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post #6541 of 6561 Old Yesterday, 08:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueChris View Post
My main goal was when i was doing a full sweep and later i wanted to make corrections to the numbers inside the 20pt (2pt also) and that wasnt behave in edits correctly. I mean for examble i see in HCFR that at 60IRE i need a bit of red so i go normally at 20pt grayscale menu and at 60IRE i add a bit of red but i end up changing the 80IRE.
Such a major shift is usually caused by the Contrast setting being reduced too much. Try using the Backlight control, rather than the Contrast control, to set your target luminance.
Quote:
Lets assume you do a full sweep grayscale measure and you see that at 100IRE you get 120Y.
Then you go to grayscale menu and you go to 100IRE and there you open in HCFR a new window and you do a free measure of the 100IRE only and that is higher. So there you will see for examble that Luminance is 195Y. Now in the Luminance setting in there in 20pt you put this exact number 195.
I would normally use the Backlight or Contrast control (see above), not the 20-point control, to set the luminance at 100IRE.
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post #6542 of 6561 Old Yesterday, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
Such a major shift is usually caused by the Contrast setting being reduced too much. Try using the Backlight control, rather than the Contrast control, to set your target luminance.

I would normally use the Backlight or Contrast control (see above), not the 20-point control, to set the luminance at 100IRE.
This is what i use for luminance control thx m8. My contrast is set by the scrolling bars from hcfr.
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post #6543 of 6561 Old Yesterday, 12:51 PM
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Dominic i want your expertise in something if you can help.
If you have a bit of time and download my hcfr session from my signature post you will see that im not reaching the 100% primaries of blue and green but till 85-90% on both im fine especially after i use my own 3dlut.
I had tried so far to raise the color with no result, also i tried the wide gamut with no apparent difference so I'm out of ideas.

Thx for any help.
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post #6544 of 6561 Old Yesterday, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueChris View Post
im not reaching the 100% primaries of blue and green but till 85-90% on both im fine especially after i use my own 3dlut.
I had tried so far to raise the color with no result, also i tried the wide gamut with no apparent difference so I'm out of ideas.
As a rule, if the gamut is too "small" you cannot raise it, even with 3DLUT. What does the CIE Diagram look like when you use the wide gamut setting?
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post #6545 of 6561 Old Yesterday, 09:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueChris View Post
Dominic i want your expertise in something if you can help.
If you have a bit of time and download my hcfr session from my signature post you will see that im not reaching the 100% primaries of blue and green but till 85-90% on both im fine especially after i use my own 3dlut.
I had tried so far to raise the color with no result, also i tried the wide gamut with no apparent difference so I'm out of ideas.

Thx for any help.
Those are some really good results. Even before calibration is better than my after calibration.

What is 3Dlut and how do you use it?

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post #6546 of 6561 Old Yesterday, 09:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
As a rule, if the gamut is too "small" you cannot raise it, even with 3DLUT. What does the CIE Diagram look like when you use the wide gamut setting?
It doesn't changes in the 100ire of blue and green but it messes up all the rest so i avoid it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhughy2010 View Post
Those are some really good results. Even before calibration is better than my after calibration.

What is 3Dlut and how do you use it?
3dlut is a color correction file. Its created with argyl2cms and dispalguy after a long run of reading of grayscale and color patches. You can use it with madvr like i do or you can buy a hardware device that after you create your 3dlut you put in that device and you put that device before the tv and every other device you have connects to it and the output is color corrected.
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post #6547 of 6561 Old Yesterday, 10:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueChris View Post
It doesn't changes in the 100ire of blue and green but it messes up all the rest so i avoid it.

3dlut is a color correction file. Its created with argyl2cms and dispalguy after a long run of reading of grayscale and color patches. You can use it with madvr like i do or you can buy a hardware device that after you create your 3dlut you put in that device and you put that device before the tv and every other device you have connects to it and the output is color corrected.
Ok I just read up on it a little (a bit confusing). Is DispcalGUI easy to use? Does this create a profile that can then be used on Windows?

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post #6548 of 6561 Old Yesterday, 10:25 PM
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Originally Posted by jhughy2010 View Post
Ok I just read up on it a little (a bit confusing). Is DispcalGUI easy to use? Does this create a profile that can then be used on Windows?
Its very easy don't be afraid its just needs hours if you i use to many patches. I do full sweep 11000+ patches just before bedtime and i find it ready in the morning.
No there isn't anything for windows but with reshade you can use your 3dlut in any directx application. I use it in kodi for examble.
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post #6549 of 6561 Old Yesterday, 10:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueChris View Post
Its very easy don't be afraid its just needs hours if you i use to many patches. I do full sweep 11000+ patches just before bedtime and i find it ready in the morning.
No there isn't anything for windows but with reshade you can use your 3dlut in any directx application. I use it in kodi for examble.
I'll definitely need to read more about this.

It is a color correction file that you'd run after a calibration with HCFR or before? In other words, I calibrate my display and then I run the DispcalGUI test? Then apply the file afterward? You said you use this with madVR, so does it require more processing power than an Intel iGPU?

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post #6550 of 6561 Old Yesterday, 11:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhughy2010 View Post
I'll definitely need to read more about this.

It is a color correction file that you'd run after a calibration with HCFR or before? In other words, I calibrate my display and then I run the DispcalGUI test? Then apply the file afterward? You said you use this with madVR, so does it require more processing power than an Intel iGPU?
Read this thread:
MadVR - ArgyllCMS

Before generating the 3DLUT for madVR with HCFR I manually do my grayscale then do Brightness & Contrast to the black and white clipping patterns on the AVS709 disc, set my target brightness of 35ft-L/120cm2 with the 100% white, then try to get the 100% patterns on Primary and Secondaries as good as I can get but just slightly over saturate the color so the CIE triangle is just outside the target or close enough to it (ArgyllCMS & dispcalGUI will trim it down), and then it's time to run through the madVR tutorial. Depending on how familiar or picky you are about calibrating the manual bits take maybe an hour and the madVR tutorial bits as long as you keep the recommended amount of patches takes about 3 hours depending on the speed of your meter and PC. You do need a media player that can take advantage of madVR like MPC-HC or JRiver.

To verify I load the 3DLUT into madVR, make sure madVR is set as the renderer in the media player then use the AVS709 HCFR patterns (grayscale, primary, and secondary saturation sweeps) and the color checker patterns from the Gamut Calibration Disc. It's a little overwhelming at first but once you've done it a few times it's no big deal and you shouldn't have to do it too often depending on how bad your display drifts, mine is a RP DLP and the aging lamp slowly changes the calibration so I have to do it more often than say my LCD PC monitor (though I don't use 3DLUT's for that display cuz it doesn't need them like my DLP does).

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Finally some progress on my calibration... With the input from @Dominic Chan and @BlueChris , I found out that my IRE works as follows:

(IRE X -> Affects IRE X)
5 ->?
10 ?
15 ?
20 ->25
25 ->30
30 ->35
35 ?
40 ?
45 ?
50 ?
55 ->65
60 ?
65 ->80
70 ->85
75 ->90
80 ->95
85 ->100

The ones with ? I need to test to find what the correct corresponding IRE is.
I did a quick test and after first try i did succeed in getting my IRE70++ to be near Gamma 2.2. So basically i need to continue this way and hope that it works correctly.

Last edited by higate; Today at 02:12 AM.
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post #6552 of 6561 Old Today, 12:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
Brightness setting 35 may be a little too high; it has "lifted" the black point. In addition to the usual (visual) adjustment, I find it useful to run the HCFR "Near Black Gray Scale" to confirm that there's no clipping.


This is mentioned in many guides, but there are no problems adjusting the green value. The reason for the "guideline" is that green has a much bigger effect on luminance than red and blue, but that is not really an "issue".

Thank you Dominic!

Meanwhile i have done some more measurents and ended up with backlight at 6 and brightness at 32 which gives me the following as attached.
I have also done a first "before calib" colormeasurement... green seems to be way off

If you look at the CIE graph the delta do not seem to match with what is shown in the CIE (green and red for example) can anyone tell me why or is this normal?

Best regards
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Attached Files
File Type: zip greyscale after calib test 6 backlight 6 brightness 32.zip (12.2 KB, 3 views)

Last edited by RoninF; Today at 12:31 AM. Reason: Update
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post #6553 of 6561 Old Today, 12:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by |Tch0rT| View Post
Read this thread:
MadVR - ArgyllCMS

Before generating the 3DLUT for madVR with HCFR I manually do my grayscale then do Brightness & Contrast to the black and white clipping patterns on the AVS709 disc, set my target brightness of 35ft-L/120cm2 with the 100% white, then try to get the 100% patterns on Primary and Secondaries as good as I can get but just slightly over saturate the color so the CIE triangle is just outside the target or close enough to it (ArgyllCMS & dispcalGUI will trim it down), and then it's time to run through the madVR tutorial. Depending on how familiar or picky you are about calibrating the manual bits take maybe an hour and the madVR tutorial bits as long as you keep the recommended amount of patches takes about 3 hours depending on the speed of your meter and PC. You do need a media player that can take advantage of madVR like MPC-HC or JRiver.

To verify I load the 3DLUT into madVR, make sure madVR is set as the renderer in the media player then use the AVS709 HCFR patterns (grayscale, primary, and secondary saturation sweeps) and the color checker patterns from the Gamut Calibration Disc. It's a little overwhelming at first but once you've done it a few times it's no big deal and you shouldn't have to do it too often depending on how bad your display drifts, mine is a RP DLP and the aging lamp slowly changes the calibration so I have to do it more often than say my LCD PC monitor (though I don't use 3DLUT's for that display cuz it doesn't need them like my DLP does).

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GCD - Gamut Calibration Disk
Oh wow thank you! I really need to do this. The first page on that thread is accurate with the new version of DispcalGUI?

I use MPC-HC coupled with madVR exclusively for Blu Ray playback. This should work perfect for me!

You said "then use the AVS709 HCFR patterns (grayscale, primary, and secondary saturation sweeps) and the color checker patterns from the Gamut Calibration Disc" what is this for? Is this to check to make sure the file was loaded properly? If the file is loaded properly I'll only noticed the color correction when playing back media via MPC-HC correct?

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post #6554 of 6561 Old Today, 01:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhughy2010 View Post
You said "then use the AVS709 HCFR patterns (grayscale, primary, and secondary saturation sweeps) and the color checker patterns from the Gamut Calibration Disc" what is this for? Is this to check to make sure the file was loaded properly? If the file is loaded properly I'll only noticed the color correction when playing back media via MPC-HC correct?
I forgot to mention that it's good practice to measure all those patterns before hand so you can compare the before and after. Yes after your run through those patterns with HCFR if you loaded the 3DLUT file correctly you should easily see the differences the 3DLUT made afterwards and to validate it's accuracy with the dE values and on the CIE chart. Yes you'll only get the 3DLUT color correction when using MPC-HC or any of the other madVR compatible players. madVR also has a nifty feature that'll do the split screen showing off the difference the 3DLUT makes, I forget the button combination as I have it programmed in my remote. Here's a crappy cell phone pic of mine showing off that feature (left 3DLUT disabled, right 3DLUT enabled):
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post #6555 of 6561 Old Today, 03:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhughy2010 View Post
Oh wow thank you! I really need to do this. The first page on that thread is accurate with the new version of DispcalGUI?

I use MPC-HC coupled with madVR exclusively for Blu Ray playback. This should work perfect for me!

You said "then use the AVS709 HCFR patterns (grayscale, primary, and secondary saturation sweeps) and the color checker patterns from the Gamut Calibration Disc" what is this for? Is this to check to make sure the file was loaded properly? If the file is loaded properly I'll only noticed the color correction when playing back media via MPC-HC correct?
What @jhughy2010 trying to say is that you can use the 3Dlut file in HCFR by choosing in generator settings of HCFR the MADVR and if you have correctly checked your 3dlut in madvr then whatever you measure in HCFR through madvr(in specific the madtpg) has the color corrections. Thats is what i do and you can see it in my settings post of my TV where in every screeshot i attach the 1st is the TV totally uncalibrated, the 2nd is after the HCFR calibration using the TV ISF menus and the 3nd is after i applied above all the 3DLUT.

Now in the AVS Disk that you can download it as disk or as media files you will be able to do your calibration. Its like the inbuild patterns that HCFR has but you can run it without the need of a PC.
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post #6556 of 6561 Old Today, 05:07 AM
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Edited: BlueChris answered my question.

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post #6557 of 6561 Unread Today, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoninF View Post
Meanwhile i have done some more measurents and ended up with backlight at 6 and brightness at 32 which gives me the following as attached.
I have also done a first "before calib" colormeasurement... green seems to be way off
I looked at your measurements, and for some reason the luminance values are very different between the "Grey Scale" grid and the "Primary and Secondary Colors" grid (114.645 vs 59.632 for Y, and different values for x and y as well). Did you change the TV settings between the two sets of measurements?

Quote:
If you look at the CIE graph the delta do not seem to match with what is shown in the CIE (green and red for example) can anyone tell me why or is this normal?
It's not easy the "estimate" the dE by looking at the CIE diagram; the same delta xy can correspond to very different dE. You can always use an online CIE2000 calculator to double-check.

Last edited by Dominic Chan; Today at 09:59 AM.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
I looked at your measurements, and for some reason the luminance values are very different between the Grey Scale Grid and Primary and Secondary Colors Grid (114.645 vs 59.632 for Y, and different values for x and y as well). Did you change the TV settings between the two sets of measurements?


It's not easy the "estimate" the dE by looking at the CIE diagram; the same delta xy can correspond to very different dE. You can always use an online CIE2000 calculator to double-check.
Hi Dominic,

Luminance is most likely lower as i have used the 100% 75% patterns as recommended by Ted from his disc. Probably thats why...
Settings have not changed

Are there any tips or instructions i need to follow for gamut calibration with HCFR ?
Is there a certain workflow i can /need to follow?

Greetings
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i1 Pro 2 Spectro

I can't for the life of me get the newest version of HCFR to recognize the i1 Pro 2 Spectrophotometer. Can someone please guide me on how to get this to work? I have Windows 7 on my laptop.

I can make it work for a much older version of HCFR, but not the new version(s).

Many thanks!
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post #6560 of 6561 Unread Today, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by higate View Post
I found out that my IRE works as follows:

(IRE X -> Affects IRE X)
30 ->35
35 ?
40 ?
45 ?
50 ?
55 ->65
60 ?
65 ->80

The ones with ? I need to test to find what the correct corresponding IRE is.
These are fairly significant displacement. Do you really need to lower the contrast down to 75 to avoid clipping? It may be necessary to live with minor clipping at 100IRE, to improve the "adjustability".
The values you have measure are closest to the nearest 5IRE, so you can "eyeball" where the remaining controls will affect, e.g., 45 will affect ~53, meaning you need to check both 50 and 55, when adjusting 45.
If you use HCFR's internal patterns, you can get a resolution of 2IRE.
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post #6561 of 6561 Unread Today, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by higate View Post
I found out that my IRE works as follows:

(IRE X -> Affects IRE X)
30 ->35
35 ?
40 ?
45 ?
50 ?
55 ->65
60 ?
65 ->80

The ones with ? I need to test to find what the correct corresponding IRE is.
These are fairly significant displacements. Do you really need to lower the contrast down to 75 to avoid clipping? It may be necessary to live with minor clipping at 100IRE, to improve the "adjustability".
The values you have measure are closest to the nearest 5IRE, so you can "eyeball" where the remaining controls will affect, e.g., 45 will affect ~53, meaning you need to check both 50 and 55, when adjusting 45.
If you use HCFR's internal patterns, you can get a resolution of 2IRE.
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