HCFR - Open source projector and display calibration software - Page 309 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #9241 of 9306 Old 08-31-2017, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
I saw one post that says

source: https://forums.xbox.com/en-US/thread...F-D4209ADB33AF

Not sure if that's true.
Huh, did not know about that. I have a PS4 as well, so maybe I should use that in RGB limited for my AVS disc.

I'd still like to use the HCFR pattern generator though. What's the verdict on Chromecast? If my laptop's HDMI output is not reliable, would Chromecast do the trick?
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post #9242 of 9306 Old 08-31-2017, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesb23 View Post
Huh, did not know about that. I have a PS4 as well, so maybe I should use that in RGB limited for my AVS disc.

I'd still like to use the HCFR pattern generator though. What's the verdict on Chromecast? If my laptop's HDMI output is not reliable, would Chromecast do the trick?
I think the chromecast output is generally viewed as reliable, yes.
It should also be at the correct level.
On my end comparing chromecast output to laptop yields the same luminance values.

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post #9243 of 9306 Old 08-31-2017, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesb23 View Post
Huh, did not know about that. I have a PS4 as well, so maybe I should use that in RGB limited for my AVS disc.

I'd still like to use the HCFR pattern generator though. What's the verdict on Chromecast? If my laptop's HDMI output is not reliable, would Chromecast do the trick?
Which source do you use to watch movies? In general it's best to use the same source for calibration.

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post #9244 of 9306 Old 08-31-2017, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
Which source do you use to watch movies? In general it's best to use the same source for calibration.
Thanks CFC.

Dominic, most of my viewing these days is either the internal Netflix or Amazon apps on my LG OLED or the crappy DirecTV stuff I've DVR'd. For Blu-ray I can use either my Xbox One S or my PS4, and then for UHD/HDR discs I have to use Xbox but I haven't attempted an HDR calibration yet.
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post #9245 of 9306 Old 09-02-2017, 04:04 PM
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So I finally had the time and chance to hook up to the M60 and do a HDR10 calibration using HCFR only.
The results are great, and it was a lot faster than using external patterns with my kodi box.
Official 2016 Vizio M-Series Owner's Thread

HCFR 3.4.4 | Git branch
Vizio M60-D1 | T95M with LibreELEC | Vizio SB3851-D0 | Calibration + Settings
Vizio M55-C2 | T95N with LibreELEC | Calibration + Settings
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post #9246 of 9306 Old 09-05-2017, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by CFC View Post
I think the chromecast output is generally viewed as reliable, yes.
It should also be at the correct level.
On my end comparing chromecast output to laptop yields the same luminance values.

CFC
I decided to pick up a Chromecast and test it out. It can mirror my laptop just fine but every time I try to use HCFR with it after selecting CCast in the signal generator, I think hit measure greyscale and it keeps giving me the "no chromecasts found" error. I tried rolling back to 3.3.9 and that didn't help either. I guess I'll have to return the Chromecast, unless someone has any idea on how to make it work?
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post #9247 of 9306 Old 09-05-2017, 07:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesb23 View Post
I decided to pick up a Chromecast and test it out. It can mirror my laptop just fine but every time I try to use HCFR with it after selecting CCast in the signal generator, I think hit measure greyscale and it keeps giving me the "no chromecasts found" error. I tried rolling back to 3.3.9 and that didn't help either. I guess I'll have to return the Chromecast, unless someone has any idea on how to make it work?
That is a known issue with v2.4.2, and presumably fixed in v2.4.3 (by The Coolest).

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Last edited by Dominic Chan; 09-09-2017 at 08:26 PM.
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post #9248 of 9306 Old 09-05-2017, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
That is a know issue with v2.4.2, and presumably fixed in v2.4.3 (by The Coolest).
Oh nice, I will give that a try!
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post #9249 of 9306 Old 09-10-2017, 02:50 AM
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Hello experts!

I have Samsung 55H6500 TV that I quite successfully calibrated with HCFR, however, I'm unable to set the red and blue colors to a lower value. I was unable...what did I do...
Any advice, suggestion?

Thanks Guys!!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Grey Scale.png
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ID:	2280442   Click image for larger version

Name:	CMS.png
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Attached Images
File Type: jpg Saturation - Shift.jpg (219.2 KB, 19 views)
File Type: jpg Saturation - Luminance.jpg (232.0 KB, 17 views)
File Type: jpg RGB levels.jpg (210.5 KB, 15 views)
File Type: jpg Near White Scale.jpg (155.3 KB, 14 views)
File Type: jpg Near Black Scale.jpg (75.5 KB, 16 views)
File Type: jpg Luminance.jpg (208.0 KB, 13 views)
File Type: jpg Gamma.jpg (248.8 KB, 16 views)
File Type: jpg Free Measures.jpg (398.3 KB, 12 views)
File Type: jpg Color temperature.jpg (203.2 KB, 14 views)
File Type: jpg CIE.jpg (258.8 KB, 17 views)

Last edited by linux.alucard; 09-10-2017 at 03:40 AM.
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post #9250 of 9306 Old 09-10-2017, 05:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by linux.alucard View Post
I have Samsung 55H6500 TV that I quite successfully calibrated with HCFR, however, I'm unable to set the red and blue colors to a lower value. I was unable...what did I do...
Many of the attached figures are blank (templates with no measurement data).

It much easier for others to assess the results if you attach the HCFR data file *.chc.

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HCFR Bug List
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post #9251 of 9306 Old 09-10-2017, 06:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
Many of the attached figures are blank (templates with no measurement data).

It much easier for others to assess the results if you attach the HCFR data file *.chc.
Are you sure? sorry
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File Type: zip 55H6500.zip (2.0 KB, 7 views)
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post #9252 of 9306 Old 09-10-2017, 06:58 AM
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Originally Posted by linux.alucard View Post
Are you sure? sorry
The Saturation Shift, Saturation Luminance, Near White Scale, Near Black Scale are all blank. It doesn't appear you have made those runs.

You should make the saturation runs to assess the overall calibration, rather than looking only at 100% saturation. Depending on the result, you may want to try callibrating using the REC 709 (75%/75%) colour space.

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Last edited by Dominic Chan; 09-10-2017 at 12:47 PM.
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post #9253 of 9306 Old 09-10-2017, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
You should make the saturation runs to assess the overall calibration, rather than looking only at 100% saturation. Depending on the resultl, you may want to try callibrating using the REC 709 (75%/75%) colour space.
I'll try it, thank you!

Other question: I can't decide which gamma would be the better! Gamma 2.2 or Rec.1886
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post #9254 of 9306 Old 09-10-2017, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by linux.alucard View Post
Other question: I can't decide which gamma would be the better! Gamma 2.2 or Rec.1886
That depends on personal preference, the source material you're watching, and the viewing environment.

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post #9255 of 9306 Old 09-11-2017, 06:59 AM
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source material you're watching
fhd BD REMUX

Quote:
and the viewing environment.
Mostly dark room
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post #9256 of 9306 Old 09-11-2017, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by linux.alucard View Post
fhd BD REMUX

Mostly dark room
I would use gamma 2.4.

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post #9257 of 9306 Old 09-11-2017, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
I would use gamma 2.4.
Thank you Dominic! Is this correct?

One more question: When would you recommend setting BT.1886? Better TV? Other source material?

You help a lot, thank you!
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post #9258 of 9306 Old 09-11-2017, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by linux.alucard View Post
One more question: When would you recommend setting BT.1886? Better TV? Other source material?
BT.1886 makes a bigger difference for worse TVs, the ones that have poor contrast ratio. For TVs with good contrast ratio, BT.1886 actually approaches gamma 2.4.

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Last edited by Dominic Chan; 09-11-2017 at 09:40 AM.
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post #9259 of 9306 Old 09-11-2017, 09:42 AM
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BT.1886 is meant for worse TVs, the ones that have poor contrast ratio. For TVs with good contrast ratio, BT.1886 actually approaches gamma 2.4.
I understand!

I attached a pictures. Is the setting correct? (HCFR/madVR)
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File Type: jpg madvr_gamma_setting.jpg (73.2 KB, 22 views)
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post #9260 of 9306 Old 09-11-2017, 09:46 AM
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Chiming back in after a 2 year hiatus of calibrating I have a several year old i1 Display and a much older version of HCFR I used for calibrating my projector about 2 years ago - I now have a Vizio M65 4K/HDR TV I'm interested in calibrating and was wondering if HCFR is now 4K/HDR friendly, which I'm gathering it is? And if maybe there was a guide of some sort for calibrating HDR/WCG displays, or just a refresher guide in general somewhere?

It also seems HCFR has a built in generator now which can be cast to the display? I believe I was last using AVS709 to calibrate..

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post #9261 of 9306 Old 09-11-2017, 04:25 PM
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@CheYC

HCFR now supports Chromecast, but it doesn't work correctly with the built in cast system, at least last I tried.
HCFR sends over images, so the calibration tables are not actually loaded during that time. If you have an external Chromecast device, you can use that with it plugged into HDMI.
HDR10 support was added, but you also need a video card capable of switching HDR10 on, that means an NVIDIA GTX900 or GTX1000 series graphics card.
Which M series do you have? 2016 or 2017 model? I'm assuming 2017, as 2016 don't have WCG.
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HCFR 3.4.4 | Git branch
Vizio M60-D1 | T95M with LibreELEC | Vizio SB3851-D0 | Calibration + Settings
Vizio M55-C2 | T95N with LibreELEC | Calibration + Settings
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post #9262 of 9306 Old 09-11-2017, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Coolest View Post
@CheYC

HCFR now supports Chromecast, but it doesn't work correctly with the built in cast system, at least last I tried.
HCFR sends over images, so the calibration tables are not actually loaded during that time. If you have an external Chromecast device, you can use that with it plugged into HDMI.
HDR10 support was added, but you also need a video card capable of switching HDR10 on, that means an NVIDIA GTX900 or GTX1000 series graphics card.
Which M series do you have? 2016 or 2017 model? I'm assuming 2017, as 2016 don't have WCG.
A 2017 M series, and my laptop likely would not have a capable video card. Seems like things got much more complicated over the last few years lol. Maybe I'm just better off sticking with the rtings settings for now, I'm pretty happy with them.

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post #9263 of 9306 Old 09-12-2017, 11:05 AM
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I understand!

I attached a pictures. Is the setting correct? (HCFR/madVR)
Anybody pls...

Thank you
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post #9264 of 9306 Old 09-12-2017, 01:07 PM
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Anybody pls...
You already have the answer in the MadVR thread:
MadVR - ArgyllCMS

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post #9265 of 9306 Old 09-13-2017, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by The Coolest View Post
So I finally had the time and chance to hook up to the M60 and do a HDR10 calibration using HCFR only.
The results are great, and it was a lot faster than using external patterns with my kodi box.
I've been lurking for a little while now trying to catch myself up and learn the basics, so I apologize if this is base knowledge kind of stuff.

How did you set the HDR10 flag when doing your calibration?

I just picked up a P65-C1 a few weeks ago, and my coworker has a P75-C1 (and talked me into buying a new TV because of it), and we are both interested in calibrating our sets. Our current plan is to pick up a i1Display Pro and use HCFR for the calibration. I was thinking to either use my Chromecast or the built in casting to the TV. I saw you post earlier that the built in casting doesn't currently work right. So I am thinking that using the Chromecast is my best option. The Chromecast I have is fairly old and the stick kind rather than the circle, would that make a difference in the integrity of the pattern to the screen? And if I were to pick up the Chromecast ultra, would HCFR be able to cast with the HDR10/DV flag to put the TV into those modes for calibration?

Last question, if the issue(s) were fixed for casting to the internal TV cast interface, would that be the pseudo holy grail of being able to just use any computer with the meter plugged in and calibrate both SDR and HDR without having to worry about the pattern/signal being correct on the screen? I know the idea is to use whatever source you watch from in order to put up the patterns for calibration. I just stream all my content or game on PS4 Pro, so thats why I have been planning to go that route rather than burning a DVD/Blue-ray.

Thanks in advance!
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post #9266 of 9306 Old 09-13-2017, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by campiosa View Post
I've been lurking for a little while now trying to catch myself up and learn the basics, so I apologize if this is base knowledge kind of stuff.

How did you set the HDR10 flag when doing your calibration?

I just picked up a P65-C1 a few weeks ago, and my coworker has a P75-C1 (and talked me into buying a new TV because of it), and we are both interested in calibrating our sets. Our current plan is to pick up a i1Display Pro and use HCFR for the calibration. I was thinking to either use my Chromecast or the built in casting to the TV. I saw you post earlier that the built in casting doesn't currently work right. So I am thinking that using the Chromecast is my best option. The Chromecast I have is fairly old and the stick kind rather than the circle, would that make a difference in the integrity of the pattern to the screen? And if I were to pick up the Chromecast ultra, would HCFR be able to cast with the HDR10/DV flag to put the TV into those modes for calibration?

Last question, if the issue(s) were fixed for casting to the internal TV cast interface, would that be the pseudo holy grail of being able to just use any computer with the meter plugged in and calibrate both SDR and HDR without having to worry about the pattern/signal being correct on the screen? I know the idea is to use whatever source you watch from in order to put up the patterns for calibration. I just stream all my content or game on PS4 Pro, so thats why I have been planning to go that route rather than burning a DVD/Blue-ray.

Thanks in advance!
HDR10 is supported in my latest build of HCFR, look at this post: HCFR - Open source projector and display calibration software

I think that any Chromecast should work, but I haven't tested it with the first gen devices. I only have the round 1080P one (gen 2). I know that HCFR works with it and with my Vizio (as in it finds it and connects to it). HCFR sends images rather than video data to the Chromecast, therefore when you use the built in Chromecast in the display, the video look up tables (LUTs) are not loaded, and changing calibration values in the menus doesn't affect the image and readings. I haven't tested it with the recent firmware versions, though, so maybe things changed, but I doubt it. This also means that a CCU won't help to get HDR10 working from HCFR. Currently the only generators that support HDR10 are GDI and GDI (no background).

In theory, casting a video stream, be it SDR, HDR10 or DV should have the most neutral results, because there is no influence on the data displayed by inaccuracies of external devices.
So it would be the most accurate for streaming content, and inaccuracies of different HDMI devices will simply carry over as is and will not be affected by the 'offset' introduced by the source device you're calibrating with. On the other hand I think that since you're not going to be performing a professional calibration, the errors introduced by the PC or a player will be negligible or marginal at worst anyway. The i1 Display Pro is great, but it's not a reference spectro and not a high-end colorimeter.

HCFR 3.4.4 | Git branch
Vizio M60-D1 | T95M with LibreELEC | Vizio SB3851-D0 | Calibration + Settings
Vizio M55-C2 | T95N with LibreELEC | Calibration + Settings

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post #9267 of 9306 Old 09-13-2017, 01:44 PM
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HCFR sends images rather than video data to the Chromecast...
Thanks for the information. I know this is something that would probably take a lot of work, so please don't read this as a suggestion or request, but putting the work needed aside, would it be beneficial if HCFR were to send a video signal that was just the static image every frame rather than an individual image when casting? That way it could load the look up tables (which I am assuming means the various calibrations for SDR/HDR10/DV, thats how green I am at the moment) and allow the HDR10 metadata to be sent without requiring specific equipment (like HDFury) or graphic cards? Just asking out of curiosity, I have no idea if there is other things at play that would make that a bad idea even beyond the programming work.

Last question, if casting to the Chromecast doesn't load the look up tables because its not seen as video, does that just mean you can only calibrate to the base SDR table that would be in play by default (where the HDR10/DV must be triggered from video metadata)? I don't know enough to even be sure I would want to attempt to try and calibrate anything HDR (or even SDR for that matter since everything I read says the P series should be good out of the box), so I dont want to seem overly enthusiastic about going after HDR. I have just heard that it can make a world of difference, and I like to tinker with stuff, so I figured it was worth looking into.

Thanks again!
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post #9268 of 9306 Old 09-13-2017, 03:08 PM
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@campiosa

That would be the best thing to do, yeah. I just guess that the code for Chromecast was written quite a while ago and no one considered TVs with built in Chromecasts or how they would behave.
We also didn't have HDR back then.
I'm not sure how difficult this would be to create a video stream on the fly. I have no experience in that field. It wouldn't even have to be a high resolution stream, but it would require on the fly generation and encoding into H.264 and probably HEVC for HDR content. It would be a great addition and would make calibration cheap. All you'd need is a $70 CCU to be used as a signal generator, and in the case of TVs with a built in Chromecast it wouldn't require any extra hardware at all.

Chromecast in general has several modes, one of which is image mode where it simply displays static images. That's the mode HCFR uses.
From my tests, sending an image to the built in Chromecast didn't load the SDR tables either. So basically any changes you made in the calibration controls didn't have any effect on the displayed pattern, this makes it impossible to calibrate in this way. It might be worth trying it again with the new firmware to see if things have changed, though.

HCFR 3.4.4 | Git branch
Vizio M60-D1 | T95M with LibreELEC | Vizio SB3851-D0 | Calibration + Settings
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post #9269 of 9306 Old 09-13-2017, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by The Coolest View Post
From my tests, sending an image to the built in Chromecast didn't load the SDR tables either. So basically any changes you made in the calibration controls didn't have any effect on the displayed pattern, this makes it impossible to calibrate in this way.
Well crap. So the Chromecast is kinda useless for calibration then. Is that specific to the Vizio TVs (meaning there are others that you could use the Chromecast for)?
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post #9270 of 9306 Old 09-14-2017, 07:36 AM
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@campiosa

Yes, the built in Chromecast is basically unusable right now.

HCFR 3.4.4 | Git branch
Vizio M60-D1 | T95M with LibreELEC | Vizio SB3851-D0 | Calibration + Settings
Vizio M55-C2 | T95N with LibreELEC | Calibration + Settings
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