HCFR - Open source projector and display calibration software - Page 169 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 99Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #5041 of 5061 Old 12-19-2014, 11:45 AM
Advanced Member
 
xvfx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 750
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 125 Post(s)
Liked: 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTVChallenged View Post
PS: In Sony's case, it probably doesn't help that they appear to have a severe allergy to including any type of user adjustable color-management-systems (CMS) on their products.
Why is that?
xvfx is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #5042 of 5061 Old 12-19-2014, 12:49 PM
AVS Special Member
 
LastButNotLeast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: 08077
Posts: 4,921
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 330 Post(s)
Liked: 301
They're afraid of hackers.

Downloadable FREE demo discs:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1475769/de...ently-authored 

Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
LastButNotLeast is offline  
post #5043 of 5061 Old 12-20-2014, 02:55 AM
Newbie
 
CharlieS.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 9
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Where can is see what luminance i need for the color calibration with REC 709 75%/75%?
I just see what luminance i have but not what i need.

Last edited by CharlieS.; 12-20-2014 at 04:05 AM.
CharlieS. is offline  
post #5044 of 5061 Old 12-21-2014, 11:52 AM
AVS Special Member
 
umenon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: United States
Posts: 1,316
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 163 Post(s)
Liked: 31
I am new to the world of calibrating with a hardware.

A couple of weeks ago, I bought a Datacolor S4TV100 Spyder4TV HD and was able to install a custom Spyder4 driver so that HFCR could detect and use it. I did not use any correction file. Should I ?

My new Samsung 4K TV has a 2-pt and 10-pt white balance.

Here is what I did ... I put the TV in Movie/Warm2 mode (with all other gimmicks turned off).

I put the the HFCR software in manual (free-run) mode and first did the 2-pt WB on a 50% grayscale chart and was able to tweak the BlueGain to +7% to get it all even. I then switched to the 10% grayscale charts (from 10%-100%) and tweaked it all using the Red Gain or Blue Gain (did not touch Green). Is that the right way to do it?

I do have a couple of issues. When I try to run the grayscale balance in automatic mode ... the software seems to hurry through all the 10 steps of grayscale. e.g. it does not wait long enough to accurately read the values for the 10% grayscale. I know this because the readings are different when I do the same in manual mode. Is there a way to make the software wait a little longer to take the readings (especially at the lower grayscale levels)?

Also, how does one adjust gamma. I know that when I run the complete 0-100 measurement ... it will show me the Gamma graph. But thats a graph - how do I tweak Gamma? By the way, my Samsung has a single Gamma slider which is applied to the whole range. So how to tweak it across the range?

Also, as I mentioned above, I tweaked the Red Gain or Blue Gain for white balance. I did not touch the Red Offset or Blue Offset. What are they used for? Do they come into play for tweaking Gamma?
umenon is offline  
post #5045 of 5061 Old 12-22-2014, 07:14 AM
AVS Special Member
 
AMartin56's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,218
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 215 Post(s)
Liked: 68
Is it possible to directly compare two meter profiles in HCFR?


The reason I ask is I've had two Colormunki Photo spectros in my possession. I profiled my iD3 off of each of them.



With the original spectro profiling the meter I made the following changes to my previous calibration:-1 red in gain and offset. +1 blue gain.


With the second spectro profile adjusting the calibration I made the following additional changes: +2 Red gain and offset. +1 blue gain.


So effective change between both spectros profiling the same meter was +1 red offset/gain and +2 blue gain.


I would just be curious to see how they arrived at this. The variance doesn't bother me that much since these are entry level meters.

Last edited by AMartin56; 12-22-2014 at 09:40 AM.
AMartin56 is offline  
post #5046 of 5061 Old 12-22-2014, 08:34 AM
AVS Special Member
 
HDTVChallenged's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 8,651
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by AMartin56 View Post
So effective change between both spectros profiling the same meter was +1 redoffset/gain and +2 blue gain.
I would just be curious to see how they arrived at this. The variance doesn't bother me that much since these are entry level meters.
Wouldn't that be +1 for red off/gain and 0 for blue gain? If so, that's probably within "expected" variations for any given display.

Edit: arrgh ... now you got me doing it: +3 red off/gain and 0 for blue. .... arrrrgh again .... now I see what you did. ... Nevermind

Last edited by HDTVChallenged; 12-22-2014 at 08:38 AM.
HDTVChallenged is offline  
post #5047 of 5061 Old 12-22-2014, 08:40 AM
AVS Special Member
 
AMartin56's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,218
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 215 Post(s)
Liked: 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTVChallenged View Post
Wouldn't that be +1 for red off/gain and 0 for blue gain? If so, that's probably within "expected" variations for any given display.

Edit: arrgh ... now you got me doing it: +3 red off/gain and 0 for blue. .... arrrrgh again .... now I see what you did. ... Nevermind
AMartin56 is offline  
post #5048 of 5061 Old 12-22-2014, 09:59 AM
AVS Special Member
 
umenon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: United States
Posts: 1,316
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 163 Post(s)
Liked: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by umenon View Post
I am new to the world of calibrating with a hardware.

A couple of weeks ago, I bought a Datacolor S4TV100 Spyder4TV HD and was able to install a custom Spyder4 driver so that HFCR could detect and use it. I did not use any correction file. Should I ?

My new Samsung 4K TV has a 2-pt and 10-pt white balance.

Here is what I did ... I put the TV in Movie/Warm2 mode (with all other gimmicks turned off).

I put the the HFCR software in manual (free-run) mode and first did the 2-pt WB on a 50% grayscale chart and was able to tweak the BlueGain to +7% to get it all even. I then switched to the 10% grayscale charts (from 10%-100%) and tweaked it all using the Red Gain or Blue Gain (did not touch Green). Is that the right way to do it?

I do have a couple of issues. When I try to run the grayscale balance in automatic mode ... the software seems to hurry through all the 10 steps of grayscale. e.g. it does not wait long enough to accurately read the values for the 10% grayscale. I know this because the readings are different when I do the same in manual mode. Is there a way to make the software wait a little longer to take the readings (especially at the lower grayscale levels)?

Also, how does one adjust gamma. I know that when I run the complete 0-100 measurement ... it will show me the Gamma graph. But thats a graph - how do I tweak Gamma? By the way, my Samsung has a single Gamma slider which is applied to the whole range. So how to tweak it across the range?

Also, as I mentioned above, I tweaked the Red Gain or Blue Gain for white balance. I did not touch the Red Offset or Blue Offset. What are they used for? Do they come into play for tweaking Gamma?
Can someone help?
umenon is offline  
post #5049 of 5061 Old 12-22-2014, 03:26 PM
AVS Special Member
 
AMartin56's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,218
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 215 Post(s)
Liked: 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by umenon View Post
Can someone help?

You should really try to read this. I think it will help.


http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457


And while you lost me with some of your original post I will answer what I can.


You won't have a correction file unless you profile the meter with a spectro (which it sounds like you don't own). Just make sure the proper display type is selected in HCFR.


I doubt your TV supports automated calibration. So you will probably have to run through the test patterns yourself manually.


The gain controls change the upper end of the grayscale. The offset controls change the lower end. The definition of upper and lower end can vary from display to display. If you have ten point controls you would adjust gain by looking at a 100% white pattern. You would adjust offset by looking at a 30% white pattern. Do gain first....then offset as gain is more likely to affect the low end of the grayscale. Go back and forth a bit to find a compromise that gets both as close as possible. Meaning one control can technically affect the area that should be covered by the other. Until you gain more experience don't touch two point again after you have set it with the method above. And leave green alone (once again until you get more experience).


To fine tune gamma in the ten point controls on a Samsung you do 'gang adjustments'. Meaning to raise the brightness of that point without affecting white balance you add to RED/GREEN/BLUE equally. To lower brightness at a point you subtract equally. This is the exception to the 'don't touch green' rule above. For reasons I won't go into there I would suggest starting at one end of the grayscale and working your way down (or up). If you start at interval ten you should make as few adjustments as possible (since you should have dialed it in pretty well with two point). Do it once and then don't touch interval ten again.
AMartin56 is offline  
post #5050 of 5061 Old Yesterday, 06:18 AM
Advanced Member
 
xvfx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 750
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 125 Post(s)
Liked: 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by AMartin56 View Post
You won't have a correction file unless you profile the meter with a spectro (which it sounds like you don't own). Just make sure the proper display type is selected in HCFR.
It's a shame there is none for Samsung VA panels. Only IPS is listed. I had to go with NonRefresh entry as the screen wasn't that warm with the Samsung entry. I'll have to invest in a Spectro soon.
xvfx is offline  
post #5051 of 5061 Old Yesterday, 09:38 AM
Member
 
Basstrix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: AZ
Posts: 39
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 11
I've recently resurrected my calibration tools to dial in a couple of new sets. I see that HCFR has a lot of new features that weren't present when I last calibrated. I've also realized some functionality that may or may not have been available, previously. I have searched and have been unable to get all of my questions answered, although I'm sure they've been addressed in this 5000+ post thread I apologize in advance if these topics have already been covered.


My questions are:


1. Trying to use HCFR patterns for continuous measures. I cannot get the pattern to only show on the TV. Where can I find info, in addition to what's in help, on this?
2. I'm not clear on how to change colors during continuous measure once I do get the pattern to only show on the TV. I've read to "double click" the grid for the color you want or to use the "view colors". View Colors doesn't seem like a feasible means of changing anything but W, R, G, or B.
Is there a guide or FAQ that covers this topic thoroughly?


3. I see there is a 75/75 Rec709 colorspace. I've used Stereomandan's 75% sats method successfully and would like to know how to use the pattern material built into HCFR for this method. I thought SMD's method used 75sat/100color, but I'm not sure. Is there a guide that covers how to perform a 75% sat cal using 75/75 Rec709?


4. The help files built into HCFR do not show any images. I only see a box with an x where an image should be. Any suggestions on how to get the images to show?


Thanks in advance,
BT

Vizio M652i-B2....................HCFR 3.1.6
Vizio E600i-B3.....................i1 Display Pro
Sharp LC-70C8470U............ControlCAL Elite X5 Edition v2
Onkyo TX-SR606.................AVSHD-709
PS-3
Homegrown HTPC

Last edited by Basstrix; Today at 07:33 AM.
Basstrix is online now  
post #5052 of 5061 Old Yesterday, 09:41 AM
Newbie
 
CharlieS.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 9
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 1
CharlieS. is offline  
post #5053 of 5061 Old Yesterday, 06:09 PM
Member
 
Basstrix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: AZ
Posts: 39
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieS. View Post
Thanks Charlie, that's what I'm currently using, but I'm trying to simplify/speed things up by using the pattern material built into HCFR.

Vizio M652i-B2....................HCFR 3.1.6
Vizio E600i-B3.....................i1 Display Pro
Sharp LC-70C8470U............ControlCAL Elite X5 Edition v2
Onkyo TX-SR606.................AVSHD-709
PS-3
Homegrown HTPC
Basstrix is online now  
post #5054 of 5061 Old Today, 06:11 AM
Newbie
 
CharlieS.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 9
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Basstrix View Post
Thanks Charlie, that's what I'm currently using, but I'm trying to simplify/speed things up by using the pattern material built into HCFR.
But that does not work.
CharlieS. is offline  
post #5055 of 5061 Old Today, 07:35 AM
Member
 
Basstrix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: AZ
Posts: 39
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Basstrix View Post
4. The help files built into HCFR do not show any images. I only see a box with an x where an image should be. Any suggestions on how to get the images to show?

As of this morning, the images are now showing in HCFR help.

Vizio M652i-B2....................HCFR 3.1.6
Vizio E600i-B3.....................i1 Display Pro
Sharp LC-70C8470U............ControlCAL Elite X5 Edition v2
Onkyo TX-SR606.................AVSHD-709
PS-3
Homegrown HTPC
Basstrix is online now  
post #5056 of 5061 Old Today, 07:49 AM
Advanced Member
 
rakstr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: dallas
Posts: 718
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
Liked: 35
I'm struggling getting off the ground as well. My Display Pro arrived yesterday! I'll admit I haven't yet sat down for intensive review but I was hoping I'd find a "calibration for dummies" youtube for the basics. Always helps me to have someone show me the most simple of tasks to acquaint me and then the written information makes more sense and helps me learn faster.....

So if you know of a video that walks you through the basics, I'd appreciate a link too!!

MERRY CHRISTMAS


Quote:
Originally Posted by Basstrix View Post
As of this morning, the images are now showing in HCFR help.
rakstr is offline  
post #5057 of 5061 Old Today, 09:12 AM
Member
 
Basstrix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: AZ
Posts: 39
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 11
rakstr,


The AVSHD-709 disk has a video with basics of calibrating, but it is very basic. I'm not aware of a youtube for this, but CurtPalme's has a good guide. The original is HCFR specific: http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457

Vizio M652i-B2....................HCFR 3.1.6
Vizio E600i-B3.....................i1 Display Pro
Sharp LC-70C8470U............ControlCAL Elite X5 Edition v2
Onkyo TX-SR606.................AVSHD-709
PS-3
Homegrown HTPC
Basstrix is online now  
post #5058 of 5061 Old Today, 02:06 PM
AVS Special Member
 
nebrunner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: omaha,NE,USA
Posts: 1,141
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Liked: 28
I purchased an i1 display pro and installed the profiler sotfware that came with it. Ran through a round of that and maybe I'm missing something but nowhere did I see any options for me to make recommended changes to color and nothing at all about contrast and brightness.

I have HCFR and under advanced, tools, there is the built in test pattern choices. Under the second half there is a test pattern for brightness and one for contrast. Each appears to have some moving black and white bars but I cannot find any instructions on how to use it, from the built in help as well as online. I would imagine it must be necessary to turn up brightness and contrast until certain bars are just visible, then back it off until they blend in with whiter than white and blacker than black, however to do this properly it would require some specific details.

If anybody can point me to the instructions on these patterns I would greatly appreciate it! I used to use A Video Standard to calibrate these back in the day, but no longer have access to a laser dics player. All I have right now for source is a pc, and I think I have some tweaking to do between 0-255 and 15-235 to eliminate black and white crush.

My perpetual home theater build - Omaha Theater #5
nebrunner is online now  
post #5059 of 5061 Old Today, 02:10 PM
AVS Special Member
 
AMartin56's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,218
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 215 Post(s)
Liked: 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by nebrunner View Post
I purchased an i1 display pro and installed the profiler sotfware that came with it. Ran through a round of that and maybe I'm missing something but nowhere did I see any options for me to make recommended changes to color and nothing at all about contrast and brightness.

I have HCFR and under advanced, tools, there is the built in test pattern choices. Under the second half there is a test pattern for brightness and one for contrast. Each appears to have some moving black and white bars but I cannot find any instructions on how to use it, from the built in help as well as online. I would imagine it must be necessary to turn up brightness and contrast until certain bars are just visible, then back it off until they blend in with whiter than white and blacker than black, however to do this properly it would require some specific details.

If anybody can point me to the instructions on these patterns I would greatly appreciate it! I used to use A Video Standard to calibrate these back in the day, but no longer have access to a laser dics player. All I have right now for source is a pc, and I think I have some tweaking to do between 0-255 and 15-235 to eliminate black and white crush.
Looks up one post from yours...

AMartin56 is offline  
post #5060 of 5061 Old Today, 02:33 PM
Member
 
Basstrix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: AZ
Posts: 39
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 11
After reading a lot of posts on this thread and some experimentation, I have answered most of what I was asking in post 5051. I've figured out how to use the patterns included with HCFR and am able to run continuous measures and display patterns on the extended desktop.


From what I can tell, here's how it works:


1. Connect your computer to TV
2. Power up computer and TV
3. Set your computer to use Extended Desktop for the 2nd display
4. Fire up HCFR (this is the important step...don't fire up HCFR prior to this step or the s/w doesn't recognize the 2nd display properly)
5. Go to Measures/Generator/Select: pick View Images
6. Go to Measures/Generator/Configure:
choose Target Screen: I picked the lower choice...both show up as Generic PnP Monitor.
I left Image Area, APL, and Intensity at defaults. Not sure what APL and Intensity do.
set Display Mode to GDI
set Gray Scale to 0-255


I have intentionally left out the subject of determining if your computer is outputting video correctly...still working through those details and I'm sure it varies from computer to computer.


It's still not clear to me how color selection works on the Continuous Measures. It seems that in order to use the Color/Data grid to choose a display color, two requirements must be fulfilled.
A. There must be data in the cells below a given color location. I.E. If you wish to select the red primary, there must be data present for a red primary.
B. The data for a given color must be accurate to within a dE of ~ 4 or less (from what I can tell).


Display colors can also be chosen using the View/Test Colors and then select colors or by clicking on the CIE chart. The Test Colors seems like an accurate but archaic way to choose a color if it's other than a primary.


Will someone please explain to me the most efficient way to display accurate colors using HCFR? I'm interested in using HCFR to display/measure 75% saturations for Pri/Sec along with grayscale, 100% colors, and color checker patterns.


Thanks,
BT

Vizio M652i-B2....................HCFR 3.1.6
Vizio E600i-B3.....................i1 Display Pro
Sharp LC-70C8470U............ControlCAL Elite X5 Edition v2
Onkyo TX-SR606.................AVSHD-709
PS-3
Homegrown HTPC

Last edited by Basstrix; Today at 02:36 PM.
Basstrix is online now  
post #5061 of 5061 Old Today, 06:08 PM
AVS Special Member
 
nebrunner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: omaha,NE,USA
Posts: 1,141
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Liked: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by AMartin56 View Post
Looks up one post from yours...

Thanks AMartin, those are the patterns that I have been using but I'm looking for the details on the contrast and brightness patterns built into HCFR as they are distinctly different and have moving bar patterns. The AVS709 are definitely nice as they have hard coded instructions.

My perpetual home theater build - Omaha Theater #5
nebrunner is online now  
Reply Display Calibration

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off