AVSHD 709 on Mac and DLP Projector - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 13 Old 02-05-2012, 12:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Hello!

I have an Optoma HD33 DLP projector that I thought I'd try to make some basic adjustments to using the AVSHD 709 calibration tool.

Problem is that I don't see any flashing bars at all when I run the basic Black Clipping, APL Clipping and White Clipping. I've tried to calibrate the output from my mac from its System Prefrences. When I do that, I do see the bars, but the colors are really messed up and everything looks horrible. So I tried to calibrate using SuperCal instead and that ended up in a horribly green image, but I did see the bars.

I really think I need to get my basic levels fixed because, most movies I watch turn out to be really really dark and clip alot of the image in the dark sections.

Can any one help me out here to get my calibration a little better so that I can enjoy movies played from my computer?
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post #2 of 13 Old 02-05-2012, 04:18 PM - Thread Starter
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I figured out what my problem was. The Colorspace on the projector was set to Auto and seemed to be put to RGB(16-235) instead of RGB(0-255) which meant it clipped the blacks and the whites pretty badly. Don't know why it does that though.

Even though I know what the problem is now it is a bit annoying since switching the source to my PS3 and playing a blu-ray seems to use the YUV color space, which means I have to go in and change the settings.

I don't even understand what that setting is for, why would anybody want to clip the highlights and the shadows?
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post #3 of 13 Old 02-05-2012, 09:11 PM
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So your projector is calibrated to PC levels from using the Mac then? Set the PS3 to RGB Full and this will expand the Blu-ray content from video to PC levels. That should help fix the issue.

Chris Heinonen
Senior Editor, Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity, www.hometheaterhifi.com
Displays Editor, AnandTech.com
Contributor, HDGuru.com and Wirecutter.com
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post #4 of 13 Old 02-05-2012, 09:12 PM
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Computers typically use 0-255 for the black to white range, while video levels commonly use 16-235 for black to white. By default usually computers will "expand" video to the computer range, so commonly video 16 goes to 0 and 235 goes to 255 on many computers. Your display likely expects a typical video input by default, rather than a computer input. The setting on the display simply allows you to select between computer (0-255) and video (16-235) input levels.
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post #5 of 13 Old 02-13-2012, 07:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smackrabbit View Post

So your projector is calibrated to PC levels from using the Mac then? Set the PS3 to RGB Full and this will expand the Blu-ray content from video to PC levels. That should help fix the issue.

Thanks for the tip, now I don't have to manually switch back and forth between the color space modes. The settings, which are dug deep in the menus of the projector.

But will video played on bluray on the PS3 be played back the same or is there no difference between RGB Full & YUV (when converted)?

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Originally Posted by alluringreality View Post

Computers typically use 0-255 for the black to white range, while video levels commonly use 16-235 for black to white. By default usually computers will "expand" video to the computer range, so commonly video 16 goes to 0 and 235 goes to 255 on many computers. Your display likely expects a typical video input by default, rather than a computer input. The setting on the display simply allows you to select between computer (0-255) and video (16-235) input levels.

Ah, that explains it. Now I just wonder how I should tackle this issue, how to obtain maximum color correctness and still maintain it user-friendly.
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post #6 of 13 Old 02-15-2012, 09:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by naw View Post

But will video played on bluray on the PS3 be played back the same or is there no difference between RGB Full & YUV (when converted)?

Setting the PS3 to expand the video to computer levels does alter the video to some extent. It's questionable how many people could actually pick out unaltered video from video that has been expanded to computer levels in a blind test, but the general recommendation for the best video quality is to avoid expansion if possible. Since most computers use the entire video range by default, trying to fit with the ideal video recommendation when using a computer can be an issue. From a practical standpoint the recommendation from Smackrabbit is generally reasonable. Another option is that some displays will allow you to use computer levels for one input and video levels on another input, but I'm not familiar with your projector.
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post #7 of 13 Old 02-16-2012, 01:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alluringreality View Post

Setting the PS3 to expand the video to computer levels does alter the video to some extent. It's questionable how many people could actually pick out unaltered video from video that has been expanded to computer levels in a blind test, but the general recommendation for the best video quality is to avoid expansion if possible. Since most computers use the entire video range by default, trying to fit with the ideal video recommendation when using a computer can be an issue. From a practical standpoint the recommendation from Smackrabbit is generally reasonable. Another option is that some displays will allow you to use computer levels for one input and video levels on another input, but I'm not familiar with your projector.

My projector, an Optoma HD33 has 2 HDMI inputs, but the settings for them are the same. Would be great to be able to keep them apart. But then, games on the PS3 are sent out in RGB 0-255 and the projector sets its settings to RGB 16-235, which I have to correct too. If it would be possible to disable the RGB 16-235 mode, that would be great, then the computer and ps3 games would be detected as RGB 0-255 and blurays would run in YUV as supposed to.

Might this be possible from some kind of manufacturers maintenance menus?
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post #8 of 13 Old 02-16-2012, 06:26 AM
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Usually the settings are in the user menus. The most likely option I can think of is if the projector has a VGA input, which would typically expect a full range signal. That might allow you to use the HDMI inputs set to video range.
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post #9 of 13 Old 02-16-2012, 06:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alluringreality View Post

Usually the settings are in the user menus. The most likely option I can think of is if the projector has a VGA input, which would typically expect a full range signal. That might allow you to use the HDMI inputs set to video range.

I don't really get it. You mean I should run the computer on VGA instead? But how does that solve my PS3 game/bluray problems with autodetect on color space? Or did i completely misunderstand you?
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post #10 of 13 Old 02-16-2012, 06:13 PM
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I was just saying that you may have another option, rather than outputting computer levels from the PS3 and computer.

The PS3 can output video levels http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...3#post13955243 and the display should accept video levels with the right settings. It's debatable if games can really be calibrated, so if you're using the PS3 as a Blu-ray player the general recommendation would be to output video levels from the PS3. If the display has a VGA input you may be able to use it to avoid any problems with the PS3 outputting video levels (16-235) while the computer uses computer levels (0-255). One complication with this recommendation is if the VGA input on the display has a limited input resolution, and the projector's manual should likely list what resolutions a VGA input will accept.
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post #11 of 13 Old 02-17-2012, 12:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alluringreality View Post

I was just saying that you may have another option, rather than outputting computer levels from the PS3 and computer.

The PS3 can output video levels http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...3#post13955243 and the display should accept video levels with the right settings. It's debatable if games can really be calibrated, so if you're using the PS3 as a Blu-ray player the general recommendation would be to output video levels from the PS3. If the display has a VGA input you may be able to use it to avoid any problems with the PS3 outputting video levels (16-235) while the computer uses computer levels (0-255). One complication with this recommendation is if the VGA input on the display has a limited input resolution, and the projector's manual should likely list what resolutions a VGA input will accept.

Oh okey, that shed a little light on my mind. So i set the PS3 to RGB Limited and make the projector autodetect RGB or YUV. But I don't get it with the part with the VGA. I don't have any VGA output on my computer, only HDMI and DVI-D.
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post #12 of 13 Old 02-17-2012, 06:25 AM
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It seems sort of pointless to have two digital connections and no analog connections, but I'm not familiar with your computer.
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post #13 of 13 Old 02-17-2012, 06:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alluringreality View Post

It seems sort of pointless to have two digital connections and no analog connections, but I'm not familiar with your computer.

Actually, it has only one mini-DP and I use a mini-DP > HDMI and a mini-DP > DVI-D connection to connect it to external displays.
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