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Old 04-11-2015, 08:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
Thank you zoyd, for the continued efforts. I ran the new version briefly and noticed some minor quirks:

1. When starting a new measurement set, the program automatically populates the Y-Targets for 10% - 90% columns. I thought these could only be computed when the 0% and 100% values are measured or entered manually?

2. Related to 1. above, wouldn't it be more "consistent" (for presentation purpose) to include the measured values for 0% and 100% in the Y-Target row?
The program initializes with dummy values in the background for black and white. I don't see any advantage in filling target values for black and white because they are not standardized.

Quote:
3. The new "auto-populate" feature for gray scale seems to behave erratically if I use the "unique measure" (camera icon). I noticed it mostly for the 1st (10%) column, but have seen it for other columns as well. If I use the "continuous measure" (green triangle icon) it works consistently.
Cells won't update if you are greater than 0.03 dxy away from target (this is true for primary/secondary measures too), is that what you mean by erratic?

Quote:
4. Related to 3. above, if I take measurements by manually go through the columns one by one, the graphs (e.g., "RGB Levels Graph") sometimes remains blank.
The RGB levels graph won't automatically update unless you do a full scan (you can select it from the drop-down and it will update). I'll fix that for next version. You can also use the history graph which does update with real-time measures.
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Old 04-11-2015, 09:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
The program initializes with dummy values in the background for black and white. I don't see any advantage in filling target values for black and white because they are not standardized.
Presumably the black and white values are the basis of the in between values. Also, it would be useful if the user can manually enter these two values and have the program compute the in-between values.

Quote:
Cells won't update if you are greater than 0.03 dxy away from target (this is true for primary/secondary measures too), is that what you mean by erratic?
No, even with a blank sheet it happens.
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Old 04-11-2015, 09:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
Presumably the black and white values are the basis of the in between values. Also, it would be useful if the user can manually enter these two values and have the program compute the in-between values.
You can, click the editable data checkbox and enter your 0% Y and 100% Y values. If you have a probe matrix applied you'll have to uncheck the modify XYZ checkbox first.


Quote:
No, even with a blank sheet it happens.
You'll have to post some screen shots, I'm not getting what you are referring to.

Edit: nevermind, I think I know what you mean. When you measure any of the grayscale levels with the exception of black, the measurement must be within 0.03 dxy of the target white point in order to update that slot. This will happen regardless of whether you have already done a sweep or not. The reason this is done is to avoid (as much as possible) menu changes from erroneously populating the saved measures values during real-time tweaking.

Last edited by zoyd; 04-11-2015 at 09:51 AM.
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Old 04-11-2015, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
You'll have to post some screen shots, I'm not getting what you are referring to.

Edit: nevermind, I think I know what you mean. When you measure any of the grayscale levels with the exception of black, the measurement must be within 0.03 dxy of the target white point in order to update that slot. This will happen regardless of whether you have already done a sweep or not. The reason this is done is to avoid (as much as possible) menu changes from erroneously populating the saved measures values during real-time tweaking.
Here's a screen shot. I can click on most columns and do a single reading to populate that column, except the 10% column.
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Old 04-11-2015, 01:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Old 04-11-2015, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
Yes, because it's too far off target
Thanks for the explanation. I was using a simulated sensor with the default offsets (2/1/3 for R/G/B respectively). Presumably these values exceed the threshold for the 10% column but not the other columns.
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Old 04-11-2015, 04:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
I just compared the XRite plasma correction on an 8500 between CalMAN and HCFR and both measure the same within probe precision:

1-sigma standard deviation of 10%-100% gray levels: dx=0.000495 dy=0.000462 dY=0.140

The maximum deviation in either x or y was 0.0012

Also - for those interested in the plasma spectral correction for the i1d3, here are the grayscale errors you can expect when compared to a correction based on a reference spectrometer (JETI 1211 in this case). Red was 1.5% low and blue was 2.2% high.

Code:
%stim	 dE2k
10     	0.2
20	     0.4
30	     0.6
40	     0.7
50	     0.8
60	     0.9
70    	 1.0
80	     1.2
90	     1.2
100	    1.3
Correction matrix to map plasma EDR based correction to JETI 1211
Code:
1.085195  	0.009410	  -0.003509
0.003101	  1.086654  	-0.000754
-0.008047	  0.014608	  1.063265
So this correction, is it just for the F8500 or between the JETI and i1D3? Would it be useless to try on my VT50?
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Old 04-11-2015, 04:57 PM - Thread Starter
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It may improve the accuracy of your D3 when used on a plasma by a small amount. I tested it on another D3 I have and there was a reduction in the errors shown by about a factor of 2. Not as good as a direct matrix correction but better than using just the plasma type spectral correction. If you want to use it make sure you select the plasma type display and then apply the matrix.
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Old 04-11-2015, 07:30 PM
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zoyd,


sorry to ask a noob question, but I scanned the lead post and could not find any obvious pointer.


I have successfully used an i1DisplayPro with HCFR.


I just got a used i1Pro and successfully passed the X-Rite diagnostics test (which means some sort of drivers must now be present).


HCFR does not see the i1Pro - can you point me to somewhere where I can understand what I need to do?


Tbanks.
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Old 04-11-2015, 08:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
zoyd,


sorry to ask a noob question, but I scanned the lead post and could not find any obvious pointer.


I have successfully used an i1DisplayPro with HCFR.


I just got a used i1Pro and successfully passed the X-Rite diagnostics test (which means some sort of drivers must now be present).


HCFR does not see the i1Pro - can you point me to somewhere where I can understand what I need to do?


Tbanks.
uninstall the x-rite stuff.

Loving D65
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Old 04-11-2015, 08:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Old 04-11-2015, 08:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
zoyd,

HCFR does not see the i1Pro - can you point me to somewhere where I can understand what I need to do?
In Windows Device Manager, find your device and select Update Driver. Then point it to the Argyll driver in the HCFR folder.
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Old 04-11-2015, 11:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
In Windows Device Manager, find your device and select Update Driver. Then point it to the Argyll driver in the HCFR folder.
Thanks - that did the trick!
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Old 04-12-2015, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
3.2.0
-------
  • Grayscale added to detect user measures routine for auto-population of new measures
  • Write log only when requested
  • Changed log name to ColorHCFR.log
  • Changed user colors filename from colors.csv to usercolors.csv
  • Added support for custom DVD scans
  • Ted's disk sequences are included in usercolors_pak.zip
  • User colors in video levels with pattern name in 4th column, sequence title as 5th element of line 1
  • Fixed display of white pattern for 75% and OPT color spaces
  • Replaced AXIS sequence with 10 point luminance scan to match CalMan/Ted's disk
  • YTarget populates with just black/white measurement or manual edit
  • Default grayscale page size changed to unhide Ytarget row
  • Changed name of OPT color space to OPT-Plasma
Hi Zoyd,

I have posted setup instructions for HCFR users that are using my disk here: Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk

Thanks for providing them more measurement options.
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Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5

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Old 04-13-2015, 09:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

The RGB levels graph won't automatically update unless you do a full scan (you can select it from the drop-down and it will update). I'll fix that for next version. You can also use the history graph which does update with real-time measures.
Instead of new revision I just uploaded a fixed 3.2.0 version that will update the RGB,Luminance,Gamma,and Colortemp graphs after single or during continuous free measures.
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Old 04-13-2015, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
It may improve the accuracy of your D3 when used on a plasma by a small amount. I tested it on another D3 I have and there was a reduction in the errors shown by about a factor of 2. Not as good as a direct matrix correction but better than using just the plasma type spectral correction. If you want to use it make sure you select the plasma type display and then apply the matrix.
Hi zoyd, I've been having trouble figuring out if I'm getting proper readings from my i1d3 combined with my Panasonic GT25 plasma. I don't have access to a spectrometer so I've been relying on matrix offsets I've found online. Here's what I've been working with, at least until I saw the one you posted this morning:

1.0383 -0.015199 -0.012862
0.030022 0.96707 -0.0048218
-0.00042114 0.0066268 0.95594

Sourced from post #4 on this thread
http://www.**************.com/displa...l#.VSbl940o7qA

Quote:
If you plan on using the i1D3 with HCFR, you can download correction tables here. This will not provide you with the same level of accuracy as the tables Chromapure gives you with the i1D3 Pro, because the tables Chromapure gives you are for your specific meter. Just like displays, meters have unit-to-unit variations too, although the i1D3 meters have fairly small unit-to-unit variations.

To use a correction table from the link above, once you find a correction table, don't click on the download icon, click on the name of the correction table. It will lead you to a page with a bunch of text and numbers. At the bottom, there are sets of numbers.... these are the offsets/corrections. For example, here is one for a Panasonic plasma (in fact, the one I used for my ST50):
1.0383 -0.015199 -0.012862
0.030022 0.96707 -4.8218e-003 (or -0.0048218)
-4.2114e-004 (or -0.00042114) 6.6268e-003 (or 0.0066268) 0.95594

You have to enter these numbers in the sensor matrix tab in HCFR. You can also save the file so you don't have to keep manually entering this in. To do this, start a new calibration file in HCFR, enter the sensor matrix offsets in the initial setup; once the setup is complete, go to Advanced -> meter correction file -> save meter correction file. It will save a .thc file in which you need to place it in the X:\Program Files\HCFR Calibration\Etalon_Argyll folder so that when you start another calibration, you can select it from the dropdown box of the initial setup when it asks if you want to use a correction matrix.

The latest versions of HCFR can be found here. There have been some significant changes from the original version. zoyd added everything John was working on, and he also added his own things. If you have any questions, pm member zoyd, or post it in the Fork HCFR thread at AVS in the Display Calibration forum.

Again, HCFR is a very capable program if you know what you're doing, but it isn't nearly as user friendly as the pay software.
rahzel say's they came from a Panasonic Plasma here: http://dispcalgui.hoech.net/colorimetercorrections/
but I can't seem to find them there to verify.

Now I've noticed they're quite different from yours, could it be Samsung vs Panasonic plasma differences?

You mention using the Plasma Display Type, I had been setting it to "Refresh" display and entering the matrix values. What's the difference? Should I re-do the calibration?

Thank you, I really appreciate you keeping HCFR going.

Edit: One more question.. is MadVR TPG effected by the MadVR color range setting? (0-255 vs 16-235)

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Last edited by Zodduska; 04-13-2015 at 11:18 AM.
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Old 04-13-2015, 12:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zodduska View Post
Hi zoyd, I've been having trouble figuring out if I'm getting proper readings from my i1d3 combined with my Panasonic GT25 plasma. I don't have access to a spectrometer so I've been relying on matrix offsets I've found online. Here's what I've been working with, at least until I saw the one you posted this morning:
I recommend using the plasma display type correction if you don't have your own spectrometer.


Quote:

Now I've noticed they're quite different from yours, could it be Samsung vs Panasonic plasma differences?

You mention using the Plasma Display Type, I had been setting it to "Refresh" display and entering the matrix values. What's the difference? Should I re-do the calibration?

Thank you, I really appreciate you keeping HCFR going.
Samsung, Panasonic and LG all have very similar plasma spectral distributions so the matrix probably looks different for 2 other reasons. The first is that corrections for Y will often be different depending on the age of the colorimeter and which spectrometer is used but these are of no consequence as they don't affect the chromaticity. The second is that is was profiled using the plasma display type instead of raw XYZ (refresh type).

Using the display type correction removes some probe-to-probe variation so applying a matrix derived under those conditions is a better approach than applying a borrowed matrix to the raw readings. Whether is makes a visible difference I don't know, I tested it on a spare probe and it did measure better but I don't know if that would hold up over many such tests.

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Edit: One more question.. is MadVR TPG effected by the MadVR color range setting? (0-255 vs 16-235)
yes.
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Old 04-13-2015, 12:16 PM
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That makes perfect sense, I'll give it another go tonight, thanks again!

On a side note, I'm trying to use DispcalGUI to create 3dLut for madVR after my manual calibration of the grayscale using service menu CUT and DRV. Would I be correct to assume that I should use the raw XYZ matrix offsets rather than your matrix settings for dispcalgui because its missing the plasma profile? (I think I can only select non-refresh or refresh)

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Old 04-13-2015, 12:52 PM
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@Zoid m8 sorry for the dumb question but i need a correction matrix for the i1 pro? From what i have read it is spectrophotometer so it doesn't want but i wanna be sure.

As from my try to calibrate my tv i have reached a good result but in no way i can reach good blue and green primaries because in cms when i alter the settings for this 2 colours and taking measures nothing is changed. ... i will attach here my latest results and any help is welcome.

LG55ub950v-BlueChris-13042015AfterCalibration5.rar

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Old 04-13-2015, 01:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zodduska View Post
That makes perfect sense, I'll give it another go tonight, thanks again!

On a side note, I'm trying to use DispcalGUI to create 3dLut for madVR after my manual calibration of the grayscale using service menu CUT and DRV. Would I be correct to assume that I should use the raw XYZ matrix offsets rather than your matrix settings for dispcalgui because its missing the plasma profile? (I think I can only select non-refresh or refresh)
I believe you need to "Import colorimeter corrections from other display profiling software..." using your XRite installation disk before DCG will populate that selection.

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m8 sorry for the dumb question but i need a correction matrix for the i1 pro? From what i have read it is spectrophotometer so it doesn't want but i wanna be sure
Right, if you have the i1pro (version 1 or 2) spectrometer you don't need a correction file.
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Old 04-13-2015, 01:06 PM
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I had post the link above... something is wrong in my gamma... i have off all the gadgets that the tv has like micro dimming but if you see my gamma is crazy.... and LG doesnt have 10point gamma calibration that i read that other tv's have...

I have a question also. .. in preferences for the i1 pro i tick the high resolution?

Last edited by BlueChris; 04-13-2015 at 01:12 PM.
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Old 04-13-2015, 01:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BlueChris View Post
I had post the link above... something is wrong in my gamma... i have off all the gadgets that the tv has like micro dimming but if you see my gamma is crazy.... and LG doesnt have 10point gamma calibration that i read that other tv's have...
I don't know enough about your display to help, there is some calibration info on it here. Also ask in dedicated owner's thread.

Quote:
I have a question also. .. in preferences for the i1 pro i tick the high resolution?
It makes very little difference so I would leave it off.
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Old 04-13-2015, 02:16 PM
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I've got a question regarding .ccss and correction matrix.

I have the following:
i1 Pro Rev D (no base)
i1 Pro Rev A (With base/bought for the monitor attachments/passes diagnostic)
i1D3

Both i1 Pro spectros say that 100% white is ~130cdm2, and they measure almost identically to each other. If I make a profile my i1D3 will say white is ~130cdm2 and black is 0.007cdm2.

If I use the i1D3 on it own, or with the included plasma .ccss, or with the .ccss I made it says white is ~150cdm2 and black is 0.008cdm2.

I'm assuming the i1D3 luminance measuresare correct here.

To my eye the .ccss correction bares more resemblance to what I can see tint wise.

If the i1 Pro spectro sucks at reading low luminance (it guesses that black is 0.2cdm2) can it accurately make a profile considering that blue has low luminance colour?

And does Hi-res mode make a difference?
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Old 04-13-2015, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueChris View Post
I had post the link above... something is wrong in my gamma... i have off all the gadgets that the tv has like micro dimming but if you see my gamma is crazy.... and LG doesnt have 10point gamma calibration that i read that other tv's have...
From the link zoyd provided, it appears that your TV does have the 2-pt and 20-pt controls under the Expert Controls. If those controls are only for R/G/B (no white), then you should be able to adjust all 3 colours in unison to get the target Y for your desired Gamma.
BTW, your 100% luminance measurement seems very high - 224 cd/m^2. It may be clipping which would affect the gamma. It was much more reasonable (136) in your previous measurement.
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Old 04-13-2015, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
From the link zoyd provided, it appears that your TV does have the 2-pt and 20-pt controls under the Expert Controls. If those controls are only for R/G/B (no white), then you should be able to adjust all 3 colours in unison to get the target Y for your desired Gamma.
BTW, your 100% luminance measurement seems very high - 224 cd/m^2. It may be clipping which would affect the gamma. It was much more reasonable (136) in your previous measurement.
Thx m8 i have 2 and 20 point controls and with them i fix my grayscale ... if i misunderstood that then there is my overall mistake, imagine to achieve that grayscale i have done this alterings in 2pt-20pt

Colour Temperature: Warm1
Method: 2 points
Point : High | R18 | G41 | B-50
Point : Low | R10 | G0 | B7

Method: 20 points
Luminance 130
IRE5 | R-9 | G0 | B-22
IRE10 | R-5 | G0 | B-12
IRE15 | R-3 | G0 | B-7
IRE20 | R0 | G0 | B-2
IRE25 | R0 | G0 | B0
IRE30 | R0 | G0 | B0
IRE35 | R3 | G0 | B-1
IRE40 | R5 | G0 | B-1
IRE45 | R8 | G0 | B-2
IRE50 | R12 | G0 | B-9
IRE55 | R6 | G0 | B4
IRE60 | R8 | G0 | B7
IRE65 | R6 | G0 | B7
IRE70 | R6 | G0 | B7
IRE75 | R6 | G0 | B5
IRE80 | R0 | G0 | B0
IRE85 | R-2 | G0 | B-5
IRE90 | R-4 | G0 | B-35
IRE95 | R-8 | G0 | B-50
IRE100 | R-12 | G0 | B-50

I had read the review in the link but seems what i got as problem in blue and green is the same in that review if you see the CIEDiagram there and the reviewers also claim that they tried to fix some errors with CMS but the TV didnt follow.
As for my luminance i went to Warm1 setting thats why my cd/m2 raised

Last edited by BlueChris; 04-13-2015 at 02:58 PM.
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Old 04-13-2015, 03:08 PM
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Thx m8 i have 2 and 20 point controls and with them i fix my grayscale ... if i misunderstood that then there is my overall mistake, imagine to achieve that grayscale i have done this alterings in 2pt-20pt

Colour Temperature: Warm1
Method: 2 points
Point : High | R18 | G41 | B-50
Point : Low | R10 | G0 | B7

Method: 20 points
Luminance 130
IRE5 | R-9 | G0 | B-22
IRE10 | R-5 | G0 | B-12
IRE15 | R-3 | G0 | B-7
IRE20 | R0 | G0 | B-2
IRE25 | R0 | G0 | B0
IRE30 | R0 | G0 | B0
IRE35 | R3 | G0 | B-1
IRE40 | R5 | G0 | B-1
IRE45 | R8 | G0 | B-2
IRE50 | R12 | G0 | B-9
IRE55 | R6 | G0 | B4
IRE60 | R8 | G0 | B7
IRE65 | R6 | G0 | B7
IRE70 | R6 | G0 | B7
IRE75 | R6 | G0 | B5
IRE80 | R0 | G0 | B0
IRE85 | R-2 | G0 | B-5
IRE90 | R-4 | G0 | B-35
IRE95 | R-8 | G0 | B-50
IRE100 | R-12 | G0 | B-50

I had read the review in the link but seems what i got as problem in blue and green is the same in that review if you see the CIEDiagram there and the reviewers also claim that they tried to fix some errors with CMS but the TV didnt follow.
As for my luminance i went to Warm1 setting thats why my cd/m2 raised
those numbers are crazy.

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Old 04-13-2015, 03:37 PM
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I know but from search in internet i have seen this errors from this type of panel... an example is LG 55LW5600 where they have at 2 point
2-point
Contrast: Red -6, Green 0, Blue -34
Brightness: Red 2, Green 0, Blue 1

so the blue appears to have a problem but i maybe i got a problem with the i1? at this moment i dont know and i dont have a way to see this... HCFR gives me that grayscale so nothing i can do more
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Old 04-13-2015, 03:43 PM
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those numbers are crazy.
Looks like there's some severe Green Clipping beyond IRE85. Try reducing the overall luminance to see if it helps.
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Old 04-13-2015, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by BlueChris View Post
I know but from search in internet i have seen this errors from this type of panel... an example is LG 55LW5600 where they have at 2 point
2-point
Contrast: Red -6, Green 0, Blue -34
Brightness: Red 2, Green 0, Blue 1

so the blue appears to have a problem but i maybe i got a problem with the i1? at this moment i dont know and i dont have a way to see this... HCFR gives me that grayscale so nothing i can do more
not just blue but 0 green
green is the major player in gamma
plus the way 100% was major blue change and 0 % also but the steps between were not as great a change.
all while green was 0.
never seen a stock setting flatline gamma.

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Old 04-13-2015, 03:50 PM
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Looks like there's some severe Green Clipping beyond IRE85. Try reducing the overall luminance to see if it helps.
yes, and he is afraid of changing green.

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