HCFR - Open source projector and display calibration software - Page 237 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 02-05-2016, 08:45 AM
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Hello,

I am new to TV Calibration and I have just bought the X-Rite i1 Display Pro (EODIS3) to calibrate my Panasonic ülasmas!

So...
I have downloaded and installed the latest HCFR software. I also installed the latest IProfiler software.
I've done some calibration on my Plasma and I like the results so far :-)

But... I have some questions:

Question 1:
I've read about matrices to use especially for plasma calibration. Where do I get them and which one is the 'best' to use?
I've tried one 'Panasonic plasma 1 matrix for i1D3 against i1Pro thc' which I've found somewhere here in the forum, but I don't like the results (less red)

Question 2:
When I start a new calibration - which options are to set - espescially for plasma calibration

Question 3:
I also have a LED TV (sony) - which are the differencies in calibration (settings in HCFR)?

Question 4:
Please be so kind and give me some tips :-)

Thank you for informative answers.

Greetings from Austria
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Old 02-05-2016, 08:48 AM
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Oh sorry... thats embarrassing. I wrote the first text and thought it is not here... wrote it again and... sorry
@mods : please delete the first one. thx
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Old 02-05-2016, 08:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AenimaAut View Post
Oh sorry... thats embarrassing. I wrote the first text and thought it is not here... wrote it again and... sorry
@mods : please delete the first one. thx
You can delete posts by going into "edit" them. At bottom there is a delete box and a radio button to confirm.

Calibrated settings for: Sony x930d (update: 4/8/16) | LG 65EF9500
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Old 02-05-2016, 10:41 AM
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I don't have such an edit button like in your screenshot?
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Old 02-05-2016, 06:07 PM
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After 5 posts you get that 'privilege', or something like that.
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Old 02-05-2016, 11:30 PM
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Can HCFR deliver the metadata (correct word?) to drive a TV into HDR mode? If so could the internal pattern generator be used to in an HDR mode to preform a 10pt and calibrate DCI P3?

Thanks.

Current gear: UN65JS8500 (Main TV), P65-C1(Bedroom), XBR-65X930D(Testing), M40-C2(Guestroom TV), UBD-K8500, I1D3(Using HCFR)
Retired: TH-50PX80U, M55-C2 (Returned)
Duds: UN65JS8500(blue bleed) UN60J6200 (Returned, dead pixels), M65-C1(3x Defective units, all dead pixel and yellow banding)
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Old 02-06-2016, 02:34 AM
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Ok - I hope this is the right thread for newbie questions?

What I've done so far:

I calibrated greyscale withe the XRitel i1 Pro on my Panasonic Plasma - I like the result.
For this I've not used any correction matrix (should I?), selected Plasma in the drop down menu and used windowed patterns from the AVSHD709 Disc.
--> is this right so far? or should I take APL patterns?

Now I've tried to measure and calibrate the colors.
For this I've used 100% Color windowed patterns from the disc.
--> is that right or should I use something different? Like 75% Saturation windowed?
Where are the pitfalls in this process?

thx for information
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Old 02-06-2016, 04:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AenimaAut View Post
Ok - I hope this is the right thread for newbie questions?

What I've done so far:

I calibrated greyscale withe the XRitel i1 Pro on my Panasonic Plasma - I like the result.
For this I've not used any correction matrix (should I?), selected Plasma in the drop down menu and used windowed patterns from the AVSHD709 Disc.
--> is this right so far? or should I take APL patterns?
That's correct, don't use a correction matrix unless it's made using your probe (which requires a spectrometer). Choosing the plasma display type is the best method in your case. For plasmas it's more typical to use something like a 5% window with 20% APL background, but you can experiment and see what you prefer.

Quote:
Now I've tried to measure and calibrate the colors.
For this I've used 100% Color windowed patterns from the disc.
--> is that right or should I use something different? Like 75% Saturation windowed?
Where are the pitfalls in this process?

thx for information
It's best to calibrate a plasma with 75%/75% Rec709 patterns which is difficult to do with the AVSHD disc. You can use the GCD, Mascior disc or internal pattern generator.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SnipeUout View Post
Can HCFR deliver the metadata (correct word?) to drive a TV into HDR mode? If so could the internal pattern generator be used to in an HDR mode to preform a 10pt and calibrate DCI P3?

Thanks.
I believe madVR can provide this data but I don't know if the madTPG generator is wired to provide it. Maybe @madshi can provide more details.
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Old 02-06-2016, 07:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
It's best to calibrate a plasma with 75%/75% Rec709 patterns which is difficult to do with the AVSHD disc. You can use the GCD, Mascior disc or internal pattern generator.
What about Ted's disc that only has 75%/100?
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Old 02-06-2016, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by xvfx View Post
What about Ted's disc that only has 75%/100?
Hi, Ted's Disk has the following supported chapters for measurements for HCFR users:

ChromaPure's 2/3-Point Grayscale
ChromaPure's 11-Point Grayscale
ChromaPure's 21-Point Grayscale
ChromaPure's Color Gamut (100% Saturation with 100% Intensity)
ChromaPure's Color Gamut (100% Saturation with 75% Intensity)
ChromaPure's Color Gamut (75% Saturation with 100% Intensity)
ChromaPure's Color Gamut (75% Saturation with 75% Intensity)
ChromaPure's 4-Point Saturation with 75% Intensity (25 Colors)
ChromaPure's 4-Point Saturation with 100% Intensity (25 Colors)
CalMAN's 4-Point Saturation with 75% Stimulus Level (25 Colors)
CalMAN's 4-Point Saturation with 100% Stimulus Level (25 Colors)
CalMAN's 5-Point Saturation with 75% Stimulus Level (31 Colors)
CalMAN's 5-Point Saturation with 100% Stimulus Level (31 Colors)
CalMAN's 10-Point Saturation with 75% Stimulus Level (61 Colors)
CalMAN's 10-Point Saturation with 100% Stimulus Level (61 Colors)
CalMAN's 4-Point Luminance (28 Colors)
CalMAN's 5-Point Luminance (35 Colors)
CalMAN's 10-Point Luminance (70 Colors)
6-Point Near Black (added support for 0.5% Gray patch measurement)
Dynamic Range Clipping (90/95/98/99%/100%)
CalMAN’s Color Checker Classic (24 Colors)
CalMAN’s Color Checker SG (96 Colors)
CalMAN’s Color Checker SG Fleshtones (19 Colors)
ChromaPure’s Color Checker (25 Colors)
ChromaPure’s Color Checker Skin Tones (19 Colors)

These Chapters are following the same pattern order as HCFR requests them and they accurately and match the HCFR's Color Engine Calculations:


Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
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Old 02-07-2016, 02:29 AM
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thx for information. I also found some correction matrices for plasma in the meanwhile - but they all are .mhc - how can I load them (.thc will be loaded autom.). Is renaming the file ok?

another question on the XRite i1:
Should the i1 be used in contact or distance 'mode'? If distance - how far?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
That's correct, don't use a correction matrix unless it's made using your probe (which requires a spectrometer). Choosing the plasma display type is the best method in your case. For plasmas it's more typical to use something like a 5% window with 20% APL background, but you can experiment and see what you prefer.
I've purchased Ted's Disk - which one are the right patterns - i cannot find APL patterns?

Last edited by AenimaAut; 02-07-2016 at 03:39 AM.
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Old 02-07-2016, 06:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Hi, Ted's Disk has the following supported chapters for measurements for HCFR users:

ChromaPure's 2/3-Point Grayscale
ChromaPure's 11-Point Grayscale
ChromaPure's 21-Point Grayscale
ChromaPure's Color Gamut (100% Saturation with 100% Intensity)
ChromaPure's Color Gamut (100% Saturation with 75% Intensity)
ChromaPure's Color Gamut (75% Saturation with 100% Intensity)
ChromaPure's Color Gamut (75% Saturation with 75% Intensity)
ChromaPure's 4-Point Saturation with 75% Intensity (25 Colors)
ChromaPure's 4-Point Saturation with 100% Intensity (25 Colors)
CalMAN's 4-Point Saturation with 75% Stimulus Level (25 Colors)
CalMAN's 4-Point Saturation with 100% Stimulus Level (25 Colors)
CalMAN's 5-Point Saturation with 75% Stimulus Level (31 Colors)
CalMAN's 5-Point Saturation with 100% Stimulus Level (31 Colors)
CalMAN's 10-Point Saturation with 75% Stimulus Level (61 Colors)
CalMAN's 10-Point Saturation with 100% Stimulus Level (61 Colors)
CalMAN's 4-Point Luminance (28 Colors)
CalMAN's 5-Point Luminance (35 Colors)
CalMAN's 10-Point Luminance (70 Colors)
6-Point Near Black (added support for 0.5% Gray patch measurement)
Dynamic Range Clipping (90/95/98/99%/100%)
CalMAN’s Color Checker Classic (24 Colors)
CalMAN’s Color Checker SG (96 Colors)
CalMAN’s Color Checker SG Fleshtones (19 Colors)
ChromaPure’s Color Checker (25 Colors)
ChromaPure’s Color Checker Skin Tones (19 Colors)
ChromaPure chapters are 4 point though. :/

I prefer getting more readings/fine adjustments with 5 point to find any hidden errors for an overall.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AenimaAut View Post
I've purchased Ted's Disk - which one are the right patterns - i cannot find APL patterns?
There are none. Windows only.
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Old 02-07-2016, 02:39 PM
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ChromaPure chapters are 4 point though. :/

I prefer getting more readings/fine adjustments with 5 point to find any hidden errors for an overall.
Yes, the Saturation Chapters are 4-Point for ChromaPure becasue CP 2.x is not supporting more Saturation Points.

5/10-Point Saturations are available for CalMAN or HCFR users.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
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Old 02-09-2016, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by superleo

First of... thanks for the continuation of this project.

My meters have been dormant for some time now and is time to wake them up. I did some reading and installed the the latest version to give it a try.
I have two meters and Eye-1 (Great Mcbeth) and a Spyder2. I got the Eye-1 working, but read that the firmware for the Spyder2 needs to be converted. Can someone point me on where or how to do that?


You'll need the installation disk setup.exe file or the CVSpyder.dll for the probe.

Run the program oeminst.exe in the tools directory to extract and install the .PLD file

oeminst -v infile

where infile = setup.exe or (path to installation disk setup.exe) or CVSpyder.dll
How can you do this without the setup disk? I've lost the disk and just download the datacolor software from their website.

I am 100% confused. Can someone please explain to me how I can get my Spyder 4 pro working with HCFR?

Edit: I found the disk and did this in the cmd prompt and it couldn't find cvspyder.dll but it did write spyd4cal.bin, is this correct?

Also I don't have a spyd4en program in the tools directory.

Last edited by wrathloki; 02-09-2016 at 08:38 PM.
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Old 02-10-2016, 04:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Edit: I found the disk and did this in the cmd prompt and it couldn't find cvspyder.dll but it did write spyd4cal.bin, is this correct?
yes, probe will now be available for selection when starting a new document.
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Old 02-10-2016, 04:35 AM
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Any way the DVDO avlab tpg could be supported? Afaik it's seems pretty open and straightforward to support as it uses an usb->serial interface.
It just get's a bit tiresome to use HDMI cables, doublecheck the levels are right, that all picture settings are at default and colormanagment is bypassed, extend the desktop and drag the measurement window over, set 23.976hz mode etc etc..
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Old 02-10-2016, 08:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Any way the DVDO avlab tpg could be supported?
The best way to do this would be to build it into the ArgyllCMS libraries so it would support multiple calibration software, I believe Graeme may be doing that in the near future for the Lumagen VPs. So you'd first have to convince Graeme that it's worthwhile functionality to have in ArgyllCMS, and then convince DVDO to donate a device to Graeme.
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Old 02-10-2016, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by AenimaAut View Post
I've purchased Ted's Disk - which one are the right patterns - i cannot find APL patterns?
Hi, there only 11.11% Window Patterns for all chapters of Ted's Disk at this moment.

There is no problem to use them to calibrate any display.

Interesting to read this view: http://www.tlvexp.ca/2013/05/apl-of-...lasma-tv-gods/

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5

Last edited by ConnecTEDDD; 02-10-2016 at 11:32 AM.
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Old 02-11-2016, 12:21 AM
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Hello
My I1D3 probe seems to saturate when facing the projectoreven at a distance of 4 m.
Must I use the 'Ambient' mode? Is the filter really neutral?



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Old 02-11-2016, 04:39 AM
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My I1D3 probe seems to saturate when facing the projectoreven at a distance of 4 m.
Must I use the 'Ambient' mode? Is the filter really neutral?
Yes, when facing the projector you need to use the diffuser (which automatically places the probe in "Ambient" mode.
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Old 02-11-2016, 05:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
Yes, when facing the projector you need to use the diffuser (which automatically places the probe in "Ambient" mode.
And if you want to compensate for color shifts in the diffuser and your screen, matrix profile the ambient mode to normal mode/screen illumination.
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Old 02-11-2016, 05:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
Yes, when facing the projector you need to use the diffuser (which automatically places the probe in "Ambient" mode.
Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
And if you want to compensate for color shifts in the diffuser and your screen, matrix profile the ambient mode to normal mode/screen illumination.
Good idea, I'ill do it next time

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Old 02-11-2016, 11:46 AM
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Hi, I have problems when calibrating with HCFR and I1 Display Pro with HDTV Rec.709 (75%/75%) - delta xy is very much about 0.100-0.200 average. When calibrating with HDTV Rec.709 the things are very nice, delta xy average 0.005-0.0010, in blue colour is 0.0045 only. My tv is samsung 4k 7500hu, I choose lcd white led IPS LG Samsung on Display type in hcfr, gamma is BT1886. I changed from YCbCr4:2:2 to RGB444Full but things are the same with HDTV Rec.709 (75%/75%)
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Old 02-12-2016, 01:03 AM
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Update of 3.3.9 release 1/25/16
+ Added automatically generated sync patterns for Chromecast and GDI refresh mode calibration.
Tested this today - and it works perfectly. Thanks!
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Old 02-12-2016, 03:19 AM
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Is Rec.709 75%/75% for plasma calibration or for led lcd calibration?
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Old 02-12-2016, 04:35 AM
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Originally Posted by traykov77 View Post
Is Rec.709 75%/75% for plasma calibration or for led lcd calibration?
Both. As displays are not perfect beings they tend to be nonlinear, so calibrating at 100%/100% may yield far from perfect results in other insentity and saturation levels. Calibrating is more of hitting a good compromise rather than anything else. If you are at 75/75 then you are a bit from the outer edge in both intensity and saturation and may fins a better sweet spot in the calibration.

I would recommend to run saturation sweeps in both 75 and 100% intensity to see if you have a nonlinear response. If not, or the differences are small then you could just as well use the full Rec 709 color space.

I myself mostly calibrate at full 709 color space but with 75% intensity patterns. A saturation sweep gives the same results in the 75% column as running a 75/75 rec 709 setting.
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Old 02-12-2016, 04:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by traykov77 View Post
Hi, I have problems when calibrating with HCFR and I1 Display Pro with HDTV Rec.709 (75%/75%) - delta xy is very much about 0.100-0.200 average. When calibrating with HDTV Rec.709 the things are very nice, delta xy average 0.005-0.0010, in blue colour is 0.0045 only. My tv is samsung 4k 7500hu, I choose lcd white led IPS LG Samsung on Display type in hcfr, gamma is BT1886. I changed from YCbCr4:2:2 to RGB444Full but things are the same with HDTV Rec.709 (75%/75%)
Just a quick note, if you swich between 75/75 and full Rec 709 then you must rerun primaris/secondaries runs as the luminosity targets will differ. I won't affect the deltaxy though...
Run a saturation sweep and see if you get a nonlinear reponse. In that case maybe you have turned same nobs too hard (saturation settings maybe). Try to understand what is giving you a nonlinear reponse and tone that down, maybe accepting a bit higher dE in other areas. It about finding that compromise. A too high contrast can also skew things if the display goes into clipping.
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Old 02-12-2016, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barsk View Post
Just a quick note, if you swich between 75/75 and full Rec 709 then you must rerun primaris/secondaries runs as the luminosity targets will differ. I won't affect the deltaxy though...
Run a saturation sweep and see if you get a nonlinear reponse. In that case maybe you have turned same nobs too hard (saturation settings maybe). Try to understand what is giving you a nonlinear reponse and tone that down, maybe accepting a bit higher dE in other areas. It about finding that compromise. A too high contrast can also skew things if the display goes into clipping.
I made more measuring with Rec.709 75/75 but the result is the same delta xy and delta luma is big. I changed pixel format to RGB444, changed contrast from 90 to 95 and 85 but no better result. I forgot to say that I have receiver with hdmi and blueray is connected to receiver hdmi in, tv is connected to hdmi out in the receiver.
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Old 02-12-2016, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by traykov77 View Post
I made more measuring with Rec.709 75/75 but the result is the same delta xy and delta luma is big. I changed pixel format to RGB444, changed contrast from 90 to 95 and 85 but no better result. I forgot to say that I have receiver with hdmi and blueray is connected to receiver hdmi in, tv is connected to hdmi out in the receiver.
Can you post the HCFR data file (*.chc)?
Dominic Chan is offline  
Old 02-12-2016, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
Can you post the HCFR data file (*.chc)?
Here are my color measures , colour measure1 is with Rec.709 and colour measures is with Rec709(75%/75%)
My pixel format is YCbCr422, HCFR generator - APL18%, Image Area 100%, PAtern intensity 100%, Gray scale 0-255
Attached Files
File Type: zip color measures.zip (4.5 KB, 37 views)
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