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post #4891 of 4916 Old 11-18-2014, 12:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 22point8 View Post
I don't know how but PC mode (Native Colourspace) has lower maximum dE2000 than calibrated Movie (Custom colourspace) in the USER (551 measures) colorchecker, I was inspired to remeasure the saturation tracking at 10% intervals by a post above.
I'm surprised the color luminances in PC mode are so good. I think fierce_gt mentioned that PC mode was overall pretty accurate. As far as your comparison goes I wouldn't put too much emphasis on the difference between those max points. If you look at the average performance the calibrated movie mode has a tighter error distribution with avg=0.75 vs. 1.18 and worst 10% of 1.74 vs. 2.14. The main problem with using PC mode is that you can't adjust gamma.

Did you check to make sure that PC mode doesn't shadow the custom color settings? I mean if you set custom color back to default values, does PC mode still measure as well?

Last edited by zoyd; 11-18-2014 at 12:15 PM.
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post #4892 of 4916 Old 11-18-2014, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
I'm surprised the color luminances in PC mode are so good. I think fierce_gt mentioned that PC mode was overall pretty accurate. As far as your comparison goes I wouldn't put too much emphasis on the difference between those max points. If you look at the average performance the calibrated movie mode has a tighter error distribution with avg=0.75 vs. 1.18 and worst 10% of 1.74 vs. 2.14. The main problem with using PC mode is that you can't adjust gamma.

Did you check to make sure that PC mode doesn't shadow the custom color settings? I mean if you set custom color back to default values, does PC mode still measure as well?
From memory it measures that well regardless, but I'd have to wait until tomorrow to remeasure now. Its only in PC mode that Native measures well. Also in PC mode the gamma seems to average 2.2 between a wider range of window patterns and has less ABL. For my PS3 I really like PC mode.

BTW have you seen what an Xbox 360 does to gamma? http://filmicgames.com/archives/14
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post #4893 of 4916 Old 11-19-2014, 12:15 PM - Thread Starter
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@22point8 Ever look at the skin tone setting? I found after a setting of +3 or +4 optimized the skin tone set after initial calibration.
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post #4894 of 4916 Old 11-19-2014, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
@22point8 I found after a setting of +3 or +4 optimized the skin tone set after initial calibration.
Could you explain a bit more about it?
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post #4895 of 4916 Old 11-19-2014, 12:49 PM - Thread Starter
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On my 8500 there is a skin tone slider. After I calibrated using normal settings I adjusted this slider using the skin tone patch set and (average, max) went from (1.17,2.42) to (0.72,1.6) at a slider position of +4, so it appears to have some benefit. The CCSG set was also reduced from (1.0, 3.0) to (0.8,2.5).
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post #4896 of 4916 Old 11-19-2014, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
On my 8500 there is a skin tone slider. After I calibrated using normal settings I adjusted this slider using the skin tone patch set and (average, max) went from (1.17,2.42) to (0.72,1.6) at a slider position of +4, so it appears to have some benefit. The CCSG set was also reduced from (1.0, 3.0) to (0.8,2.5).
I also got a F8500 but never tried that setting. yet.
Edit: It is called "Flesh Tone" on my European set...

Last edited by rickardl; 11-19-2014 at 01:18 PM.
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post #4897 of 4916 Old 11-19-2014, 01:41 PM - Thread Starter
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post #4898 of 4916 Old 11-19-2014, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
@22point8 Ever look at the skin tone setting? I found after a setting of +3 or +4 optimized the skin tone set after initial calibration.
I use -2, it actually does affect the colour checker SKIN, called Flesh Tone on mine.
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Anyway I did as you requested and returned [Custom] to default and remeasured [PC Native] and it was the same.

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NATIVE
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CUSTOM (DEFAULT)
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CUSTOM (CALIBRATED)
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PC NATIVE (Custom Default)
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PC NATIVE (Custom Calibrated)
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post #4899 of 4916 Old 11-20-2014, 03:39 AM
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For my F8500, I got the impression Native was the same as Custom with the Default settings.
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post #4900 of 4916 Old 11-20-2014, 07:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 22point8 View Post

Anyway I did as you requested and returned [Custom] to default and remeasured [PC Native] and it was the same.
Thanks, I was just curious because I checked PC mode on my display and it is pretty far off. Tracking looks similar to yours but luminance is way off, probably because it uses standard mode which is quite different on the 8500 from movie mode. Standard mode puts out roughly twice the amount of light as movie mode for same contrast/cell settings.
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post #4901 of 4916 Old 11-20-2014, 08:11 AM
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Did any of you happen to capture the gamut of a Pioneer KRP-500 at different saturation levels? Could you please share the chart? (-> If you are interested about any other PDP charts, just let me know and I will see if I have it saved somewhere.) The reason I ask.

"DIY certified hobby-calibrator" (based on ChadB's "warning signs" list
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post #4902 of 4916 Old 11-20-2014, 01:36 PM
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Can someone explain to me under Preferences->BT.1886. What is the point of AVg Gamma set to 2.27? I don't quite understand that.

Is that what the average will be if BT.1886 is used with a target gamma of 2.4 as per the spec?
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post #4903 of 4916 Old 11-20-2014, 04:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Average gamma is not a setting, it's the average of your measured gamma. The only time it is used for anything is to report average gamma on the gray scale measures page and to calculate color targets if you have "Display Gamma" selected along with "Use measured Gamma".

The average gamma you end up with if you calibrate to BT.1886 will depend on your black level and weather you set it to absolute or effective = x.x.
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post #4904 of 4916 Old 11-21-2014, 03:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
CMS won't affect gamma but white balance controls might depending on what you change. It looks like all you need to do is tweak the blue gain and bias and that won't move the gamma response.



For RGB balance you need to use the white balance controls as these affect the neutral axis only. Get that correct before moving on to the CMS, that will help your secondary hue values as well. The CMS controls are used for hue, saturation, and color luminance (not RGB balance).
Thanks for the advice zoyd. It worked like a charm! I tweaked the Blue Gain and IREs in the White Balance menu, and the RGB and CIE diagrams look much better now. Oddly enough, although my Gamma curve did not change by those tweaks, the target curve (BT.1886) moved from being quite close to my Gamma curve to not so close any more! Why does that happen? Am I supposed to match my calibration to a moving target?!

Anyway, I have another question:
To do this calibration, I have borrowed my friend's Spyder4 and used the latest HCFR with Argyll drivers. I have to say it works very well.
However, I have been considering for more than a year now buying a i1 Display Pro for the same job. Every time I am about to shell out the cash, I use my friend's Spyder4 to achieve very good dEs for grayscale and colour and postpone the purchase. My question is, is it worth spending ~€190 (here in Europe) for a i1 Display Pro, after having done the calibration with the Spyder? Will I notice the difference? People say the i1 is more accurate at the low-luminosity end. But for that price, and the fact that I will probably only use it once a year, will it pay off?

Thanks.
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post #4905 of 4916 Old 11-21-2014, 03:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anoutsos View Post
Thanks for the advice zoyd. It worked like a charm! I tweaked the Blue Gain and IREs in the White Balance menu, and the RGB and CIE diagrams look much better now. Oddly enough, although my Gamma curve did not change by those tweaks, the target curve (BT.1886) moved from being quite close to my Gamma curve to not so close any more! Why does that happen? Am I supposed to match my calibration to a moving target?!
If the BT.1886 target moved that means your 0% measurement changed, the overall level of the curve depends on your black level. So make sure you have a stable black level measurement.

Quote:
Anyway, I have another question:
To do this calibration, I have borrowed my friend's Spyder4 and used the latest HCFR with Argyll drivers. I have to say it works very well.
However, I have been considering for more than a year now buying a i1 Display Pro for the same job. Every time I am about to shell out the cash, I use my friend's Spyder4 to achieve very good dEs for grayscale and colour and postpone the purchase. My question is, is it worth spending ~€190 (here in Europe) for a i1 Display Pro, after having done the calibration with the Spyder? Will I notice the difference? People say the i1 is more accurate at the low-luminosity end. But for that price, and the fact that I will probably only use it once a year, will it pay off?

Thanks.
No way to answer that, I wouldn't expect a huge difference but I can't predict how much you would notice.

Last edited by zoyd; 11-21-2014 at 03:46 AM.
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post #4906 of 4916 Old 11-21-2014, 05:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
Average gamma is not a setting, it's the average of your measured gamma. The only time it is used for anything is to report average gamma on the gray scale measures page and to calculate color targets if you have "Display Gamma" selected along with "Use measured Gamma".

The average gamma you end up with if you calibrate to BT.1886 will depend on your black level and weather you set it to absolute or effective = x.x.
Understood. Thanks zoyd.
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post #4907 of 4916 Old 11-21-2014, 07:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
On my 8500 there is a skin tone slider. After I calibrated using normal settings I adjusted this slider using the skin tone patch set and (average, max) went from (1.17,2.42) to (0.72,1.6) at a slider position of +4, so it appears to have some benefit. The CCSG set was also reduced from (1.0, 3.0) to (0.8,2.5).
Every time I think I'm done, you come up with something else.
As it happens, I tried +1 and -1 on my flesh tone setting and results were worse (skin and ccsg), so I'm back to 0.
Guess I did an okay job the first time, though I still can't get CCSG down to 1.0.

Michael

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Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
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post #4908 of 4916 Old 11-21-2014, 09:03 AM
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I downloaded the HCFR program and as required for installation i searched for the "USB_Pilote" drive file necessary to use with the probe and it is not there, period.

I then tried the other download link for direct USB drive and it doesn't work, there is nothing there that can be downloaded.
My brand new probe is the i1 Display Pro and the program that comes with it sucks and now i am wondering if i just spent more money for another piece of junk electronic equipment to add to my vast collection.

Am i the only person finding it so difficult to fully install and use the HCFR program ?
Are there any other recommended free video display calibration programs out there that are easy to install and can be used with the i1 Display Pro ?
Any suggestions and recommendations would be much appreciated, thanks...
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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post #4909 of 4916 Old 11-21-2014, 09:24 AM
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Actually, your brand new wonderful Display Pro should be fine without any additional drivers - it reads as a HUD device. Try rebooting the computer with the i1 connected. You might want to look in "device manager" if you're comfortable doing such things.
Keep in mind that the i1 and its software are not really designed for what we're doing. Fortunately, you can safely ignore their software.
Be patient, this is not the easiest program to use. Not the hardest, but there is a bit of a learning curve.

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Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
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post #4910 of 4916 Old Yesterday, 05:39 AM
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Hi all,

I have just reinstall a new PC (Windows 7 x64 Ultimate Edition) with i1Profiler for my i1 Display Pro and ColorHCFR v3.1.6.
The probe is correctly recognized by ColorHCFR but the correction file list is unfortunately empty, so I cannot select a correction and the result is a red bias in the measurements when I profile my Panasonic ZT60 (on previous PC I used to select D3_generic_plasma)
I have checked that x-rite EDR files have correctly been translated in ccss files into my APPData/Roaming/color directory, but they seem not to be recognized by ColorHCFR.

Does anyone have this kind of issue, and what can I do.


Thank you for help
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post #4911 of 4916 Old Yesterday, 06:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Did you try and select it from the correct dialog? edr files are loaded when selecting the corresponding "Display Type" when setting up the meter.
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post #4912 of 4916 Old Yesterday, 06:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
Did you try and select it from the correct dialog? edr files are loaded when selecting the corresponding "Display Type" when setting up the meter.
I spent some time reading a lot of very interesting post in this thread and I understood that the EDR was in the second dialog box.

I was just surprised because the first Correction File list was empty after reinstalling the sw from zero.

If I well understand, for my ZT60, I don't have to select a meter correction file, but set a display type to : "Plasma (EDR for Plasma...)"
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post #4913 of 4916 Old Yesterday, 06:54 AM - Thread Starter
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post #4914 of 4916 Old Yesterday, 07:21 AM
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Thanks you very much and again for the time you spend developing ColorHCFR.
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post #4915 of 4916 Old Yesterday, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
yes, that's the correct selection.
I have performed some test on a VT30.
There is one thing that I don't understand. If I don't choose any meter correction and the display type as EDR Plasma, when I perform a check on THX mode, the RGB measurements shows that Red level is 10% higher that Green and Blue. As if there was a bias.
Previously with D3_generic_plasma (that has disappeared in my fresh installation) selected in meter correction, the bias was not existing. And I noticed the same thing with ZT60. It is very strange that two differente screens have the same default.

Don't you think that D3_generic_plasma was more accurate for plasma display instead of EDR Plasma ?
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post #4916 of 4916 Old Yesterday, 03:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoryuken31 View Post

Don't you think that D3_generic_plasma was more accurate for plasma display instead of EDR Plasma ?
no because that was my meter and it may not be close to the same response as your meter, it's safer to use the EDR corrections. There is no reason to believe that THX mode is any more accurate than what the EDR corrected probe shows after the panel ages.
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