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post #3961 of 3988 Old 07-09-2014, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
btw, exactly what setting in CM are you changing that corresponds to your FULL and SMPTE lines?
Just this one checkbox (Luminance Levels):


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ps: If you are using the power law formula in HCFR make sure you have unticked "use measured gamma"
And suddenly I feel like such a fool... "use measured gamma" was checked. But Calman CC doesnt even do a greyscale - doesnt it... *hehe*
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post #3962 of 3988 Old 07-09-2014, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
Take one of your already filled-in gray scale runs and place 0.005 into the 0% Y box, the other two boxes should fill in automatically (you may have to enter it twice).


Ok I will later. I'm going to try the 2.35 I have calibrate. So 40-100 is 2.35 already.

Once I edit it I have to lower the gamma to 2.2 from 0-30.

I have a question. On the greyscale 0-100 when I click one some of them they are not even close to all bring a 100% but still shows a low dE of around 0.5. Is this because I edited the gamma and not the gain and offsets?

Is this ok
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post #3963 of 3988 Old 07-09-2014, 09:57 AM
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*flipping a coin*
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post #3964 of 3988 Old 07-09-2014, 11:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harlekin View Post
Just this one checkbox (Luminance Levels):
ok, I'm just guessing but the very very small average dE difference you see between using video or full luminance level scales might be due to rounding errors when converting PC to video levels.

take the full-range pattern triplet 45:117:200. This gets displayed for either setting so the display luminance will be the same (within stability tolerance)

In full range stimulus this is 17.647%:45.882%:78.431%

Now if CM works in a way that it converts to a video triplet first before it calculates dE then you would get:

Mapped to video range and rounded that is 55:116:188

and in stimulus this is 17.808%:45.662%:78.539%

That's assuming it does the conversion in 8 bits.
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post #3965 of 3988 Old 07-09-2014, 12:22 PM
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Sorry if this has been covered but:

Is it possible to run HCFR using an i1d2 in windows 8?

I'm coming up short with whatever I try. My laptop I used to use for calibration (that runs windows 7) is having issues that make it very irritating to calibrate with.

I'd love to get it going on this new win8 laptop, if I can.
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post #3966 of 3988 Old 07-09-2014, 12:34 PM
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I have used my id3 on windows 8 laptop no experience with a id2 though.
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post #3967 of 3988 Old 07-09-2014, 12:37 PM
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Zoyd. I was able to out the 0.005 in I did have to put it into two spots. Have me a value of Y 1.000.
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post #3968 of 3988 Old 07-09-2014, 12:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanHomsey View Post
Sorry if this has been covered but:

Is it possible to run HCFR using an i1d2 in windows 8?
Should be no problem, make sure you have updated the driver to the ArgyllCMS libusb0 one in the drivers folder.
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post #3969 of 3988 Old 07-09-2014, 12:48 PM
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but why is the curve off?


I have it ticked and 0
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post #3970 of 3988 Old 07-09-2014, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
Should be no problem, make sure you have updated the driver to the ArgyllCMS libusb0 one in the drivers folder.
Excuse my ignorance but, how do I update the driver to the "ArgyllCMS libusb0" one?

I located the .sys file you're referring to, in the HCFR directory under drivers.

I have the drivers from xrite for the i1d2 downloaded/unzipped, waiting patiently in a desktop folder.

*Quick Update*: I attempted to install the driver (via control panel / devices) "libusb0.sys" from the HCFR drivers ia64 folder (is this the correct one?, there's also amd64 and x86 folders with a "libusb0.sys" file). It seemed to go through an install successfully. But I still do not see the sensor in the dropdown menu when I start a new calibration in HCFR (version 3.1.3).

**Figured it out**: I needed to install the drivers and point to the drivers folder, which installed the appropriate argyll driver. and it is now working in win8.

Thanks for the help!

Last edited by RyanHomsey; 07-09-2014 at 02:38 PM.
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post #3971 of 3988 Old 07-09-2014, 01:12 PM
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Great video (imho) to see the impact of color correction (thoze colors are not realz! omg! ) in post processing:
http://vimeo.com/100095868

(Game of Thrones, no spoilers)
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post #3972 of 3988 Old 07-09-2014, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harlekin View Post
Great video (imho) to see the impact of color correction (thoze colors are not realz! omg! ) in post processing:
http://vimeo.com/100095868

(Game of Thrones, no spoilers)
Did u just do that
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post #3973 of 3988 Old 07-09-2014, 01:32 PM
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Did u just do that
Are you taking offense to there being spoilers? In all honesty and with knowledge of plot development and visual story telling - I don't see any (mostly establishing shots of locations, transitioning shots, ...). If you do - I'll set a spoiler warning asap.
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post #3974 of 3988 Old 07-09-2014, 01:53 PM
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Are you taking offense to there being spoilers? In all honesty and with knowledge of plot development and visual story telling - I don't see any (mostly establishing shots of locations, transitioning shots, ...). If you do - I'll set a spoiler warning asap.

No was wondering if you did the editing that's all I don't watch that show.

And you know the reason my curve is so low?
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post #3975 of 3988 Old 07-09-2014, 02:08 PM
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*phew*... No, just got linked to it through my news feeds and thought it was fitting to show the difference in material that goes through a post process. So much of color nowadays is "mood" and "intentional" - without the scene becoming artificial looking.

So at least a part of evaluating cinematic material becomes esthetics as well. Another reason to rely on meters.. (Most people love their vibrant colors... *hrmph* )
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post #3976 of 3988 Old 07-09-2014, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by harlekin View Post
*phew*... No, just got linked to it through my news feeds and thought it was fitting to show the difference in material that goes through a post process. So much of color nowadays is "mood" and "intentional" - without the scene becoming artificial looking.

So at least a part of evaluating cinematic material becomes esthetics as well. Another reason to rely on meters.. (Most people love their vibrant colors... *hrmph* )

Hahahha agree there was a big difference there.

There must be a setting I am missing.
I am editing data black to .005 and clocking 1886 box with absolute 0 and it puts the graph line starting at like 1.3- 1.4 instead of 2.2
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post #3977 of 3988 Old 07-09-2014, 02:11 PM
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Regarding the curve - yeah - don't calibrate for that..

Probably because your whitepoint isnt that bright? It guess it was a shot in the dark by zoyd and worth at least a try. If no one comes up with a better explanation - just stick to your 2.2 and 2.35s.
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post #3978 of 3988 Old 07-09-2014, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by harlekin View Post
Regarding the curve - yeah - don't calibrate for that..

Probably because your whitepoint isnt that bright? It guess it was a shot in the dark by zoyd and worth at least a try. If no one comes up with a better explanation - just stick to your 2.2 and 2.35s.
Hmmmm interesting maybe should I open my iris open my projector for brighter image.
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post #3979 of 3988 Old 07-09-2014, 02:26 PM - Thread Starter
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It guess it was a shot in the dark by zoyd and worth at least a try.
never. He's just not following directions very well.


Last edited by zoyd; 07-09-2014 at 02:38 PM.
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post #3980 of 3988 Old 07-09-2014, 02:45 PM
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Whats a 0,005 between friends..
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post #3981 of 3988 Old 07-09-2014, 04:41 PM
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never. He's just not following directions very well.

Hahahha I'll try either Saturday or Sunday I can't the next two days thanks though
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post #3982 of 3988 Old Yesterday, 04:05 AM
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How to create your own random colors.csv file with excel for use with HCFR:

- Open a new excel sheet.
- Enter function =RANDBETWEEN(0,255) in cells A1, B1 and C1 (function may be called differently depending on your language settings)
- mark A1, B1 and C1
- drag the right bottom corner of the marked selection downwards - stop at the line number corresponding with the amount of colors you would like HCFR to check later.
- save the file as colors.csv (not as a .xls)
- open colors.csv with the texteditor of your choice (Notepad++ recommended for Windows ( http://notepad-plus-plus.org/ ) )
- replace all semicolons ( ; ) with commas ( , ) (crtl+F > replace)
- save the file
- optional: open the file in excel again to check for duplicates (data/remove duplicates)
- save the file

Done.

To use the file within HCFR, copy colors.csv into its install directory and from there start the .exe (HCFR) with a double click.

zoyd has stated before that using more than a few hundred values might slow down HCFR in the CIE triangle view.

Last edited by harlekin; Yesterday at 04:25 AM.
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post #3983 of 3988 Old Yesterday, 05:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harlekin View Post
Great video (imho) to see the impact of color correction (thoze colors are not realz! omg! ) in post processing:
http://vimeo.com/100095868

(Game of Thrones, no spoilers)
Yes, this is how the industry works, but they used 3D LUT calibrated monitors to decide which color to use. This the whole calibration idea, to match your home monitor as close as possible to the specs that the post-production monitors were calibrated or how the producers wanted each film to look to the theatrical with DCI P3 colorspace and later to home video for REC.709 colorspace.

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post #3984 of 3988 Old Yesterday, 01:39 PM
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Ehm. You put me in a tough spot.

All of what you've just mentioned is well known and initially thought of by myself not even worth explaining to anyone who has taken two hours out of his/her days to read up on calibration, or even just these forums - and yet you manage to make it sound so incredibly patronizing and knowledge heavy at the same time...

On the other hand, I respect what you have done for this community as a whole, so Im in no position to openly confront you about it.

It really depends on who you were trying to address I guess..

So... Thanks?

edit: I think I've a problem with someone trying to explain to me the concept and the importance of standards in a production/reproduction chain, because I've experienced the nuances of adhering to certain standards in other fields for years. (And am very cautious to things like changing specs mid cycle, without an official adaptation (like gamma...)).

Last edited by harlekin; Yesterday at 01:49 PM.
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post #3985 of 3988 Old Yesterday, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harlekin View Post
Ehm. You put me in a tough spot.

All of what you've just mentioned is well known and initially thought of by myself not even worth explaining to anyone who has taken two hours out of his/her days to read up on calibration, or even just these forums - and yet you manage to make it sound so incredibly patronizing and knowledge heavy at the same time...

On the other hand, I respect what you have done for this community as a whole, so Im in no position to openly confront you about it.

It really depends on who you were trying to address I guess..

So... Thanks?

edit: I think I've a problem with someone trying to explain to me the concept and the importance of standards in a production/reproduction chain, because I've experienced the nuances of adhering to certain standards in other fields for years. (And am very cautious to things like changing specs mid cycle, without an official adaptation (like gamma...)).
Sorry but I don't understand the reason of your post, I didn't say anything for you personally and I don't know each one's background behind one forum nickname... this is an open forum that we are sharing calibration experience/knowledge, failures/ succesfull results etc.....everything. I did't replyed to teach you anything, or to showcase that I'm skilled and deeper involved in calibration industry etc.

I replyed to your post that as you mentioned that these colors were not real.....yes they are not real, nothing is real in Hollywood. If we don't try to follow the specs... there is not point to loose time to calibrate displays then.

Good evening.

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You were patronizing thats all. Let me lead you by the hand to this conclusion.

"Not realz" was used to pinpoint potential viewers of the content to what is going on in front of their eyes - using over emphatic language (omg! tze zedsz!) to indicate that this probably is not meant as significant, heartfelt criticism towards tze realzness of colors in the first place..? It was preceded by a discussion about which material to use for critical viewing, where "post processed" came up in 90% of the cases - followed by a discussion about the importance of esthetics in judging color performance nowadays.

Where you suddenly did find the need to rush in with "but they all use the same (standardized) color palette - let me tell you as much!", well *doh*. To know that may be the first prerequisite of "what you actually are doing" when even reading about calibration.

Your other significant input was that they all use 3D LUT calibrated monitors in post. When on the previous pages we had exchanges about for which error margins this actually would be reasonable - while you currently have an ongoing trend to bt1886 gamma - because "most post processing was still done on CRTs, which favor 2.4-2.5" (how about that as a fudge factor?). While edging at sensibilities that the color processing could be added to each and every TV in production for mere cents (instead of 700 dollar boxes), calibration then could be fully automated on the factory side - fully making the job of a calibrator redundant (while adding 30 minutes to the production process). Also TV reviewers then could be discussing "how black the black is they just saw" again and feel that they contribute value to buying decisions.

You mention rightly that you cant deduce the background of each person you are conversing with on these forums - and thats actually my entire point. Maybe start with don't talking to them like imbeciles who don't know the first thing about calibration. ("You see, theres something we call a standard, you, see?") As a rough guideline.
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post #3987 of 3988 Old Today, 04:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harlekin View Post
You were patronizing thats all. Let me lead you by the hand to this conclusion.

"Not realz" was used to pinpoint potential viewers of the content to what is going on in front of their eyes - using over emphatic language (omg! tze zedsz!) to indicate that this probably is not meant as significant, heartfelt criticism towards tze realzness of colors in the first place..? It was preceded by a discussion about which material to use for critical viewing, where "post processed" came up in 90% of the cases - followed by a discussion about the importance of esthetics in judging color performance nowadays.

Where you suddenly did find the need to rush in with "but they all use the same (standardized) color palette - let me tell you as much!", well *doh*. To know that may be the first prerequisite of "what you actually are doing" when even reading about calibration.

Your other significant input was that they all use 3D LUT calibrated monitors in post. When on the previous pages we had exchanges about for which error margins this actually would be reasonable - while you currently have an ongoing trend to bt1886 gamma - because "most post processing was still done on CRTs, which favor 2.4-2.5" (how about that as a fudge factor?). While edging at sensibilities that the color processing could be added to each and every TV in production for mere cents (instead of 700 dollar boxes), calibration then could be fully automated on the factory side - fully making the job of a calibrator redundant (while adding 30 minutes to the production process). Also TV reviewers then could be discussing "how black the black is they just saw" again and feel that they contribute value to buying decisions.

You mention rightly that you cant deduce the background of each person you are conversing with on these forums - and thats actually my entire point. Maybe start with don't talking to them like imbeciles who don't know the first thing about calibration. ("You see, theres something we call a standard, you, see?") As a rough guideline.
Congrats for writing all these words that are not helping anyone here and are making no sense...but it's ok if that post make you feel like you know some calibration basics or makes you expert.

Just read/keep the postings that you found useful and avoid the ones you find boring, just skip my every post for example.

From my side there is no need to reply more to your personal attack to me without any reason.

AVSForum users/readers knows me here a lot of years, and they all see that your response was not needed with that tone to me.

Good luck to whatever you do or makes you happy. I have nothing to discus more, we are already of-topic in this thread and our posts are not helping anyone using HCFR.
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post #3988 of 3988 Old Today, 07:18 AM
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Hello all, I'm planning on calibrating my Sony W905(UK W900) tonight using the latest HCFR and my new i1 Display Pro 3. It's been a few years since I did my last set using an i1 Display 2 and an older version of HCFR.

Skimming through this thread, am I right in thinking that I'm best off using a combination of the AVS709 greyscale patterns for white balance and the GCD 75% saturation patterns for colours? My W905 only has 2-point white balance and no CMS anyway.

Cheers.
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