HCFR - Open source projector and display calibration software - Page 158 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 76Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #4711 of 4722 Old 10-23-2014, 01:20 AM
Senior Member
 
karrih's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 257
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
Very nice. Turn off the individual colors (right click) since they don`t mean anything anyway.
The colors could go separate ways while gray would still be ok.
karrih is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4712 of 4722 Old 10-24-2014, 07:36 AM
AVS Special Member
 
nebrunner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: omaha,NE,USA
Posts: 1,128
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 28
I got the contrast and brightness set, the gamma is pretty steady at 2.2, the color temp scale says I'm right about 6500 but this is the best that I could get the RGB to line up, I could get some areas closer but then it throws both ends way out of wack. Is this "good enough" or am I way off?


My perpetual home theater build - Omaha Theater #5
nebrunner is offline  
post #4713 of 4722 Old 10-24-2014, 07:59 AM
Advanced Member
 
orion2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 631
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 388 Post(s)
Liked: 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by nebrunner View Post
I got the contrast and brightness set, the gamma is pretty steady at 2.2, the color temp scale says I'm right about 6500 but this is the best that I could get the RGB to line up, I could get some areas closer but then it throws both ends way out of wack. Is this "good enough" or am I way off?
Not bad. But it looks like your blue and red are clipping out at 100% white resulting in the color shift at 100% white. You might want to try lowering your Green setting for 100IRE and redo the entire process. You will likely find that in that case you would be able to better track red and blue with green all the way to 100IRE. I also wouldn't worry about largish differences in RGB at 10%IRE or lower.
orion2001 is online now  
post #4714 of 4722 Old 10-24-2014, 08:44 AM
AVS Special Member
 
ConnecTEDDD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 2,368
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 104 Post(s)
Liked: 487


Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTVChallenged View Post
Furthermore, proper technique should allow you to avoid any potential pitfalls. Note that the pattern is titled "Pre-Calibration Tools" at which point you're only concerned with contrast and black levels ... I don't know what else (color wise) you could adjust to "fix" a clipping problem here especially for Y,C or M.
There cases where you need to reduce the color slider to prevent clipping of RGBCMY colors the same time that you have no problem for White clipping or it's needed to reduce further the contrast slider to prevent clipping of RGBCMY color bars.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS + CalMAN ColorChecker
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, CalPC, ControlCAL
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5

Last edited by ConnecTEDDD; 10-24-2014 at 08:51 AM.
ConnecTEDDD is offline  
post #4715 of 4722 Old 10-24-2014, 10:41 AM
AVS Special Member
 
HDTVChallenged's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 8,489
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
There cases where you need to reduce the color slider to prevent clipping of RGBCMY colors the same time that you have no problem for White clipping or it's needed to reduce further the contrast slider to prevent clipping of RGBCMY color bars.
Sure, absolutely, 100% correct. There's still a pattern on the GCD disk that does the same thing.

Furthermore, on the basic AVS-HD flashing bar "contrast pattern," all one needs to do is make sure the flashing bars are not "discolored" compared to the white background that is recorded at 254 (or perhaps even 255.) The human eye is very good at this task (assuming normal color vision, of course.)

Your pattern certainly helps removes any doubt, but it's not absolutely "necessary."
HDTVChallenged is offline  
post #4716 of 4722 Old 10-24-2014, 11:40 AM
Advanced Member
 
xvfx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 695
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 107 Post(s)
Liked: 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTVChallenged View Post
Your pattern certainly helps removes any doubt, but it's not absolutely "necessary."
This reminds me from watching the Steve 'Jobs' film the other night.

“Everything is important- that success is in the details.”

― Steve Jobs
xvfx is online now  
post #4717 of 4722 Old 10-24-2014, 11:48 AM
AVS Special Member
 
ConnecTEDDD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 2,368
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 104 Post(s)
Liked: 487
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTVChallenged View Post
Furthermore, on the basic AVS-HD flashing bar "contrast pattern," all one needs to do is make sure the flashing bars are not "discolored" compared to the white background that is recorded at 254 (or perhaps even 255.)
I haven't used to my any disk pattern the levels 255 (and 0 also) because these levels are reserved for synchronization data.

Levels 1 to 254 are available for video.


Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS + CalMAN ColorChecker
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, CalPC, ControlCAL
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
ConnecTEDDD is offline  
post #4718 of 4722 Old 10-24-2014, 12:17 PM
Advanced Member
 
CheYC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 619
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 50
Reading this thread always makes me want to calibrate my display again, but at the same time makes me afraid to do so.

CheYC is offline  
post #4719 of 4722 Old 10-24-2014, 11:40 PM
AVS Special Member
 
HDTVChallenged's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 8,489
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
I haven't used to my any disk pattern the levels 255 (and 0 also) because these levels are reserved for synchronization data.

Levels 1 to 254 are available for video.
Well then, 254 it must be.

That contrast pattern (on the AVS-HD disk) also happens to create one of my favorite optical delusions ... You would swear that as you're reducing contrast on a color clipping display, that it's the flashing bars changing color, when in fact, it's the color of the background white that changes as you fix the clipping issue of R, G, or B channel.
HDTVChallenged is offline  
post #4720 of 4722 Old Yesterday, 02:47 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
zoyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Planet Dog
Posts: 4,725
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 257 Post(s)
Liked: 361
Just tying up some loose ends now that I have an F8500 to play around with

Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
Now that orion has me obsessing about saturations in addition to just primaries and secondaries (thanks for that, I think ), I have discovered a discrepancy.

If I run Measures -> Saturations -> All colors and make that the reference (which, in the examples below, have very good dEs), with some colors, running Measures -> Saturations -> Green (for example) gives me dramatically different readings (note "dE / ref"):

So, for now, if I make any changes to a color, I'm running the saturation sweep for all colors, just to be on the safe side. I think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
It looks like you are running into the same problem LBNL was running into with the first pattern of the saturation sweeps reading luminance too low. The panel has some delay in it before it reaches the requested pattern level.
The mysterious disappearing luminance on the first one or two patterns of a sweep is due to the panel turning itself off under some situations. When in standard mode the panel will go into "no picture" mode pretty quickly when no signal is present and when in movie mode if your brightness is set a a couple of clicks low this will happen too. When this happens and you start a sweep it takes the panel a couple of seconds to display an image which will affect the start of a measurement sequence. You can prevent this by moving an edge of a window onto your extended desktop.


Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post
we're getting closer, but it still seems like color at 50 just isn't going to get me the best results.
There were a couple of pages of discussion on the color setting and both stereodude and fierce_gt were finding they achieve better CMS results when raising the color control. It seems that the F8500 CMS is designed to be fairly well aligned in for example the saturation sweeps, but only for a gamma target of 2.2 and somewhat undersaturated for BT.1886 or > 2.2 average gamma. This is different than how previous samsung CMS's have behaved in which everything was oversaturated including gamma target values of 2.4. So there is no headroom to desaturate the pseudo-primaries in the 75%/75% colorspace. This can be counteracted by raising the color control. I found that color=55 was a good fit for an effective BT.1886 2.4 target.
zoyd is offline  
post #4721 of 4722 Old Yesterday, 03:36 PM
AVS Special Member
 
fierce_gt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,150
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 697 Post(s)
Liked: 871
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

There were a couple of pages of discussion on the color setting and both stereodude and fierce_gt were finding they achieve better CMS results when raising the color control. It seems that the F8500 CMS is designed to be fairly well aligned in for example the saturation sweeps, but only for a gamma target of 2.2 and somewhat undersaturated for BT.1886 or > 2.2 average gamma. This is different than how previous samsung CMS's have behaved in which everything was oversaturated including gamma target values of 2.4. So there is no headroom to desaturate the pseudo-primaries in the 75%/75% colorspace. This can be counteracted by raising the color control. I found that color=55 was a good fit for an effective BT.1886 2.4 target.
haha, too funny that you just made this post...


I just put together a new HTPC, and spent most of the day today messing with calibration again. the last I'd done, I used my ps3 so I was trying to adjust things using the pc controls only. there were a few issues with that, that aren't really worth getting into, and one of the things I was forced to change was using RGB output, and having it set to limited. with full, there was no setting for brightness that would not show dithering in 'black'.


anyway, I started off the afternoon trying to get things to work with color at 50, and 2hrs later said f-it, I'm going back to the increased color setting. by that time, I was a bit too annoyed with everything to run numerous sweeps and figure out what the 'best' setting for color was, so I think I just set it to 60 and went from there. I didn't manage all my dE's under 3, but I definitely had better results with my old PC.


but now that I'm sitting here, it's nice to know that this isn't a compromise I'm making to use my HTPC, it's just the way the tv needs to be for a certain gamma. my priority right now though is to get the projector dialed in with the new HTPC. once that's done, I might re-visit the f8500

Displays: Samsung PN64F8500/JVC X35
AVR: Pioneer VSX-1018AH, 5.1 audio
Sources: HTPC(Mediabrowser), PS3, XBOX360, Wii, Sony DVP-CX995V
Control: Harmony One
fierce_gt is online now  
post #4722 of 4722 Old Yesterday, 04:50 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
zoyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Planet Dog
Posts: 4,725
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 257 Post(s)
Liked: 361
zoyd is offline  
Reply Display Calibration

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off