HCFR - Open source projector and display calibration software - Page 265 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 920Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #7921 of 8928 Old 10-28-2016, 07:42 PM
Member
 
Scott_Arm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 29
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Here is my current calibration result. Could do some more tweaking to the 10 point white balance. I did the near black test. Can't make much sense of it. Looks like garbage to me. Attached my latest results. Don't feel like messing it with it more right now.
Attached Files
File Type: zip movie.zip (7.0 KB, 22 views)
Scott_Arm is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #7922 of 8928 Old 10-28-2016, 08:44 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Mississauga, ON, Canada
Posts: 2,215
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1334 Post(s)
Liked: 342
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott_Arm View Post
Here is my current calibration result. Could do some more tweaking to the 10 point white balance. I did the near black test. Can't make much sense of it. Looks like garbage to me. Attached my latest results. Don't feel like messing it with it more right now.
The low end is in pretty bad shape. If you turn on the R/G/B curves, you will see this (blue is not responding to changes in input; see attached). Change the measurements to 10 points so that you can see the entire range of 0-10%.

What are your settings for R/G/B Bias and 10%?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Near_Black.png
Views:	69
Size:	18.3 KB
ID:	1740817  
Dominic Chan is online now  
post #7923 of 8928 Old 10-28-2016, 09:44 PM
Member
 
Scott_Arm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 29
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
The low end is in pretty bad shape. If you turn on the R/G/B curves, you will see this (blue is not responding to changes in input; see attached). Change the measurements to 10 points so that you can see the entire range of 0-10%.

What are your settings for R/G/B Bias and 10%?
I looked at those. Are those valid measurements?

Right now my R/G/B offset/bias values are: 26/25/11

This is a Samsung tv (0-50, default 25)

For 10 point white balance, I have 10% set to 0/0/0. I had +4 blue at one point, but then all of the dark areas of the screen appeared to be glowing blue, even though the RGB levels were showing as balanced. That's why I started to think the 10% measurement wasn't valid. If those near black measurements are actually correct, then do I start by changing my bias setting or the 10 pt? I guess it becomes trial and error, and see which one gets the near black values to start responding.

Unfortunately my tv doesn't have 20 pt controls.
Scott_Arm is offline  
 
post #7924 of 8928 Old 10-29-2016, 05:47 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Mississauga, ON, Canada
Posts: 2,215
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1334 Post(s)
Liked: 342
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott_Arm View Post
Right now my R/G/B offset/bias values are: 26/25/11
What prompted you to reduce the Blue Bias to 11? It looks like blue is totally clipped.

Quote:
For 10 point white balance, I have 10% set to 0/0/0. I had +4 blue at one point, but then all of the dark areas of the screen appeared to be glowing blue, even though the RGB levels were showing as balanced.
If the Blue deficiency is caused by the low Bias setting but you use 10% to "compensate", it will indeed cause Blue to over shoot below 10% (you can confirm by extending the near black grey scale to 10, or even 20 points).

Quote:
That's why I started to think the 10% measurement wasn't valid. If those near black measurements are actually correct, then do I start by changing my bias setting or the 10 pt? I guess it becomes trial and error, and see which one gets the near black values to start responding.
I would put the Blue bias back to 25, run the Near Black Grey Scale, and adjust the Bias and 10% controls according to the shape of the blue curve in that range.
Quote:
Unfortunately my tv doesn't have 20 pt controls.
Even if you don't have 20-pt control, it's still useful to set HCFR to run 20 points, so that you know what the TV is doing in those in-between points.
The same applies to the Near Black region - you don't have direct control over the individual points, but the measurement results allow you to determine the best settings for the Bias and 10% controls.
As a "rule", I don't normally make drastic adjustments to the Bias controls, for two reasons:
- At 0% the LCD panels are attempting to block all the light from coming through, but they may have inherent limitations that result in unequal residual R/G/B components cannot be "adjusted out"
- The meter may not have sufficient accuracy for the individual R/G/B readings at 0%.

Last edited by Dominic Chan; 10-29-2016 at 06:16 AM.
Dominic Chan is online now  
post #7925 of 8928 Old 10-29-2016, 08:25 AM
Member
 
Scott_Arm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 29
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
What prompted you to reduce the Blue Bias to 11? It looks like blue is totally clipped.

I turned the blue bias down because when I was balancing the greyscale the blue percentage was at around 130% across the board. Doing 2pt white balance I adjusted the gain at 80% and then I adjusted the bias at 30%. Went back and forth until they were balanced. Then I went through with the 10pt.


Edit: I just reset everything and attached the results for my display. Samsung in movie mode, warm 2 colour temperature. Contrast and brightness are set.
Attached Files
File Type: zip Uncalibrated_Samsung_movie_warm2.zip (1.8 KB, 18 views)

Last edited by Scott_Arm; 10-29-2016 at 09:04 AM.
Scott_Arm is offline  
post #7926 of 8928 Old 10-29-2016, 02:03 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Mississauga, ON, Canada
Posts: 2,215
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1334 Post(s)
Liked: 342
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott_Arm View Post
I turned the blue bias down because when I was balancing the greyscale the blue percentage was at around 130% across the board. Doing 2pt white balance I adjusted the gain at 80% and then I adjusted the bias at 30%. Went back and forth until they were balanced. Then I went through with the 10pt.
The curves look fairly linear from 3% up. I believe if you adjust only the Gain and not the Bias, you should get a pretty good grey scale. Try it and see how it looks. Then you can make minor adjustments of the Bias based on the Near Black plots, and fine-tune using the 10 pt if necessary.
Dominic Chan is online now  
post #7927 of 8928 Old 10-29-2016, 02:17 PM
Member
 
Scott_Arm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 29
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
The curves look fairly linear from 3% up. I believe if you adjust only the Gain and not the Bias, you should get a pretty good grey scale. Try it and see how it looks. Then you can make minor adjustments of the Bias based on the Near Black plots, and fine-tune using the 10 pt if necessary.
Ok, I'll try it out. But I'm pretty sure if I don't touch the blue offset, I'll have to turn my blue gain down to 1 to get anything less than 110% blue at any IRE.
Scott_Arm is offline  
post #7928 of 8928 Old 10-29-2016, 03:52 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
aaranddeeman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Lover's State
Posts: 3,771
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1652 Post(s)
Liked: 577
Sorry if this exists somewhere in this huge thread, but I found the information is bit spread around.
To start on a calibration, are these the basic steps???
1. Have i1 Display Pro
2. Install HCFR Software
3. Grab a patterns disk (AVSHD709)
4. Run HCFR software (and as there is no guide, use the one used by Chromapure as reference?)
aaranddeeman is offline  
post #7929 of 8928 Old 10-29-2016, 04:38 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Mississauga, ON, Canada
Posts: 2,215
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1334 Post(s)
Liked: 342
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott_Arm View Post
Ok, I'll try it out. But I'm pretty sure if I don't touch the blue offset, I'll have to turn my blue gain down to 1 to get anything less than 110% blue at any IRE.
Are you sure that's with the Warm 2 Preset? I don't have your TV, but that wouldn't be the case for most TVs. The offset should have minimal effect at high signal levels.

In any case, I'd be interested to see your results with only Gain adjusted to give equal RGB at 100%.
Dominic Chan is online now  
post #7930 of 8928 Old 10-29-2016, 04:41 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Mississauga, ON, Canada
Posts: 2,215
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1334 Post(s)
Liked: 342
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaranddeeman View Post
Sorry if this exists somewhere in this huge thread, but I found the information is bit spread around.
To start on a calibration, are these the basic steps???
You don't really need the pattern disc. HCFR has its own built-in pattern which is much easier to use. However, if your movies are mostly on disc; you may want to use the pattern disc to double-check the results.

Last edited by Dominic Chan; 10-29-2016 at 06:08 PM.
Dominic Chan is online now  
post #7931 of 8928 Old 10-29-2016, 04:44 PM
Member
 
Scott_Arm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 29
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
Are you sure that's with the Warm 2 Preset? I don't have your TV, but that wouldn't be the case for most TVs. The offset should have minimal effect at high signal levels.

In any case, I'd be interested to see your results with only Gain adjusted to give equal RGB at 100%.
It is the Warm2 preset. Something weird with this tv, for sure.

**edit Don't mess with the service menu**


I re-calibrated without adjusting the offsets, as you suggested. I think it seems better. My gamma definitely isn't flat. Maybe that's not possible with an LCD like this. Don't know.
Attached Files
File Type: zip movie (2).zip (6.7 KB, 15 views)

Last edited by Scott_Arm; 11-03-2016 at 07:06 AM.
Scott_Arm is offline  
post #7932 of 8928 Old 10-29-2016, 05:28 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Mississauga, ON, Canada
Posts: 2,215
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1334 Post(s)
Liked: 342
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott_Arm View Post
I re-calibrated without adjusting the offsets, as you suggested. I think it seems better, so maybe changes are unnecessary.
The results are more-or-less what I expected, i.e., adjusting gain alone (without touching the bias) should give you a pretty good grey scale throughout the range. With a dE of 0.7 avg and 1.4 max, there shouldn't be any visible colour cast.
What is the Blue gain setting you're using now? Previously you said you brought it all the way down to 1 (from 25) and still had 110% blue.

Quote:
My gamma definitely isn't flat. Maybe that's not possible with an LCD like this. Don't know.
Your gamma curve is not flat but many people actually prefer that (similar to BT.1886). The gamma is 2.35 at the high end, which gives you good contrast, and around 2 at the low end, which gives you better shadow details than a straight gamma 2.4.
However, if you prefer a flat gamma you can get it using the 10-pt control.

Last edited by Dominic Chan; 10-29-2016 at 06:10 PM.
Dominic Chan is online now  
post #7933 of 8928 Old 10-29-2016, 05:34 PM
Member
 
Scott_Arm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 29
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
The results are more-or-less what I expected, i.e., adjusting gain alone should give you a pretty good grey scale throughout the range. Your average dE is 0.7, there should be any visible colour cast.
What is the Blue gain setting you're using now? Previously you said you brought it all the way down to 1 (from 25) and still had 110% blue.


Your gamma curve is not flat but many people actually prefer that (similar to BT.1886). The gamma is 2.35 at the high end, which gives you good contrast, and around 2 at the low end, which gives you better shadow details than a straight gamma 2.4.
However, if you prefer a flat gamma you can get it using the 10-pt control.
Samsung UN40ES6100
Movie
Warm2
Contrast 100
Brightness 45
Gamma -2
Color Space Auto
White Balance
R-off 25
G-off 25
B-off 25
R-gain 18
G-gain 25
B-gain 1

10p white balance from 1 to 10: R/G/B
+1/0/-2
+2/0/-4
+2/0/-5
+2/+1/-4
+1/+1/-3
0/0/-1
0/0/-1
0/0/-1
0/0/-1
0/0/-1

I think I have the bluest tv ever.
Scott_Arm is offline  
post #7934 of 8928 Old 10-29-2016, 06:07 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Mississauga, ON, Canada
Posts: 2,215
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1334 Post(s)
Liked: 342
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott_Arm View Post
I think I have the bluest tv ever.
No, I cannot get one of my TVs down to D65 even with blue turned to minimum and Warm 2 preset.
The thing is that many people actually prefer a bluish white, and consider D65 "yellowish". There are some regions in the world that use a much bluer white point; e.g., Japan NTSC uses D93 instead of D65.

Last edited by Dominic Chan; 10-31-2016 at 04:55 AM.
Dominic Chan is online now  
post #7935 of 8928 Old 10-29-2016, 06:51 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
aaranddeeman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Lover's State
Posts: 3,771
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1652 Post(s)
Liked: 577
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
You don't really need the pattern disc. HCFR has its own built-in pattern which is much easier to use. However, if your movies are mostly on disc; you may want to use the pattern disc to double-check the results.
Thanks.
So the ChromaPure guide is the one to be followed for reference or is there HCFR guide somewhere?
aaranddeeman is offline  
post #7936 of 8928 Old 10-29-2016, 08:39 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Mississauga, ON, Canada
Posts: 2,215
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1334 Post(s)
Liked: 342
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaranddeeman View Post
So the ChromaPure guide is the one to be followed for reference or is there HCFR guide somewhere?
There is a guide on HCFR:
http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457
It's fairly old but the basic principles remain the same.
Dominic Chan is online now  
post #7937 of 8928 Old 10-30-2016, 06:31 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
aaranddeeman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Lover's State
Posts: 3,771
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1652 Post(s)
Liked: 577
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
There is a guide on HCFR:
http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457
It's fairly old but the basic principles remain the same.
Thank you.
The Heads-up line in the first post and link made me think one should use the newer guide.
aaranddeeman is offline  
post #7938 of 8928 Old 10-30-2016, 06:57 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Mississauga, ON, Canada
Posts: 2,215
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1334 Post(s)
Liked: 342
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaranddeeman View Post
Thank you.
The Heads-up line in the first post and link made me think one should use the newer guide.
Yes, that is the intent - they want you to use the newer guide and buy ChromaPure
If you're using HCFR, I would still use the old guide as the ChromaPure user interface is completely different even though the basic principles are the same.

Last edited by Dominic Chan; 10-30-2016 at 07:01 AM.
Dominic Chan is online now  
post #7939 of 8928 Old 10-30-2016, 07:13 AM
Member
 
JGrana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Rochester NY
Posts: 84
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 52 Post(s)
Liked: 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
Yes, that is the intent - they want you to use the newer guide and buy ChromaPure
If you're using HCFR, I would still use the old guide as the ChromaPure user interface is completely different even though the basic principles are the same.
Ironic I am actually referring to the old guide at the moment as well! Its a chilly rainy Sunday - time to re-calibrate ;-)
Like Dominic said, the new guide is a good read, but for us weekend/hobbyist calibrators the older guide walks you through all the necessary steps for a reasonably good calibration.
Highly recommended - be sure too plan twice as much time as you think!

Someday i am going to splurge and get a professional to calibrate my TV (as I watch him!!!)
JGrana is offline  
post #7940 of 8928 Old 10-30-2016, 11:19 AM
Member
 
Scott_Arm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 29
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
Yes, that is the intent - they want you to use the newer guide and buy ChromaPure
If you're using HCFR, I would still use the old guide as the ChromaPure user interface is completely different even though the basic principles are the same.
The only thing I'll add to this is following the old guide is what lead me to adjusting my rbg low controls (rgb offset), which lead to my black level issues. I suppose the guide was not imagining a tv that required such extreme adjustments. For me, adjusting bias only at 80% and then using the 10 pt control worked much much better. The guide was great in explaining how to use the software and how to read the graphs.

Another thing to add is that I was originally measuring using Window patterns because that's what the guide suggested, but I guess field patterns are better for LCDs. I honestly don't think it made a significant difference in my measurements, but it's something to keep in mind.
Scott_Arm is offline  
post #7941 of 8928 Old 10-30-2016, 12:02 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Mississauga, ON, Canada
Posts: 2,215
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1334 Post(s)
Liked: 342
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott_Arm View Post
The only thing I'll add to this is following the old guide is what lead me to adjusting my rbg low controls (rgb offset), which lead to my black level issues. I suppose the guide was not imagining a tv that required such extreme adjustments. For me, adjusting bias only at 80% and then using the 10 pt control worked much much better. The guide was great in explaining how to use the software and how to read the graphs.
The new guide is not any different in this respect.

Quote:
Another thing to add is that I was originally measuring using Window patterns because that's what the guide suggested, but I guess field patterns are better for LCDs. I honestly don't think it made a significant difference in my measurements, but it's something to keep in mind.
It's "safer" to use window patterns; i.e., it never "hurts" even if a TV does not require this.
Dominic Chan is online now  
post #7942 of 8928 Old 11-02-2016, 06:39 AM
Member
 
Scott_Arm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 29
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Liked: 0
I was thinking of seeing if I could tweak my display to more closely match BT. 1886, but I have a few questions about how to do this in HCFR.

I noticed that on the gamma graph, it was drawing a gamma curve for BT 1886, but sometimes it would disappear and draw a flat reference line of some gamma instead. Is it best to adjust from the luminance graph anyway?

I took a look at the options, and it seems like you can specify a gamma at 50% IRE and an offset. Is that something that should be set? It seems like BT. 1886 is relative to your black level, and does not assume a black level of zero luminance.

My approach to making the changes was going to be to measure my greyscale and then use 10pt white balance to adjust my luminance by adjusting green to the correct luminance and then balancing red and blue. I'd start at the high end and work down. The thing I'm not quite clear about is how to anchor anything, because if I change 100% grey (white) my reference point will change. The same appears to be true for black.
Scott_Arm is offline  
post #7943 of 8928 Old 11-02-2016, 07:11 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Does anybody know how to use a colour card/Passport Checkers to create a correction matrix for a meter in HCFR? I got a used i1 off ebay and I'm trying to correct for any skew.

Card has a certified dE of 0.5 or less so I'm happy to call it D65 for this application.
MarkApp is offline  
post #7944 of 8928 Old 11-02-2016, 08:37 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Mississauga, ON, Canada
Posts: 2,215
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1334 Post(s)
Liked: 342
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott_Arm View Post
I noticed that on the gamma graph, it was drawing a gamma curve for BT 1886, but sometimes it would disappear and draw a flat reference line of some gamma instead. Is it best to adjust from the luminance graph anyway?
If the black point is at 0 cd/m^2, then BT.1886 will be identical to a flat gamma 2.4. That's how BT.1886 is defined.

Quote:
My approach to making the changes was going to be to measure my greyscale and then use 10pt white balance to adjust my luminance by adjusting green to the correct luminance and then balancing red and blue. I'd start at the high end and work down. The thing I'm not quite clear about is how to anchor anything, because if I change 100% grey (white) my reference point will change. The same appears to be true for black.
If you measure 100% (white) and then 0% (black), then the curve will be anchored.
Dominic Chan is online now  
post #7945 of 8928 Old 11-02-2016, 08:41 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Mississauga, ON, Canada
Posts: 2,215
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1334 Post(s)
Liked: 342
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkApp View Post
Does anybody know how to use a colour card/Passport Checkers to create a correction matrix for a meter in HCFR? I got a used i1 off ebay and I'm trying to correct for any skew.

Card has a certified dE of 0.5 or less so I'm happy to call it D65 for this application.
To create a correction matrix you will need a reference meter; the correction matrix "aligns" your meter readings with those from the reference meter.

You can't create the correction matrix with a colour checker alone, as there are 2 "unknowns" - the light source, and the meter.
bobof likes this.

Last edited by Dominic Chan; 11-02-2016 at 09:36 AM.
Dominic Chan is online now  
post #7946 of 8928 Old 11-02-2016, 08:45 AM
Member
 
Scott_Arm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 29
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
If the black point is at 0 cd/m^2, then BT.1886 will be identical to a flat gamma 2.4. That's how BT.1886 is defined.


If you measure 100% (white) and then 0% (black), then the curve will be anchored.
Ok, that would explain it. My tv switches off when it displays black. The reference curve is probably disappearing when I take my black measurement. I'll measure with one of the apl patterns so the backlight stays on to get a representative black.
Scott_Arm is offline  
post #7947 of 8928 Old 11-02-2016, 07:58 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
aaranddeeman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Lover's State
Posts: 3,771
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1652 Post(s)
Liked: 577
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott_Arm View Post
Ok, that would explain it. My tv switches off when it displays black. The reference curve is probably disappearing when I take my black measurement. I'll measure with one of the apl patterns so the backlight stays on to get a representative black.
What a "smart" TV..
aaranddeeman is offline  
post #7948 of 8928 Old 11-03-2016, 12:57 AM
Newbie
 
rjpreston's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
HCFR - Open source projector and display calibration software

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott_Arm View Post
It is the Warm2 preset. Something weird with this tv, for sure. I purchased it just before I bought my xbox. It was actually massively on sale. When I bought it the tv was hanging on the wall in the store. It was from a local home theater store, not a big box place. Out of curiosity, before doing this calibration, I looked in the service menu to see how the panel is set.



sub-bright 128

R-off 128

G-off 128

B-off 128

sub-contrast 135

R-gain 130

G-gain 128

B-gain 165
^^^^^^^^^^^
Is this the problem? Blue gain at 165 in service menu whereas all other values at or around 128. Could some one have messed with that setting before you bought the TV?

Last edited by rjpreston; 11-03-2016 at 01:01 AM.
rjpreston is offline  
post #7949 of 8928 Old 11-03-2016, 05:13 AM
Member
 
Quad5Ny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 194
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 45 Post(s)
Liked: 34
@zoyd I have a few bugs to report, when you're in the mood to code can you please take a look at them.

  • Floating Pattern Window displays the first color twice on automatic measures - this completely breaks the floating window pattern generator
  • Unique free measure or Continuous measure brings up the last generator pattern (it shouldn't IMO)
  • "Display Triplets" seems to do nothing
  • I don't remember if this is still true but in the past the "Target Screen" didn't always work correctly. It would blank out the other screen even if that option was not checked
  • "Display mode" seems to randomly switch back to "Floating Window" when creating a new measure windows sometimes
  • Detect gray/primary colors during user measures does not work (it used to)
  • GUI icons do not scale correctly with High DPI scaling (either scale them with the DPI or maybe just include a second set of assets that were quickly run through a HQ2x or HQ4x filter)
  • Inhibit ABL doesn't do anything?
  • Switching to SMPTE2084 HDR with measures open causes the Target Gamma to go super high (>6) and then the options windows complains and wont let you press "OK" or "Apply"
  • "Preferences in saved file differ from active preferences, overwrite?" not exactly sure why that pops up all the time, possibly a bug?
  • Unable to customize some of the graph charts. For example in "Near Black Scale" I am unable to uncheck "Smooth background" or "Display dots"
  • dE bar on Free Measures doesn't update sometimes
  • Remove the >12000 temperature readout limit, it would make more sense to display the actual temperature
  • D120 would be nice to have as a standard color temperature as that is what some OEM's calibrate the "Cool" color temperature too (and what you calibrate in the service menu white balance)
  • Default theme should probably be "XP" as it matches Windows 7, 8 and 10 the best
  • "Recommended" "Color Difference Formula" for gray scale should probably be CIE2000, but I can see why some people use still CIE74 u,v
  • Why does "Gray Scale" need to be measured before I can do near white gray scale, saturation, etc.? Shouldn't it be using the Color Space selected in Preferences?
  • The "Comments" box is really buggy, you can't use Ctrl+A or even type with some of the number pad characters (ex: the minus - & + key on the number pad)
  • When using "Absolute Y w/gamma" under the DeltaE preferences it skews the RGB graph. That is very unexpected behavior. One would expect it only to change the DeltaE graph.

Cheers and excellent work on keeping HCFR up to date!
Olivier C. and s1andel like this.

Last edited by Quad5Ny; 11-03-2016 at 05:18 AM.
Quad5Ny is online now  
post #7950 of 8928 Old 11-03-2016, 05:28 AM
Member
 
Quad5Ny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 194
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 45 Post(s)
Liked: 34
Exclamation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott_Arm View Post
It is the Warm2 preset. Something weird with this tv, for sure. I purchased it just before I bought my xbox. It was actually massively on sale. When I bought it the tv was hanging on the wall in the store. It was from a local home theater store, not a big box place. Out of curiosity, before doing this calibration, I looked in the service menu to see how the panel is set.

sub-bright 128
R-off 128
G-off 128
B-off 128
sub-contrast 135
R-gain 130
G-gain 128
B-gain 165

Then there are some movie settings that are greyed out. Afraid to mess around with the service menu settings, so I haven't changed it.


I re-calibrated without adjusting the offsets, as you suggested. I think it seems better, so maybe changes are unnecessary. My gamma definitely isn't flat. Maybe that's not possible with an LCD like this. Don't know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjpreston View Post
^^^^^^^^^^^
Is this the problem? Blue gain at 165 in service menu whereas all other values at or around 128. Could some one have messed with that setting before you bought the TV?
That is correct. Those values are for the "Cool" preset, it is made to extract the maximum amount of light out of the set.

Standard, Warm1 and Warm2 are offsets that use "Cool" as a base. They are calibrated in the hidden Advanced service menu (under W/B_Movie).

  • Cool should be 12000K if they calibrated it correctly
  • Standard is calibrated to 9300K
  • Warm2 is calibrated to 6500K
  • Warm1 is done using some algorithm that differences Standard and Warm2 to derive 7500K

There is ZERO reason to touch those settings unless you are planning on calibrating all the other color presets too! Just use the user calibration menu it has all the same controls.
s1andel likes this.

Last edited by Quad5Ny; 11-03-2016 at 05:56 AM.
Quad5Ny is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Display Calibration

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off