HCFR - Open source projector and display calibration software - Page 145 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 156Likes
Reply
Thread Tools
post #4321 of 5535 Old 09-25-2014, 03:19 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Planet Dog
Posts: 5,239
Mentioned: 52 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 578 Post(s)
Liked: 505
zoyd is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4322 of 5535 Old 09-25-2014, 03:24 PM
Advanced Member
 
spacediver's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Toronto
Posts: 949
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 122 Post(s)
Liked: 77
ah found it!
spacediver is offline  
post #4323 of 5535 Old 09-25-2014, 03:51 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Stereodude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Detroit Metro Area
Posts: 10,404
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 833 Post(s)
Liked: 729
Quote:
Originally Posted by spacediver View Post
Ok I see the graph of the free measures, but how do I copy and paste the values?

http://i61.tinypic.com/21cwhv6.png
Pick Free Measures in the view section then CTRL + A and CTRL + C
Stereodude is online now  
post #4324 of 5535 Old 09-25-2014, 08:41 PM
AVS Special Member
 
fierce_gt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 5,231
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1198 Post(s)
Liked: 1208
whoa, I've been missing something HUGE here.


the delta luminance for color.


I never noticed it, and I was always wondering how I'm supposed to know if I should increase one color or decrease the others. I saw a couple of posts talking about this, and when I got home I fired up the laptop to check my old calibrations to see how badly I screwed it up, and I can't. the last box is cut off. even when I scroll all the way, I only see about the top half of that last line. and some of the numbers look like they could be quite high, but it's hard to tell the difference between +86 and -.86 when you can't see the whole thing...


I can't find anyway to resize these windows within the program, my laptop is maxed out at 1200x800 and I can only assume the program expects a higher resolution, and that's what is causing the issue. any suggestions to try? I thought stuff was kind of off on my colors, even though the dots are touching the boxes, and this would explain why.


edit: I figured out how to extend that window, my luminance is WAY off, haha

Displays: Samsung PN64F8500/JVC X35
AVR: Pioneer VSX-1018AH, 5.1 audio
Sources: HTPC(Mediabrowser), PS3, XBOX360, Wii, Sony DVP-CX995V
Control: Harmony One

Last edited by fierce_gt; 09-25-2014 at 08:54 PM.
fierce_gt is online now  
post #4325 of 5535 Old 09-25-2014, 10:01 PM
Advanced Member
 
orion2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 731
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 452 Post(s)
Liked: 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post
whoa, I've been missing something HUGE here.


the delta luminance for color.
Yeah, I've noticed that a LOT of people end up missing out on targeting Luminance levels. The CIE chart is a bit misleading because the color space is really 3D with the out of plane axis being Luminance. Everyone seems to be seduced by the rec709, CIE chart image and we all love obsessing over getting all the circles to line up nicely in all the squares, but a lot of us call it a day when we get close to this . Some of us only look at the CIE chart for hue/saturation alignment and only at 100%. Some of us take more effort to match saturations over the entire 25-100% range, and that helps a lot in picture quality. But then the last bit is to properly dial in luminance.

The easiest way to figure out how to adjust RGB values in the CMS for me was to recognize that subtracting/adding a primary color will move the target spot along the same color axis on the CIE chart. So if the Red luminance is way too high, but red saturation targets all line up nicely, you know that you need to reduce R,G,B values in the CMS to lower luminance but still want to maintain the same x,y co-ordinates on the CIE chart. The way to do this is to reduce R by 1 or 2, and then recognize that a combination of subtracting G and B will push you back towards red (think vector sum). It is a bit tedious, but saturation sweeps for single colors are quite fast, and once you get the hang of it and the intuition of how to adjust CMS values to better match target luminance values, things go a lot faster.

Hope you manage to dial in the luminance values.
orion2001 is offline  
post #4326 of 5535 Old 09-26-2014, 12:11 AM
AVS Special Member
 
rickardl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 2,012
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
Liked: 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by orion2001 View Post
The easiest way to figure out how to adjust RGB values in the CMS for me was to recognize that subtracting/adding a primary color will move the target spot along the same color axis on the CIE chart. So if the Red luminance is way too high, but red saturation targets all line up nicely, you know that you need to reduce R,G,B values in the CMS to lower luminance but still want to maintain the same x,y co-ordinates on the CIE chart. The way to do this is to reduce R by 1 or 2, and then recognize that a combination of subtracting G and B will push you back towards red (think vector sum). It is a bit tedious, but saturation sweeps for single colors are quite fast, and once you get the hang of it and the intuition of how to adjust CMS values to better match target luminance values, things go a lot faster.
With the method I described for a RGB CMS. you don't have to bother with looking at the CIE chart or with x,y values.
Just go for the individual R G B values, very easy.
rickardl is offline  
post #4327 of 5535 Old 09-26-2014, 01:32 AM
AVS Special Member
 
HDTVChallenged's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 8,771
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post
whoa, I've been missing something HUGE here.


the delta luminance for color.
Be careful with this value ... the numbers don't always "match up" with expected REC709 values. Chromaticity of the primaries as well as the specific RGB balance required to reach D65 must be taken into account. IOW, a delta-Y of +15% from REC709 for blue may actually be "correct" for your specific display/blue primary and if you move it to +/- 0% you'll just wind up with washed out "de-saturated" blues. As far as I know, HCFR has never adjusted these delta-Y values wrt the primary chomaticities.

Of course, the CMS implementation will further muddy the water. Beware.

PS: This is a case where paying attention to the overall dE value of the color might well keep one from making a "fatal" mistake. If the dE goes up when you reduce the Delta-Y value ... stop what you're doing and back away slowly.

Last edited by HDTVChallenged; 09-26-2014 at 01:39 AM.
HDTVChallenged is offline  
post #4328 of 5535 Old 09-26-2014, 05:24 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Planet Dog
Posts: 5,239
Mentioned: 52 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 578 Post(s)
Liked: 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post
whoa, I've been missing something HUGE here.
Good read before hitting the CMS.
zoyd is online now  
post #4329 of 5535 Old 09-26-2014, 06:08 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Stereodude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Detroit Metro Area
Posts: 10,404
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 833 Post(s)
Liked: 729
Which ΔE formula does HCFR 3.1.6 use when you pick recommended?
Stereodude is online now  
post #4330 of 5535 Old 09-26-2014, 07:35 AM
AVS Special Member
 
fierce_gt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 5,231
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1198 Post(s)
Liked: 1208
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
Good read before hitting the CMS.
thank you I've been there(i'll scan it again, maybe some things will help more now that I've played a bit). I tried to find as much info as possible before I even attempted the CMS(main reason my first couple of calibrations I left the CMS alone).

problem I had was nothing really told you WHAT to do. tons and tons of theory on why you should do things, and what things are. but I never found anything that specifically stated how to use a cms and hfcr to calibrate colors. it was from pure trial and error that I figured out how to move the points around on the x,y plane, and as I said, the delta luminance didn't even show up on my list until I figured out how to extend that display box.

so it hasn't been an issue with not knowing that color was a x,y,z value. it was that I had no idea I could check that z value. I've been looking at the x and y being in roughly the right area, and trying to figure out why my De's are 4-7. now that I know it's there, i'm excited to finally get these deltas down!

Displays: Samsung PN64F8500/JVC X35
AVR: Pioneer VSX-1018AH, 5.1 audio
Sources: HTPC(Mediabrowser), PS3, XBOX360, Wii, Sony DVP-CX995V
Control: Harmony One
fierce_gt is online now  
post #4331 of 5535 Old 09-26-2014, 08:28 AM
Advanced Member
 
xvfx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 850
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 168 Post(s)
Liked: 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
Which ΔE formula does HCFR 3.1.6 use when you pick recommended?
uv76 without gamma for greyscale and CIE2000 for colour.

Relative uv76 shows worse errors. From reading that article, CIE94 sounds better than CIE2000 for CMS?….
xvfx is offline  
post #4332 of 5535 Old 09-26-2014, 12:06 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Planet Dog
Posts: 5,239
Mentioned: 52 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 578 Post(s)
Liked: 505
I just pushed a new build under the same version # 3.6.1 that fixes the bug where sometimes the program starts in averaging mode. There is also a new switch in preferences->appearance that allows you to move the pop-ups off center for those calibrating on the same screen where the program is running. This doesn't include set-up and preference dialogs, only pop-ups that require a click.
zoyd is online now  
post #4333 of 5535 Old 09-26-2014, 12:15 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Planet Dog
Posts: 5,239
Mentioned: 52 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 578 Post(s)
Liked: 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post
so it hasn't been an issue with not knowing that color was a x,y,z value. it was that I had no idea I could check that z value. I've been looking at the x and y being in roughly the right area, and trying to figure out why my De's are 4-7. now that I know it's there, i'm excited to finally get these deltas down!
It's pretty easy in the current version since the display controls will now line up with the RGB indicators (or HSV if using that type system). So the goal is to get each bar at 100% just like the gray scale calibration. You don't have to know where each control moves the color in x,y space, if for example the red indicator is 105% for the color you are measuring, lower the red control a couple of clicks.
zoyd is online now  
post #4334 of 5535 Old 09-26-2014, 12:21 PM
AVS Special Member
 
fierce_gt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 5,231
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1198 Post(s)
Liked: 1208
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
It's pretty easy in the current version since the display controls will now line up with the RGB indicators (or HSV if using that type system). So the goal is to get each bar at 100% just like the gray scale calibration. You don't have to know where each control moves the color in x,y space, if for example the red indicator is 105% for the color you are measuring, lower the red control a couple of clicks.
I don't have the program in front of me, but am I doing this looking at the 'graph' in the bottom left of the measurements page, or do I have to look at the values(switch it to RGB?) in the chart?

it sounds straightforward, but until I get my hands dirty, I won't know what things confuse me, haha.

Displays: Samsung PN64F8500/JVC X35
AVR: Pioneer VSX-1018AH, 5.1 audio
Sources: HTPC(Mediabrowser), PS3, XBOX360, Wii, Sony DVP-CX995V
Control: Harmony One
fierce_gt is online now  
post #4335 of 5535 Old 09-26-2014, 12:35 PM
Advanced Member
 
orion2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 731
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 452 Post(s)
Liked: 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickardl View Post
With the method I described for a RGB CMS. you don't have to bother with looking at the CIE chart or with x,y values.
Just go for the individual R G B values, very easy.
I don't think your approach is correct. I don't follow the logic behind it. There is no reason why the primary colors should measure absolute zero values for the other colors. Ultimately, you should go by dE and delta Luminance values to determine the right setting.
orion2001 is offline  
post #4336 of 5535 Old 09-26-2014, 12:45 PM
AVS Special Member
 
LastButNotLeast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: 08077
Posts: 5,221
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 445 Post(s)
Liked: 371
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
I just pushed a new build under the same version # 3.6.1 that fixes the bug where sometimes the program starts in averaging mode. There is also a new switch in preferences->appearance that allows you to move the pop-ups off center for those calibrating on the same screen where the program is running. This doesn't include set-up and preference dialogs, only pop-ups that require a click.
You mean 3.1.6, but MANY thanks for moving the pop-ups.

Michael

Fusion 8 Alchemy LCR, now $1000: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/209-au...1200-firm.html
Downloadable FREE demo discs: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/150-bl...=bd9+demo+disc
Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
LastButNotLeast is offline  
post #4337 of 5535 Old 09-26-2014, 12:46 PM
Advanced Member
 
orion2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 731
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 452 Post(s)
Liked: 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
It's pretty easy in the current version since the display controls will now line up with the RGB indicators (or HSV if using that type system). So the goal is to get each bar at 100% just like the gray scale calibration. You don't have to know where each control moves the color in x,y space, if for example the red indicator is 105% for the color you are measuring, lower the red control a couple of clicks.
Neat! That sounds great! Should make CMS calibration easier. I assume that these indicators and the numbers they show should be independent of choice of dE formula and just dependent on rec709?
orion2001 is offline  
post #4338 of 5535 Old 09-26-2014, 01:42 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Stereodude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Detroit Metro Area
Posts: 10,404
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 833 Post(s)
Liked: 729
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
It's pretty easy in the current version since the display controls will now line up with the RGB indicators (or HSV if using that type system). So the goal is to get each bar at 100% just like the gray scale calibration. You don't have to know where each control moves the color in x,y space, if for example the red indicator is 105% for the color you are measuring, lower the red control a couple of clicks.
That's not how it worked for me last night (I updated to 3.1.6) For example, when doing Red the red bar didn't normalize to 100%. I had to use the dE bar to set the red to the proper luminance.

Also, I noticed if you lower the saturation to 75% in the preferences the bars / target for the free / continuous measures don't display valid data.
Stereodude is online now  
post #4339 of 5535 Old 09-26-2014, 02:02 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Planet Dog
Posts: 5,239
Mentioned: 52 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 578 Post(s)
Liked: 505
yes, free measures is not set-up for real time targeting, this is only available for the gray scale and primaries/secondaries pages. You'll have to post a picture of what you mean by "not normalizing". In all the color space modes including 75% Rec709 the targets normalize to 100% provided you are withing 0.05 deltaxy of your desired target. If you are outside that range the bars will not work.

edit: Another condition in which the bars won't balance is if one of the native primaries is undersaturated, there needs to be some amount of adjustment given to the opposing primaries in order for the scheme to work. Likewise at 75% saturation you should have your measured gamma close to but not less than your target gamma (or use the "as measured" switch). A measured gamma less than target will create a similar "undersatured primaries" condition.

Last edited by zoyd; 09-26-2014 at 03:18 PM.
zoyd is online now  
post #4340 of 5535 Old 09-26-2014, 03:48 PM
AVS Special Member
 
fierce_gt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 5,231
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1198 Post(s)
Liked: 1208
ok, well was excited to try this, so as soon as i got home i tried to fix my colors.

first, the delta luminances were anywhere from -6% to +30%, for the most part, WAY off. the De's were mostly in the 3-8 range for primaries and secondaries. saturations were about the same. the CIE chart however, looked pretty decent.

after doing the adjustments based on JUST the chart(De, and delta luminance) i got some pretty great results!










only problem is, the CIE chart now looks like this('much' worse than before)


the before:


now i assume this is where i would start looking at the 75% saturation values, and adjust to them. my question is, should i basically be trading De's at 100%(which are all under .5) to try and reduce De's at 75%, 50%, and 25%(several are over 4)? and what's the deal with teh CIE chart, should i even really worry about it?

Displays: Samsung PN64F8500/JVC X35
AVR: Pioneer VSX-1018AH, 5.1 audio
Sources: HTPC(Mediabrowser), PS3, XBOX360, Wii, Sony DVP-CX995V
Control: Harmony One
fierce_gt is online now  
post #4341 of 5535 Old 09-26-2014, 04:10 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Stereodude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Detroit Metro Area
Posts: 10,404
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 833 Post(s)
Liked: 729
Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post
only problem is, the CIE chart now looks like this('much' worse than before)


now i assume this is where i would start looking at the 75% saturation values, and adjust to them. my question is, should i basically be trading De's at 100%(which are all under .5) to try and reduce De's at 75%, 50%, and 25%(several are over 4)? and what's the deal with teh CIE chart, should i even really worry about it?
I did not have any luck using 75% points instead of 100%. The results ended up being worse. My advice would be to increase your saturation ie: "Color" control a few clicks until the 25, 50, & 75% points move out in the CIE chart some and repeat the process of dialing in your primary colors. You may have to do this a few times (I ended up at 57 for color I think), but you should be able to get the magenta, yellow, cyan, and green to line up pretty well on the CIE chart with a low dE for 25, 50, 75, and 100% points. Most likely the Red and Blue will not line up well on the CIE chart but you can still get a reasonable dE. The red will be the worst. I ultimately adjusted the CMS for the Red and Blue via repeated Red and Blue saturation sweeps to find the Red and Blue values (respectively) that gave the lowest average and max dE for that color.

Also, you may want to take a 20 (21) point grayscale measurement as well. Some ugly things hide between the 10 (11) point measurements if you've made a lot of 10 point adjustments.

Last edited by Stereodude; 09-26-2014 at 04:16 PM.
Stereodude is online now  
post #4342 of 5535 Old 09-26-2014, 04:15 PM
Advanced Member
 
orion2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 731
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 452 Post(s)
Liked: 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post
now i assume this is where i would start looking at the 75% saturation values, and adjust to them. my question is, should i basically be trading De's at 100%(which are all under .5) to try and reduce De's at 75%, 50%, and 25%(several are over 4)? and what's the deal with teh CIE chart, should i even really worry about it?
Imho, you should focus on minimizing dE and delta Luminance in the 25-75% range. What you will find with Red, is that your 100% Red will be oversaturated by quite a bit, but your 100% saturation luminance will be a few percent below the target value (if you target luminance values in the 25-75% saturation range). This will work in your favor as oversaturated colors can be improved in perception by countering them with a lower luminance value for the color.

My calibration results on my F5300 may be a useful point of reference as I think your F8500 has a very similar behavior: Samsung PN60F5300 calibration settings?

I'll include the CIE chart from my calibration below to illustrate how my Reds turned out when I used saturation sweep measurements to minimize dE and delta luminance across the 25-75% range.

fierce_gt likes this.
orion2001 is offline  
post #4343 of 5535 Old 09-26-2014, 04:24 PM
Advanced Member
 
orion2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 731
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 452 Post(s)
Liked: 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
I did not have any luck using 75% points instead of 100%. The results ended up being worse. My advice would be to increase your saturation ie: "Color" control a few clicks until the 25, 50, & 75% points move out in the CIE chart some and repeat the process of dialing in your primary colors. You may have to do this a few times (I ended up at 57 for color I think), but you should be able to get the magenta, yellow, cyan, and green to line up pretty well on the CIE chart with a low dE for 25, 50, 75, and 100% points. Most likely the Red and Blue will not line up well on the CIE chart but you can still get a reasonable dE. The red will be the worst. I ultimately adjusted the CMS for the Red and Blue via repeated Red and Blue saturation sweeps to find the Red and Blue values (respectively) that gave the lowest average and max dE for that color.

Also, you may want to take a 20 (21) point grayscale measurement as well. Some ugly things hide between the 10 (11) point measurements if you've made a lot of 10 point adjustments.
Maybe this is a F8500 thing, but this really shouldn't be the case. Color should be set using the Blue only mode on the TV and the flashing color pattern (AVS709 has it) to set color and tint. On my F5300, Color of 50 is spot on in Movie mode, and 44 for Standard mode. As I understand it, Color setting determines the ratio/balance between saturation and luminance of colors on the set. Once Color is set correctly, you use the CMS controls for each color to find the best tradeoff that minimized dE and delta Luminance across the 25-75/100% range.

I think there is quite a bit he can still try with CMS settings to get a better overall CIE chart and dE values. Fierce, if you'd like, you could post your current CMS settings and I'd be happy to suggest some tweaks to try if you have trouble targeting the 25-75% range.
orion2001 is offline  
post #4344 of 5535 Old 09-26-2014, 04:27 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Stereodude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Detroit Metro Area
Posts: 10,404
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 833 Post(s)
Liked: 729
Quote:
Originally Posted by orion2001 View Post
Maybe this is a F8500 thing, but this really shouldn't be the case. Color should be set using the Blue only mode on the TV and the flashing color pattern (AVS709 has it) to set color and tint. On my F5300, Color of 50 is spot on in Movie mode, and 44 for Standard mode. As I understand it, Color setting determines the ratio/balance between saturation and luminance of colors on the set. Once Color is set correctly, you use the CMS controls for each color to find the best tradeoff that minimized dE and delta Luminance across the 25-75/100% range.
You got me... I had a CIE chart that looked like his and was able to get it to look like this (better, but still not perfect) using the method I mentioned. You have a nice looking CIE chart. What are your dE's?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	CIE_F8500_CMS_2.png
Views:	32
Size:	192.2 KB
ID:	281233   Click image for larger version

Name:	F8500_CMS_data_2.png
Views:	28
Size:	88.5 KB
ID:	281241  

Last edited by Stereodude; 09-26-2014 at 04:36 PM.
Stereodude is online now  
post #4345 of 5535 Old 09-26-2014, 04:35 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Stereodude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Detroit Metro Area
Posts: 10,404
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 833 Post(s)
Liked: 729
By the way zoyd, there seems to be a problem with the delta luminance value for the blue 100% saturation. It displays a $. Fierce and I are both showing the same thing in our screenshots.
Stereodude is online now  
post #4346 of 5535 Old 09-26-2014, 04:39 PM
Advanced Member
 
orion2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 731
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 452 Post(s)
Liked: 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
You got me... I had a CIE chart that looked like his and was able to get it to look like this (better, but still not perfect) using the method I mentioned.
Could I ask what your CMS setting for Red is at the moment? Even though the dE numbers for red seem low enough, I found that when my calibration looked as below (first time I calibrated using 100% saturation targets) that lower saturation colors did look undersaturated. This was most visible in bright 3D animated movies where there seemed to be a lack of "pop" to the image and a bit of a whitish haze to the image. When I got the calibration to look like the plot from a couple of posts back, the improvement was quite noticeable.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
By the way zoyd, there seems to be a problem with the delta luminance value for the blue 100% saturation. It displays a $. Fierce and I are both showing the same thing in our screenshots.
That's just HCFR acknowledging that you guys are high rollers with your fancy pants F8500 sets
orion2001 is offline  
post #4347 of 5535 Old 09-26-2014, 04:44 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Stereodude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Detroit Metro Area
Posts: 10,404
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 833 Post(s)
Liked: 729
Quote:
Originally Posted by orion2001 View Post
Could I ask what your CMS setting for Red is at the moment?
R: 27
G: 6
B: 5

Color (saturation) is set to 58.
Stereodude is online now  
post #4348 of 5535 Old 09-26-2014, 04:50 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Stereodude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Detroit Metro Area
Posts: 10,404
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 833 Post(s)
Liked: 729
Quote:
Originally Posted by orion2001 View Post
Color should be set using the Blue only mode on the TV and the flashing color pattern (AVS709 has it) to set color and tint.
I'm not sure about that. If your set has perfect RGB Rec709 primaries that might be usable. However, a set with primaries that need adjustment with the CMS that's likely to not work since there are other color mixed in with blue to get it where it's supposed to be. Blue only will likely turn off the Red and Green component that "Blue" needs. With a meter and software like HCFR you don't need a pattern like that.
Stereodude is online now  
post #4349 of 5535 Old 09-26-2014, 04:53 PM
Advanced Member
 
orion2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 731
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 452 Post(s)
Liked: 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
R: 27
G: 6
B: 5

Color (saturation) is set to 58.
Could you try:
R: 28
G: 4
B: 1

and remeasure you red sweep whenever you get the chance? I think your high Color setting is robbing you of some headroom in your cms settings since the numbers seem on the low side, but the numbers above should push you out a bit more and hopefully lower dE a bit.

PS - I think all my 25-75% dE values are <0.5
orion2001 is offline  
post #4350 of 5535 Old 09-26-2014, 05:01 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Planet Dog
Posts: 5,239
Mentioned: 52 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 578 Post(s)
Liked: 505
The color control if implemented properly raises and lowers color luminance, not saturation. On Samsungs there is usually no need to use it but if you can't hit your luminance target for one of the colors you can try to compensate with this control.
zoyd is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Display Calibration



Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off