HCFR - Open source projector and display calibration software - Page 196 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #5851 of 6576 Old 04-19-2015, 12:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xvfx View Post
Was that the same movie I saw you post a photo of with close up hand shots many months ago? With the same butterfly? That colour tone seems to have stuck in my memory…
yes that's the one. Those were photos though comparing the display calibration to a LUT calibration. The images in HCFR are pulled directly from the blu-ray disc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anta1974 View Post
Dear Zoyd!
Help me please.
ABL for panasonic plasma works from
1) level ARL
or
2) level APL?

You write about level >25% ARL work ABL plasma.
Level APL maybe another or < .... %level?
25% APL or 15% ARL will work just fine on any plasma as long as you keep the window size around 10% or below.
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post #5852 of 6576 Old 04-19-2015, 01:29 PM
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if I use 15% ARL then background will 42% linear light, but perhaps it will not be much?
on plasma may already work ABL ?
Can be used safely 10% ARL ?


ABL depends on only APL or only ARL or APL and ARL???
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post #5853 of 6576 Old 04-19-2015, 01:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anta1974 View Post
if I use 15% ARL then background will 42% linear light, but perhaps it will not be much?
on plasma may already work ABL ?
Unless madshi has changed it 42% for linear light means 0.42^(2.2) = 0.18 or 18%.

Quote:
ABL depends on only APL or only ARL or APL and ARL???
It depends on total power load so either APL or ARL can be used as proxies.
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post #5854 of 6576 Old 04-19-2015, 02:08 PM
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what should be the level APL not to cause ABL ?
<25% or <30% ?
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post #5855 of 6576 Old 04-19-2015, 02:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anta1974 View Post
what should be the level APL not to cause ABL ?
<25% or <30% ?
More like <40% APL or <20% ARL although these can be higher for the F8500. You can easily measure APL effects using HCFR.
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post #5856 of 6576 Old 04-19-2015, 08:52 PM
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Hi, zoyd. I just downloaded a copy of 3.2.1. Terrific program! I'll probably get to it sometime in the next two weeks. It's time for my three month tune up on the 65VT60 with over 6,000 hours on it now.

One comment though. For the younger calibrators among us, you may want to include a test picture like this:



Just look at the realistic skin tones and color of tongue. The representation of the sky make one feel like being right there.

Larry
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post #5857 of 6576 Old 04-19-2015, 09:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
For the display type files you will need the spyder4 install disk to use with oeminst, more detailed info here.
Thank you, that helped me a little bit. Unfortunately I still cant choose a calibration file in the HCFR start window.
Can I put the spyd4cal file manually in the correct destination? Currently its located at:

C:\Users\myusername\AppData\Roaming\ArgyllCMS

Or is it maybe my own misunderstanding that this file is not related to the Menu "external sensor calibration data" ?
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post #5858 of 6576 Old 04-20-2015, 12:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
More like <40% APL or <20% ARL although these can be higher for the F8500. You can easily measure APL effects using HCFR.
1) How to measure ABL? Please tell me.
2) What different madTPG constant background and gamma light?
3) For example 8% area and 30% background in madTPG - count ARL:
- constant gray - ?
- gamma light - 0.3^2.2*0.92+(0 to 1)^2.2*0.08= 6.51%-14.51%
- linear light - 0.3^2.2 (area ignored?)=7.074%

Last edited by anta1974; 04-20-2015 at 02:44 AM.
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post #5859 of 6576 Old 04-20-2015, 03:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by createch2 View Post

Or is it maybe my own misunderstanding that this file is not related to the Menu "external sensor calibration data" ?
yes, the probe specific corrections will be available in the Display Type selection on the next dialog. This is mentioned in the hint on the dialog screen shot. So choose "no external correction" and go to the next page.


Quote:
Originally Posted by anta1974 View Post
1) How to measure ABL? Please tell me.
Measure white Y vs. window area.

Quote:
2) What different madTPG constant background and gamma light?
Example for 30%:

1. Constant background: Background = 30%
2. Gamma light = Constant APL: Background changes with window area/content so that APL=30%
2. Linear light = Constant ARL: Background changes with window area/content so that ARL = 0.3^2.2 = 7%
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post #5860 of 6576 Old 04-20-2015, 04:01 AM
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Then it turns out that my formula ARL is true for counting constant gray, but wrong for gamma light.
How to calculate ARL for gamma light?
APL=30% area=8%
ARL= ?
0.92*x+0.08*(0 to 1)=0.3
ARL=x^2.2*0.92+(0to1)^2.2*0.08
True?

Last edited by anta1974; 04-20-2015 at 04:06 AM.
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post #5861 of 6576 Old 04-20-2015, 07:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
More like <40% APL or <20% ARL although these can be higher for the F8500. You can easily measure APL effects using HCFR.
When I use windows pattern for measure ABL APL=ARL
Why your level APL and ARL different?
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post #5862 of 6576 Old 04-20-2015, 07:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anta1974 View Post
Then it turns out that my formula ARL is true for counting constant gray, but wrong for gamma light.
How to calculate ARL for gamma light?
APL=30% area=8%
ARL= ?
0.92*x+0.08*(0 to 1)=0.3
ARL=x^2.2*0.92+(0to1)^2.2*0.08
True?
yes, but x will have different values such that APL=30% and ARL=7% (0.3^2.2)

constant APL = 0.3 = 0.92 * x1 + 0.08 * y (ex. if y = 0.5, x1 = 0.283)

constant ARL = 0.3^2.2 = 0.07 = 0.92 * x2^2.2 + 0.08 * y^(2.2) (ex. if y = 0.5, x2 = 0.273)
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post #5863 of 6576 Old 04-20-2015, 12:57 PM
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Zoyd,

Outstanding job on the test patterns / evalution images! HCFR is getting better by the day!

With these new features there is hardly any need to use a BR player, either for test patterns, or for evaluation purposes. However, although I set up HCFR as a generator, I find myself using a BR player for 2 test patterns, which could (at least for me) turn HCFR into a full-featured calibration suite if you could add those to the test patterns:

1. Color clipping. As an addition to the RGBYCMW Luma Ramps (0-255), could a pattern like the one found on AVSHD (primaries), or GCD/MCD (primaries or secondaries) be added? So with emphasis on "near white"219-255, or 231-255.

2. Sharpness/overscan. I find the pattern on the AVSHD and MCD very useful because of the percentages shown (the one on DVE is also very nice, steps of 1%, comes in very handy working on CRT's geometry issues).
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Last edited by Slower; 04-20-2015 at 01:00 PM. Reason: typo
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post #5864 of 6576 Old 04-21-2015, 12:50 AM
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Hi!

Unlike most posters here I'm not really experienced in calibration so hopefully you can bear with my questions. I'd also like to take this opportunity to thank all the devs for creating such an easy to use software, even for a novice such as myself. It also works great, even in W10!

I started off running a measurement on my uncalibrated Eizo screen, not perfect by any means but it still looks pretty fair to me.
I did however run into a few problems (likely an user error) when I tried to calibrate the 8750ub. The biggest problem as I see it is that the gamma seems all over the place (not that the rgb tracking(?) is much better, but still).

My setup is, iirc: an i1d2 and I'm projecting my 8750ub on a white 1.0 gain screen hitting ~15ftL. The RGB sliders are pretty much maxed out getting these results (or I would get maybe 60% red from 50-100IRE. I'm also using the 10% 11-step patterns from the AVS HD 709 disc. The PJ is shelf mounted ~5 feet above the floor. I'm guessing I'm missing something fairly basic here. If there's anything else I need to add please let me know and I'll do my best.

Once again, many thanks!
UD
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post #5865 of 6576 Old 04-21-2015, 02:56 AM
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@Zoid m8 sorry for asking if its obvius but i cannot find a stetting to choose in which monitor the Test Patterns will be shown.

thx
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post #5866 of 6576 Old 04-21-2015, 05:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnDecoded View Post
The biggest problem as I see it is that the gamma seems all over the place (not that the rgb tracking(?) is much better, but still).
Which preset mode did you select, prior to making the adjustments? The User Manual recommends using the Natural mode.
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post #5867 of 6576 Old 04-21-2015, 06:06 AM - Thread Starter
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post #5868 of 6576 Old 04-21-2015, 06:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
Which preset mode did you select, prior to making the adjustments? The User Manual recommends using the Natural mode.
Hello and thank you for your reply Dominic!

I know I forgot something and you have a great point!

I used the living room mode (which I'm guessing is another variant of the dynamic mode...) as it was the only way I could push the ftL over 9. It might be a good idea doing some measurements in Natural and possibly shrink the image size instead (currently at 117 which going by the calculations may be pushing it").

Cheers
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post #5869 of 6576 Old 04-21-2015, 06:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnDecoded View Post
I used the living room mode (which I'm guessing is another variant of the dynamic mode...) as it was the only way I could push the ftL over 9.
In the Living Room mode, if your cut down the Contrast before doing the calibration, you may still get more lumens than the other modes. If necessary, you can also aim for a slightly cooler temperature (e.g., D75).
It will be a compromise between colour accuracy and screen brightness.
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post #5870 of 6576 Old 04-21-2015, 11:13 AM
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I have a question since i don't know much but in my tryings to calibrate my lg55ub950v i had trouble to maintain 2.2 gamma with d65 as standard but with d75 the tv seemed more happy in corrections, can i proceed with that?
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post #5871 of 6576 Old 04-21-2015, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueChris View Post
I have a question since i don't know much but in my tryings to calibrate my lg55ub950v i had trouble to maintain 2.2 gamma with d65 as standard but with d75 the tv seemed more happy in corrections, can i proceed with that?
The purists would probably say no. However, I would say you can quickly set the colour temperature to D75, and decide for yourself if it looks too "cool".
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post #5872 of 6576 Old 04-21-2015, 03:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slower View Post

1. Color clipping. As an addition to the RGBYCMW Luma Ramps (0-255), could a pattern like the one found on AVSHD (primaries), or GCD/MCD (primaries or secondaries) be added? So with emphasis on "near white"219-255, or 231-255.

2. Sharpness/overscan. I find the pattern on the AVSHD and MCD very useful because of the percentages shown (the one on DVE is also very nice, steps of 1%, comes in very handy working on CRT's geometry issues).
Thanks for the feedback. I've updated the current version with the AVSHD sharpness/overscan pattern as well as two RGBYCMW clipping patterns, one for near black and one for near white. Also made changing patterns a little quicker by allowing the alt and ctrl keys to escape the current image.

Also added capability of displaying an image as measurement pattern background [click "Image background" in the GDI set-up]

Current hotkeys
Code:
    "CTRL+1",           Sharpness/Overscan
    "CTRL+2",           Clipping low
    "CTRL+3",           Clipping high
    "ALT+1",            Probe Alignment
    "ALT+2",            Neutral Gradient
    "ALT+3",            Luma Ramps
    "ALT+4",            Spectrum
    "ALT+5",            Light skin tone
    "ALT+6",            Dark skin tone
    "ALT+7",            Dark detail
    "ALT+8",            Granger rainbow




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post #5873 of 6576 Old 04-21-2015, 03:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
Thanks for the feedback. I've updated the current version with the AVSHD sharpness/overscan pattern as well as two RGBYCMW clipping patterns, one for near black and one for near white. Also made changing patterns a little quicker by allowing the alt and ctrl keys to escape the current image.
No more downloading, I'm waiting for 3.3.

Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
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post #5874 of 6576 Old 04-22-2015, 04:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
Thanks for the feedback. I've updated the current version with the AVSHD sharpness/overscan pattern as well as two RGBYCMW clipping patterns, one for near black and one for near white. Also made changing patterns a little quicker by allowing the alt and ctrl keys to escape the current image.


Zoyd,

Thanks for these additions. Unfortunately I found out that the test patterns and evaluation images do not retain their 16:9 aspect ratio. They appear vertically stretched on my 16:10 screen. Not a problem with clipping patterns, but a bit annoying with overscan or geometry patterns and movie scenes.
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post #5875 of 6576 Old 04-22-2015, 05:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slower View Post
Zoyd,

Thanks for these additions. Unfortunately I found out that the test patterns and evaluation images do not retain their 16:9 aspect ratio. They appear vertically stretched on my 16:10 screen. Not a problem with clipping patterns, but a bit annoying with overscan or geometry patterns and movie scenes.
no problem, I can add a switch to prevent scaling.
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post #5876 of 6576 Old 04-23-2015, 05:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Current version has been updated to maintain aspect ratio for 16x9 pics when resized.

Note: This only accounts for resizing into whatever resolution the video card output is running at. If your display/projector does any additional scaling that changes the aspect ratio of the video output, I can't compensate for that.
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Last edited by zoyd; 04-23-2015 at 11:28 AM.
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post #5877 of 6576 Old 04-23-2015, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
Current version has been updated to maintain aspect ratio for 16x9 pics when resized.

Note: This only accounts for resizing into whatever resolution the video card output is running at. If your display/projector does any additional scaling that changes the aspect ratio of the video output, I can't compensate for that.
Zoyd,

I'm sorry to inform you that HCFR crashes when selecting a test pattern or evaluation image.
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post #5878 of 6576 Old 04-23-2015, 01:15 PM - Thread Starter
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post #5879 of 6576 Old 04-23-2015, 01:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
That's interesting, I haven't had any crashes here on a Win7 laptop display or with the TV as secondary display.
Running Vista on a 16:10 laptop. Previous versions have been stable, never had a crash. I'm assuming that it has something to do with this scaling I asked you about. Interestingly, some of the patterns do not lead to a crash: those are some of the patterns found under Additional Patters, e.g. Green Shading (stretched vertically) doesn't crash HCFR, Brightness and Contrast also don't crash. Most other do crash, as well as all the "new" patterns you added.
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post #5880 of 6576 Old 04-23-2015, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
That's interesting, I haven't had any crashes here on a Win7 laptop display or with the TV as secondary display.
I am also getting a crash, with this version only. Windows 8.1 and Windows 10 Preview both behave the same way.
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