HCFR - Open source projector and display calibration software - Page 172 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 01-02-2015, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by umenon View Post
I am using DVD Manual but my source is mp4 files on a usb stick (inserted into a port on the TV).
So, is HCFR displaying a pop-up dialog between readings/patterns? (confirms that you're ready for the next pattern)

It kind of sounds like you have HCFR setup for "view images" instead of "DVD Manual."
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Old 01-02-2015, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTVChallenged View Post
So, is HCFR displaying a pop-up dialog between readings/patterns? (confirms that you're ready for the next pattern)

It kind of sounds like you have HCFR setup for "view images" instead of "DVD Manual."
Yes it does pop-up a window to let me know to change to the next grayscale level.
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Old 01-02-2015, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by umenon View Post
Yes it does pop-up a window to let me know to change to the next grayscale level.
Well ... I'm officially confused then ... it sounds like you're looking to average a number of readings???? The "go ahead" box shouldn't pop up until the meter/driver returns a value. Frankly, 30-45 seconds sounds quite excessive (unless you have a high end spectro like a Jeti or Minolta.)
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Old 01-02-2015, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shpitz View Post
Thanks for the links guys, I read both but they were confusing to me, I'll have a 2nd go at it this weekend.

What do you guys do with the meter, when the TV is mounted on the wall, and is tilted a little forward (so gravity pulls the meter away from the screen)? any tricks? or just I just press the meter against the screen with my finger?

Thanks again!
Here's a link to a more recent guide I've yet to use, but looks good:
Post 3703 F8500 Recommended Settings Thread.....

The painters tape 'solution' is discussed at length 1-2 pages above on this thread.
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Last edited by bmcn; 01-02-2015 at 10:37 AM.
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Old 01-02-2015, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTVChallenged View Post
Well ... I'm officially confused then ... it sounds like you're looking to average a number of readings???? The "go ahead" box shouldn't pop up until the meter/driver returns a value. Frankly, 30-45 seconds sounds quite excessive (unless you have a high end spectro like a Jeti or Minolta.)
30-45 seconds is only for the 10% grayscale (worst case scenario). It will get me a reading in 20 seconds and then it will move around a little and then settle down in 10-20 more seconds.

What I have done is do the 10 pt White Balance manually. I just use free-flight mode and get the RGB readings for all the steps ... at my own pace. This works great - except HFCR does not track all that and does not generate the Gamma chart.
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Old 01-02-2015, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by umenon View Post
30-45 seconds is only for the 10% grayscale (worst case scenario). It will get me a reading in 20 seconds and then it will move around a little and then settle down in 10-20 more seconds.

What I have done is do the 10 pt White Balance manually. I just use free-flight mode and get the RGB readings for all the steps ... at my own pace. This works great - except HFCR does not track all that and does not generate the Gamma chart.
With HCFR and an i1Display Pro, when I measure 0-100% grayscale, the 1st reading of 0% takes a 'long time', maybe 10-15 seconds. With each brighter reading it takes maybe 1-3 seconds.

Did you try your meter with the software it came with?

Did you try it in another computer? Or a different USB port?

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Old 01-02-2015, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by umenon View Post
30-45 seconds is only for the 10% grayscale (worst case scenario). It will get me a reading in 20 seconds and then it will move around a little and then settle down in 10-20 more seconds.
Might help to know what meter you're using ... apologies if I missed that in an earlier post.

Quote:
What I have done is do the 10 pt White Balance manually. I just use free-flight mode and get the RGB readings for all the steps ... at my own pace. This works great - except HFCR does not track all that and does not generate the Gamma chart.
Well in the worse case, you could always copy and paste the "free readings" in to the appropriate slots in the greyscale grid.
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Old 01-02-2015, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTVChallenged View Post
Well in the worse case, you could always copy and paste the "free readings" in to the appropriate slots in the greyscale grid.
Well ... that I like. I might do that this evening.

This is the spectro I am using ... Datacolor S4TV100 Spyder4TV

http://www.amazon.com/Datacolor-S4TV...pr_product_top
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Old 01-02-2015, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by umenon View Post
30-45 seconds is only for the 10% grayscale (worst case scenario). It will get me a reading in 20 seconds and then it will move around a little and then settle down in 10-20 more seconds.

What I have done is do the 10 pt White Balance manually. I just use free-flight mode and get the RGB readings for all the steps ... at my own pace. This works great - except HFCR does not track all that and does not generate the Gamma chart.
Just to be safe, make sure your sensor has not defaulted to Simulated Sensor. You also want to be sure the correct display type has been chosen.

Under Sensor/Config Sensor, try using some different Integration Times. I use the 0.500 setting, but I've tried the others just to see what they do....the 1.0 second may help you.

Vizio M652i-B2....................HCFR 3.1.6
Vizio E600i-B3.....................i1 Display Pro
Sharp LC-70C8470U............ControlCAL Elite X5 Edition v2
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Old 01-02-2015, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banjeman View Post
(as suggested not to make contact with screen when calibrating Plasmas)
I've never seen that recommendation, can you recall the source?
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Old 01-02-2015, 12:49 PM
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Hello! I have visited this site many times and have familiarized myself with calibration and have been performing them for a while now. I am not an expert, but I consider myself knowledgeable. I have a problem. I am unable to make HCFR work with madVR or with madTPG. It tells me it cannot find DLL and asks me whether madVR was installed. It was installed properly using the included .bat and administrative privelages. I also tried to uninstall it using the provided uninstall .bat, then restart, and re-install it with proper .bat with both - normal and As Administrator, but that did not help. madVR was and is installed in a singular location without any duplicates. When Windows 8.1 Firewall asked about madTPG access, I selected "Allow" for both public and private networks. I tried installing and re-installing HCFR in normal mode and As Administrator, which yielded a fruitless result. dispcalGUI detects madTPG just fine and allowed me to create a 3DLUT, but I need to verify 3DLUT accuracy through HCFR and I cannot do it.

How can I resolve this issue of HCFR not finding madVR or madTPG DLL? I am running Windows 8.1 Pro x64 with the latest updates, dispcalGUI 2.6.0.0, and the latest HCFR Calibration 3.1.6. I would greatly appreciate any suggestions/advice to make HCFR detect madVR/madTPG!
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Old 01-02-2015, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by bmcn View Post
I've never seen that recommendation, can you recall the source?
I believe I have read it in different threads, but it might have been while reading the guides. I have found a reference to it in the new grayscale guide section 1.2.6.
Quote from guide below:

"If you are calibrating a plasma display, it is a good practice to place the colorimeter on a tripod set back from the screen about a foot. This will minimize the effect on the sensor of the heat that comes off the plasma screen."

On another note it looks like for LCD's the test pattern should be full screen, I used windows on my Sony, so not sure how that effected my calibration. I will have to check the S&M disk to see if it has full screen patterns.

Anyone know if using windows instead of full screen color patterns affects the calibration on an LED-LCD?

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Old 01-02-2015, 03:12 PM
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Anyone know if using windows instead of full screen color patterns affects the calibration on an LED-LCD?
There was no difference with my Samsung's. Windows and full screen read the same.
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Old 01-02-2015, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banjeman View Post
I believe I have read it in different threads, but it might have been while reading the guides. I have found a reference to it in the new grayscale guide section 1.2.6.
Quote from guide below:

"If you are calibrating a plasma display, it is a good practice to place the colorimeter on a tripod set back from the screen about a foot. This will minimize the effect on the sensor of the heat that comes off the plasma screen."

On another note it looks like for LCD's the test pattern should be full screen, I used windows on my Sony, so not sure how that effected my calibration. I will have to check the S&M disk to see if it has full screen patterns.

Anyone know if using windows instead of full screen color patterns affects the calibration on an LED-LCD?

Plasmas should use windows as full screen will affect luminance. For LCD's it doesn't matter.

Vizio M652i-B2....................HCFR 3.1.6
Vizio E600i-B3.....................i1 Display Pro
Sharp LC-70C8470U............ControlCAL Elite X5 Edition v2
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Old 01-02-2015, 05:55 PM
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thanks to all that replied to my question. I did use Windows on my Plasma, as well as my LCD. Glad I don't have to do it again. Although the inability to get 100% blue during the 30/80 gray scaling using the Sony white balance has me wondering. I was focusing on keeping the dE under three, should I have concentrated on getting the RGB 100% at 30 and 80% gray scale and not worried about dE? I have attached a couple of images of the after calibration readings.


The Sony only has two point gray scale (white balance) and doesn't allow for individual color changes like my Panasonic Plasma did.
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54" Panasonic Viera plasma TC-54VT25
Denon AVR-2112CI with Energy 5.1 Speakers
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55" Sony X850B (replaced the 32" Sony in the Bedroom)
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Old 01-03-2015, 12:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by umenon View Post
Well ... that I like. I might do that this evening.

This is the spectro I am using ... Datacolor S4TV100 Spyder4TV

http://www.amazon.com/Datacolor-S4TV...pr_product_top
Humm ... I don't have any direct experience with that meter. In any case, I think the "copy/paste" method is probably the only way to do what you want. (At this point, I'm assuming that you're wanting to take readings until the values stabilize ... Sorry it took me awhile to get on the same page.)
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Old 01-03-2015, 10:07 AM
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Help setting up HCFR

Just purchased a Samsung Plasma 60F5300 and a i1 Display Pro. I have used HCFR in the past to calibrate my projector but with a Spider 2, so I am familiar with using the old version of HCFR. But I have run into a problem with the new meter and the new software. I started HCFR with the meter plugged in but with none of the x-rite software or drivers. I set up the new version of HCfR and it recognized the meter, set the display type to plasma and proceeded to take readings. Long story short the readings were way off showing blue very high and red to low. I corrected the 2 point first and then the 10 point and had to use very large offsets to get the colors balanced. Watching a bluray after calibration it was obvious that the calibration was way off. I then tried the meter and software on my old plasma and it showed the same problem- high blue, low red. So this isolates the problem to the meter or my setup of the software. Should I have installed the xrite drivers or is there some other explanation for my problem. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
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Old 01-03-2015, 10:44 AM - Thread Starter
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The display pro using the plasma display setting has been quite good on other user's plasmas. What color temp preset did you use? standard will show very high blue levels but warm 2 should only need minor adjustments.
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Old 01-03-2015, 10:56 AM
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Problem with i1pro and HCFR

Hi
Thanks for the reply. I used standard, but the blue readings were 130% and the Red about 75. When I adjusted the 2 point and then the 10 point the result gave a distorted gray scale that you could see with your necked eye on a gray ramp. I got these same results when I tried it on my Panasonic Plasma- Blue 130%, Red 75%. I don't know if I have bad meter or something set up wrong in HCFR.
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Old 01-03-2015, 11:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Could be the source as well. I would start from a color temp preset closer to D65. For set-up please sync your probe to the display (press the calibrate button in the probe set-up page). Do your 2 pt. calibration using DVD patterns from a player using it's default settings and upload your saved results.
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Old 01-04-2015, 10:56 AM
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I found this info

http://en.community.dell.com/support...529/t/19525792

that states that RG phosphor edr/ccss includes corrections for GB-LED as well(I assume GB-LED = BG-LED = LED Blue Green DCI/P3)

Looking at the RG Phosphor spectrum, it's 100% identical to the spectrum of BG-LED.

I own CalMAN Control 5, but for some strange reason, X-rite gives us 8 edr files, all there in HCFR, but in CalMAN there is only 7 meter modes, RG Phospor being the missing one.

I'm concerned because this document says the following

http://www.spectracal.com/Documents/...QuickStart.pdf

"Meter Mode (Target Display Type)
AX800 and AX900 series
-
The Panasonic AX800 and AX900 series displays have a very wide color
gamut, approaching that of the DCI/P3 spe
cification.
Select the

LCD (LED Blue Green DCI/P3
Gamut)


But I was informed AFTER my purchases(calman and i1D3) that "
LCD (LED Blue Green DCI/P3
Gamut)" is only selectable with their own C6 meter.

But with the info from the Dell thread and the missing RG phosphor in Calman(but available in HCFR because it's standard from the factory edr files), I get a bit suspicious, and I don't know what to think. And this is the reason for posting here, I was hoping you could help me clarify things for me.

I just want to be able to calibrate my AX800 properly. I was told by Spectracal support to use the RGBLED meter modes instead. And I did, but I find the over all picture quality to have a bit to much red(red cast). I decided to compare my calibration done with CalMAN, with HCFR, RG phosphor vs RGBLED correction, and indeed, when doing readings with RG phosphore, there is to much red >4dE.




PANASONIC TX-58AX800E ULTRA HD 4K LED TV
i1 Display Pro, CalMAN Control
YAMAHA RX-A2040 9.2 DOLBY ATMOS Networked Receiver
ROTEL RB-1572 Ext AMP
DALI MENTOR 6 FRONTS, DALI IKON VOCAL 2 CENTER, DALI IKON ON-WALL REAR
MPC-HC+MadVR 3DLUT calibrated with DispcalGUI.

Last edited by Evanesco; 01-04-2015 at 11:02 AM.
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Old 01-04-2015, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Masharak View Post
How can I resolve this issue of HCFR not finding madVR or madTPG DLL? I am running Windows 8.1 Pro x64 with the latest updates, dispcalGUI 2.6.0.0, and the latest HCFR Calibration 3.1.6. I would greatly appreciate any suggestions/advice to make HCFR detect madVR/madTPG!
madVR 87.12 (just released) should fix this (I haven't tried it yet).
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Old 01-05-2015, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bill913 View Post
Hi
Thanks for the reply. I used standard, but the blue readings were 130% and the Red about 75. When I adjusted the 2 point and then the 10 point the result gave a distorted gray scale that you could see with your necked eye on a gray ramp. I got these same results when I tried it on my Panasonic Plasma- Blue 130%, Red 75%. I don't know if I have bad meter or something set up wrong in HCFR.
I would probably suggest installing the latest X-rite drivers. Then find the inf file for the ArgyllDoc from the control panel Device Manager and update the driver to the HCFR inf location C:\Program Files (x86)\HCFR Calibration\Drivers\ArgyllCMS.inf. It will show up as Eye-One Display 3 (Argyll) under Agryll LibUSB-win32 devices. When starting HCFR I select DVD Manual and used the AVSHD709 disk. Then you can pick the Xrite Display pro with the plasma profile. This combo has worked for the i1Display Pro and got great results calibrating the Panasonic TC-P50ST50 Plasma.

Last edited by thepiecesfit; 01-05-2015 at 02:53 PM.
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Old 01-05-2015, 06:24 PM
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my first gen eye one pro meter seems to be working fine with the HCFR software except when I click to perform a measurement , it will measure but not retain the information in the 20%white grayscale box. If i click on the 30% , the 20% info disappears.

Please, anyone have any ideas what im doing wrong?

Thanks,
Chris

- Independent Dreams - IDStudios
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Old 01-05-2015, 09:13 PM
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I believe I've mastered the basics of CMS/11-pt calibration using HCFR and an i1DisplayPro.

I'd like to take the next (modest step) and try to profile my i1DisplayPro with a ColorMunki Photo spectro.

Pointers to help understand the answers to a few questions appreciated:

1/ does HCFR support the ColorMunki Photo? Any thing special I need to do to use it other that loading drivers and plugging it in?

2/ Is there a simple guide anywhere for how to profile a colorimeter with a spectro using HCFR? I know the basic concept is to take parallel measurements of the same stimulus and to the use the spectro results to populate a correction matrix used by the colorimeter when calibrating the same display, but as to how that is done, I am at a complete loss.

Normally I'd be happy to figure all of this out through experimentation, but since I will only be renting the ColoMunki Photo for 3 days, I can't afford to waste too much time in trial and error mode and need to figure out as much as possible in advance as I can.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions, feedback, or pointers.
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Old 01-06-2015, 12:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
2/ Is there a simple guide anywhere for how to profile a colorimeter with a spectro using HCFR? I know the basic concept is to take parallel measurements of the same stimulus and to the use the spectro results to populate a correction matrix used by the colorimeter when calibrating the same display, but as to how that is done, I am at a complete loss.
The available methods are explained in the original help files. The easiest way is to create two calibration documents, one for each meter. Measure the primaries + white with the spectro, switch to the colorimeter and measure the primaries + white again. Switch back to the spectro's document and mark it as the "reference." Switch to the colorimeter document, click on Advanced->XYZ Adjustment Matrix->Compute Conversion Matrix from reference document.*

Menu screen captures are in the help file. Takes longer to explain than it does to actually do it.

PS: That being said, there may be more "robust" methods available through the ArgyllCMS tools that I haven't explored.

*PPS: Looks like Zoyd re-organized the menus a bit: It's now Advanced->Matrix Correction File->Create using existing reference measures (IIRC)

Last edited by HDTVChallenged; 01-06-2015 at 10:20 AM. Reason: Correct outdated menu sequence.
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Old 01-06-2015, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTVChallenged View Post
The available methods are explained in the original help files. The easiest way is to create two calibration documents, one for each meter. Measure the primaries + white with the spectro, switch to the colorimeter and measure the primaries + white again. Switch back to the spectro's document and mark it as the "reference." Switch to the colorimeter document, click on Advanced->XYZ Adjustment Matrix->Compute Conversion Matrix from reference document.*

Menu screen captures are in the help file. Takes longer to explain than it does to actually do it.

PS: That being said, there may be more "robust" methods available through the ArgyllCMS tools that I haven't explored.

*PPS: Looks like Zoyd re-organized the menus a bit: It's now Advanced->Matrix Correction File->Create using existing reference measures (IIRC)
Very helpful - thanks. It sounds easy enough that I will just go ahead and rent the ColorMunki Photo once I am gearing up for my next calibration (post new FW release) - sounds like the kind of thing I should be able to figure out given 3-evening's-worth of time...
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Old 01-06-2015, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
Very helpful - thanks. It sounds easy enough that I will just go ahead and rent the ColorMunki Photo once I am gearing up for my next calibration (post new FW release) - sounds like the kind of thing I should be able to figure out given 3-evening's-worth of time...

That's the way Zoyd explained it to me. I hook up both meters....launch HCFR...start a session with the spectro (calibrating it etc) and then run RGBW. Hit reference measures. Then start another session...use the iD3 this time...run RGBW and then create the correction file as described above. Pack away spectro and never use it again.


One thing that may not be obvious on the ColorMunki Photo is that the calibration tile is built into it. You'll be able to see the optics when it's in measuring position. You'll rotate the center dial to calibrate (You'll know it's in the right position when you can no longer see the optics on the bottom of the device) and then rotate it back when the calibration is complete.
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Old 01-06-2015, 12:36 PM
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Very helpful - thanks. It sounds easy enough that I will just go ahead and rent the ColorMunki Photo once I am gearing up for my next calibration (post new FW release) - sounds like the kind of thing I should be able to figure out given 3-evening's-worth of time...

Also not sure why you need to wait. Unless I'm missing something you just have to profile every display you intend to calibrate once....I don't see why firmware would change the results much. Now having said that your colorimeter could drift so it might make sense to wait for THAT reason but at that point you are probably just splitting hairs. iD3 meters don't seem prone to rapid drift.
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Old 01-06-2015, 03:46 PM
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That's the way Zoyd explained it to me. I hook up both meters....launch HCFR...start a session with the spectro (calibrating it etc) and then run RGBW. Hit reference measures. Then start another session...use the iD3 this time...run RGBW and then create the correction file as described above. Pack away spectro and never use it again.


One thing that may not be obvious on the ColorMunki Photo is that the calibration tile is built into it. You'll be able to see the optics when it's in measuring position. You'll rotate the center dial to calibrate (You'll know it's in the right position when you can no longer see the optics on the bottom of the device) and then rotate it back when the calibration is complete.
Thanks. You seem to have recent experience with exactly this HCFR/i1DisplayPro/ColorMunki Photo combination, so if I have any additional questions when I get started, I may send you a PM.

When you say 'calibrating the spectro' you mean calibrating it to 0% by turning it so that the cover is in place, correct?

Also, did you purchase a ColorMunki Photo or rent one (and if so where)?

Thanks again
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