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post #7291 of 7744 Old 04-12-2016, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
3.4.0 has been updated with a fix for this problem, you can re-download from sourceforge or do an in-app update.
zoyd,

There seems to be a minor inconsistency in the initial values of Y Target. The values are generated according to the user preferences; the default black values for BT.1886 are 0.012 for black, and 100 for white. However, if the Override black option is toggled on and then off, the Y Targets are completely cleared rather than being re-assigned the default values.

Last edited by Dominic Chan; 04-12-2016 at 06:24 PM.
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post #7292 of 7744 Old 04-12-2016, 03:25 PM
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There is a colorspace option called plasma OPT meaning the control points are optimized for plasmas. It might give you slightly better overall dE response than the 75%/75% option


Ah OK got it. Its a better 75/75. Thanks!
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post #7293 of 7744 Old 04-12-2016, 11:33 PM
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Hello from Spain i am a new member in the fórum.

First of all i only can say that this post is superb. i dont know if you have people to translate the program to Spanish language, maybe i can help you if you need.

Can i make a suggestion?, i think it will be very instructive to make a basic video tutorial for people like me, i think there are lot information in the fórum that can be a good start point to know the possibilities of the software.

For example, install the program, click this option, use this pattern to make this or that thing.

I think it will be very interesting use the AVS 709 as a pattern reference in the video tutorial.

Ok, as i said i am new member in the fórum, i am happy to find this excellent fórum and hope i can contribute as much as i can
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post #7294 of 7744 Old 04-13-2016, 05:27 AM
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@zord or other experienced with HDR Displays....


So I'm working on calibrating my Vizio P75-C1 and as many know, this is an HDR capable Display. Right now I'm working on calibrating the non-HDR side and have some questions. BTW this is my first time calibrating so please be nice and speak in laymen's terms...lol.


Below is 2 CIE charts that show that my color points are beyond REC-709 color space. Should I be using a setting that will target P3 color space? I definitely don't want to reduce the colors the display is capable of displaying. I'm looking for real life accuracy and not be boxed into REC709 when my Display is capable of better.


The first charts shows the saturation lines inline with the color points of the Display and the second chart I adjusted the HUE to follow that target lines of REC709. I'm wondering which path I should be taking. My gut says I should be following the color points of the display not the targets from REC709 since my Display can do better than it.


Thanks you,


Jason
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My P75-C1 Calibration Settings.
Vizio P75-C1 (fw-1.1.14.4)(CV-1.18.60081), Pioneer Kuro 5020
Pioneer VSX-1131
XBox One
TiVo Roamio OTA, TiVo Mini, Antennas Direct DB4e w/Dipole OTA antenna

Last edited by shoman94; 04-13-2016 at 08:45 AM.
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post #7295 of 7744 Old 04-13-2016, 06:50 AM
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I'm not experienced, I'm just begining to understant calibration, but i know that your approach is totally wrong. What does better mean for you?

Rec 709 does't mean you should be inside the triangle. It is not a border. Ideally you should be on on the exact target points.probably every tv can go upper whith the green , more to the left with the blue and so on...(ever my projector can) but this doesn't make it better.
Rec 709 and every other standard is also about balance between colors.

Last edited by joker18; 04-13-2016 at 07:01 AM.
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post #7296 of 7744 Old 04-13-2016, 07:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joker18 View Post
I'm not experienced, I'm just begining to understant calibration, but i know that your approach is totally wrong. What does better mean for you?

Rec 709 does't mean you should be inside the triangle. It is not a border.
Calibration can only reduce the gamut of the display, it cannot increase the gamut. Thus, you do want to start with a setting where the intended targets are witin the triangle.
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post #7297 of 7744 Old 04-13-2016, 07:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
Calibration can only reduce the gamut of the display, it cannot increase the gamut. Thus, you do want to start with a setting where the intended targets are witin the triangle.
I think my post was confusin and probably still is but I don't know how to formulate it better. Of course you want to be as close to the target as posssible. When i said it doesn't mean you should be in the triangle/is not a border i was refering to the previous post saying outside the triangle is better and doesn't want to be boxed by it.

Last edited by joker18; 04-13-2016 at 07:44 AM.
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post #7298 of 7744 Old 04-13-2016, 07:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joker18 View Post
I think my post was confusin and probably still is but I don't know how to formulate it better. Of course you want to be as close to the target as posssible. When i said it doesn't mean you should be in the triangle/is not a border i was refering to the previous post saying outside the triangle is better and doesn't want to be boxed by it.
There are those who prefer to calibrate to a colour space with wider gamut than Rec 709, which is essentially what that previous post says.
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post #7299 of 7744 Old 04-13-2016, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
There are those who prefer to calibrate to a colour space with wider gamut than Rec 709, which is essentially what that previous post says.
Ok but the that is not calibration it is just adjustment. I'm not seeing the color i am suposed to see i'm seeing a different color., a different image, especially if the balance between colors is also lost . And this has nothing to do with reality. Is it more "real" if the brown couch becomes orange?
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Last edited by joker18; 04-13-2016 at 08:02 AM.
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post #7300 of 7744 Old 04-13-2016, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joker18 View Post
Ok but the that is not calibration it is just adjustment. I'm not seeing the color i am suposed to see i'm seeing a different color., a different image, especially if the balance between colors is also lost . And this has nothing to do with reality.
Perhaps you should read about the new colour spaces, e.g.
http://www.cnet.com/news/ultra-hd-tv...ii-the-future/
Quote:
The smallest triangle is the "Rec. 709" color space, also known as "HDTV." Your eye can see colors far beyond what's possible on today's televisions (obviously). Two commonly used examples are the red of a fire truck (below) and the purple of an eggplant (aubergine). These can't be accurately represented with Rec. 709.
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post #7301 of 7744 Old 04-13-2016, 08:15 AM
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Ok. But i still don't get how rec 709 content is better on a P3 calibrated tv. I don't have to much kniwledge on the subject but my logic doesn't let me accept that a content made with rec709 will look better or even the same if my 100% R G B Y C M are elswhere.
If it is for HDR. You can have a second profile for that.
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post #7302 of 7744 Old 04-13-2016, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
There are those who prefer to calibrate to a colour space with wider gamut than Rec 709, which is essentially what that previous post says.
Quote:
Originally Posted by joker18 View Post
Ok but the that is not calibration it is just adjustment. I'm not seeing the color i am suposed to see i'm seeing a different color., a different image, especially if the balance between colors is also lost . And this has nothing to do with reality. Is it more "real" if the brown couch becomes orange?


So I guess what I'm asking is do I target the REC709 target like I did in the 2nd graph so it curves the line to meet the points of the triangle my Display has.... or should I follow the straight line to the points of my triangle like I have in the first graph. My understanding is that you start in the center of your Color(D65) and move from there to the 3 points of the primary colors and then the secondary to where they intersect. I feel like my forcing the land in the targets is create a curved line going to the primary colors.


I edited the post above to include the 2 images. Not sure what happened there.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My P75-C1 Calibration Settings.
Vizio P75-C1 (fw-1.1.14.4)(CV-1.18.60081), Pioneer Kuro 5020
Pioneer VSX-1131
XBox One
TiVo Roamio OTA, TiVo Mini, Antennas Direct DB4e w/Dipole OTA antenna

Last edited by shoman94; 04-13-2016 at 08:48 AM.
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post #7303 of 7744 Old 04-13-2016, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joker18 View Post
Ok. But i still don't get how rec 709 content is better on a P3 calibrated tv. I don't have to much kniwledge on the subject but my logic doesn't let me accept that a content made with rec709 will look better or even the same if my 100% R G B Y C M are elswhere.
If it is for HDR. You can have a second profile for that.
I understand what you've been trying to say, and I agree with you 100%.

Henry
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Onkyo HT-RC360
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post #7304 of 7744 Old 04-13-2016, 01:07 PM - Thread Starter
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joker18 has it right, for Rec709 delivery "calibration" means all the points align with the Rec709 targets including the primaries. All currently available HD and SD content is mastered to either Rec709 or Rec601 and alignment with any other primaries (P3 for example) will generate the wrong color on your display. If that is what you prefer you should set it wherever you want and disregard the charts.

UHDTV calibration to wide color targets (P3 within a BT2020 container for example) requires that you can force your display into this mode as well as characterize how it handles metadata which specifies parameters related to peak and average luminance of the mastering display. This type of calibration would only apply to UHDTV delivered material.
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post #7305 of 7744 Old 04-13-2016, 01:10 PM
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So I guess the curve it is. So I don't see a selection for BG LED. Is there an option for that? Maybe I missed it? I see RBG LED and White LED.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My P75-C1 Calibration Settings.
Vizio P75-C1 (fw-1.1.14.4)(CV-1.18.60081), Pioneer Kuro 5020
Pioneer VSX-1131
XBox One
TiVo Roamio OTA, TiVo Mini, Antennas Direct DB4e w/Dipole OTA antenna
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post #7306 of 7744 Old 04-13-2016, 01:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Hello from Spain i am a new member in the fórum.

First of all i only can say that this post is superb. i dont know if you have people to translate the program to Spanish language, maybe i can help you if you need.
A spanish translation would be greatly appreciated, I'll pm with details.
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post #7307 of 7744 Old 04-13-2016, 01:40 PM
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So I guess the curve it is. So I don't see a selection for BG LED. Is there an option for that? Maybe I missed it? I see RBG LED and White LED.
I think this correction type is currently a CalMAN exclusive. It would definitely be nice to have updated/new ones in HCFR and DisplayCAL. Not sure how zoyd would go about integrating those.

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post #7308 of 7744 Old 04-13-2016, 01:45 PM - Thread Starter
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post #7309 of 7744 Old 04-13-2016, 01:45 PM
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I think this correction type is currently a CalMAN exclusive. It would definitely be nice to have updated/new ones in HCFR and DisplayCAL. Not sure how zoyd would go about integrating those.
Well I'm told that that is what we should be be calibrating to for the P series so I agree... Any chance @zoyd ?

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My P75-C1 Calibration Settings.
Vizio P75-C1 (fw-1.1.14.4)(CV-1.18.60081), Pioneer Kuro 5020
Pioneer VSX-1131
XBox One
TiVo Roamio OTA, TiVo Mini, Antennas Direct DB4e w/Dipole OTA antenna
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post #7310 of 7744 Old 04-13-2016, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
Send me the displays and I'll profile with my Jeti and create correction matrices
How do I do that?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My P75-C1 Calibration Settings.
Vizio P75-C1 (fw-1.1.14.4)(CV-1.18.60081), Pioneer Kuro 5020
Pioneer VSX-1131
XBox One
TiVo Roamio OTA, TiVo Mini, Antennas Direct DB4e w/Dipole OTA antenna
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post #7311 of 7744 Old 04-13-2016, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by shoman94 View Post
How do I do that?
LOL zoyd is asking you to literally send him a Vizio P, so that he can profile it for you. It was a joke
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Onkyo HT-RC360
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post #7312 of 7744 Old 04-13-2016, 02:41 PM
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LOL zoyd is asking you to literally send him a Vizio P, so that he can profile it for you. It was a joke
Hahaha... Well, he can come over

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My P75-C1 Calibration Settings.
Vizio P75-C1 (fw-1.1.14.4)(CV-1.18.60081), Pioneer Kuro 5020
Pioneer VSX-1131
XBox One
TiVo Roamio OTA, TiVo Mini, Antennas Direct DB4e w/Dipole OTA antenna
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post #7313 of 7744 Old 04-13-2016, 02:59 PM - Thread Starter
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post #7314 of 7744 Old 04-13-2016, 03:06 PM
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Anyone live next to Maine? 😁

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My P75-C1 Calibration Settings.
Vizio P75-C1 (fw-1.1.14.4)(CV-1.18.60081), Pioneer Kuro 5020
Pioneer VSX-1131
XBox One
TiVo Roamio OTA, TiVo Mini, Antennas Direct DB4e w/Dipole OTA antenna
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post #7315 of 7744 Old 04-13-2016, 03:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by shoman94 View Post
Anyone live next to Maine? 😁

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk
Proximity of location is not a requirement. To get what you need just requires a measurement of your display type (not the actual display) using a spectrometer and HCFR. That person can then generate a spectral sample file that you can use. I could also include it in the install package as a standard type available to anyone.
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post #7316 of 7744 Old 04-13-2016, 10:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
Proximity of location is not a requirement. To get what you need just requires a measurement of your display type (not the actual display) using a spectrometer and HCFR. That person can then generate a spectral sample file that you can use. I could also include it in the install package as a standard type available to anyone.
I understand, but if someone is close to me with a meter and not the TV, then they can read mine.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My P75-C1 Calibration Settings.
Vizio P75-C1 (fw-1.1.14.4)(CV-1.18.60081), Pioneer Kuro 5020
Pioneer VSX-1131
XBox One
TiVo Roamio OTA, TiVo Mini, Antennas Direct DB4e w/Dipole OTA antenna
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post #7317 of 7744 Old 04-13-2016, 11:32 PM
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A spanish translation would be greatly appreciated, I'll pm with details.
Ok.
A Little question,
When you use a bd player to upscale DVD, pal DVD in my case, the bd player converts REC 601, or EBU that is the name of pal gamut in rec 709?
As i far as i know, you need to calibrate the tv according to the source, in this case if upscale does not convert EBU in REC 709 you need two profiles, one to BD and another to see DVD.
BUT in SD?, here in Spain a very few channels are in HD, the rest are in SD, so how can i choose the correct calibration settings?.
If i took EBU settings from DVD or bd player maybe the calibration is not correct so, what i need to go in the right direction?
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I have a newbie question that someone more experienced can hopefully answer. I'm doing a 2point and 11 point gray scale on my TV currently, my Delta e is under 3 at every percent. However, on the gamma graph all my colors are at 2.4 instead of the preference of 2.2. Is there a way to get my gamma down to 2.2 without changing my gamma option on the TV itself? I appreciate the help
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post #7319 of 7744 Old 04-14-2016, 05:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diezjackdaniels View Post
Ok.
A Little question,
When you use a bd player to upscale DVD, pal DVD in my case, the bd player converts REC 601, or EBU that is the name of pal gamut in rec 709?
As i far as i know, you need to calibrate the tv according to the source, in this case if upscale does not convert EBU in REC 709 you need two profiles, one to BD and another to see DVD.
BUT in SD?, here in Spain a very few channels are in HD, the rest are in SD, so how can i choose the correct calibration settings?.
If i took EBU settings from DVD or bd player maybe the calibration is not correct so, what i need to go in the right direction?
Theoretically you are right, you should calibrate the primaries to the native source but in practice it's recommended to stick to BT.709 mainly because there is no guarantee that the proper conversions have been performed in any one particular delivery chain and the visual differences between using the two difference sets of primaries is small.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nbaglior View Post
I have a newbie question that someone more experienced can hopefully answer. I'm doing a 2point and 11 point gray scale on my TV currently, my Delta e is under 3 at every percent. However, on the gamma graph all my colors are at 2.4 instead of the preference of 2.2. Is there a way to get my gamma down to 2.2 without changing my gamma option on the TV itself? I appreciate the help
You can use the 10 point control to adjust gamma by moving all three RGB values up or down together.
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post #7320 of 7744 Old 04-14-2016, 06:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
Theoretically you are right, you should calibrate the primaries to the native source but in practice it's recommended to stick to BT.709 mainly because there is no guarantee that the proper conversions have been performed in any one particular delivery chain and the visual differences between using the two difference sets of primaries is small.

You can use the 10 point control to adjust gamma by moving all three RGB values up or down together.
Hey thanks for the response! If you don't mind me asking one more, I have a question regarding adjusting gamma. I have my TV set to gamma 2.1 and using the software it lands perfectly on 2.2 reference gamma line. Should I even bother going in and changing the TV to 2.2 and adjusting down to 2.2 on the software?
Thanks again
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