HCFR - Open source projector and display calibration software - Page 115 - AVS Forum
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post #3421 of 4171 Old 03-28-2014, 10:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daMaster View Post

I guess I'm still confused and will only really figure it out if I play with it or if someone here is kind enough to elaborate and give a straight answer. Basically, I don't know if I need to run i1d3ccss to convert EDR files as described on the Wiki or is that wiki info outdated?
It's dated, no need to do that anymore. EDR files are now integrated in HCFR and are selectable on the screen you posted, under Display Type. Select the EDR/spectral sample that is the closest to your display.
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post #3422 of 4171 Old 03-29-2014, 05:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mijotter View Post

Just found this Thread. Does anyone know if the HCFR can be used with a JVC RS46 to save the settings to the PJ?

No, it does not support direct control of external devices.
Quote:
Originally Posted by xvfx View Post

What is the most accurate, absolute Y with gamma or relative Y?

Neither one is more or less accurate, they are just different ways of measuring the distance between your target and measured color in perceptual coordinates. Relative Y is more sensitive to chromatic errors.
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post #3423 of 4171 Old 03-29-2014, 02:17 PM
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Thanks, zoyd! I'll stick with Relative Y then to find the most errors.
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post #3424 of 4171 Old 03-29-2014, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rahzel View Post

It's dated, no need to do that anymore. EDR files are now integrated in HCFR and are selectable on the screen you posted, under Display Type. Select the EDR/spectral sample that is the closest to your display.

Tried to calibrate a Dell LED monitor (ST2220M) with a new ColorMunki and couldn't decide which EDR to select. One of them was resulting in a picture that was too green, and I ended up calibrating with LCD White LED IPS (WLED AC LG Samsung) but still not completely satisfied with the results, i.e. find them a bit yellow as compared to previous calibrations I had done with an EyeOne Display LT and an older version of HCFR 2.

This all seems to be a crap shoot nowadays: how do I know that my new ColorMunki meter is indeed accurate or if it's just a case of having selected the wrong EDR? Which EDR should I use for LED computer monitors, and which should I use for LED TVs?

Also, I just can't seem to get Windows to use any other driver for the ColorMunki besides the default Windows USB device driver. It still works, just would prefer to use the Xrite or Argyll drivers without having to actually install the Xrite software (bloat). Has anyone figured out a way to replace the default Windows driver without installing the Xrite package?
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post #3425 of 4171 Old 03-29-2014, 05:56 PM
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All you can do is trust the tools you have. The Colormunki Display/D3 is most likely more accurate than your old LT, especially if the calibration with your LT was done recently (LT is prone to deterioration/drift because the filters are exposed, unlike the CMD/D3).

The EDR you chose is probably the closest and is the one I would use. You can also try not using any correction/EDR, although I don't think the results will be significantly different from the White LED EDR.

As for the driver, the CMD/D3 should be plug and play. You shouldn't need to install anything else.
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post #3426 of 4171 Old 04-01-2014, 05:01 AM
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http://www.avsforum.com/t/1525059/profiling-eye-1-disp-pro-with-colormunki-photo-spectro#post_24549131
I don't normally do this, but since no one is willing to help me and since it is related to hcfr software, I will be very grateful if someone is kind enough to answer my questions in the thread I've opened. Thank you!
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post #3427 of 4171 Old 04-01-2014, 07:58 AM
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******************************************************************************

Andrei_VVB's original post

 

Hi guys! I have an Eye1 disp pro. I might get a colormunki spectro and I would like to know if profiling with this will get me some benefits. My logic says that it will. I ask this because I will rent the munki so I want to be sure that this solution will be a good one for a DIY calibration(I can't hire a pro in my country).
Second, I would like to be helped with the exact procedure of how I do this profiling with the latest HCFR, position of the meters, what patterns etc with my Panasonic VT60 plasma.
And last, after profiling I use only the colorimeter for everything(including CMS) or only for wb, gama and spectro for CMS?
Thank you very much for your help!

******************************************************************************

 

Profiling your i1 display pro to a spectro will have the benefit of better accuracy from the i1 display pro. Profiles should be created for each display type you calibrate.

 

you can profile a meter several different ways, simultaneous readings, individual readings, and from different sources. For either method, a file needs to be created for the spectro, and the reference measure selected, a 2nd file created for the i1 display pro, and the 3 color and white measurement taken from inside this file. once the measurements are complete you create a matrix you can save to use when needed.

 

Be sure to select refresh display on the meter setup page when calibrating a plasma or crt.

 

Once your meter is profiled, you would use it for all you calibration measurements.

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post #3428 of 4171 Old 04-01-2014, 08:13 AM
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Thank you. When I'll get the spectro I'll see how it' works. I have some experience calibrating displays with hcfr and LT or Disp3 but never tried to profile with it.
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post #3429 of 4171 Old 04-01-2014, 04:36 PM
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I have been trying to learn how to use this software for the past couple of weeks and am currently confused in one issue. I use the internal pattern generator (view images) to automate the measurement process. For making adjustments I have been using the avchd files playing through mpc-hc and madvr because I cannot figure out how to make hcfr display an individual pattern. Such as red 100% or grey 80%. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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post #3430 of 4171 Old 04-05-2014, 06:05 PM
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I haven't done a calibration for a while, and just installed 3.1.0.7 and the newest madVR. I noticed a couple of things compared to 3.0.4.3:
  1. The GDI pattern generator either doesn't work now or is fundamentally different somehow. If I try to do a continuous read with GDI as the generator, HCFR brings up a completely blank screen that I seem to have to Ctrl+Alt+Del out of.
  2. If I try to use madVR as the generator instead, then only the madTPG seems to work with HCFR now. I can't run it in a video window in MPC-HC like before, as it isn't detected by HCFR and gives some "BlindConnect() failed" error.

Is there any way to get the GDI generator to work as it did previously? Or should I just get used to using the madTPG? Are there any updated setup/calibration instructions for the newer versions since certain things seem to have changed?

Also, kind of loosely related, but does anyone know how quickly screens generally drift after calibration? My TV that was set to ~6500K in August is now reading ~6200K. I'm guessing I should probably re-calibrate, but my eyes are kind of used to how it looks.
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post #3431 of 4171 Old 04-06-2014, 03:37 AM
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The requirement to use MadTPG with HCFR was introduced recently with madVR 0.87.*

You can download an older version from http://www.videohelp.com/tools/madVR/old-versions#download

As to screen drift, it is sadly fairly common with some technologies. Projectors are probably the worst (lamp aging, and different results after a few hours of use... which makes precise calibration of limited relevance).
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post #3432 of 4171 Old 04-06-2014, 04:58 AM
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I've removed support for drawing test patterns through madVR / media players due to technical reasons. For now madTPG is the only way to draw test patterns.
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post #3433 of 4171 Old 04-06-2014, 02:38 PM
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Alright, good to know. I used it last night to redo my display. I still have to remake my BT.1886 setup, but trying to get every point right at 2.20 and as close to 6500K as possible reminded me why I didn't want to recalibrate ever again.
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post #3434 of 4171 Old 04-15-2014, 10:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Some dillweed View Post


Also, kind of loosely related, but does anyone know how quickly screens generally drift after calibration? My TV that was set to ~6500K in August is now reading ~6200K. I'm guessing I should probably re-calibrate, but my eyes are kind of used to how it looks.

My LCD w/EEFL backlight seems to drift (toward red) at a fairly rapid rate ... at least I hope it's the display and not the meter. So far, a re-cal every six months seems about "right."
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post #3435 of 4171 Old 04-16-2014, 05:43 AM
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Results from a budget Samsung plasma PS434900, 1024x768 with 3D, got it over the F4500 because I wanted the DVB-T2 tuner. It has 10 point white balance and CMS. £358. DTP94 profiled to i1 Pro Rev D.
f4900.zip 20k .zip file



Attached Files
File Type: zip f4900.zip (20.1 KB, 1 views)
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post #3436 of 4171 Old 04-16-2014, 07:50 AM
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^^^Nice job !

65VT60
55ST60
Sony BDV-F7 3dbluray/soundbar
Calman Enthusiast
Dish Network with Hopper/Super Joey
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post #3437 of 4171 Old 04-17-2014, 08:05 AM
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@22point8 nice graphs! Question and suggestion. What patterns did you use (particularly size + APL or non-APL) and suggestion is to run a color-checker or at least a saturations run (25,50,75,100) to get a better feel for how your panel is performing at different stimulus levels.

Sony 32" EX400 calibrated settings

Panasonic 50" S60 calibrated settings

HTPC/Sony S5100 to Sony HT-CT150 to Panasonic 55" VT60, Sony 32" EX400, Panasonic 50" S60

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post #3438 of 4171 Old 04-17-2014, 10:21 AM
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I used small apl on the avs709 disc on a PS3, I also checked on the normal sized apl and normal sized windows, the greyscale was very similar, all under 2 dE, the difference between the normal and small windows was the gamma, set to -1 got 2.2 on the normal sized patterns and 2.3 on the small apl. The colours were the same on small and normal apl patterns.

The saturations didn't line up very well on previous attempts. I'm a bit confused as to how to measure them.

Does 'REC709 75%' mean I would measure rgbycm at 75% saturation and either 75 or 100% luminance, then white at the same luminance?

I've been measuring at 'REC709' measured all the colours and those measurements seem to have an impact on the saturation measurements. I don't know if things work differently in calman or chromapure.

I tried calibrating at 75% saturation/75% luminance and that didn't really help because things still didn't seem to line up except at that specific point.

I'll take some measurements later to show what I mean.
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post #3439 of 4171 Old 04-17-2014, 10:44 AM
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Try your greyscale on CIE2000 to find more errors. Also try 20pt run to see if there are any big spikes...
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post #3440 of 4171 Old 04-17-2014, 03:35 PM
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f4900windowsvsapl.zip 23k .zip file

Best I could do with the saturations.


20 point greyscale (the 100% dE is 0.8)



All done with 10% size windows. Had to set gamma to -2 to get 2.2 and its certainly not flat!


Now with the 2% size APL windows 10 point greyscale

Much flatter gamma still set at -2 but results in 2.4
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File Type: zip f4900windowsvsapl.zip (23.4 KB, 0 views)
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post #3441 of 4171 Old 04-17-2014, 06:40 PM
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Impressive for your TV considering it was £358. What does your colour checker come to? Assume you have GCD or Mascior's disc...
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post #3442 of 4171 Old 04-17-2014, 06:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 22point8 View Post

I tried calibrating at 75% saturation/75% luminance and that didn't really help because things still didn't seem to line up except at that specific point.

I'll take some measurements later to show what I mean.
Looking at your saturation sweep, even though your CMS doesn't seem to be lining up as it should, it looks like calibrating at 75% saturation will still give you lower overall errors.
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post #3443 of 4171 Old 04-18-2014, 12:47 AM
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Hi. Hoping it's OK to post some basic questions here. I've tried looking through some of this thread, but at 115 pages over 2 years, it's a bit overwhelming.

I just got a Panasonic 55ST60 plasma and want to get it setup as good as I can. I have a new i1 Display Pro that I've only used with it's software to calibrate monitors and generate ICC profiles. But I know calibrating the TV is going to be WAY more involved than that.

So if I could just ask a couple newbie questions to make sure I have what I need to proceed with the latest software that's out, it would be much appreciated:

1) I have the most current version of HCFR on a Win 8 laptop. I believe it is recognizing my i1. Do I only need to select 'plasma' under the display type now and not do anything else to 'calibrate' or adjust my i1?

2) I was able to burn the AVSHD to a DVD and it appears to play in my Blu-Ray player. Do I need anything else for the patterns I'll need while testing (e.g., connecting the laptop for pattern generators)?

3) Is the guide found here still the best tutorial for guiding me through the process even though it's from 2008? I saw his newer tutorial uses the commercial software which I'd rather avoid for now.

4) Does HCFR display results in real time as you make adjustments, or do you adjust and re-check?

Thanks! Any other tips or good tutorials would be welcome before I jump in. Just want to make sure I have the most current information.

- K
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post #3444 of 4171 Old 04-18-2014, 01:46 AM
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1. Pretty much. Since plasmas are a refresh type display, you should sync your meter via the "calibrate meter" button. It might even ask you to do this, I don't remember.

2. It is sufficient in achieving a good calibration in most cases. But I would recommend trying some other free discs, such as GCD, MCD or CMD. They will give you more options in terms of pattern sizes, different APLs, and they have 75% saturation patterns and a color checker that AVSHD709 lacks.

3. I'd say his newer guide is still more informative, even though he uses Chromapure. If you can't figure out how to perform a specific task because they're labelled differently, feel free to ask here in this thread.

4. It displays many results in real time, such as luminance/target luminance for gamma, RGB balance for grayscale, color points/luminance for color management etc.

Personally I like to use 10-12% windows on plasmas, but this is a matter of preference. AVS's window patterns are ~14% and are a bit too big IMO. Others prefer smaller windows and some prefer APL patterns. Each will give you slightly different results.

I'd also recommend calibrating at 75% saturation / 75% amplitude. These patterns are again not available on the AVS disc. You might need to change it to REC.709 75% in HCFR's preferences/references (I forget what it's set to by default).
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post #3445 of 4171 Old 04-18-2014, 04:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xvfx View Post

Impressive for your TV considering it was £358. What does your colour checker come to? Assume you have GCD or Mascior's disc...

I have the Mascior, I thought that was the GCD, but the colorchecker on there is in a different order than in HCFR, maybe I'll give it a go later, its a bit of a pain to navigate that disc on a PS3 too. I'll look for the real GCD then!
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post #3446 of 4171 Old 04-18-2014, 09:15 AM
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Okay I download and used the GCD disc 10% size windows. I realised the AVS windows were actually bigger (14%), and that's why the gamma had to be set to -2 to get a 2.2 gamma.
I recalibrated the greyscale and changed the gamma to -1 to get 2.2 gamma.

I then set HCFR to 'HDTV 709 75%' and used 75/75 as suggested.

Here are the saturation and colorchecker results:
PS43F4900Colourchecker.zip 19k .zip file
The only colours with a deltaE >3 are Orange/Yellow Orange and light skin is 3.0
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File Type: zip PS43F4900Colourchecker.zip (19.3 KB, 4 views)
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post #3447 of 4171 Old 04-28-2014, 04:41 AM
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Is it possible to create an ICM profile using HCFR?

Because obviously, hardware calibration can only get you so far, especially if your display has very limited settings.

And for some reason, my i1 Display Pro isn't recognized by either basiccolor display or i1profiler any more (worked for about two years) but HCFR still works just fine.

Seeing as it's apparently a known issue that x-rite/basiccolor are incapable of fixing (I guess you can't expect somebody you paid multiple hundred euros to be as competent as a freeware developer... mad.gif ), I'd like to do the software calibration with HCFR as well.

Oh yeah... dispcalGUI would work too but in my opinion, it's an awful tool - incredibly slow on every setting and "cancel" doesn't work properly.... had to kill it from command line, for crying out loud.
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post #3448 of 4171 Old 04-29-2014, 12:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5h4d0w View Post

Is it possible to create an ICM profile using HCFR?

No.
Quote:
Oh yeah... dispcalGUI would work too but in my opinion, it's an awful tool - incredibly slow on every setting and "cancel" doesn't work properly.... had to kill it from command line, for crying out loud.

ArgyllCMS, with or without dispcalGUI, is the i1Profiler equivalent option for ICC/ICMs ...

As for i1Profiler ... make sure you've (re)enabled the xritedd service or it won't work.
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post #3449 of 4171 Old 04-29-2014, 05:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTVChallenged View Post

ArgyllCMS, with or without dispcalGUI, is the i1Profiler equivalent option for ICC/ICMs ...

I wanted to avoid ArgyllCMS because of the HUGE documentation and it being a command line tool. But as it turns out, it's more straightforward and comfortable than I thought it would be.

And according to measurements taken by HCFR, it managed to calibrate my display with an average dE (across grayscale and primaries/secondaries) of 0.3 and a maximum of 0.6. Not too shabby.
Quote:
As for i1Profiler ... make sure you've (re)enabled the xritedd service or it won't work.

Thanks but I'll stick with ArgyllCMS now. No messing around, just works. That's how I like it. smile.gif
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post #3450 of 4171 Old 05-04-2014, 01:12 AM
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Hi Folks,

 

I'am very happy to find this forum, with so much worthful information about calibration of a display. I was reading now for days to get into this crucial Topic of calibration. I got myself a "i1 Display Pro" probe and I own a Panasonic P65 VTW60 TV .

 

Finally I downloaded HCFR 3.1.0.7, installed it on my Laptop, plugged in the i1DP probe and ... voila, it works, out of the box. I was happy.

 

But now comes the crucial part :( :

 

- I dont find the "i1d3ccss" in the "tools directory" of HCFR, it's empty.

- also HCFR does'nt show me any ".CCSS" files, in the "sensor selection" Dialog, if I check "use existing meter correction file" .

 

I've downloaded one CCSS file from : http://dispcalgui.hoech.net/colorimetercorrections and the I1Profiler also installed a Plasma CCSS file.

 

I've located these ".CCSS" files in:

 

- "\Users\<user>\AppData\Roaming\Color"  

- "\Application\HCFR\ETALON/ARGYLL/"

 

I run HCFR presently with my "admin" account.

 

 

What do I wrong ?  What do I have to do, to get die CCSS file to work with HCFR ?

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