HCFR - Open source projector and display calibration software - Page 289 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 980Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #8641 of 9306 Old 02-05-2017, 10:34 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Mississauga, ON, Canada
Posts: 2,608
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1592 Post(s)
Liked: 402
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miku-91 View Post
I haven't checked the "Use round down levels" in Advanced > Preferences > Use round down levels (AVSHD, DVE). Apparently this box should be checked when using AVS HD 709?
Checking this box tells HCFR to use the same R/G/B values as the patterns on the AVSHD and DVE calibration discs. Otherwise ome values may be off by 1 due to rounding which affects the accuracy of the calibration.

Quote:
When measuring color, I always measured using the 100% Color test pictures in AVS HD 709. Apparently the color measures should be done using 75% luminance and 75% saturation pictures, as they are closer to the actual regular colors in viewing materials. However, apparently the AVS HD 709 doesn't provide 75%/75% color patterns and instead they are 75% saturation / 100% luminance? If so, what on earth are the 75% color test patterns in AVS HD 709 meant to be used with and why are they there in the first place?
There are no "one-size fits all" calibration patterns. If the TV has perfect colour tracking, then in theory it doesn't matter whether you use 100/100 or 75/75. For a given TV, one may work better than the other. You need to run the saturation sweeps to see which one gives you the best overall results (lowest Average and Max delta-E).

Last edited by Dominic Chan; 02-05-2017 at 10:56 AM.
Dominic Chan is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #8642 of 9306 Old 02-06-2017, 01:35 AM
Newbie
 
Tony Mah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
Checking this box tells HCFR to use the same R/G/B values as the patterns on the AVSHD and DVE calibration discs. Otherwise ome values may be off by 1 due to rounding which affects the accuracy of the calibration.


There are no "one-size fits all" calibration patterns. If the TV has perfect colour tracking, then in theory it doesn't matter whether you use 100/100 or 75/75. For a given TV, one may work better than the other. You need to run the saturation sweeps to see which one gives you the best overall results (lowest Average and Max delta-E).
HCFR computer pattern generator is not working for me in auto mode. I have tried with 2 computers and both are the same

Here is what is supposed to happen:
click on measure primaries. HCFR will measure RGB and White and calculate delta

What happens is HCFR will measure

Measurement slot Pattern
1. Red White
2. Green Red
3. Blue Green
4. White Magenta

Workaround
Use free measurement for everything. All pattern and calculations are offset by one somehow

Have anyone encountered this?

Thanks,

Tony
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	2017-02-06 01_30_34-HCFR Colorimeter - 3.4.2 - Color Measures3.png
Views:	61
Size:	16.6 KB
ID:	1947169   Click image for larger version

Name:	2017-02-06 01_34_52-HCFR Colorimeter - 3.4.2 - Color Measures3.png
Views:	51
Size:	14.5 KB
ID:	1947177  
Tony Mah is offline  
post #8643 of 9306 Old 02-06-2017, 05:56 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Mississauga, ON, Canada
Posts: 2,608
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1592 Post(s)
Liked: 402
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Mah View Post
What happens is HCFR will measure

Measurement slot Pattern
1. Red White
2. Green Red
3. Blue Green
4. White Magenta
This is a known issue with v3.4.2 and is documented in the bug list as a serious issue: HCFR Bug List
The workaround is to use GDI instead of Floating Window for the pattern generator, or revert back to 3.4.1.

Last edited by Dominic Chan; 02-06-2017 at 07:02 AM.
Dominic Chan is online now  
 
post #8644 of 9306 Old 02-08-2017, 08:51 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Hi, I'm sorry if this has been asked before.

I've been using HCFR for weeks now. The meter I use is i1Display Pro and I use i1 Pro 2 as a reference meter.

I don't have a blu-ray player so I just load AVSHD709 Test Disk with alcohol 120, and open the test disk with PowerDVD with extended desktop to my TV torugh HDMI cable.

I calibrated the TV through this method, then I tried to watch movie from my Minix Neo U1 (android tv box) the picture is too dark.

Since I don't have a blu-ray player so I can't compare which one is correct.

1. My laptop is using a Intel 4000HD graphic card with the latest driver. I didn't alter any setting except I choose Full RGB output in the setting. I would like to know if the test pattern output to my TV through my laptop is the correct one or not (provided I use the default setting)?

2. May I ask whether any blu-ray player output exactly same signals (colors)?
3. Are android TV box output signals same as blu-ray player? Or do I have to calibrate different preset for a blu-ray and android TV box?

Hopefully I can get some answer from here cause I really don't know where to ask.

Thank you!
herculespang is offline  
post #8645 of 9306 Old 02-08-2017, 09:07 AM
Senior Member
 
dschlic1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Tampabay, FL
Posts: 316
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 128 Post(s)
Liked: 39
Unfortunately in the computer world, most graphical output is spanned from 0 to 255. In the video world it is spanned from 16 to 235. Your dedicated video players (Blu-Ray, Android TV box etc) will output 16-235. Your computer may output both. In some cases it will use 0-255 when showing static images, however shift to 16-235 when playing video. However you probably will not be able to determine before hand which type of output is used.


HCFR has an option on its image generator to select between 0-255 and 16-235. I have two computers, both with Nvidia graphics cards and both have issues trying to calibrate the output. I recommend purchasing a Blu-Ray player. The Sony BDP-S1700 is an inexpensive player that I am currently using.

LG OLED65B6P TV, Yamaha RX-V665 AV receiver, Sony BDP_S1700 Player, Klipsch F-30 speaker system
dschlic1 is offline  
post #8646 of 9306 Old 02-08-2017, 09:47 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by dschlic1 View Post
Unfortunately in the computer world, most graphical output is spanned from 0 to 255. In the video world it is spanned from 16 to 235. Your dedicated video players (Blu-Ray, Android TV box etc) will output 16-235. Your computer may output both. In some cases it will use 0-255 when showing static images, however shift to 16-235 when playing video. However you probably will not be able to determine before hand which type of output is used.


HCFR has an option on its image generator to select between 0-255 and 16-235. I have two computers, both with Nvidia graphics cards and both have issues trying to calibrate the output. I recommend purchasing a Blu-Ray player. The Sony BDP-S1700 is an inexpensive player that I am currently using.
Hi dschlic1,

Thank you for your reply. I'll try to get a blu-ray player as you suggest.
But can you help me to understand this:

1. Whteher all blu-ray and android tv box output color signal without alter it? Means the only thing we have to calibrate is the TV itself. After that no matter which blu-ray player or TV box we connect to the TV the color will be accurate?

2. From your reply, I think you mean blu-ray player is a more reliable input source than laptop hdmi output?

3. What I don't understand at the first page of this thread I read this : "the BD player is somehow altering the test pattern and not following industry standards for the rendering and transmission of video and that these errors must be "calibrated out" " it seems the author suggest automatic pattern generation is a better solution. However I think the same way as you that is bd player is more reliable.

4. I wonder if you ever used Calman or Chromapure? If by using this two software, the only way to get correct calibration is through a test disk, I don't know what's the point of purchasing the software?
herculespang is offline  
post #8647 of 9306 Old 02-08-2017, 11:27 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Mississauga, ON, Canada
Posts: 2,608
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1592 Post(s)
Liked: 402
Quote:
Originally Posted by herculespang View Post
I calibrated the TV through this method, then I tried to watch movie from my Minix Neo U1 (android tv box) the picture is too dark.
Since I don't have a blu-ray player so I can't compare which one is correct.
If you watch movie from the Neo, then you should calibrate the TV using the Neo, even if it's not the "correct" one. This is what's referred to as "calibrating out" the error.

Quote:
1. My laptop is using a Intel 4000HD graphic card with the latest driver. I didn't alter any setting except I choose Full RGB output in the setting. I would like to know if the test pattern output to my TV through my laptop is the correct one or not (provided I use the default setting)?
On many computers, if you connect the video output to a TV, the output will switch to Limited RGB, even if you set the Intel HD Graphics Control Panel to Full RGB. You have a better chance of getting the output correct by using the RGB range.
Quote:
2. May I ask whether any blu-ray player output exactly same signals (colors)?
Most Blu-ray players output Limited Range. Note, with Sony Blu-ray players you also need to make sure it's set the Standard mode.

Quote:
3. Are android TV box output signals same as blu-ray player? Or do I have to calibrate different preset for a blu-ray and android TV box?
In theory they have the same output signals, but you would always get more accurate results by using the same device to play the calibration patterns, as the device you use the play the movies.

Last edited by Dominic Chan; 02-08-2017 at 11:47 AM.
Dominic Chan is online now  
post #8648 of 9306 Old 02-08-2017, 05:21 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
If you watch movie from the Neo, then you should calibrate the TV using the Neo, even if it's not the "correct" one. This is what's referred to as "calibrating out" the error.....
Thank you, Dominic! You solved my doubts. Thank you very much!
herculespang is offline  
post #8649 of 9306 Old 02-08-2017, 05:37 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Hey,

Trying to squeeze the best out of my Samsung 65KS8000 using ColorMunki meter. Attached is the best I've been able to get so far. Looking for some feedback and improvement suggestions.
Attached Files
File Type: zip 08FEB17.zip (21.0 KB, 30 views)
herzmeh is offline  
post #8650 of 9306 Old 02-09-2017, 10:55 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Mississauga, ON, Canada
Posts: 2,608
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1592 Post(s)
Liked: 402
Quote:
Originally Posted by herzmeh View Post
Looking for some feedback and improvement suggestions.
Grey scale and primary/secondary colors look good. You may want to check the near black, near white, saturation sweeps, colorchecker as welll.
Dominic Chan is online now  
post #8651 of 9306 Old 02-09-2017, 11:38 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Are there any detriments for using the APL patterns for an LCD TV? I tried and ran the Greyscale and Color (100% A / 100% S) patterns with both the APL patterns and the Full Fields patterns and the results were mostly the same (the biggest differences were about 0,3 dE), except for the color blue, specifically in delta luminance. The Full Field patterns show a significantly lower amount of blue. All the other colors have almost the same delta luminance. I've turned all the auto dimming functions off, but I read that Samsung's LCD TV's have some sort of auto dimming features that can't be turned off which can occur when the screen shows a very bright image covering almost (or fully) the whole screen.

I know it is usually recommended to use Full Field patterns on LCD TV's, but are there any reasons not to use the APL patterns? If so, why? The reason why I might preder using the APL patterns, because if I understood correctly, my TV might auto dimm the test patterns with some full field test patterns and if it does so, the measurements are incorrect.

I'm using HCFR with the AVS HD 709 disc. The TV I have is a Samsung LE40C530. The colorimeter is X-Rite i1 Display Pro III.
Miku-91 is offline  
post #8652 of 9306 Old 02-09-2017, 03:33 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 392
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 210 Post(s)
Liked: 52
Hi

I spent the last two days calibrating my HW45ES on high lamp, with HCFR, ColorMunki Display and Ted's Calibration patterns, using REC 709 (75% / 75%) and BT.1886 gamma target..

I used to use the AVS 709 patterns, but just switched to Ted's and have a little bit more faith in the new ones. Especially given how there is documentation on things to watch out for when using them with HCFR.

I had to use a Sony Image Director software + RS232 to get a result akin BT.1886, otherwise the projector only comes with 2 point white balance controls, and gamma presets of which none looks like the BT.1886.

Wondering what this looks like, my main concern is the smoothness of the gamma curve is not quite smooth. I could probably make it a little bit better, just got tired already, and not really sure if it will make a big difference in my perception when watching movies.

Also the Magenta seems to swing left / right of the targets somewhat on the CIE, but similarly not sure if it would be a big problem in viewing experience.

Attached is my .chc file.













Big props to the makers of HCFR by the way, I have used it before for calibrating my old Plasma TV, and now my projector.
For me it is very easy and intuitive to use and understand, and has allowed me to really enjoy my displays .
Attached Files
File Type: zip hw45es.zip (19.1 KB, 18 views)
ConnecTEDDD likes this.
alextr75 is offline  
post #8653 of 9306 Old 02-09-2017, 04:22 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ConnecTEDDD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 5,439
Mentioned: 55 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1672 Post(s)
Liked: 2082
Quote:
Originally Posted by alextr75 View Post
Hi

I spent the last two days calibrating my HW45ES on high lamp, with HCFR, ColorMunki Display and Ted's Calibration patterns, using REC 709 (75% / 75%) and BT.1886 gamma target..

I used to use the AVS 709 patterns, but just switched to Ted's and have a little bit more faith in the new ones. Especially given how there is documentation on things to watch out for when using them with HCFR.
Hi, think that Luminance of 75% Stimulus Patterns has about 50% of the luminance of 100% Stimulus, so your adjustment point is at the center of the color luminance range.

Using 100% Stimulus Patterns your adjustment point is at the highest end of the luminance range but you will probably have larger errors at lower luminance levels.

This works for some displays / don't work to others, some display has better tracking, so even using 100% Luminance / 100% Saturation pattern, it tracks good other saturation/luminance levels, but needs to test your own display to find out.

There displays where you get better final results when you use 100% Saturation than from 75% Saturation, there others where when you use 100% Saturation Patterns, you have great performance to 100% area more errors to the lower Saturation levels.



When you have to calibrate a display using it's internal available calibration controls, because the gamut control points are only a few (1-Point per color) you have to try to find out which patterns you have to use for your gamut calibration which will provide you less average errors to all measured saturation levels + colorchecker.

There is not any golden rule which says which type of patterns to use to calibrate the CMS for each display model, you have to try to your display these 4 options.

(75%/75% - 75%/100% - 100%/75% - 100%/100%) to find out which type of patterns will provide you lower dE overall, try to calibrate based to one of these options (for example 100SAT/75AMPL) and at the end, measure using 4-Point Saturation / 4-Point Luminance / ColorChecker / Fleshtones.

Later re-calibrate your display using another option (for example 75SAT/75AMPL) and remeasure at the end with Saturation/Luminance/ColorChecker etc... and compare these 2 reports to see what patterns are providing you lower dE numbers.



The average Caucasian skin tone resides well away from any grey scale, or primary color. That's why you have to check ColorChecker because it contains skin tones, grass, sky, etc.; which are memory colors.

Initially it will take some time to measure these 4 pattern options to find which patterns are providing better performance but next time you will know which patterns to use for that specific display you are calibrating.

This is happening because you have only 1 control point for each color of Gamut Calibration, so you have to find which point you will use (% Saturation/ % Luminance)...think that you have a display with 1-point Grayscale.....where you have to test to see which grayscale pattern will balance better the whole grayscale and provide the lower errors, from 10% Gray till 100% White.

Usually it's better to do 75% Saturation / 75% Intensity or 75% Saturation / 100% Intensity calibration, where you will improve the color tracking of primary color saturations internally; which is more important from having better performance (less dE errors) only to the gamut edges (100% Saturation).

For problematic display where you want to have the best possible performance at every area, you have to move to 3D LUT calibration/profiling, this will correct multiple saturation/intensity/hue levels.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
ConnecTEDDD is offline  
post #8654 of 9306 Old 02-09-2017, 05:30 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 392
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 210 Post(s)
Liked: 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
(75%/75% - 75%/100% - 100%/75% - 100%/100%) to find out which type of patterns will provide you lower dE overall, try to calibrate based to one of these options (for example 100SAT/75AMPL) and at the end, measure using 4-Point Saturation / 4-Point Luminance / ColorChecker / Fleshtones.
Thanks for the advice !

I will have to recalibrate again anyway when I switch to low lamp soon, I am still trying to run on high until I hit 100 hours to break in the bulb.
I will for sure at least try 75/75 and 100/100 and then check the Color Checker / Skin tones.

I believe HCFR makes 75/75 and 100/100 pretty easy to calibrate because you can set it as the reference, and it automatically gives you the required targets, calculates dE, deviation from target luminance etc. It makes it very quick and easy to go through the primaries and secondaries, and set the best HSB for each.

I am not quite sure if 100/75, or 75/100 are as straighforward when using HCFR, or if it may require some manual calculations.
alextr75 is offline  
post #8655 of 9306 Old 02-09-2017, 05:49 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Mississauga, ON, Canada
Posts: 2,608
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1592 Post(s)
Liked: 402
Quote:
Originally Posted by alextr75 View Post
I am not quite sure if 100/75, or 75/100 are as straighforward when using HCFR, or if it may require some manual calculations.
For 75% Saturation / 100 intensity, you can use the HCFR saturation sweeps and only measure the 75%.

Last edited by Dominic Chan; 02-09-2017 at 06:30 PM.
Dominic Chan is online now  
post #8656 of 9306 Old 02-09-2017, 07:41 PM
Member
 
Quad5Ny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 196
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 47 Post(s)
Liked: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by alextr75 View Post
...Wondering what this looks like, my main concern is the smoothness of the gamma curve is not quite smooth. I could probably make it a little bit better, just got tired already, and not really sure if it will make a big difference in my perception when watching movies.

Don't worry about getting whichever EOTF curve you choose to match perfectly because you're only seeing 10 points out of 219 (Video), 255 (PC) or 876 (HDR).

Quad5Ny is offline  
post #8657 of 9306 Old 02-09-2017, 08:54 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 392
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 210 Post(s)
Liked: 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quad5Ny View Post
Don't worry about getting whichever EOTF curve you choose to match perfectly because you're only seeing 10 points out of 219 (Video), 255 (PC) or 876 (HDR).
Is there a way to measure more than a 10 point Gamma with HCFR ?

The way I adjust the gamma with the Sony is by manipulating a curve of 1024 values with an external software, representing the light output per input, which is then uploaded to the projector.

This could likely allow me to do very fine tuning of the curve if I was able to measure it. Though I'm sure it would take a very long time, even the 10 point Gamma measurement was taking long enough to be a little annoying when you sometimes press the button for a step too early .. and especially so when you make the same mistake twice in two consecutive runs.

alextr75 is offline  
post #8658 of 9306 Old 02-09-2017, 10:38 PM
Member
 
Quad5Ny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 196
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 47 Post(s)
Liked: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by alextr75 View Post
Is there a way to measure more than a 10 point Gamma with HCFR ?
Measures > Parameters > Number of grayscale levels

You can set it anywhere from 4 to 100.
alextr75 likes this.
Quad5Ny is offline  
post #8659 of 9306 Old 02-10-2017, 12:07 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 1
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Hello,

I've had a Spyder5 profile on my windows up till now, but I've grown tired of it because it switches on and off and on with some games when alt-tabbing. I originally installed the newest version of HCFR, but rolled to 3.3.9 to troubleshoot a problem I'm having, which did nothing to solve it.

The problem is as such: When I go to click "New", the Spyder5 shows fine in the "Sensor selection"-window, but the "Use existing meter correction file"-dropdown remains empty even though I have done "oeminst.exe $file_location$" which is, if I have understood correctly, not what should happen. I have checked with verbose on that it copies a "Spyd4cal.bin" into %appdata%/ArgyllCMS/. It does give an error or two during the process though, but I haven't a clue if they're relevant or not.

Here's the Oeminst.exe output:

Code:
Loading file 'X:\downloads\Spyder5Pro_5.0-16_Setup.exe'..done
'X:\downloads\Spyder5Pro_5.0-16_Setup.exe' seems to be a VISE archive
Input file 'X:\downloads\Spyder5Pro_5.0-16_Setup.exe' is a VISE archive file base 0x10008
Failed to locate file 'CVSpyder.dll' in VISE archive
Input file 'X:\downloads\Spyder5Pro_5.0-16_Setup.exe' is a VISE archive file base 0x10008
Located driver entry 'dccmtr.dll' at offset 0x771e0
Located driver file 'dccmtr.dll' at offset 0x19991c
Located and decompressed file 'dccmtr.dll' from VISE archive
Returning 'dccmtr.dll' length 53248 from 'X:\downloads\Spyder5Pro_5.0-16_Setup.exe'
Failed to locate Spyder 2 firmware in 'dccmtr.dll'
Returning 'spyd4cal.bin' length 2296 from 'dccmtr.dll'
Wrote 'C:/Users/Tuomas/AppData/Roaming/ArgyllCMS/spyd4cal.bin' 2296 bytes
Tursoke is offline  
post #8660 of 9306 Old 02-10-2017, 12:18 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ConnecTEDDD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 5,439
Mentioned: 55 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1672 Post(s)
Liked: 2082
Quote:
Originally Posted by alextr75 View Post
Thanks for the advice !

I will have to recalibrate again anyway when I switch to low lamp soon, I am still trying to run on high until I hit 100 hours to break in the bulb.
I will for sure at least try 75/75 and 100/100 and then check the Color Checker / Skin tones.

I believe HCFR makes 75/75 and 100/100 pretty easy to calibrate because you can set it as the reference, and it automatically gives you the required targets, calculates dE, deviation from target luminance etc. It makes it very quick and easy to go through the primaries and secondaries, and set the best HSB for each.

I am not quite sure if 100/75, or 75/100 are as straighforward when using HCFR, or if it may require some manual calculations.
Hi, for 75% SAT with 100% LUM, use the advice Dominic posted, using 4-Point Saturation run.

For 100% SAT with 75% LUM use the same way you do 100/100, since the White Patch from that Chapter is 75%, HCFR will re-caclulate targets from that measurement.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
ConnecTEDDD is offline  
post #8661 of 9306 Old 02-10-2017, 07:46 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 0
How do I set the software to auto generate 75% patterns using Chromecast?

I have 100% colors pretty spot on. If 75% are off by a lot, do I just recalibrate for those and hope everything falls into place?
herzmeh is offline  
post #8662 of 9306 Old 02-10-2017, 08:06 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Mississauga, ON, Canada
Posts: 2,608
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1592 Post(s)
Liked: 402
Quote:
Originally Posted by herzmeh View Post
How do I set the software to auto generate 75% patterns using Chromecast?
If you change the Preference to "REC 709 75%/75%", HCFR will generate the corresponding patterns.
Quote:
I have 100% colors pretty spot on. If 75% are off by a lot, do I just recalibrate for those and hope everything falls into place?
In that case just do a Saturation Sweep to see how it performs at lower saturation levels. Re-run the sweep if you make adjustments.
Dominic Chan is online now  
post #8663 of 9306 Old 02-10-2017, 10:02 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ConnecTEDDD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 5,439
Mentioned: 55 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1672 Post(s)
Liked: 2082
Quote:
Originally Posted by dschlic1 View Post
I recommend purchasing a Blu-Ray player. The Sony BDP-S1700 is an inexpensive player that I am currently using.
Hi, I got the change to measure the output of Sony BDP-S5200 Blu-Ray Player for digital errors.

I used my calibration disk and ColorChecker Classic (+Primary/Secondary Colors) Chapter with DVDO AVLab TPG Color Checker function (where it displays the digital level of the selected pixel on screen) to measure it's pattern output for digital errors when you playback a blu-ray, here are the results:





This player is bit-perfect @ it's YCbCr 4:4:4 output only.

Using notebook HDMI output usually can be accurate when they send RGB output but inaccurate when you send YCbCr.

Blu-Ray Player are doing the opposite, can usually have accurate output with YCbCr but inaccurate with RGB out.

Also there TV's that handle different RGB input from YCbCr input, for example LG OLED when you send RGB signal, it has different near black performance (reducing near black levels) vs. the YCbCr input.

Generally when you are using software pattern generator using your notebook output as extended desktop, there is no problem with that if you have verified that it's matching the readings you get from your player outpout (blu-ray/media player), to be sure that your calibration and your decisions of adjusting calibration controls will have accuracy when you playback a movie also.

When you are using an external pattern generator (Reference/Notebook HDMI output etc.) you have to compare the player output using a calibration disk to see if it's matching the pattern generator output. If it's not matching then makes no sense to use the generator output at all.

Since the consumer/enthousiast/DIY don't have a waveform monitor or HDMI Analyser or DVDO AVLab TPG ColorChecker, Murideo Six-A Analyser; that kind of equipment at their home, to check each player output setting to see if its accurate, you will always have better performance when you will use the specific player you will use for movie player for patch generation, because doing that you will include to the correction the player inaccuracies also, so you will have calibrate your full video chain.

When movies are mastered they are using systems which have their full video chain calibrated, calibration software is connecting with color-grading solutions like Assimilate Scratch, BlackMagic Desgn Resolve, SGO Mystika etc, and it generates the patterns from inside the color-granding software.

For sure it's easier and will require less time to spend if you use the software internal pattern generator but you have to test to see if it matches your player first.

The best thing is to take some measurements (Grayscale/Saturation/ColorChecker) from your Blu-Ray/Media player and then take the same measurements with the internal pattern generator.

Check the reports to see if the measurements from the both inputs are matching closely under meter repeatability tolerance.

Check also Black,White level measurement, Contrast/Brightness/Sharpness/Clipping patterns using your Player HDMI vs. Notebook HDMI to see if they are matching also.

I have posted some player differences, including OPPO's here: Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
ConnecTEDDD is offline  
post #8664 of 9306 Old 02-10-2017, 02:46 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Are there any detriments for using the APL patterns for an LCD TV? I tried and ran the Greyscale and Color (100% A / 100% S) patterns with both the APL patterns and the Full Fields patterns and the results were mostly the same (the biggest differences were about 0,3 dE), except for the color blue, specifically in delta luminance. The Full Field patterns show a significantly lower amount of blue. All the other colors have almost the same delta luminance. I've turned all the auto dimming functions off, but I read that Samsung's LCD TV's have some sort of auto dimming features that can't be turned off which can occur when the screen shows a very bright image covering almost (or fully) the whole screen.

I know it is usually recommended to use Full Field patterns on LCD TV's, but are there any reasons not to use the APL patterns? If so, why? The reason why I might preder using the APL patterns, because if I understood correctly, my TV might auto dimm the test patterns with some full field test patterns and if it does so, the measurements are incorrect.

I'm using HCFR with the AVS HD 709 disc. The TV I have is a Samsung LE40C530. The colorimeter is X-Rite i1 Display Pro III.
Miku-91 is offline  
post #8665 of 9306 Old 02-10-2017, 03:09 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Mississauga, ON, Canada
Posts: 2,608
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1592 Post(s)
Liked: 402
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Hi, I got the change to measure the output of Sony BDP-S5200 Blu-Ray Player for digital errors.
Hi Ted,
Many Sony BD players have multiple modes such as Standard, Theatre Room, Bright Room. They have very different playback characteristics, especially in the gamma. What mode do these measurements correspond to?
Dominic Chan is online now  
post #8666 of 9306 Old 02-10-2017, 03:12 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ConnecTEDDD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 5,439
Mentioned: 55 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1672 Post(s)
Liked: 2082
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
Hi Ted,
Many Sony BD players have multiple modes such as Standard, Theatre Room, Bright Room. They have very different playback characteristics, especially in the gamma. What mode do these measurements correspond to?
Hi Dominic,

this one didn't had any mode.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
ConnecTEDDD is offline  
post #8667 of 9306 Old 02-11-2017, 06:21 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 0
When I take measurements with the 75 A / 75 S color patterns I get very good results. The biggest dE is 2.2 for red and the rest of the colors have a dE rangin from 0.9 to 1.9. However, I get pretty poor results when measuring 100 A / 100 S patterns. The dE is around 4.0-4.5 for all the colors and their delta luminance is very high. Is there any way to get around this, as my TV does not have a CMS? Can I fix it with turning down the contrast and if I do so, will it affect the 75 A / 75 S color tests negatively?

I also ran the 24 pt Color Checker test and got good results with it.

I'm using GCD Gamut Calibration disc with HCFR and i1 Display Pro III.
Miku-91 is offline  
post #8668 of 9306 Old 02-11-2017, 08:59 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Mississauga, ON, Canada
Posts: 2,608
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1592 Post(s)
Liked: 402
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miku-91 View Post
When I take measurements with the 75 A / 75 S color patterns I get very good results. The biggest dE is 2.2 for red and the rest of the colors have a dE rangin from 0.9 to 1.9. However, I get pretty poor results when measuring 100 A / 100 S patterns. The dE is around 4.0-4.5 for all the colors and their delta luminance is very high. Is there any way to get around this, as my TV does not have a CMS? Can I fix it with turning down the contrast and if I do so, will it affect the 75 A / 75 S color tests negatively?
I wouldn't worry too much about it. If you want, you can run the Near White sweep to check for soft clipping with your current contrast setting.
Dominic Chan is online now  
post #8669 of 9306 Old 02-11-2017, 09:49 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
I wouldn't worry too much about it. If you want, you can run the Near White sweep to check for soft clipping with your current contrast setting.
What's soft clipping in Near White? (I'm pretty new to calibration.)
Miku-91 is offline  
post #8670 of 9306 Old 02-11-2017, 09:55 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Mississauga, ON, Canada
Posts: 2,608
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1592 Post(s)
Liked: 402
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miku-91 View Post
What's soft clipping in Near White? (I'm pretty new to calibration.)
Run it and post the HCFR data file (.chc) here. I can have a look.
Dominic Chan is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Display Calibration

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off