been fun learning but I just want to know what an ISF calibrator guy would come to my house with to pull this off. I know he'd have a much better meter than my little i1Display and better software than HCFR, but what else does he have that I'm just totally missing?

Any insights you can provide will be UNBELIEVABLY appreciated.

I don't think the settings you listed are the ones a pro calibrator would touch. Going back to the Samsung analogy, you'd want the equivalent of "WB Movie" on the Sharp to get the added control over grayscale you want (assuming it exists). A pro calibrator would be in the best position to answer your question, however, and I don't know anything about Sharps calibration wise.
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post #5 of 13 Old 09-28-2011, 09:21 AM
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Those are definitely factory service calibration steps. Most time the factory have some sort of jig and proprietary software for adjusting the white balance. I am surprised that the model doesn't have the WB in the regular video setup menu. If you do decide to change the values. Take a picture and also put all the values in a spread sheet so that you will always have them.
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post #6 of 13 Old 09-28-2011, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shoeman22 View Post

I feel like this whole calibration has been a big puzzle and it's been fun learning but I just want to know what an ISF calibrator guy would come to my house with to pull this off. I know he'd have a much better meter than my little i1Display and better software than HCFR, but what else does he have that I'm just totally missing?

Any insights you can provide will be UNBELIEVABLY appreciated.

The pro calibrator would have:

- Multiple days of professional calibration training for which he paid dearly
- Additional hours or days of effort to complete the requirements for ISF or THX certification (THX Certification requires the data from 10 calibrations and each one has to "pass" scrutiny of the before and after measurement results)
- Multiple years of experience with many brands and models (assuming you didn't hire a rookie)
- Multiple thousands of hours of experience with his meter and software
- An in-depth understanding of everything about and
- A strong sense of protecting your TV against any possible adjustment that could disable the TV forcing him to have to pay out of pocket to have the manufacturer correct his mistake (no pro calibrator wants to blow the calibration fee from 3 or 4 or 6 calibrations because of a mistake)

When it comes to craftsmanship, there is no substitute for experience, training, and tools of the trade.

"Movies is magic..." Van Dyke Parks
THX Certified Professional Video Calibration
ISF -- HAA -- www.dBtheatrical.com
Widescreen Review -- Home Theater & Sound
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post #7 of 13 Old 09-28-2011, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shoeman22 View Post

Hi Rolls-Royce,
Thank you for your reply. Funny you mention the Samsung thread as I was just reading that tonight as well and felt bad for the folks there. Definitely could have been me.

I have ZERO intention of touching anything but the 6 point (so 18 controls since 1 for each color) white balance controls. And I am making sure I keep track of where they were at before I do ANYTHING to make sure I can put it back.

I just feel like I'm slowly going mad trying to calibrate this thing and I think if I had the right tools to touch 6 points rather than just 2 I could get rid of the problems I have at the high and low end without creating a big hump in the middle IRE range.

Even if I decide to not mess with it, at this point I just want to know WHAT tool I am missing. What are command codes? Where do they live? Where do I get that special cable?

I feel like this whole calibration has been a big puzzle and it's been fun learning but I just want to know what an ISF calibrator guy would come to my house with to pull this off. I know he'd have a much better meter than my little i1Display and better software than HCFR, but what else does he have that I'm just totally missing?

Any insights you can provide will be UNBELIEVABLY appreciated.

After reading the Sharp's owner's manual online, I think the "6-point" controls you refer to are actually Sharp's CMS, or Color Management System. If the colors it controls include Cyan, Magenta, and Yellow, that's what it is, and not a White Balance setup. Think of it as an advanced color/tint control. However, in many older sets like yours that were claimed to have a CMS, they didn't work properly and adjusting them could screw up the picture royally. Best to leave it at the defaults, or very close to them. Until recently, 2-point (high/low, cut/drive, bias/drive) grayscale controls were the norm. They require a bit of art and compromise when adjusting between the high and low controls--these interact--on Red, Green, and Blue to get the flattest possible grayscale.

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post #8 of 13 Old 09-28-2011, 02:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Blackburn View Post

The pro calibrator would have:

- Multiple days of professional calibration training for which he paid dearly
- Additional hours or days of effort to complete the requirements for ISF or THX certification (THX Certification requires the data from 10 calibrations and each one has to "pass" scrutiny of the before and after measurement results)
- Multiple years of experience with many brands and models (assuming you didn't hire a rookie)
- Multiple thousands of hours of experience with his meter and software
- An in-depth understanding of everything about and
- A strong sense of protecting your TV against any possible adjustment that could disable the TV forcing him to have to pay out of pocket to have the manufacturer correct his mistake (no pro calibrator wants to blow the calibration fee from 3 or 4 or 6 calibrations because of a mistake)

When it comes to craftsmanship, there is no substitute for experience, training, and tools of the trade.

Hi Doug,
I'm not discounting what a professional calibrator does at all. This is my first shot at ever calibrating anything and it has been at least 25 hours of learning / frustration and I'm still no closer than when I started.

If anything, I now have a TON of respect for the time and effort you guys have put in to be great at something that is slowly eating away at the happiness of my soul.

Anyway, for better or worse, I've always been a tinkerer though, so I just want to get it somewhere close to better, but I certainly don't want to break it.

So as a professional calibrator, you come to my house to take care of my Sharp...are you going to be able to do anything other than just use my user menu controls to dial in the picture?

That's what I'm curious about. Or do most TVs all use a universal "jig" you have in your toolbox for doing the white balance?
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post #9 of 13 Old 09-28-2011, 02:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi Rolls-Royce,
I'm pretty sure it's for white balance. It doesn't come across well in my copy/paste job out of the PDF, but the section is clearly labeled "White Balance Adjustment" and the adjustment parameters listed are the same as in the service menu. They all have either B, G, or R in the parameter name which I think is an indicator that's what it's for as well.

The TV does have CMS controls as well, but I don't see anything for them in the service menu or the service manual itself.

I'm assuming with whatever jig / cable, you can transmit the proper codes to queue up some sort of test pattern to calibrate each point against. Without that jig though, I think I would have to make adjustments, then unplug the TV, turn it on just to see what I'd probably screwed up more

It sounds like this is an all around bad move, so I think I'm going to just get it as good as I can and see if I like it. I also have it hooked up to an onkyo receiver that can do greyscale adjustments as well, so I'm wondering if maybe Onkyo picked different points on the IRE space to put their low and high. Maybe I'll get lucky and they don't coincide so I could have more or less 4point greyscale calibration.
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post #10 of 13 Old 09-28-2011, 07:23 PM
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I highly recommend you stick with the white balance controls in the user menu. Although "only" 2-point, they should be more than sufficient to get the job done. Try turning off all the picture "enhancements" (auto color, auto contrast/brightness, etc.) since they can play havoc with your calibration.

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post #11 of 13 Old 09-29-2011, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shoeman22 View Post

Hi Doug,
I'm not discounting what a professional calibrator does at all. This is my first shot at ever calibrating anything and it has been at least 25 hours of learning / frustration and I'm still no closer than when I started.

If anything, I now have a TON of respect for the time and effort you guys have put in to be great at something that is slowly eating away at the happiness of my soul.

Anyway, for better or worse, I've always been a tinkerer though, so I just want to get it somewhere close to better, but I certainly don't want to break it.

So as a professional calibrator, you come to my house to take care of my Sharp...are you going to be able to do anything other than just use my user menu controls to dial in the picture?

That's what I'm curious about. Or do most TVs all use a universal "jig" you have in your toolbox for doing the white balance?

In your post, you asked what professional calibrators have that you don't have. I provided a list of what an experienced calibrator has that you don't have. And that's all there was to that.

Personally, I refuse to calibrate Sharp TVs up through last year's models because there are residual problems I can't fix that I think are pretty annoying. I don't like calibrating displays I have to make excuses for after I'm done. I'm not familiar with your particular model (as to how old or new it is) - the jury is still out on 2011-2012 Sharp models but I do hope to have an Elite Quattron here to review before too long to see if the calibration controls have improved enough to start calibrating the 2011-2012 models (at least in the Elite series).

That said, I don't use the service menu for calibration at all on newer TVs unless there is a specific reason to use the service menu. Calibrators don't use the service menu because it's super top secret and makes us look like video wizards, we used it because there was no alternative. Now that useful controls are located in the user menu (in many cases) it is far safer (and often much faster and easier) to use the user menu controls.

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post #12 of 13 Old 09-30-2011, 11:13 AM - Thread Starter
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That said, I don't use the service menu for calibration at all on newer TVs unless there is a specific reason to use the service menu. Calibrators don't use the service menu because it's super top secret and makes us look like video wizards, we used it because there was no alternative. Now that useful controls are located in the user menu (in many cases) it is far safer (and often much faster and easier) to use the user menu controls.

That's exactly what I wanted to know. If a pro avoids the service menu, then I sure as hell should leave it alone.

As to the model, it's a 2010. I didn't really consider calibration when I purchased it, but I've been getting a lot closer using Fields rather than Windows (I think local dimming has been an issue) with why everything seemed whacky at first.

I'm telling you, it has been a long time since I've run into something that has been as deep as this calibration stuff.

It's like last night, I got my RGB levels really close to 100%, but then I take a look at gamma and luminance and I'm way off. Luminance is dragging on the low end and way too high at the high end...gamma falls off a cliff after 70 IRE. So I go back to the greyscale for dummies guide, re-read luminance and realize gamma and luminance are hugely reliant on one another. Tweak gamma so now it's pretty solid on all but blue and luminance is almost perfect. But now my color temperature is way too low, so I've gotta add that blue back in somehow even though he's way high on the luminance graph as it is.

It's just been a fascinating battle. I really thought I'd buy the Spears and Musli Blu-ray and be done in a couple hours when I started. But despite the frustration it feels like I keep getting closer and closer.
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post #13 of 13 Old 04-26-2012, 07:26 PM
 
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Sort of related to this discussion- I just got a LC60LE745U and would like to adjust the V-Size and H-Width on the analog inputs as they cut off a bit too much, but don't know if there are any adjustments for these or how to get to them if they do exist. I found the main service menu, but I didn't recognize any of the things it did so I left it alone. (Most of it looked related to the basic operations, saw some color adjustments but left those alone as I still wasn't sure what they did. There seem to be enough user-accessible color adjustments anyways.) Seems to have a counter of how long the TV's ever been on too.

I did a Google search for a service manual for this or any other Sharp TVs and couldn't find any (except for an old CRT from more than 10 years ago.) Is this information kept strictly confidential among technicians, or is there a way for an above-average consumer to find out what adjustments are available and how to do them?
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