HCFR - Open source projector and display calibration software - Page 128 - AVS Forum
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post #3811 of 4282 Old 07-01-2014, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
thanks SiGGy, I think there is some i1pro calibration timeout code in there, I'll have a look. What type of experiments were you able to do?
Yep ... there used to be an option on the meter (driver) setup page ... "Eye One Parameters" in the original version.
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post #3812 of 4282 Old 07-02-2014, 02:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harlekin View Post
@zoyd : I have a little request and two questions.

If you find it useful as well, could you implement a "top percentile average" dE value for the SG Color Checker - meaning, something that shows the average dE of the highest 10% of dE measured - in addition to the avg and highest dE showings. I understand that even on a 3D lut (some ) people strife for 2.3 highest dE > so looking at the highest values in detail - after you've reached a highest dE of near, or even below dE3 might be beneficial.

You've now implemented bt1886 gamma that is adjustable to the desired gamma average using the box next to it. Question. Does the CIE2000 formula for colors (saturation sweeps, color checker) take into account the gamma target you've set, or the actual gamma readings, or none of the above and just a set gamma curve (probably at bt1886 default as you've made it the new default in HCFR).

And third, could you or would you find it useful to implement an option in HCFR to read a large random amount of color fields (say 500, 1000 or above) to - again look at the highest dE percentile of the bunch. It probably depends on how colorwindows are created within HCFR.

Also thank you for your presence in these forums, I've learned quite a bit the last days just reading your posts about 3D LUT creation alone.

I've uploaded a package to the testing builds folder on sourceforge if you'd like to try it out. This adds a "worst 10%" average dE and identifies the max dE patch name. A couple of other tweaks in this version are triplet values appear on the internal generator patterns and madVR patterns (if you have the OSD enabled in madTPG). There is also a new adaptive integration button which will average samples based on light level but should only be used for probes like the D2 which does not have it's own algorithm. I'm working on user defined patch sets for the internal/madVR generators. Feedback welcome.

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post #3813 of 4282 Old 07-03-2014, 06:55 AM
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Love it. I have a calibration of a friends TV scheduled for tomorrow and will put it to good use. (Will be testing it against a known source this evening.) It will also allow me to better understand display characteristics.
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post #3814 of 4282 Old 07-03-2014, 07:25 AM
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Ok so we all know I been having problems with the htpc from the start.

I decided to do a fresh install of win 7 lets see if that helps
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post #3815 of 4282 Old 07-03-2014, 07:25 AM
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@zoyd : Adaptive integration might prove to be positioned too prominently and with icons that are too inviting (play and stop! ) for people that dont read changelogs. Hide it in a menue?

I was getting so curious about it I had to return to this thread an reread your posting..
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post #3816 of 4282 Old 07-03-2014, 08:50 AM
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Found a two bugs in the test build.

When doing a SG color checker sweep, then saving the session to a file and the reloading - the "highest dE" color name will be replaced by a wrong one/not showing up correctly.
(Will upload a picture as part of my next posting (give me a minute.. )).

Also, I then transfered my save file to a WinXP Virtual Machine running your test build as well and upon loading the file - the right "highest dE" color name would show, but there were some unintended ASCII characters next to it.
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post #3817 of 4282 Old 07-03-2014, 09:18 AM
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And thanks to this test build a found a slight deviation of my last current config that in critical viewing (and avg dE in the SG Color Checker) proved considerably better than my previous one.

What I learned from it: Its VERY important that between 30 and 50 IRE (and probably up) the colortemperature curve EXACTLY kisses the 6500K line - my former calibration had one minor tweak in it to "correctly" reduce the deviation you will see at the 10 and 20 ire points, but it slightly pushed 30 and 40 ire below 6500K and by slightly I mean about to but probably even less then to the 6400K mark - compared to the configuration now, and only in comparison - skintones (edit: and blue skies) were noticeably too warm in critical viewing (dE for skin tones in both configs way below dE 2.5(- except bronze tones)).

Also, when calibrating greyscale - and all your values are way below dE 2 in both CIE76 and CIE2000, go with the configuration that shows lower errors in both standards. Basically - calibrate for CIE76, but don't ignore CIE2000 greyscale tracking (its just four mouse clicks to switch them). I had other configurations that showed better CIE76 tracking but noticeably worse CIE2000 performance and in critical viewing they look not as good.

Best that is possible on a KDL42W653 (just by using the TVs settings):


And just to give you an indication about the "worst 10%" (avg dE) value: One Single increment in red Bias was the difference between a value of 3.2 and 2.47 (avg of the 9 or ten colors it looks at). Thats how sensitive this indicator is, or at least can be.

So all that is left for me at this point is to find someone that can educate me on if the skewed sample of colors in Color Checker SG (it is skewed as in "you have more points in certain sectors") also does represent "visual importance" as in "more noticeable". I mean, why would have photographers chosen it as a standard else wise?

Last edited by harlekin; 07-03-2014 at 09:41 AM.
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post #3818 of 4282 Old 07-03-2014, 09:37 AM
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ok just reinstalled and downloaded hcfr. Since i have a i1 display pro do i need to install any drivers because hcfr still not reading it
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post #3819 of 4282 Old 07-03-2014, 09:58 AM
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@Holiday121 :

No, absolutely not - maybe this is an error in the checksum generator that identifies the i1 Display Pro (3) again? Zoyd?

In the last week, messing around with my probe, I installed HCFR on four entirely different Windows machines (some virtual, some not) - and it really was plug and play every time.

On one I even had preinstalled the device drivers Calman offers in its package - no conflict. On the others I had installed no drivers at all, no conflict and the meter just showed up and was usable (with all correction tables (white LED, plasma, ..) ) on the first launch.

edit: On the one with Calman I later even installed i1's iProfiler Software (which also installs a driver package) - no conflict. HCFR always picked up the meter regardless of any driver installed or not.

Last edited by harlekin; 07-03-2014 at 10:01 AM.
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post #3820 of 4282 Old 07-03-2014, 10:02 AM
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Ok now this is really starting to get to me hahah. I been dealing with this for a while and decided maybe a fresh install would work and still a no go. Can you post the driver you had installed and where did you place it
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post #3821 of 4282 Old 07-03-2014, 10:16 AM
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woot finally gotit
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post #3822 of 4282 Old 07-03-2014, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holiday121 View Post
Ok now this is really starting to get to me hahah. I been dealing with this for a while and decided maybe a fresh install would work and still a no go. Can you post the driver you had installed and where did you place it
Have you've read my response? No drivers on 3 different machines. Worked flawlessly.

Two different sets of drivers on one machine, worked flawlessly also.

I'd appreciate my comments interpreted publicly more accurately. Its just that I hate for others to get a wrong impression about what I've posted.

Glad that it worked for you in the end. Curious as of why though.
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post #3823 of 4282 Old 07-03-2014, 12:14 PM
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No clue why it didn't work before reformat.


I changed usb ports and hcfr recognized it. I tried this before the reformat so it had to be some sort of driver issue conflicting somewhere
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post #3824 of 4282 Old 07-03-2014, 01:46 PM
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I'm trying to build the solution and get these errors when doing so in VS 2012:

Upon import of .sln:
Code:
C:\Users\brennru\Desktop\Users\janz\developers\calibration demo\MSVC++\SimpleDemo.vcxproj : error  : Project "C:\Users\brennru\Desktop\Users\janz\developers\calibration demo\MSVC++\SimpleDemo.vcxproj" could not be found.

C:\Users\brennru\Desktop\hcfr-code\CHCFR21_ITALIAN.vcxproj : error  : Project "C:\Users\brennru\Desktop\hcfr-code\CHCFR21_ITALIAN.vcxproj" could not be found.
As well as "Setup1" being unavailable.

Attempt to build:
Code:
Error    5    error RC1015: cannot open include file 'afxres.h'.    C:\Users\brennru\Desktop\hcfr-code\CHCFR21_ENGLISH.rc    15    1    CHCFR21_ENGLISH
From my searches it looks like I need MFC, and VS 2012 express doesn't have that -- is there a plugin or something to get support for that?

Edit:
http://www.codeproject.com/Articles/...sual-C-Express
http://forums.mydigitallife.info/thr...ad-link-needed
https://github.com/mturk/cmsc
> Had to remove l.fra/ prefix in some .rc files

Then I get errors about a missing "res\\refcc24sat.bmp" file, which I cannot locate.

Last edited by crakarjax; 07-03-2014 at 02:36 PM.
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post #3825 of 4282 Old 07-03-2014, 02:12 PM
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I have another question - the difference between my normal i1 Display Pro (3) measurements and the ones adapted with the "white LED" correction table (argyl > files originally from x-rite) is almost exactly one increment of red gain.

I've now tested both configurations and the one without the correction table has better skin color performance in critical viewing.

The Sony LCD in question has LED backlight which brings me to the following two questions.

1. What does the explanation beside the correction tables mean (why manufacturers and not models) and why isnt Sony listed besides the white LED correction table. I understand that other CM software doesnt even list the specifics of these tables - but what was argyls thoughtprocess behind listing brands alongside the tables?


2. What is the experience of people who both use D3s and Reference Meters which don't depend on correction tables. Does the "white LED" offset still make sense with newer TVs? Do Sony LCDs stand out in any way (besides the whole quantum dots and RGB LED product lines).

or

3. Is the difference in a range where the factory deviation of 0.4 dE between devices takes place and therefore no congruent answer could be given, regardless.

edit: Oh how fun... Just found the following on chromapures website:
Quote:
The Display 3's accuracy is reasonably consistent when reading CRTs, plasmas, and front projector screens. The biggest problem by far lies with LCDs. Using the Standard mode the Display 3 may read one LCD very accurately and yet be off on another. It is difficult to achieve consistency when reading LCDs. Contrary to one widely-repeated myth, this is not an issue directly related to the difference between CCFL backlit and LED backlit displays. Some LED displays actually give the colorimeters less trouble than their CCFL counterparts. Also, the Display 3 can maintain considerably different levels of accuracy when comparing two CCFL displays. The problem isn't with LED backlighting. The problem is LCDs period. To address this problem, the Display 3 PRO ships with 7 different LCD modes. We may add additional LCD modes as needed
http://www.chromapure.com/products-d3pro.asp

Last edited by harlekin; 07-04-2014 at 12:01 AM.
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post #3826 of 4282 Old 07-03-2014, 03:36 PM
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Furthermore - Chromapure lists far more operating modes than correction tables that are within argyl and therefore HCFR:

Quote:
Operating Modes

Generic LCD
Samsung Standard LCD
Samsung LED
Sony Standard LCD
Sony LED
LG LED
LG Standard LCD
DLP Rear Projection
CRT
Plasma
LED Front Projection-Screen
LED Front Projection-Lens
Front Projection-Screen
Front Projection-Lens

Anyone having any comment on that? Or if possible, even data?

edit: Ok, I see that Chromapure uses these correction tables to upsell on their own "Pro" version of the meter and I've also stumbled upon correction tables Zoyd provided for specific TVs.

So I guess my question is - is there a general consensus on how Sony LED backlight TVs and the i1D3 work together?

Last edited by harlekin; 07-03-2014 at 04:51 PM.
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post #3827 of 4282 Old 07-03-2014, 04:35 PM - Thread Starter
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I've uploaded another 305 test version (_b) that fixes the two bugs harlekin found and adds user defined colors. On the reference page colorchecker dropdown select USER and the program will read colors from the comma separated file colors.csv in the main program directory. An example file of 250 random colors is provided with the installation package. Each color is defined as a PC level R,G,B triplet and up to 1000 colors can be read. The CIE diagram is a bit slow to load with 1000 colors though. The two attached thumbnails show a 1000 point simulation run and a 250 point real display measure.
@harlekin - The .ccss correction descriptive text is provided by X-rite in the edr files, I do not know anything more specific about how they are derived or how they compare to what chromapure uses.



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post #3828 of 4282 Old 07-03-2014, 05:25 PM
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Ok so I created a 3dlut and enabled in madvr.

How to I get the graphs in hcfr of the final result
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post #3829 of 4282 Old 07-03-2014, 05:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crakarjax View Post

Then I get errors about a missing "res\\refcc24sat.bmp" file, which I cannot locate.
You probably downloaded the master tree which is not up-to-date. You need to download the snapshot here. I'm not sure about how things would go with visual studio express, I'm using VS2010 ultimate.

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post #3830 of 4282 Old 07-03-2014, 05:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harlekin View Post

And just to give you an indication about the "worst 10%" (avg dE) value: One Single increment in red Bias was the difference between a value of 3.2 and 2.47 (avg of the 9 or ten colors it looks at). Thats how sensitive this indicator is, or at least can be.

So all that is left for me at this point is to find someone that can educate me on if the skewed sample of colors in Color Checker SG (it is skewed as in "you have more points in certain sectors") also does represent "visual importance" as in "more noticeable". I mean, why would have photographers chosen it as a standard else wise?
That's a nice result for an onboard CMS, I wouldn't think you would need to LUT your device. The "worst 10%" rounds up so for the CCSG it will average the 10 worst colors.

As for the Color checker selections they contain alot of memory colors, so they should weight the performance towards colors that would be more noticeably wrong like skintones and natural greens and blues.
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post #3831 of 4282 Old 07-03-2014, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
You probably downloaded the master tree which is not up-to-date. You need to download the snapshot here. I'm not sure about how things would go with visual studio express, I'm using VS2010 ultimate.
I cloned from master with git and then did "git checkout -b zoyd" which I assume would be your branch -- is that not the case?
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post #3832 of 4282 Old 07-03-2014, 06:50 PM - Thread Starter
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That will create a new local branch.

do: git clone -b zoyd git://git.code.sf.net/p/hcfr/code hcfr-code

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post #3833 of 4282 Old 07-03-2014, 07:22 PM
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Is there a bug tracker set up for the project? If not, I might suggest moving to github as they have a great issue tracker there, and loads of other features.

In any case:
- Web updates don't seem to be working
- I get a message saying "error during generator initialisation" when trying to use the internal pattern generator
- Using larger screen, Y target values are still covered up by horizontal scrollbar
- Is it possible to make different page elements resizeable?
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post #3834 of 4282 Old 07-03-2014, 08:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crakarjax View Post
- Is it possible to make different page elements resizeable?
second this request!
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post #3835 of 4282 Old 07-03-2014, 11:39 PM
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Thanks for the heads up regarding the ccss files.

I hate these moments when "trust your meter" breaks as a dogma.

Last edited by harlekin; 07-04-2014 at 01:03 AM.
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post #3836 of 4282 Old 07-04-2014, 01:29 AM
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To use the color.csv file (USER color space) with the test build on Win7-64 at least, HCFR has to be started from the Programs directory directly (doubleclick the .exe) and not using a shortcut, otherwise it wont load the csv files colors.

Windows execution privileges i assume.. Or bug. Or a set flag in the shortcut link (didnt look that one up)?
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post #3837 of 4282 Old 07-04-2014, 02:01 AM
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there may be a bug on the gamma chart with 3.1.4.0, on both my systems the reference line does not move with preferences, but instead reflects measured gamma.
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post #3838 of 4282 Old 07-04-2014, 03:07 AM
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Some impressions of the new color checker option on my part (same tv set, configurated against the white LED correction matrix setting, but with the increased red gain that worked especially well against the "non refresh display" preset):

Used the provided 250 colors csv file.

It helped me assess the impact of the hue slider, as setting it to R1 especially impacts the region where Color Checker SG measures most of its points (dE (when not compensated) is highest in the skin tone vector above the lighter skin tones starting with the darker bronze ones, 5M (my highest dE) also lies in this vector.). I now see that over a larger spectrum of colors the R1 setting has a very minimal negative impact.


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post #3839 of 4282 Old 07-04-2014, 03:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harlekin View Post
To use the color.csv file (USER color space) with the test build on Win7-64 at least, HCFR has to be started from the Programs directory directly (doubleclick the .exe) and not using a shortcut, otherwise it wont load the csv files colors.

Windows execution privileges i assume.. Or bug. Or a set flag in the shortcut link (didnt look that one up)?
If you add the path to the executable directory to the shortcut "start in" box it works. I'll fix that.

Quote:
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there may be a bug on the gamma chart with 3.1.4.0, on both my systems the reference line does not move with preferences, but instead reflects measured gamma.
That is intended behavior, if you want to use the power law gamma target instead of your measured gamma, uncheck "use measured gamma".

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post #3840 of 4282 Old 07-04-2014, 05:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crakarjax View Post
Is there a bug tracker set up for the project? If not, I might suggest moving to github as they have a great issue tracker there, and loads of other features.
no bug tracker and no desire to move project.

Quote:
Originally Posted by crakarjax
In any case:
- Web updates don't seem to be working
- I get a message saying "error during generator initialisation" when trying to use the internal pattern generator
- Using larger screen, Y target values are still covered up by horizontal scrollbar
- Is it possible to make different page elements resizeable?
-web updates is disabled as it's the old 2.x version code, any volunteers?
-generator initialization error means you tried to run an internal/madVR pattern set with the DVD generator selection
-to view the Y targets, click the little down arrow next to "editable data" to expand the window
-resizable page elements would need a complete UI overhaul, too much work atm.

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