HCFR - Open source projector and display calibration software - Page 259 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #7741 of 7843 Old 07-26-2016, 02:13 PM
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When using the builtin automatc image generator, what is the recommended image area %, APL level % and Pattern Intensity % values for a Samsung 64F8500 plasma?
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post #7742 of 7843 Old 07-26-2016, 02:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Leave intensity at 100% and I use 5% pattern size with 10% APL. This should give a black level consistent with average viewing levels. Try BT.1886 set to 2.4 relative gamma and 50% offset.
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post #7743 of 7843 Old 07-26-2016, 06:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
Leave intensity at 100% and I use 5% pattern size with 10% APL. This should give a black level consistent with average viewing levels. Try BT.1886 set to 2.4 relative gamma and 50% offset.
zoyd,
Why is the Y Target for 0% white always left blank in the grid? The graphs show it as 0.

Last edited by Dominic Chan; 07-27-2016 at 12:36 AM.
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post #7744 of 7843 Old 07-28-2016, 07:13 AM
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Zoyd,


After opening some older calibration files in 3.4.2, I found some bugs not present in 3.4.1:

Selecting BT 1886, in near-black graph the target luminance goes to zero instead to actual black level for 0% white stimulus. Also noted by Dominic Chan in the above post, I now see.

Saturation shift graphs look completely different: in 3.4.1 starting with 0% shift (as a result of near-perfect grayscale) to max +/- 5% for fully saturated primaries/secondaries. On the other hand, 3.4.2 starts with +/- 3% (even for near-perfect grayscale!!) with fully saturated green and magenta going to 20-50%. The resulting dE graph of course is also different compared to the one in 3.4.1.


Sorry to bother you with this, but perhaps you missed my post #7657 about scaling ISO 12233?
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post #7745 of 7843 Old 07-29-2016, 09:28 AM
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hai all
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post #7746 of 7843 Old 07-29-2016, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
zoyd,
Why is the Y Target for 0% white always left blank in the grid? The graphs show it as 0.
zoyd,

Just noticed a not entirely new problem with 3.4.1. In the GDI mode, the test patterns do not cover the entire screen on the 2nd display. In the past, my workaround was to open the "Test Colors" window and drag it to the 2nd display. This still works for 3.4.1, but it reverts to the partial screen for every run, meaning I have to reopen the Test Colors window before each run.
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post #7747 of 7843 Old 07-30-2016, 04:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
You can keep the card gamma tables active by unchecking "disable video card lut " in the pattern generator setup
That's awesome, thank you so much for this info!
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post #7748 of 7843 Old 07-30-2016, 06:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slower View Post
Zoyd,


Saturation shift graphs look completely different: in 3.4.1 starting with 0% shift (as a result of near-perfect grayscale) to max +/- 5% for fully saturated primaries/secondaries. On the other hand, 3.4.2 starts with +/- 3% (even for near-perfect grayscale!!) with fully saturated green and magenta going to 20-50%. The resulting dE graph of course is also different compared to the one in 3.4.1.
Upload the chc file where you are seeing a difference between 3.4.1 and 3.4.2 sat shift graphs so I can take a look at it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
zoyd,

Just noticed a not entirely new problem with 3.4.1. In the GDI mode, the test patterns do not cover the entire screen on the 2nd display. In the past, my workaround was to open the "Test Colors" window and drag it to the 2nd display. This still works for 3.4.1, but it reverts to the partial screen for every run, meaning I have to reopen the Test Colors window before each run.
Do you mean 3.4.2? What is the resolution of the screen you are trying to calibrate and what is the resolution of the screen you are running the program on? The pattern size HCFR produces should be exactly what windows tells it is the size of the screen. Can you tell if the pattern produced on the extended screen is either 1. The same resolution as the primary screen? or 2. Trying to maintain a 16x9 aspect ratio on a non-16x9 screen?
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post #7749 of 7843 Old 07-30-2016, 07:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
Do you mean 3.4.2? What is the resolution of the screen you are trying to calibrate and what is the resolution of the screen you are running the program on?
Yes, I meant 3.4.2. The resolution is 1920x1080 for the projector, as well as the laptop itself.
Quote:
The pattern size HCFR produces should be exactly what windows tells it is the size of the screen.
It does that, but only after I display the Test Colors windows.
Quote:
Can you tell if the pattern produced on the extended screen is either 1. The same resolution as the primary screen? or 2. Trying to maintain a 16x9 aspect ratio on a non-16x9 screen?
I previously used a lower resolution laptop and thought that was the cause, but apparently not, as the same problem occurs with the new laptop which has the same resolution as the projector.

Last edited by Dominic Chan; 07-30-2016 at 07:45 AM.
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post #7750 of 7843 Old 07-30-2016, 07:42 AM - Thread Starter
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post #7751 of 7843 Old 07-30-2016, 07:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
What is the resolution?
1080p (1920x1080)
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post #7752 of 7843 Old 07-30-2016, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
zoyd,
Why is the Y Target for 0% white always left blank in the grid? The graphs show it as 0.
Also, in 3.4.2, the dE is always 0 at 100% white when using simulated sensor, unlike in previous versions.
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post #7753 of 7843 Old 07-30-2016, 08:58 AM - Thread Starter
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hmmm...I use that resolution set-up as well without issue. Is the aspect ratio maintained? Can you post a picture? Anyone else see similar?
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post #7754 of 7843 Old 07-30-2016, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
Upload the chc file where you are seeing a difference between 3.4.1 and 3.4.2 sat shift graphs so I can take a look at it.
Here it is. REC 709, BT1886, CalmanSG Colorchecker.

Thanks for having a look.
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File Type: zip PostCalibration4.zip (22.6 KB, 22 views)
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post #7755 of 7843 Old 07-30-2016, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
hmmm...I use that resolution set-up as well without issue. Is the aspect ratio maintained? Can you post a picture? Anyone else see similar?
Here's a picture. I use a pattern size of 50%. The pattern (including background) seems to have the same aspect ratio, but only occupies the upper left portion of the screen.
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Name:	20160730_150618_HDR.jpg
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Last edited by Dominic Chan; 07-30-2016 at 12:32 PM.
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post #7756 of 7843 Old 07-30-2016, 01:44 PM - Thread Starter
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post #7757 of 7843 Old 07-30-2016, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
Is the native resolution of that display 1920x1080? If the display is identified as 1920x1080 that's what the image size will be.
The secondary display is a JVC DLA-x30 Projector, 1080p with no e-Shift.
I connected another display, a 2560x1080 ultra-wide monitor. It shows a similar problem but with the pattern height larger than the physical display, as if it's being scaled to fill the 2560 width (see picture attached).
In both cases, if I first drag the Test Colors window to the secondary display, the pattern will then display properly.
What's different in 3.4.2 is that I have to repeat this every time I display a pattern, whereas in previous versions I only have to do it once per session.
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Last edited by Dominic Chan; 07-30-2016 at 05:11 PM.
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post #7758 of 7843 Old 07-31-2016, 02:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
When using the ST2084 transfer function the following calibration sequences will assume a reference white of 98.7835 cd/m^2 (closest 8-bit value to 100 cd/m^2)
  • Primaries and Secondaries
  • Saturation sweeps
  • Color checker sequences: GCD/MCD and CalMAN classic, Pantone, CalMAN, and ChromaPure skin tones, CalMAN SG.
Is this only the case if there is no white reference measured for primaries and secondaries? If there is a white reference is this used for all the above mentioned sequences?
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post #7759 of 7843 Old 07-31-2016, 04:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carneb View Post
Is this only the case if there is no white reference measured for primaries and secondaries? If there is a white reference is this used for all the above mentioned sequences?
The primaries/secondaries white is used as the user measured white reference for the color checker series. If that isn't available the grayscale white is used. For HDR10 targets, 50% stimulus (98.7835 cd/m^2) white is assumed in order to calculate the target reference. When ST.2084 is the selected transfer function the internal generator will automatically run the primaries/secondaries sweep at 50% stimulus.
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post #7760 of 7843 Old 07-31-2016, 12:50 PM
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I just attempted to calibrate my TV for the first time with a i1display pro on a Vizio M602i-B3. I got everything looking pretty good, I think, except for the gamma. Is there anything I can do about the gamma curve?








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post #7761 of 7843 Old 07-31-2016, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
The primaries/secondaries white is used as the user measured white reference for the color checker series. If that isn't available the grayscale white is used. For HDR10 targets, 50% stimulus (98.7835 cd/m^2) white is assumed in order to calculate the target reference. When ST.2084 is the selected transfer function the internal generator will automatically run the primaries/secondaries sweep at 50% stimulus.
The reason I ask is that I'm getting some dEs of around 4 for the grey and white windows in the MCD Classic colorchecker and some of the colour sweep 0% saturation measurements from Mascior's HDR tests. If the target was 98 nits then that could be the reason. I did measure a white reference for the primaries/secondaries so the 98 nit reference is not the reason
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post #7762 of 7843 Old 07-31-2016, 02:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Upload your .chc so I can see what you are talking about, if you don't measure 98.7835 cd/m^2 for 50% white then you will have errors.
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post #7763 of 7843 Old 07-31-2016, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
Leave intensity at 100% and I use 5% pattern size with 10% APL. This should give a black level consistent with average viewing levels. Try BT.1886 set to 2.4 relative gamma and 50% offset.
You have changed these recommendations periodically (see, someone really IS paying attention ). Is there a method to the madness?
It's been a while since I've checked my set, so I'm eager to see how close it is with these parameters.
Michael

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post #7764 of 7843 Old 07-31-2016, 05:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
You have changed these recommendations periodically (see, someone really IS paying attention ). Is there a method to the madness?
It's been a while since I've checked my set, so I'm eager to see how close it is with these parameters.
Michael
I ended up using these because the black level corresponded to what it is during typical movie scenes. The overall color reproduction will not vary significantly whatever pattern geometry you use as long as it's under 15% area, and APL level is in the 5-20% range.
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post #7765 of 7843 Old 07-31-2016, 08:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradthebold88 View Post
I just attempted to calibrate my TV for the first time with a i1display pro on a Vizio M602i-B3. I got everything looking pretty good, I think, except for the gamma. Is there anything I can do about the gamma curve?
If your TV has the 10- or 20-point grey scale adjustments, you can use those to adjust the gamma. You should be able to find the recent discussions in this thread.

Also, if you choose a Gray Scale dE handling that includes gamma, you will automatically get the correct gamma when you adjust the 10-point grey scale; i.e., in addition to ensuring that each step is neutral in colour, the same adjustments also ensure that the luminance is correct for the target gamma.

Last edited by Dominic Chan; 07-31-2016 at 10:08 PM.
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post #7766 of 7843 Old 08-01-2016, 12:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
Upload your .chc so I can see what you are talking about, if you don't measure 98.7835 cd/m^2 for 50% white then you will have errors.
I've attached my chc file. My Greyscale 50% is around 92 nits (the target 94) and the white window for primaries/secondaries is 90 nits.
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post #7767 of 7843 Old 08-01-2016, 07:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slower View Post
Zoyd,


After opening some older calibration files in 3.4.2, I found some bugs not present in 3.4.1:

Selecting BT 1886, in near-black graph the target luminance goes to zero instead to actual black level for 0% white stimulus. Also noted by Dominic Chan in the above post, I now see.
Luminance and near-black 0% issue has been confirmed and fixed.

Quote:
Saturation shift graphs look completely different: in 3.4.1 starting with 0% shift (as a result of near-perfect grayscale) to max +/- 5% for fully saturated primaries/secondaries. On the other hand, 3.4.2 starts with +/- 3% (even for near-perfect grayscale!!) with fully saturated green and magenta going to 20-50%. The resulting dE graph of course is also different compared to the one in 3.4.1.
The satshift graph issue has been confirmed and will be fixed in next update.

Quote:
Sorry to bother you with this, but perhaps you missed my post #7657 about scaling ISO 12233?
fixed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
Here's a picture. I use a pattern size of 50%. The pattern (including background) seems to have the same aspect ratio, but only occupies the upper left portion of the screen.
I can't reproduce this on any resolution or display combo that I can access so it's not a generic problem. Will have to wait for more reports to see if some consistent reason can be discovered.


Quote:
Originally Posted by carneb View Post
I've attached my chc file. My Greyscale 50% is around 92 nits (the target 94) and the white window for primaries/secondaries is 90 nits.
Ok, so for your colorchecker measurements, some of the error you are seeing is because your display is not hitting it's PQ targets (98.735 nits @white ). PQ is an absolute scale and the targets are being calculated to that absolute scale, not your measured white.
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post #7768 of 7843 Old 08-01-2016, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
Ok, so for your colorchecker measurements, some of the error you are seeing is because your display is not hitting it's PQ targets (98.735 nits @white ). PQ is an absolute scale and the targets are being calculated to that absolute scale, not your measured white.
Hi Zoyd. I just checked with Ryan about the levels in his test patterns and this was his response:

Quote:
All of my 50% white/gray patches utilized in grayscale, color primaries/secondaries, and Colorchecker measurements are based on 94.4 nits or 126,126,126 (triplets shown in 8bit). These triplets also match what HCFR and Calman are looking for within there HDR10 workflows.
Is this what you expected?
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post #7769 of 7843 Old 08-01-2016, 11:09 PM
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Spyder 3 is not recognized!

My Spyder 3 TV worked well five years ago with my old WinXP system on my old computer with HCFR. Now I have a new PC with Windows 7, downloaded the new HCFR version and the Spyder 3 TV is in the device manager as "Spyder3 Argyll".

Problem is, HCFR won't let me use it. It only gives me the option to simulate a sensor. Am I too dumb? What am I missing?

Prof. Dr. Turrican M.D.
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post #7770 of 7843 Old 08-02-2016, 12:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Make73 View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by jrussell88

Can you suggest where I'm going wrong?


Unpack this file and copy "Spyder3.dll" to HCFR folder, someone wrote that got it working. However it may still give some error notes but it´s working.
Unfortunately the zip-file is corrupt.

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