HCFR - Open source projector and display calibration software - Page 185 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #5521 of 5537 Old 02-22-2015, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
Thanks, I'll check it out. By the way, which patterns did you run and in what sequence, it looks like they are 75% stimulus for the primaries correct?
MCD, full field, 75A
Gray scale, Primaries and secondaries, saturation Primary and secondary colors, Color Checker, Near black, Near White
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post #5522 of 5537 Old 02-23-2015, 10:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by WPWoodJr View Post
Today the green 0% is varying from 2.8 dE on a full sweep to 0.2 dE on just a green sweep.
I'll see if I can add an optional stabilizing pattern prior to the automatic scans.
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post #5523 of 5537 Old 02-23-2015, 10:14 PM
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A forum member was kind enough to lend me a ColorMunki spectro corrected by a Jeti. I used it to correct my iD3. As you can see below there is not a huge difference between gray scale corrected (avg dE 0.37, max 0.68) vs uncorrected (avg dE 0.47, max 1.07) and Pantone Skin Tones corrected (avg: 0.95, max 1.90) vs uncorrected (avg 1.04, max 2.16).

Uncorrected iD3:


Corrected iD3:


Still, nice to be as accurate as possible
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post #5524 of 5537 Old 02-24-2015, 05:13 AM
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Hi,

I've been using projectors and doing my own setup since 1999. I'm still not very good at it but then I'm also not trying to sell my calibration services either.

I have great tools ... i1 Pro spectro, i1d3 retail, laptop bought specifically for calibration using a hdmi output directly (un-altered display profile), HCFR.

Today I have hard to find time and I really want to get a good calibration of my current pj in it's fully light controlled room. The pj is Sony HW30ES. (And I'm only interested in calibrating 2D output.)

My goals will be to turn off all "enhancements" like motion compensation and dynamic iris and restore to defaults and then setup up Levels, GreyScale, Gamma and Gamut. I will profile the i1d3 using the i1 spectro.

So,... would anyone recommend some settings I need to get right in HCFR? Gamma?... measured black level compensation? Windows vs full screen patterns? 75% saturation patterns?, Which references for color checker? Which method for Delta E?


Edit - while I wait for suggestions, I'm going to search this thread for answers. I've been study-ing gamma options and such from the first post and seems hard to decipher. I know I only have 2 point control but for the moment I think my best bet is to leave all options at defaults unless I get suggestions otherwise.

Edit 2 => I see luxmeter mentioned in the advanced preferences tab and I bought one of those,... should I use it and input data manually?..so many options,.. I would love to write the guide but I should not since there is still so much for me to learn.

edit 3 - Death by options....There are so many and some of the preferences I read up on in the first thread end up being gone from the latest version that I'm using. I switched to Pantone color checker options just because I see that in the poster above's graphs and he looks like he's ahead of me in understanding. Plus... pantone has a nice sound to it. ...

-Brian

Last edited by Brian Hampton; 02-24-2015 at 06:31 AM.
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post #5525 of 5537 Old 02-24-2015, 06:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Yes, stick to the defaults for your first run (if you need to restore defaults delete the colorHCFR.ini file). With only a 2-point adjustment you won't be able to fine-tune gamma other than to use a projector preset that get's you close (projector/dark room should target something close to 2.4). The current software has not been tested with the supported LX-1108 Luxmeter so I have no idea if it will work, plus it's usually sufficient to shoot for an off-screen luminance reading in the 12-22 ftL range.

Once a basic RGB balance and CMS at the gamut edges is performed you can evaluate whether further work is needed like using the alternative set of control points offered by the 75%/75% setting.
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Last edited by zoyd; 02-24-2015 at 07:22 AM.
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post #5526 of 5537 Old 02-24-2015, 07:11 AM
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Thank you so much. I don't have "that" luxmeter so forget the luxmeter part. Thanks again...
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post #5527 of 5537 Old 02-24-2015, 01:33 PM
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Had lots of fun calibrating today. I really like using the HDMI out of my laptop to provide the patterns to the screen.

I changed the color measures to HSV as I've read that's the format the Sony CMS uses and it seemed to work well. I could adjust the various options of the CMS to see which way the Delta E was going with each.

One issue I've had is my pj measures a low gamma with defaults. Others that review the pj seem to say it's around 2.2 out of the box but mine is more like 1.7. Today I managed to get it to 2 but 2.4 for me seems impossible.

(Unless I can use image director ... That program gives a lot more than 10 point control... you can change the gamma curve of all 3 colors with a lot of precision... I just don't know if I even want to go there... maybe... tomorrow.)Edit- opps I forgot, I don't think my new calibration laptop has a serial port. So I don't think I can use image director.... not sure if I really wanted to alter the pj gamma curves anyway.

-Brian

Last edited by Brian Hampton; 02-24-2015 at 01:43 PM.
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post #5528 of 5537 Old 02-24-2015, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Hampton View Post
I just don't know if I even want to go there... maybe... tomorrow.)
Of COURSE you want to go there!
You NEED to go there!
GO THERE!


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Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
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post #5529 of 5537 Old 02-24-2015, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
Of COURSE you want to go there!
You NEED to go there!
GO THERE!

It's so fast to measure using the built I patterns, I will run through all the gamma presets and see how it goes. They can all be adjusted at the high and low end also.

I don't know why my gamma measures low others say the pj has a native gamma of 2.2. Could be my screen or just that my screen is so small.

If I am going to try the image director software I think I will need to get a usb to rs232 adapter.
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post #5530 of 5537 Old 02-24-2015, 05:41 PM
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^ I can make the (average) gamma measure just about whatever you want it to measure, within reason, just by adjusting the test pattern format. Well, at least I think I can... It is rather time-consuming to find out what pattern format translates into not only "good" measurements, but what measurements correlate with a good-looking (to you) picture, for your particular display. Not the same thing, requires specific experience. All sorts of people complain about "poor" professional calibrations, far more than post in this forum even. Decisions need to be made during a cal, there's never only one good option, and you have to learn how to make the choices you'll like. Nobody else can make them for you, and that's why many choose to DIY in the first place.

To put another way: I can choose a test pattern format, and calibrate to that as though it's 100% accurate/"true". It will look totally different to a cal done to another (substantially) different but still valid pattern format. You can see people argue the merits of pattern formats on this site. You can bet you'll hate the cal done with some of those formats, I can't say which for you. I know I absolutely hate some of them on my main set.

IOW again, your gamma may be 2.2 but you're just not measuring it using the pattern format the manufacturer used to spec it at 2.2
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post #5531 of 5537 Old 02-25-2015, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by cfraser View Post
^ I can make the (average) gamma measure just about whatever you want it to measure, within reason, just by adjusting the test pattern format. Well, at least I think I can... It is rather time-consuming to find out what pattern format translates into not only "good" measurements, but what measurements correlate with a good-looking (to you) picture, for your particular display. Not the same thing, requires specific experience. All sorts of people complain about "poor" professional calibrations, far more than post in this forum even. Decisions need to be made during a cal, there's never only one good option, and you have to learn how to make the choices you'll like. Nobody else can make them for you, and that's why many choose to DIY in the first place.

To put another way: I can choose a test pattern format, and calibrate to that as though it's 100% accurate/"true". It will look totally different to a cal done to another (substantially) different but still valid pattern format. You can see people argue the merits of pattern formats on this site. You can bet you'll hate the cal done with some of those formats, I can't say which for you. I know I absolutely hate some of them on my main set.

IOW again, your gamma may be 2.2 but you're just not measuring it using the pattern format the manufacturer used to spec it at 2.2
Had even more fun calibrating today because the speed of using internal test patterns makes it easier to get more done. I have a good light output (18 or so Flb... with the lamp on low) ... but contrast was low at first something like 800:1 and gamma was low like 1.8. I got gamma up to about 2 and contrast up to about 1900:1 but I am still learning. I think contrast is supposed to be much higher but looking at the pic the light output is good and black level is good.

I may indeed use Image Director because it lets you get gamma perfect... I'll have to get some hardware (Serial Cable and some thing to give my fairly new laptop a RS232 port.)

Edit - And ... to touch on what you were saying.. I've always enjoyed doing my own projector setup. I got hooked with CRT projector that needed lots of setup beyond what the current pjs can be adjusted for ... I just love the act of pj setup so for that reason I wouldn't think of hiring the job out... it's all mine.
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post #5532 of 5537 Old 02-26-2015, 02:37 PM - Thread Starter
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New version uploaded, main changes are an update to the ArgyllCMS meter code (tested with D3, Colormunki photo, JETI 1211, spyder 2, HCFR probe, D2, i1pro 2, and C3), please report any probe issues with the new code.

Also made it easier to run additional combinations of stimulus/saturation levels using the internal generator or madTPG. For example you can now set the pattern intensity (stimulus) level to any value and run a saturation sweep and get valid error data as long as you run your primaries/secondaries sweep at the same level. With the previous addition of saturation level selection of displayed color, that means you could theoretically calibrate your CMS to any combination of stimulus/saturation level you'd like.

3.1.9
-------
  • Fix delta luminance calc for saturation sweeps.
  • Added WRGBW settling pattern option for internal patterns.
  • Reorganized white reference selection logic.
  • Allow running saturation sweeps/color checker from special color spaces.
  • Allow running <100% intensity(stimulus) saturation sweeps.
  • Finalized controls points for OPT color space option.
  • Updated meter code to ArgyllCMS 1.7beta_Jan10 (includes Klein K10a support)
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Last edited by zoyd; 02-26-2015 at 06:06 PM.
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post #5533 of 5537 Old 02-26-2015, 06:36 PM
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I calibrated to the OPT space the other day and so far I like the results. Skin colors seem more life-like and not as saturated. What tweaks did you make to OPT?

Also I'd suggest naming it Plasma Opt or something like that since its for plasmas.

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post #5534 of 5537 Old 02-26-2015, 07:39 PM - Thread Starter
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If you used the beta version I linked here a few days ago there are no changes in the OPT control points. The sourceforge 3.1.8 version had an older set that favored low values of saturation for the RGB points and they did not perform overall quite as well as the new ones.
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post #5535 of 5537 Old 02-26-2015, 08:15 PM
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If you used the beta version I linked here a few days ago there are no changes in the OPT control points. The sourceforge 3.1.8 version had an older set that favored low values of saturation for the RGB points and they did not perform overall quite as well as the new ones.
I didn't use the beta. That explains the lower saturation in my calibration

I'll definitely try the new version. Hoping my reds have stabilized since I stopped using the splitter although I can't think why that would make a difference.

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post #5536 of 5537 Old Yesterday, 04:49 PM
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What is the reason the dE bar is stuck at 0.0? Makes it even harder for live reading for the CMS.

Uninstalled, reinstalled and it doesn't shift from 0.0. Started with 3.1.8.
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post #5537 of 5537 Old Today, 04:52 AM - Thread Starter
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I think you are running it without selecting the color to work on. In order to support real-time measures of all the sweeps I had to change how the program detects which color you are working on so even for the primaries you have to select the desired color prior to continuous measures.
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