HCFR - Open source projector and display calibration software - Page 292 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #8731 of 9028 Old 02-27-2017, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by i_max2k2 View Post
I'm sure this has been asked and answered before, I tried searching but I couldn't get an answer. How do we see Gamma values in real time while doing the calibaration, I can see the graph, but i'm not sure where they show up while doing the measures.
All the graphs in HCFR are real-time; i.e., you can see the graph update point-by-point during a sweep. However, if you're manually measuring and adjusting each point, the most convenient way would be to display the normal measurement grid (where you can click on each column heading to select it), and display the gamma graph in the lower right Information window (replacing the Comments window).

Even without looking at the graph, if you simply adjust Y to match Y target based on the measurement grid, the gamma will automatically be correct.
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Last edited by Dominic Chan; 02-27-2017 at 05:19 PM.
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post #8732 of 9028 Old 02-27-2017, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Despoiler View Post
Since you branched HCFR you should create your own thread.
It is not my intention to branch or fork it off. I just wanted to see if I could contribute some of my time to fix some issues, since Zoyd doesn't seem to be very active right now due to RL\time constraints.
I've signed up to SourceForge, and will send zoyd a PM to see if he'll find the time to review my changes and merge them in.

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Originally Posted by mo949 View Post
Better yet, coordinate a response from Zoyd and keep all the improvements in one place, this thread.
I think so too.

Been looking more into the whole Chromecast red/blue saturation sweep crash. It looks like there's a small computation bug in HCFR's RGB calculations (in REC.709 mode), which causes the ccast library to trip up.
From what I can tell, the workaround I added for Chromecast specifically shouldn't affect the accuracy of patterns\readings, so I feel confident enough to carry on with other small bits and bobs.
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HCFR 3.4.3 | Git branch
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post #8733 of 9028 Old 02-27-2017, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by The Coolest View Post
It is not my intention to branch or fork it off. I just wanted to see if I could contribute some of my time to fix some issues, since Zoyd doesn't seem to be very active right now due to RL\time constraints.
I've signed up to SourceForge, and will send zoyd a PM to see if he'll find the time to review my changes and merge them in.
Yes, that seems to be the best approach. What was confusing, was probably your previous post which said
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I decided to create my own branch of HCFR...
Where can people download the installation executable for your current version?
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post #8734 of 9028 Old 02-27-2017, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by aaranddeeman View Post
On my projector (Epson 6040ub), there is color isolation setting for RGB. i.e. when selected it displays the contents only in R, G or B.
I was wondering if this would be helpful when calibrating the primaries in any way. or is there any other usage of this feature?
OK. After some "googling", it appears that this will help when adjusting the color control using the standard calibration disks (like S&M, DVE etc.) and use this mode instead of the included color filter.
Not so much for any sensor based calibration procedure. Why they call it one of the ISF controls is beyond me.
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post #8735 of 9028 Old 02-27-2017, 10:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
Yes, that seems to be the best approach. What was confusing, was probably your previous post which said


Where can people download the installation executable for your current version?
Right, I guess I should have made myself more clear.
I'll see if I can upload it tonight, I haven't gotten to it yet.

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post #8736 of 9028 Old 02-28-2017, 02:29 PM
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You can download the latest build right here:
http://www.alcpu.com/HCFR/HCFRSetup.exe

I've pushed the code to my branch on SourceForge, here:
https://sourceforge.net/u/arthurtc/h...eCoolest/tree/

Changes:

v3.4.3 rev 3 - 2nd June, 2017
- Fix: Test Window (Floating Window) should now be in sync with the selected pattern generator during sweeps.
- Change: Test Window will now remain open during sweeps.

v3.4.3 rev 2 - 7th April, 2017
- Fix: When 'Relative Y' is selected, 'White Reference weighting' is now disabled and returned to Default.
- Change: GDI is now the default generator, instead of Floating window.

v3.4.3
Update chromecast library to the latest one from AgryllCMS. This fixes the following issues:
    • Cast devices with long names are not detected\listed.
    • "Friendly" names are now displayed instead of the raw device name.
  1. Chromecast Red or Blue saturation sweep crash fixed, via a workaround.

Features/Usability:
  1. Add an option to select the target device to cast to, a default will be used in case the device is not found.
    • Currently not all Audio-only Google Cast devices are filtered out.
  2. In Preferences -> Advanced changing the dE Formula drop down menu will now enable/disable the other drop downs on the fly.
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Vizio M60-D1 | T95M with LibreELEC | Vizio SB3851-D0 | Calibration + Settings
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Last edited by The Coolest; 06-02-2017 at 07:27 PM.
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post #8737 of 9028 Old 02-28-2017, 02:33 PM
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That's pretty amazing that you got some fixes in. Nice!
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post #8738 of 9028 Old 02-28-2017, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Coolest View Post
[*]Update chromecast library to the latest one from AgryllCMS. This fixes the following issues:
  • Cast devices with long names are not detected\listed.
  • "Friendly" names are now displayed instead of the raw device name.
Thanks for the update. The Chromecast fix seemed to work well.

Quote:
In Preferences -> Advanced changing the dE Formula drop down menu will now enable/disable the other drop downs on the fly.
This needs a minor refinement. When selecting Relative Y, the White Reference Weighting option should be greyed-out.
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Last edited by Dominic Chan; 02-28-2017 at 03:58 PM.
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post #8739 of 9028 Old 02-28-2017, 04:34 PM
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@Dominic Chan

Oops, I missed that bit, I'll fix it.

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post #8740 of 9028 Old 02-28-2017, 11:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
Thanks for the update. The Chromecast fix seemed to work well.


This needs a minor refinement. When selecting Relative Y, the White Reference Weighting option should be greyed-out.
I uploaded 3.4.3.1, which fixes this problem.
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post #8741 of 9028 Old 03-01-2017, 09:21 AM
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Hi guys

I just wanted to ask for your opinion about this, I bought the colormunki version of the idisplay pro, and at the time when I read about it, it seemed like the hardware is the exact same, but software compatibility has differences, upon more reading, I can see that through a modified dll pro version works with certain software's. I'm still within in my first 30 days of the purchase, but I don't have plans to buy more expensive software, so I'll continue to use HCFR, do you guys think getting the pro will make any difference to me as long as I'm using HCFR etc? What in your opinion for a low budget, what is the best bang for buck.

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post #8742 of 9028 Old 03-01-2017, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by i_max2k2 View Post
I just wanted to ask for your opinion about this, I bought the colormunki version of the idisplay pro, and at the time when I read about it, it seemed like the hardware is the exact same, but software compatibility has differences, upon more reading, I can see that through a modified dll pro version works with certain software's. I'm still within in my first 30 days of the purchase, but I don't have plans to buy more expensive software, so I'll continue to use HCFR, do you guys think getting the pro will make any difference to me as long as I'm using HCFR etc? What in your opinion for a low budget, what is the best bang for buck.
HCFR works with Colormunki and i1Display Pro without requiring any modified dll. I would go with i1DP if the price difference is small. It's much faster than the Colormunki.
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post #8743 of 9028 Old 03-01-2017, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
HCFR works with Colormunki and i1Display Pro without requiring any modified dll. I would go with i1DP if the price difference is small. It's much faster than the Colormunki.
Thank you, it seems like for me the price is more than double for the pro, since there doesn't seem to be any differences in actual measurements (that I know of, taking maybe a little longer to measure, which so far hasn't been too bad), I'll stick with the colormunki.

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post #8744 of 9028 Old 03-01-2017, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Coolest View Post
I uploaded 3.4.3.1, which fixes this problem.

Arthur,

A suggestion: Put the links to the HCFR program and to the source code in your signature. That will make it easier for users to find and download.

Nice job.

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post #8745 of 9028 Old 03-01-2017, 03:38 PM
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@LarryInRI

Thanks for the suggestion, just edited my sig.

HCFR 3.4.3 | Git branch
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post #8746 of 9028 Old 03-01-2017, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by The Coolest View Post
I uploaded 3.4.3.1, which fixes this problem.
I've updated the HCFR Bug List to note that two of the issues have been resolved.

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post #8747 of 9028 Old 03-01-2017, 06:13 PM
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So did the red saturation sweep crash get fixed?
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post #8748 of 9028 Old 03-01-2017, 06:24 PM
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So did the red saturation sweep crash get fixed?
Yes, according to the change log it was fixed with a workaround.
Since you were the one reporting the issue originally, you can confirm it works for you now.

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post #8749 of 9028 Old 03-02-2017, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
HCFR works with Colormunki and i1Display Pro without requiring any modified dll. I would go with i1DP if the price difference is small. It's much faster than the Colormunki.
+1

ColorMunki Display / i1Display PRO are based under the same hardware; they both have sealed and higher quality filters and they are less sensitive to drift over the time, but you will get better and more stable/faster readings to any pulse based display (Plasma/DLP projectors etc.) with i1Display PRO because it has better refreshing rate scan capability, also i1Display PRO is supported from more calibration software solutions.

Additionally, the latest generation of i1Display PRO (Rev.B) it features a new refresh rate detection and synchronization AIO (All in One) measurement mode which can improve the measurement stability for certain displays and provide faster reading times, while this new measurement mode is not supported by HCFR or CalMAN, it's supported by ChromaPure/LightSpace.

Using i1Display PRO with HCFR/DisplayCAL/ArgyllCMS has also custom code for providing similar results with adaptive exposure times/sync modes without using AIO mode.

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post #8750 of 9028 Old 03-02-2017, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
Yes, according to the change log it was fixed with a workaround.
Since you were the one reporting the issue originally, you can confirm it works for you now.

Oh I plan to. I just have all the equipment boxed up and waiting for another opportunity to unleash it into my room
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post #8751 of 9028 Old 03-02-2017, 05:05 PM
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Well, you don't need any equipment to test for this issue. It happens with the simulated sensor in 3.4.2 as well.
So you can just do a quick run with the new build to confirm whether it's fixed or not.

HCFR 3.4.3 | Git branch
Vizio M60-D1 | T95M with LibreELEC | Vizio SB3851-D0 | Calibration + Settings
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post #8752 of 9028 Old 03-02-2017, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Coolest View Post
@mo949
Well, you don't need any equipment to test for this issue. It happens with the simulated sensor in 3.4.2 as well.
So you can just do a quick run with the new build to confirm whether it's fixed or not.
I already tried it in simulated mode and no crashing in v3.4.3.

I could not make v3.4.2 crash either - but only because v3.4.2 couldn't even detect my chromecast
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post #8753 of 9028 Old 03-04-2017, 07:53 AM
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Not sure if this was asked before, I have been using a recently purchased Colormunki Display to calibrate my E6 with hcfr, I started noting this yesterday, I was trying to see the luminance on HDR's 100% code and the reading on continuous reading kept going up, it would start at say 538 and it kept going up after every reading the meter was making. Whats going wrong here, is there an issue with the meter? I then switched to SDR 100% slide and I was seeing the same behavior 100% grey slide readings kept going up on continuous measurement. Is this an expected behavior am I doing something incorrectly?

Thank you.

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post #8754 of 9028 Old 03-04-2017, 09:56 AM
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Nope, its the TV.

Basically gamma isn't stable upon continuous readings. (At least not on high IREs.)

Does it matter yes. How much? We aren't sure - but no one seems to be too bothered. The actual brightness of any field is also influenced by field size and overall on screen brightness (when the LGs ABL kicks in) in the reverse direction.

So what we do currently is either try to "measure fast" (use sweeps, never measure several high brightness fields in a row), or to insert darker grey patterns every few fields (afair theres only a beta test version of HCFR out there that does that - but youd'd probably have to ask zoyd) - because "if those high luminance fields only stay on screen for a few seconds - their readings are at least stable".

So short answer is - don't use continuous measurements when calibrating those OLEDs. Instead use the camera "snapshot" feature (if you use HCFR as a pattern generator, which is recommended, because its just faster in general) as many times in a row as you need - but with at least a few seconds of pause in between.

The long answer is - yes it isn't textbook and yes it is a fault of the TV (directly influencing color perception) but no one seems to care that much...

The meter is fine. It only happens on those TVs (not on LED LCDs, not on CRTs, not on CCFL LCDs, not on QD LED LCDs ...).

cheers

h.
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post #8755 of 9028 Old 03-04-2017, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by harlekin View Post
Nope, its the TV.

Basically gamma isn't stable upon continuous readings. (At least not on high IREs.)

Does it matter yes. How much? We aren't sure - but no one seems to be too bothered. The actual brightness of any field is also influenced by field size and overall on screen brightness (when the LGs ABL kicks in) in the reverse direction.

So what we do currently is either try to "measure fast" (use sweeps, never measure several high brightness fields in a row), or to insert darker grey patterns every few fields (afair theres only a beta test version of HCFR out there that does that - but youd'd probably have to ask zoyd) - because "if those high luminance fields only stay on screen for a few seconds - their readings are at least stable".

So short answer is - don't use continuous measurements when calibrating those OLEDs. Instead use the camera "snapshot" feature (if you use HCFR as a pattern generator, which is recommended, because its just faster in general) as many times in a row as you need - but with at least a few seconds of pause in between.

The long answer is - yes it isn't textbook and yes it is a fault of the TV (directly influencing color perception) but no one seems to care that much...

The meter is fine. It only happens on those TVs (not on LED LCDs, not on CRTs, not on CCFL LCDs, not on QD LED LCDs ...).

cheers

h.
I've only calibrated on a very small sample of displays, all of which are LG "Smart"-type displays.
I think the "drifting" is a combination of things and not related to one, which is probably what you're implying by saying "fault of the TV", but I just wanted to give my pennies on this based on my small experience.

Brighter requires more power going to each pixel/backlight.
More power means more heat.
I feel confident to presume consumer displays have a sizable tolerance range for not just manufacturing but engineering as well. Internal components may have more ripple or simply become unstable the longer the current stays constant.
The more accurate your meter the easier it is to measure this phenomena.

Also, heat may change the spectral characteristics of the backlight (or pixel) and/or everything light passes through (substrates, filters, screen material composition, etc).
That's quite a large number of combinations where characteristics can be subject to change. And each of these points may be effected by temperature differently, and for these points voltage can further change things up differently at any temperature (read: non-linear behavior per component, which may or may not stay the same at different temperatures and/or voltage).
But wait, there's more!
How components degrade or simply age overtime is also a factor in this, and even this may be different per component.
But wait, there's still more!
Viewing environment can also join the mix! Room temperature, elevation, humidity and similar.
But wait th.... Ok I'm just gonna stop now. You get the idea.

I'm sure there are a ton of more factors related to this, but I suspect most of this is not a practical cause for concern. Temperature is definitely worth considering during calibration.

As for short and quick measurements, they may not be an ideal solution for some displays.
Just like a signal can start to drift the longer it's shown, the inverse is true as well.
A signal can be unstable at first and require time to normalize.

I'm assuming this is why some meters have an integration time (hardware averaging?).

This is always going to be different between panels, regardless of measuring devices. What kind of difference this really is, is another matter entirely that others can (and have) discussed here in the forums.


Also, I don't think you should assume that no one cares. I believe the discussion is not happening simply because we (the users) can't really do anything about it.
Higher quality components cost more, tighter engineering takes longer and costs more, and the more money a company spends for R&D will also raise the price we pay for the display. More sales = lower price = more money. In theory anyways. No product competition = price hike = more money (if you can't get it from someone else, and you want it, you've gotta pay up).
We users (AVSForum) are NOT the target market, and if we want to see changes then we have to inform the true target market and join forces.
But this will not happen for something like this. You'll see calibrated displays on a showroom floor before this happens



Speaking of averaging, I looked around for an answer to a question regarding this kind of averaging, but it was never really discussed.
Q: Is HCFR's "adaptive integration" something to enable if you have a meter that supports this at the hardware level (ex: ColorMunk Display)?
I've been assuming the more averaging the better but in the back of my mind I've also been thinking that this may conflict with such meters or otherwise skew measurements.

I've only been enabling it for 75-100 IRE calibration points (read: anytime repeatable measurements begin to float around.
I also manually average 50 measurements for a single patch (rounding to nearest integer), then I make two averages with the same measurements with everything above and below that average (I exclude measurements that match this original average, if rounded to nearest integer). Finally I find the average of those averages.
It's my own personal average-ception

And yes, this is overkill, but it let's me sleep at night (I has extreme OCD...)
I do think averaging a series of measurements to effectively counter balance any floating measurements.
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post #8756 of 9028 Old 03-06-2017, 07:49 AM
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@mo949
Well, you don't need any equipment to test for this issue. It happens with the simulated sensor in 3.4.2 as well.
So you can just do a quick run with the new build to confirm whether it's fixed or not.

Oh I didn't realize this. So do I need to somehow connect to the chromecast still in this mode to try it?
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post #8757 of 9028 Old 03-06-2017, 08:01 AM
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Quote:
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Oh I didn't realize this. So do I need to somehow connect to the chromecast still in this mode to try it?
The simulation only refers to the sensor. In the simulation mode, you can still select GDI, Floating Window or Chromecast for the output (Generator) as in the "normal" mode.
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JVC DLA-RS4910
HCFR Bug List

Last edited by Dominic Chan; 03-06-2017 at 08:07 AM.
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post #8758 of 9028 Old 03-06-2017, 01:22 PM
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I have a Spyder 5 I got primarily for my JVC RS520 autcal. Decided to try HCFR as I have read the autocal has issues for the new models. I have a question about my gamma readings.

I did a 11 point gray scale using my bluray player patterns (DVE) and compared to my HTPC/HCFR as the pattern generator. Sadly they don't match up well in the higher range so I will stick with the bluray output. This is specific to a JVC I suspect. I have a custom gamma profile selected in the JVC with 2.4 as the control value. For both the bluray patterns and the HCFR patterns when it was done it was reporting a gamma of 2.2. If I selected 2.6 as the control value in the JVC custom gamma setting they both reported 2.4 in HCFR. I am not really familiar with HCFR and left its gamma calculation (and most others) to the defaults ITU-R BG.1886, HDVT REC 709 and selected "projector" under the spyder setup and placed the Spyder about 1/2 way between lens and screen. The full white Y is around 6500 at that location I believe.

Should I instead select Display Gamma (black compensation) and target gamma in use of 2.4?

Not having any experience I thought I would ask before I trust what I am getting back.

I have the saved output so I can take a look at anything if there is something I should check. The gamma is fairly flat but drops at 80% and again at 90%.

EDIT: I should add any tips for JVC calibration would be appreciated. My red is low (91 about across the range). What is the best way to bring that in line?

Thanks

Last edited by fingersdlp; 03-06-2017 at 01:34 PM.
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post #8759 of 9028 Old 03-06-2017, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fingersdlp View Post
I have a custom gamma profile selected in the JVC with 2.4 as the control value. For both the bluray patterns and the HCFR patterns when it was done it was reporting a gamma of 2.2.
Did you have the Aperture in Manual mode during the measurement?

Quote:
I am not really familiar with HCFR and left its gamma calculation (and most others) to the defaults ITU-R BG.1886
That selection is only for the reference gamma, and does not affect the measured gamma.
Quote:
and placed the Spyder about 1/2 way between lens and screen.
Do you have the Spyder facing the projector lens or facing the screen? If the latter it should be much closer to the screen.

Quote:
Should I instead select Display Gamma (black compensation) and target gamma in use of 2.4?
That would give you something quite close to BT.1886, given the low black level of the JVC

Quote:
I have the saved output so I can take a look at anything if there is something I should check. The gamma is fairly flat but drops at 80% and again at 90%.
It would be useful to post the .chc data file.

Quote:
EDIT: I should add any tips for JVC calibration would be appreciated. My red is low (91 about across the range). What is the best way to bring that in line?
If the red is low, you can try selecting the 6000K preset and see if that brings you closer. You can also reduce the Red Gain by selecting a Custom Colour Temperature.

JVC DLA-RS4910
HCFR Bug List

Last edited by Dominic Chan; 03-06-2017 at 03:47 PM.
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post #8760 of 9028 Old 03-06-2017, 08:05 PM
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Displaying the auto pattern at the desired position

I have been calibrating for a short while, and am still learning. I have been using a DVD player, first with the AVS HD709 disc, and now Ted's disc. I am ready to move on to using the auto pattern generator, but I have run into a bit of a snag.

When I select the 'floating window' option, I can move the window in front of the meter, but I can't get rid of the triplets, even if I unchecked the 'display triplets' box. When I switch from floating window to 'GDI', when I begin the run, the window shifts to another spot on the screen, but the good news is there are no triplets displayed.

Can someone please point me to a user's guide that I can read to learn more about how to position the window in GDI mode, or is something really simple that I haven't figured out yet?

Thank you in advance...
Ron
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