HCFR - Open source projector and display calibration software - Page 160 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4771 of 6332 Old 11-03-2014, 09:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
Which is why I've been looking forward to a wiki, but I seem to be a minority of one.
BTW, I was talking about the r/g/b of an individual color, one at a time.
Right ... I assumed your CMS controls were of the RGB type vs HCL/HSV type. That would add an extra layer or two of potential frustration and confusion.

The problem with developing the one wiki to rule them all, is that it seems like every display has it's own quirks, pitfalls. So it's actually quite daunting to distill all of this calibration "stuff" into a concise and understandable document. Even the top level pros struggle at times (see Quattron and OLED discussions.) Specifically, the procedure I use to dial in the CMS on my displays may not work at all on your Samsung due to the RGB vs. HCL/HSV differences. I'm sure I'd have to tweak the process a bit.
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post #4772 of 6332 Old 11-03-2014, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTVChallenged View Post
I'm sure I'd have to tweak the process a bit.
Would that not still be easier than reinventing the wheel?
I'm doing color now. Then gamma (which I didn't know how to do until it was discussed here). Then my "final" run of grayscale (since I've found just about everything affects grayscale - actually, everything affects everything else ).
So even a simple (relatively speaking) flowchart would get someone started, with side comments added about the difference in approach when dealing with one technology vs. another.
Again, just wishful thinking.
AustinJerry started a "simple" guide to REW that's now version 3.9 and 100 pages. But it's a godsend for anyone interesting in tackling the program and room acoustics.

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post #4773 of 6332 Old 11-03-2014, 10:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 22point8 View Post

If I want to adjust gamma with 10 point, should I do it using the 8/25 patterns, or the small APL patterns on the AVS709 disk (the native gamma), I can get bt1886 if I adjust the gamma with the small APL patterns, but what I have above is the best I could do with the 8/25 patterns (for 2.2). Or is it a case of see what it looks like with content?
Using the small APL patterns are fine, don't worry about it.

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For SD is there any way to disable overscan (probably from the service menu)?
Not that I know of, when my display is sent 480i is does not do any overscan.

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Is there a trick for enabling cal day/night from the service menu or is it just a 'not in europe' situation.
This was a problem in D-series also, no way to enable it in European firmware.
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post #4774 of 6332 Old 11-03-2014, 01:29 PM
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One question...Is there any possibility that calibration images generated inside HCFR would be somehow changed by computer when projected over HDMI? I think I got different readings when using AVSHD 709 images from USB stick directly on Samsung Media Player and images generated by HCFR running on MacBook Pro in VMWare Fusion over HDMI...
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post #4775 of 6332 Old 11-03-2014, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
Using the small APL patterns are fine, don't worry about it.



Not that I know of, when my display is sent 480i is does not do any overscan.



This was a problem in D-series also, no way to enable it in European firmware.
Ok, I used the AVS709 small APL windows to do the BT1886, which also flattened the gamma with 8%/25APL, and then I measured regular 8% windows and still had a BT1886 gamma.

Code:
BT1886 Gamma 8% window

Target/Actual
10)2.18/2.14
20)2.25/2.25
30)2.28/2.29
40)2.30/2.31
50)2.31/2.31
60)2.32/2.33
70)2.32/2.34
80)2.33/2.32
90)2.33/2.33
AVERAGE 2.29

8% windows 25% APL
10)2.22
20)2.24
30)2.26
40)2.27
50)2.28
60)2.29
70)2.29
80)2.28
90)2.32
AVERAGE 2.27
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post #4776 of 6332 Old 11-03-2014, 10:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
Would that not still be easier than reinventing the wheel?
A basic battle plan:

1) Contrast (and Backlight for LCDs)
2) Brightness
3) Evaluate Greyscale ... find the best color temp preset, check for color clipping
4) Calibrate Greyscale, repeat contrast, brightness and color clipping checks
5) Gamma: Find best gamma preset, then dial-in your desired gamma/luminance curve with multipoint greyscale controls (if available) ... recheck previous work.
6) Color: a) basic color/tint controls or b) Use CMS to dial in R.709 colors ... recheck everything again.
7) Use color-checker targets as the final overall check.

Of course, the devil is in the details. Each of the steps above have various conditions and sub-steps which will depend on the individual display being calibrated. Furthermore, in some cases it might be easier to swap the order of steps 5(gamma) and 6(color/CMS) ... depending on how linearly the display operates.

That's the what ... the why and how is where things get "interesting" and divergent. Frankly, I'm not sure I could come up with a single flow chart to cover just the two displays I'm currently maintaining.

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post #4777 of 6332 Old 11-04-2014, 07:11 AM
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Excellent. The first footnote would be that adjusting gamma is done by comparing Y to "Target Y," which was a point I was missing for years.
Which reminds me of step 0: The little down arrow that expands the data window!
See, isn't this fun?!

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post #4778 of 6332 Old 11-04-2014, 11:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
Excellent. The first footnote would be that adjusting gamma is done by comparing Y to "Target Y," which was a point I was missing for years.
Which reminds me of step 0: The little down arrow that expands the data window!
See, isn't this fun?!

Michael
Note really ... gives me headache. I'm the *wrong* person to attempt anything like this. I'm the type that just clicks on stuff until I figure out to work the program and use it effectively. Mistakes have been made ... hours of work round-filed ...

I don't particularly enjoy the process of calibration, it's about one and a half steps up from doing housework on enjoyometer. I was actually relieved that my new PJ only has 2 point greyscale control ...
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post #4779 of 6332 Old 11-06-2014, 07:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTVChallenged View Post
A basic battle plan:

1) Contrast (and Backlight for LCDs)
2) Brightness
3) Evaluate Greyscale ... find the best color temp preset, check for color clipping
Is there a way to set each of these using meter readings or is it purely by looking at patterns and making a visual assessment? I'm new to HCFR but plan on giving it a go with my new Display 1 I just purchased. Thanks
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post #4780 of 6332 Old 11-06-2014, 07:46 AM
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I'd like to install my new i1d3... Should I just let Windows search for and install the driver or download a driver from the X-Rite site? Also, I previously had a Spyder 2 device and installed Argyll to get it to work. Do I need Argyll anymore? Thanks
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post #4781 of 6332 Old 11-06-2014, 08:06 AM
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Use the drivers that are included in the HCFR drivers directory (ArgyllCMS.inf)
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post #4782 of 6332 Old 11-06-2014, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spacediver View Post
Use the drivers that are included in the HCFR drivers directory (ArgyllCMS.inf)
Thanks, when I look at my device manager, it shows the i1Display Pro is listed under...

Argyll LibUSB-win32 devices
> Eye-One Display 3 (Argyll)

Is this correct?
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post #4783 of 6332 Old 11-06-2014, 08:26 AM
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i believe so. try it and see if it works.
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post #4784 of 6332 Old 11-06-2014, 09:41 AM
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Do I need a correction matrix? I'm calibrating a Sharp Aquos LCD... what setting should I pick in the attached screen shots? There are several choices for display type, not sure which is correct.
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Last edited by carillon; 11-06-2014 at 09:52 AM.
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post #4785 of 6332 Old 11-06-2014, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carillon View Post
Is there a way to set each of these using meter readings or is it purely by looking at patterns and making a visual assessment? I'm new to HCFR but plan on giving it a go with my new Display 1 I just purchased. Thanks
Both visually and with a meter. Contrast, brightness and color clipping are visual checks, however you'll need the meter to set contrast/backlight for your desired reference white level output.

Greyscale and color temp. preset evaluation requires the meter to check ... basically find which presets are closest to D65.

In fact, while you're at it go ahead an run the full greyscale, color primary/secondary and color saturation sweeps just to get an idea of how far you need to go to dial everything in.
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post #4786 of 6332 Old 11-06-2014, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTVChallenged View Post
Both visually and with a meter. Contrast, brightness and color clipping are visual checks, however you'll need the meter to set contrast/backlight for your desired reference white level output.

Greyscale and color temp. preset evaluation requires the meter to check ... basically find which presets are closest to D65.

In fact, while you're at it go ahead an run the full greyscale, color primary/secondary and color saturation sweeps just to get an idea of how far you need to go to dial everything in.
Thanks, I have the AVS and GCD disks, which one should I use with HCFR and for visual checks... does it matter?
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post #4787 of 6332 Old 11-06-2014, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by carillon View Post
Thanks, I have the AVS and GCD disks, which one should I use with HCFR and for visual checks... does it matter?
AVS is probably better for the visual contrast and brightness patterns ... The blink rate on the GCD disk doesn't suit my eyes very well. GCD is probably easier for everything else (meter related.) Just be sure to check or uncheck the levels rounding block appropriately for the disk in use: "Use round down for ..."

PS: Sorry, I don't know the right answer for your correction "matrix" question.
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post #4788 of 6332 Old 11-06-2014, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by carillon View Post
Do I need a correction matrix? I'm calibrating a Sharp Aquos LCD... what setting should I pick in the attached screen shots? There are several choices for display type, not sure which is correct.
You did not provide your TV model, but I believe Sharp only uses white LED backlight anyway, so please choose LCD White LED IPS from the drop-down list. Do not touch sensor matrix as it is used to calibrate your meter with a spectroradiometer for increased accuracy whilst still maintaining a colorimeter's high speed and its ability to take very dark readings.
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post #4789 of 6332 Old 11-06-2014, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTVChallenged View Post
Just be sure to check or uncheck the levels rounding block appropriately for the disk in use: "Use round down for ..."
Where do I find this check box? Thanks
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post #4790 of 6332 Old 11-06-2014, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by numen View Post
You did not provide your TV model, but I believe Sharp only uses white LED backlight anyway, so please choose LCD White LED IPS from the drop-down list.
It is a Sharp Aquos LC-52LE700UN. Thanks
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post #4791 of 6332 Old 11-06-2014, 11:35 AM
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It is a Sharp Aquos LC-52LE700UN.
Yes, this one uses a white LED backlight.
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post #4792 of 6332 Old 11-06-2014, 02:45 PM
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Yes, this one uses a white LED backlight.
Thanks! I'm going to attempt a run. We'll see how it goes.

Okay, first question... sorry but I'm really new with HCFR. I'm using the GCD disk, should I use 10% Windows with or without APL? I also set it for 75%/75% in HCFR so I'm planning on using those patterns in GCD when running the colors.

Last edited by carillon; 11-06-2014 at 02:50 PM.
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post #4793 of 6332 Old 11-06-2014, 03:17 PM
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Baby steps... I just did a grayscale run after setting the Contrast and Brightness visually using the clipping patterns on the GCD disk. Here are my results after adjusting the Lo and Hi settings for color temperature. Is this acceptable before moving on the colors? Thanks
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post #4794 of 6332 Old 11-06-2014, 04:05 PM
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wow, peak white is 242 cd/m^2 - maybe I'm completely wrong here, but that seems really bright.
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post #4795 of 6332 Old 11-06-2014, 04:32 PM
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wow, peak white is 242 cd/m^2 - maybe I'm completely wrong here, but that seems really bright.
I'm calibrating it for a bright room. Using 70ftL as my contrast setting.
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post #4796 of 6332 Old 11-06-2014, 04:48 PM
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cool, I don't have enough experience to comment on that. Your delta Es look pretty good on the neutral axis, apart from peak white - I wonder if the brightness being that high has something to do with it (I remember something about how having peak white too high can introduce a pink tinge).
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post #4797 of 6332 Old 11-06-2014, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by spacediver View Post
cool, I don't have enough experience to comment on that. Your delta Es look pretty good on the neutral axis, apart from peak white - I wonder if the brightness being that high has something to do with it (I remember something about how having peak white too high can introduce a pink tinge).
I'm a rookie so I could be way off here. My situation is that I have a bright room and I need to calibrate for it. I'll bump it down to 60 ftL and see how the grayscale looks.

Last edited by carillon; 11-06-2014 at 05:13 PM.
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post #4798 of 6332 Old 11-06-2014, 05:14 PM
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Here's my new grayscale at 60 ftL.
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post #4799 of 6332 Old 11-06-2014, 05:21 PM
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Ok, so the brightness wasn't much of a problem (although be careful that it doesn't cause eye strain!).

looks like you've got a good starting point.
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post #4800 of 6332 Old 11-06-2014, 05:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spacediver View Post
Ok, so the brightness wasn't much of a problem (although be careful that it doesn't cause eye strain!).

looks like you've got a good starting point.
So next up, I'll move to the colors. My TV has a CMS for all colors for Hue, Saturation and Value. I have some reading to do in order to figure out how to dial the colors in.
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