HCFR - Open source projector and display calibration software - Page 127 - AVS Forum
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post #3781 of 4177 Old 06-24-2014, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Hampton View Post
The default preference for Gamma now is something I never heard of ... and results in a bent reference line.

Is this default like "the good one"?...
BT.1886? This explains it pretty good: http://www.spectracal.com/Documents/BT.1886.pdf
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post #3782 of 4177 Old 06-24-2014, 01:31 PM
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Thanks,

I found it hard to read but will try again... Good stuff.
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post #3783 of 4177 Old 06-25-2014, 02:34 AM
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Hi,

Got a new laptop and the latest version of HCFR, I want to find the HSL bars option and I simply can't.

I've re-read Zoyd's mention of how it's a checkbox under user measures...Still I got nothing.

How can I find this option?
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post #3784 of 4177 Old 06-25-2014, 02:45 AM - Thread Starter
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post #3785 of 4177 Old 06-25-2014, 06:07 AM
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Thank you very much. Can't wait to calibrate yet again.
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post #3786 of 4177 Old 06-25-2014, 06:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
Advanced->Preferences->General tab->user measures section
I just installed 3.1.4 over 3.1.0, this is what I have


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post #3787 of 4177 Old 06-25-2014, 06:48 AM
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It seems 3.1.4 did not install over 3.1.0, I tried to install to a new directory and the install and in the HCFR folder there is an empty Etalon_Argyll folder, an HCFR shortcut, an unistall exe and dat files.
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post #3788 of 4177 Old 06-25-2014, 07:59 AM
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HCFR Guide

Is this the most current guide written specifically for Color HCFR software?
http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457.

If so, is it close enough to use with the current version of software?

I see the link to an updated guide, but it's written for ChromaPure, not HCFR.

I'm sure the two packages are similar, but I'm only interested in learning how to use HCFR right now.

Thanks.
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post #3789 of 4177 Old 06-25-2014, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobRiff View Post
Is this the most current guide written specifically for Color HCFR software?
http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457.

If so, is it close enough to use with the current version of software?

I see the link to an updated guide, but it's written for ChromaPure, not HCFR.

I'm sure the two packages are similar, but I'm only interested in learning how to use HCFR right now.

Thanks.
I was able to use that guide to work with HCFR, but this is a good question -- obviously the author won't be updating that guide anymore and it would be good to have such a walkthrough that is relevant to the latest display technologies and features of the HCFR software. iirc I used both his old and new guide in tandem because some of the values such as target ftL are updated in the new guide.
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post #3790 of 4177 Old 06-25-2014, 11:55 AM
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Now that I found the HSL bars I want to say thanks yet again. Love this addition and also the Delta E bars. Huge upgrades to the program.

As I understand it my current pj had good native gamut and finally has a more advanced CMS but it's still supposed to mess up everything if you use it. However, even if I only use the color and hue controls I still think the HSL bars will help me get the color closer.
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post #3791 of 4177 Old 06-25-2014, 05:23 PM
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Meter Exposure Time Setting

I'm using a Spectracal C3 meter and I'm getting inconsistent readings with the default settings.

For Calman 5, I had to increase the meter exposure time to 1.5 seconds to get consistent readings.

Is there a way to do this in HCFR?

Thanks.
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post #3792 of 4177 Old 06-25-2014, 05:39 PM - Thread Starter
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not presently, there is code in there to average several readings together but it's not active right now. Can you post an example of the noise you are seeing, two grayscale runs showing the magnitude of the RGB and dE values would be nice.
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post #3793 of 4177 Old 06-26-2014, 03:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
not presently, there is code in there to average several readings together but it's not active right now. Can you post an example of the noise you are seeing, two grayscale runs showing the magnitude of the RGB and dE values would be nice.
The problem occurs during grey scale calibration adjustments.

When I try to set the RGB levels at any given level the RGB levels change for each reading.

For instance, Red (or Blue or Green) may show up as 105% on the first reading, drop to 95% on the next reading then 100% on the next.
This occurs even though I haven't changed any settings on the TV.

It's difficult to make any adjustments when the target keeps changing.
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post #3794 of 4177 Old 06-26-2014, 07:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Do you see +/- 5% at all levels? That would not be normal, +/- 2% is typical at the lower levels. I'll look into adding an on-demand averaging button.
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post #3795 of 4177 Old 06-26-2014, 07:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
Do you see +/- 5% at all levels? That would not be normal, +/- 2% is typical at the lower levels. I'll look into adding an on-demand averaging button.
Yes, the problem occurred at all levels.

I'm going to break out my old Spyder 2 (if I can get it to work with HCFR) and see if the problem persists with a different meter.
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post #3796 of 4177 Old 06-26-2014, 07:34 AM - Thread Starter
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post #3797 of 4177 Old 06-26-2014, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
What type of display? If CRT or plasma did you sync the meter?
It's a Samsung F5300 series plasma.
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post #3798 of 4177 Old 06-26-2014, 04:30 PM - Thread Starter
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I ran some tests with my C3 and could not reproduce that level of fluctuation at levels above 30% on my plasma. At 20-30% there are occasional 4% drops in the red channel so I've made a test build with an averaging button in the sensor box, give it a try to see if things stabilize. It will increase the read time by a factor of 3. Also, don't use the plasma display type, it's not currently working right, use the LCD CCFL backlight. Unzip this and place the two files in the main HCFR directory.

Last edited by zoyd; 06-26-2014 at 05:19 PM.
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post #3799 of 4177 Old 06-26-2014, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Holiday121 View Post
Ok so I had some time to mess with some more settings Here is what I ended up with.

This is under User 2. Is there any benefit for calibrating each setting on the projector or is the END result all the same? I am pretty sure I might be able to tweak the RGB a little bit lower but don't have the time and for some reason I don't think I will be able to tell the difference. Anything else I should be checking now since I think I am past the RGB and Color Temp and Gama steps..








Ok since I cant get my Meter working and having problems with Dispgui and keep getting a error of Dispcal.exe has stopped working I am going to have to try to make more adjustments manually.
So I Guess I should start with the gamma and color temp? What steps should I take in correcting this
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post #3800 of 4177 Old 06-27-2014, 05:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
I ran some tests with my C3 and could not reproduce that level of fluctuation at levels above 30% on my plasma. At 20-30% there are occasional 4% drops in the red channel so I've made a test build with an averaging button in the sensor box, give it a try to see if things stabilize. It will increase the read time by a factor of 3. Also, don't use the plasma display type, it's not currently working right, use the LCD CCFL backlight. Unzip this and place the two files in the main HCFR directory.
I tried the new "averaging" program this morning.

I changed the display type to LCD - CCFL.

I tried adjusting the 40% level since that was the one with highest Deltea E reading (3.3) after the initial run through.

The colors continue to bounce around.

The least stable color seemed to be Red which changed from a low of 96% to a high of 110% without making any changes to the settings of the TV. Blue and green seemed to be more stable with variances of 5% or so.

If I have time later today, I'll try my old Spyder 2 and see if it performs any better.
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post #3801 of 4177 Old 06-27-2014, 07:55 AM
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I have noticed instability as well, with my i1DP3 meter. My fluctuation is typically +-2% with occasional outliers up to maybe +-4%. This is with a plasma, measuring in direct contact. Would the heat cause instability? I let the meter stabilize in temp for at least 30 minutes.

I'm very interested in any tool that gives me more raw output from the meter, in particular a graph of output vs time. Does anything like that exist?

Also some nitpicks/feedback:
- "Y target" is not visible when using small screens -- my 11" netbook cuts it off and the scrollbar does not scroll down far enough
- Calibrate meter always tells me that I don't need to calibrate; if that's because of the meter that I have, then a message stating so would prevent me from trying more than once
- Is it possible to display gamma value during continuous measures? When adjusting gamma I used Y to do, attempting to hit target Y -- which is perhaps equally as good except that I couldn't read target Y due to the above
- Is there documentation for all of the preferences/options? I noticed some options specific to AVSHD 709 that I'm unsure whether I should enable


And lastly, is there a "preferred" calibration disc? I have used both AVSHD and GCD and have no problems with either -- I assume that they are equally correct in their patterns but wanted to ask just to make sure.

Also, if you'd like some help with adding tooltips to the options I would be happy to chip in some time to do so and provide you a patch, but I'll need documentation to work off of.
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post #3802 of 4177 Old 06-27-2014, 11:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Fluctuations are normal probe behavior and +/-2% is not perceptually important. For the D3 if you want to smooth the response further than default you can increase the integration time on the probe properties page. The freemeasures page as well as the freemeasures history plot will show you the current time series.
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post #3803 of 4177 Old 06-29-2014, 05:26 PM
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I am trying to get my Spyder 3 to work with HCFR. I cannot figure it out. When selecting a sensor it does not list it. I thought the drivers were installed by default with version 3.1.4.

Last edited by Makaveli6103; 06-29-2014 at 05:43 PM.
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post #3804 of 4177 Old 06-29-2014, 05:42 PM - Thread Starter
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post #3805 of 4177 Old 06-29-2014, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
What have you tried so far? Driver installed ok?
Nevermind I selected the wrong folder in device manager when trying to install the drivers. I got it working now. Now I just gotta figure out this software.
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post #3806 of 4177 Old 06-30-2014, 12:40 AM
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@zoyd : I have a little request and two questions.

If you find it useful as well, could you implement a "top percentile average" dE value for the SG Color Checker - meaning, something that shows the average dE of the highest 10% of dE measured - in addition to the avg and highest dE showings. I understand that even on a 3D lut (some ) people strife for 2.3 highest dE > so looking at the highest values in detail - after you've reached a highest dE of near, or even below dE3 might be beneficial.

You've now implemented bt1886 gamma that is adjustable to the desired gamma average using the box next to it. Question. Does the CIE2000 formula for colors (saturation sweeps, color checker) take into account the gamma target you've set, or the actual gamma readings, or none of the above and just a set gamma curve (probably at bt1886 default as you've made it the new default in HCFR).

And third, could you or would you find it useful to implement an option in HCFR to read a large random amount of color fields (say 500, 1000 or above) to - again look at the highest dE percentile of the bunch. It probably depends on how colorwindows are created within HCFR.

Also thank you for your presence in these forums, I've learned quite a bit the last days just reading your posts about 3D LUT creation alone.

Last edited by harlekin; 06-30-2014 at 12:51 AM.
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post #3807 of 4177 Old 06-30-2014, 03:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harlekin View Post
@zoyd : I have a little request and two questions.

If you find it useful as well, could you implement a "top percentile average" dE value for the SG Color Checker - meaning, something that shows the average dE of the highest 10% of dE measured - in addition to the avg and highest dE showings. I understand that even on a 3D lut (some ) people strife for 2.3 highest dE > so looking at the highest values in detail - after you've reached a highest dE of near, or even below dE3 might be beneficial.
ok, that's an easy one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by harlekin
You've now implemented bt1886 gamma that is adjustable to the desired gamma average using the box next to it. Question. Does the CIE2000 formula for colors (saturation sweeps, color checker) take into account the gamma target you've set, or the actual gamma readings, or none of the above and just a set gamma curve (probably at bt1886 default as you've made it the new default in HCFR).
When you use BT.1886 all the color targets are based on the gamma target you've set. It's the same when you choose a power law target unless you check "use measured gamma", in that case the color targets are based on a power law using your average measured gamma.

Quote:
Originally Posted by harlekin
And third, could you or would you find it useful to implement an option in HCFR to read a large random amount of color fields (say 500, 1000 or above) to - again look at the highest dE percentile of the bunch. It probably depends on how colorwindows are created within HCFR.
This is more difficult but I will consider.
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post #3808 of 4177 Old 06-30-2014, 07:39 AM
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Good work with this project. I stopped using my prior software and will continue to use this for awhile. Very impressed. I was able to do a lot of experiments with this software that I am unable too with others.

My only suggestion thus far; is it possible to add in a timer for re-calibration of the i1pro? (which I believe is every 10m) or perhaps some info on where to enable this feature. I ended up using a kitchen timer, it would be nice to have this built in. I'm guessing I must be overlooking this feature somehow.

-SiGGy

Last edited by SiGGy; 06-30-2014 at 09:17 AM.
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post #3809 of 4177 Old 07-01-2014, 05:57 AM - Thread Starter
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thanks SiGGy, I think there is some i1pro calibration timeout code in there, I'll have a look. What type of experiments were you able to do?
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post #3810 of 4177 Old 07-01-2014, 07:43 AM
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Quote:
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thanks SiGGy, I think there is some i1pro calibration timeout code in there, I'll have a look. What type of experiments were you able to do?
I should have said "do easily". I can do these experiments with the other software, it's just not quite as easy.

I was looking at color luminance/saturation changes vs backlight setting on a Samsung LED side lit LCD. Trying to see if there is a spot where the panel comes closest to hitting target luminance/saturation or if lowering backlight too much to get good blacks is detrimental for color. I was doing sweeps on each primary/secondary color adjusting the backlight in between (and re-calibrating gamma with each change). Very easy/fast when in continuous mode watching the color space map.

The reason I did this is I can dial the set to about .007fl but it requires large adjustments in CMS to target 75% and get good color sweeps. Trying to see what all is sacrificed and if there is a sweet spot with the backlight setting.

-SiGGy

Last edited by SiGGy; 07-01-2014 at 09:26 AM.
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