HCFR - Open source projector and display calibration software - Page 178 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #5311 of 5778 Old 01-25-2015, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
Yes, set the pattern generator intensity to 75% in the normal Rec709 colorspace to do that. Again, if you want to run saturations after that you'll need to switch back to 100% intensity.
OK, thanks. Think I understand, but in the interest of certainty, just wanted to be surevI have it right:

1/ for whitepoint and 11-pt greyscale calibration, set pattern generator intensity to 100% because you will be sweeping anyway (and standard for primaries is inconsequential).

2a/ for calibrating primaries & secondaries at 75% / 75%, set the standard to Rec.709 (75% /75%) and set pattern generator to 75%.

2b/ for calibrating at 100% / 100%, standard is set to Rec.709 and generator is set to 100%.

2c/ to calibrate fully saturated primaries /secondaries at 75% luminance, set standard to Rec.709 and set generator to 75%.

2d/ if you ever wanted to calibrate 75% saturated primaries and secondaries at 100% luminance, I suppose you could set reference to Rec.709 (75%/75%) and generator to 100%, butbI am unsure if that would work (or if it makes sense).

3/ before running any saturation sweeps including color checker, standard needs to be set to Rec.709, generator needs to be set to 100%, and measure primaries & secondaries needs to be re-run.


Did I get all of that right?

And by the way, while drilling down into all of these technical details, I just want voice my appreciation for all the excellent work that you and whoever else has contributed to HCFR have done - the more I dive into that application's capability, the more impressed I become
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post #5312 of 5778 Old 01-25-2015, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
Specific patches to display can only be selected from either the grayscale page or the primaries/secondaries page, not the saturations pages. I hope to upgrade that in the future since it would be handy for dialing in skin tones from colorchecker series.
I'd second that, Zoyd - the real-time capability of greyscale and primaries /secondaries is so fantastic, having that same capability on any of the saturation sweeps (including color checker) would be fantastic (even if only possible by using a disk as the pattern source...).

Another minor complaint I have is that I always lose the bottom line in the upper display window (believe it is displaying delta L % in greyscale) - the scroll bar won't go any further and the height of the upper-most sub-window cannot be expanded. If you don't understand what I am referring to, I can probably attach a screenshot...
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post #5313 of 5778 Old 01-25-2015, 03:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
Did I get all of that right?
yes for the most part except 2a and 2d. The intensity setting is meant to adjust 100% saturation points only in the normal color spaces, don't lower it for the special 75% color space, although I don't think it does any harm and white will be sent correctly anyway.

Quote:
And by the way, while drilling down into all of these technical details, I just want voice my appreciation for all the excellent work that you and whoever else has contributed to HCFR have done - the more I dive into that application's capability, the more impressed I become
Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
the scroll bar won't go any further and the height of the upper-most sub-window cannot be expanded.
There is a little up/down arrow for expanding that window next to the editable data checkbox.

Last edited by zoyd; 01-25-2015 at 03:10 PM.
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post #5314 of 5778 Old 01-25-2015, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
There is a little up/down arrow for expanding that window next to the editable data checkbox.
Maybe you should add that to your sig.

Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
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post #5315 of 5778 Old 01-25-2015, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
yes for the most part except 2a and 2d. The intensity setting is meant to adjust 100% saturation points only in the normal color spaces, don't lower it for the special 75% color space, although I don't think it does any harm and white will be sent correctly anyway.



Thanks!



There is a little up/down arrow for expanding that window next to the editable data checkbox.
You are really my hero now! You have no idea how many times I tried expanding this way and that way and scrolling up and down all in the that there was some magic trick or sequence to get that last hidden 'delta luminance' line to appear
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post #5316 of 5778 Old 01-25-2015, 04:45 PM - Thread Starter
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post #5317 of 5778 Old 01-26-2015, 01:14 AM
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Can somebody say - How it possible in v.3.1.6?
I want use this version instead 3.0.4 (where i did it without any problem). But what is wrong with setting and measure white point and DeltasE in latest version? How i should use it right? Thanks.
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post #5318 of 5778 Old 01-26-2015, 03:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperBura View Post
Can somebody say - How it possible in v.3.1.6?
I want use this version instead 3.0.4 (where i did it without any problem). But what is wrong with setting and measure white point and DeltasE in latest version? How i should use it right? Thanks.
The easiest way is to display and measure the pattern from the grayscale sweep page.
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post #5319 of 5778 Old 01-26-2015, 04:28 AM
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So, is it bug in 3.1.6 vs 3.0.4? Or feature?

Ok. The way that you describe is good for set and measure WB in central point of display.
But other than that i need to measure uniformity of LCD panel. With v.3.0.4 i display white color on screen and measure results in 35 points. After that copied this results in MS Excel. In version 3.1.6 it turns out it is not possible ( In one place DeltaE calculate (i think) with taking into account of brightness and in other place (RGB Levels) without.

And yes - in 3.0.4 i can use continuous measures with "Test Color" window and perform unique measure with full fill (100% image area) at same time, without need to change something in Preferences. Now to do this i should set "Display Test Color during measure", but for measure Test Color only on small part of the screen i need to remove this tick in Preferences. Do't you think that it is not convenient?
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post #5320 of 5778 Old 01-26-2015, 08:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Target mode using free measures is not really a supported feature so if it happened to work for your application in a previous version that was a bit of a fluke. This is because it's difficult to know what the target is unless you are running one of the known sweep sequences. Probably this is easiest to do for white because it could always check for that color first. I can take a look and see if there is a quick change that would make it work for white balance.
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post #5321 of 5778 Old 01-26-2015, 07:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trashmon View Post
Unfortunately, when I select I1 Pro, it pops up an init_inst error: 'EEProm key table seems to be corrupted'. Of course, this means absolutely nothing to me
It's not meant for you - it's meant to short circuit a lot of stuffing around in figuring out what went wrong. If the error message was just "something failed", then noone will be any the wiser about what to do next, without asking you a dozen questions as well as getting you to turn on some sort of diagnostics and then relaying what they report. Instead I can say right away that either your i1pro is faulty, or there are serious USB communication issues.
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post #5322 of 5778 Old 01-27-2015, 03:47 AM
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Hi there fellas, first time poster here, be gentle
To begin with- I NEED YOUR HELP! I've already spend all weekend trying to calibrate my JVC X35 with i1D3 and HCFR plus took 2 days off of work to continue and just can't get things right. Can't get crazier than this. Let me explain what I did from very beginning. I'll try to do it as short as possible.
Open HCFR, select DVD manuals in drop down menu, select my i1D3 as sensor, leave ''do not use meter correction file'' checked.
Next window- display type- non refresh, reading type- projector, observer type- default.
Then I done everything as instructed in ''GREYSCALE & COLOUR CALIBRATION FOR DUMMIES'' mabie a bit less than 100 times and can't get better than in photos attached.
The only thing that looks ''right'' is RGB levels. Luminance, and especially gamma are way off compared to reference line.
One thing to mention- when setting 30% and 80% points, instruction says put everything in defaults settings on your display. So I did. Color temperature 6500. Then, instruction says adjust RGB High End, or on my settings- GAIN. But when I play 80% gray video file, the red and blue color columns in HCFR ''selected color'' window are lower than 100%, so there's no way I can adjust things with GAIN/RGBHighEnd. (last picture attached is from google, just to show how sliders are in their default) I tried to adjust OFFSET/RGBLowEnd at that point just out of curiosity but then when I moved to darker image at 30% gray, adjusting GAIN/RGBhighEnd didn't helped much. Sorry guys I think I'm getting too confusing with my post. So what I did to get my 80% and 30% readings right was changed color temperature to 5500 to begin with and then everything worked, or so I thought until I saw my charts...
If you're still reading- please help
In the meanwhile- I need to get out of the house, haven't seen daylight for 4 days
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post #5323 of 5778 Old 01-27-2015, 04:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gediminas Jarulaitis View Post
Hi there fellas, first time poster here, be gentle
To begin with- I NEED YOUR HELP! I've already spend all weekend trying to calibrate my JVC X35 with i1D3 and HCFR plus took 2 days off of work to continue and just can't get things right. Can't get crazier than this. Let me explain what I did from very beginning. I'll try to do it as short as possible.
Open HCFR, select DVD manuals in drop down menu, select my i1D3 as sensor, leave ''do not use meter correction file'' checked.
Next window- display type- non refresh, reading type- projector, observer type- default.
Then I done everything as instructed in ''GREYSCALE & COLOUR CALIBRATION FOR DUMMIES'' mabie a bit less than 100 times and can't get better than in photos attached.
The only thing that looks ''right'' is RGB levels. Luminance, and especially gamma are way off compared to reference line.
One thing to mention- when setting 30% and 80% points, instruction says put everything in defaults settings on your display. So I did. Color temperature 6500. Then, instruction says adjust RGB High End, or on my settings- GAIN. But when I play 80% gray video file, the red and blue color columns in HCFR ''selected color'' window are lower than 100%, so there's no way I can adjust things with GAIN/RGBHighEnd. (last picture attached is from google, just to show how sliders are in their default) I tried to adjust OFFSET/RGBLowEnd at that point just out of curiosity but then when I moved to darker image at 30% gray, adjusting GAIN/RGBhighEnd didn't helped much. Sorry guys I think I'm getting too confusing with my post. So what I did to get my 80% and 30% readings right was changed color temperature to 5500 to begin with and then everything worked, or so I thought until I saw my charts...
If you're still reading- please help
In the meanwhile- I need to get out of the house, haven't seen daylight for 4 days

I have the same problems with the gamma,how can we adjust this to make it any better?


I dont get it,i have read the manual over and over again..
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post #5324 of 5778 Old 01-27-2015, 04:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Looks like you are clipping very badly, someone with your projector might have a suggestion for setting contrast or maybe it's related to an automatic iris or other light limiting technique.
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post #5325 of 5778 Old 01-27-2015, 05:15 AM
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Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
Looks like you are clipping very badly, someone with your projector might have a suggestion for setting contrast or maybe it's related to an automatic iris or other light limiting technique.

Thanks Zoyd. I hope someone will join with same project and leade us all with similar issues to the right direction. Just to clarify jvc rs46/x35 doesn't have automated iris. I've got it on a lowest position and running ''low'' light.
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post #5326 of 5778 Old 01-27-2015, 06:01 AM
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Is there a way to read 'real time' Delta E errors when adjusting the white balance whilst calibrating a projector. I'm sure I was able to see this when calibrating my TV the other week.?

I know the Delta E errors are displayed after taking Grayscale measurements.
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post #5327 of 5778 Old 01-27-2015, 06:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gediminas Jarulaitis View Post
Thanks Zoyd. I hope someone will join with same project and leade us all with similar issues to the right direction. Just to clarify jvc rs46/x35 doesn't have automated iris. I've got it on a lowest position and running ''low'' light.
ok, I actually got it backwards, the plot shown above rises out of the shadows too quickly so this is not a clipping problem - something is wrong with the projector's transfer function (gamma).

Looking at the rs series user manual there looks to be a detailed gamma adjustment available so maybe you should start there.

Last edited by zoyd; 01-27-2015 at 06:27 AM.
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post #5328 of 5778 Old 01-27-2015, 06:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Is there a way to read 'real time' Delta E errors when adjusting the white balance whilst calibrating a projector. I'm sure I was able to see this when calibrating my TV the other week.?

I know the Delta E errors are displayed after taking Grayscale measurements.
Real-time errors and RGB level percentages of target level are reported when running in continuous mode (green arrow) for the pattern level you have selected in the grayscale columns.
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post #5329 of 5778 Old 01-27-2015, 07:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by magicj1 View Post
Is there a way to read 'real time' Delta E errors when adjusting the white balance whilst calibrating a projector. I'm sure I was able to see this when calibrating my TV the other week.?

I know the Delta E errors are displayed after taking Grayscale measurements.
Real-time errors and RGB level percentages of target level are reported when running in continuous mode (green arrow) for the pattern level you have selected in the grayscale columns.
Thanks Zoyd.

Yep found that. I just can't see the Delta E symbol when calibrating my PJ. I could when calibrating my TV. Is there any reason for this?
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post #5330 of 5778 Old 01-27-2015, 07:58 AM - Thread Starter
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post #5331 of 5778 Old 01-27-2015, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
Not that I know of but I can't visualize what problem you are having.
Posted some screen shots:

I run HCFR on two PC's. The one that I use to calibrate my PJ if missing the Delta E percentage level. Is there a setting for this or ?
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post #5332 of 5778 Old 01-27-2015, 11:38 AM - Thread Starter
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post #5333 of 5778 Old 01-27-2015, 04:23 PM
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gwgill:
Thanks, mate! I just started trying this display calibration stuff and, like anything, it can have a steep learning curve.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gwgill View Post
Instead I can say right away that either your i1pro is faulty, or there are serious USB communication issues.
See Post 5293: " Problem solved. The EEProm in question has to be able to do 2-way communication. When the USB cable being used is a POS, the only recourse is to replace it. Having done that, everything is good."

Now that I have a valid USB path and that is fixed, I made a comment regarding the field of view between the two devices and after reading some information regarding FOV, there is an opinion that in order to best profile the D3 to the I1 Pro, the field of view should be the same. Makes sense to me, if a 5" diameter FOV for the I1 Pro represents 1000 pixels (for example) then the D3 should view the same FOV for the same number of pixels. All things equal, the light gathered by the two would hopefully be the same. Now whether the sensitivity of the two devices is the same, that's another unknown for me. Just a newbie question before I set about making a 'properly spaced' 2-device holder for profiling to a projector and ensuing calibration. Thanks again!
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post #5334 of 5778 Old 01-27-2015, 10:05 PM
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Looks like an old version

I see. Yep, think it's 2 versions old now. Only kept it because I find with the newer versions I have to Measures/Generator/Configure/OK each time I start a fresh session. If not I have to 'Task manager' close HCFR and start again.
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post #5335 of 5778 Old 01-28-2015, 12:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gediminas Jarulaitis View Post
Hi there fellas, first time poster here, be gentle
To begin with- I NEED YOUR HELP! I've already spend all weekend trying to calibrate my JVC X35 with i1D3 and HCFR
[snip...]
The only thing that looks ''right'' is RGB levels. Luminance, and especially gamma are way off compared to reference line.
I suggest you check your input range settings, you should have 0-255 or 16-235 set in consistent manner in your projector, avr, graphics card and in hcfr. 16-235 is probably easier to start with, as 0-255 gets tricky sometimes.
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post #5336 of 5778 Old 01-28-2015, 09:23 AM
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Hello there,


When i calibrate my projector i need to set it on non refresh,and projector..
But when i calibrate through a pair of 3d glasses need i put it on refresh then?


Best regards
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post #5337 of 5778 Old 01-28-2015, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trashmon View Post
I made a comment regarding the field of view between the two devices and after reading some information regarding FOV, there is an opinion that in order to best profile the D3 to the I1 Pro, the field of view should be the same. Makes sense to me, if a 5" diameter FOV for the I1 Pro represents 1000 pixels (for example) then the D3 should view the same FOV for the same number of pixels. All things equal, the light gathered by the two would hopefully be the same. Now whether the sensitivity of the two devices is the same, that's another unknown for me. Just a newbie question before I set about making a 'properly spaced' 2-device holder for profiling to a projector and ensuing calibration. Thanks again!
Are you doing a session profile or are you trying to create a matrix that can be used "independently" of the i1Pro?

In the former case, the FOV is completely irrelevant as long as the i1Pro was at a reasonable distance. In the latter case, why bother? If you have the i1Pro available, you might as well take the time to re-profile the D3 at the start of every session. The information that you've read is more appropriate for creating the "built-in" corrections for a C6 or the like ... and even then the issue isn't exactly clear cut.
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post #5338 of 5778 Old 01-28-2015, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by karrih View Post
I suggest you check your input range settings, you should have 0-255 or 16-235 set in consistent manner in your projector, avr, graphics card and in hcfr. 16-235 is probably easier to start with, as 0-255 gets tricky sometimes.
Hi and thanks for input, Karrih. I googled around about my graphics card all day and people talking that it has limited output range so you cannot set it to full rgb. So my projector was set up for that all the time. I dont know, I thought calibrating monitors and projectors is fun
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post #5339 of 5778 Old 01-29-2015, 11:16 AM
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I can rent a ColorMunki spectro for $60 with shipping. Is it worth doing this to calibrate my i1D3? Or am I just chasing perfection? I have a Samsung PN60F8500, and am using the Plasma EDR setting in HCFR.

Samsung PN60F8500, TiVo Roamio, ASRock Vision 3D HTPC, Chromecast
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post #5340 of 5778 Old 01-29-2015, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john2910 View Post
Hello there,


When i calibrate my projector i need to set it on non refresh,and projector..
But when i calibrate through a pair of 3d glasses need i put it on refresh then?


Best regards

Somebody knows?
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