HCFR - Open source projector and display calibration software - Page 40 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 157Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1171 of 5536 Old 12-29-2012, 12:57 PM
Advanced Member
 
djams's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Plano, TX
Posts: 724
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
@ttnuagmada and cobhc2010 - what is the luminance (Y) value when you are seeing red bounce around?
djams is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #1172 of 5536 Old 12-29-2012, 01:55 PM
Senior Member
 
ttnuagmada's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 262
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 14
I'll have to get back to you on that. The gamma plots seemed pretty consistent though, and comparable to what I'd get with the i1d2, It's a mostly flat 2.2 from 20-100%, and below that it's actually a little bit low.

HTPC: I3 2100, Radeon 6950.
ttnuagmada is offline  
post #1173 of 5536 Old 12-29-2012, 02:09 PM
Senior Member
 
ttnuagmada's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 262
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by rahzel View Post

Constant read mode is a bit unstable at 30% and below, but when you do the sweep and check 0-100% in 10 steps, readings are pretty consistent and stable. I just use the constant read mode to do my initial measurements, then do several sweeps to do any touchups.
@Mavinwow, yes.

I was getting some pretty large variations when doing the greyscale measure. I'm talking like 5+ dE on 10-30% from sweep to sweep without touching any TV settings. I ran it several times.

HTPC: I3 2100, Radeon 6950.
ttnuagmada is offline  
post #1174 of 5536 Old 12-29-2012, 02:26 PM
Member
 
cobhc2010's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 58
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by djams View Post

@ttnuagmada and cobhc2010 - what is the luminance (Y) value when you are seeing red bounce around?

Again, I'll have to get back to you on that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ttnuagmada View Post

I was getting some pretty large variations when doing the greyscale measure. I'm talking like 5+ dE on 10-30% from sweep to sweep without touching any TV settings. I ran it several times.

And yeah, that's the same thing I was experiencing, there's massive variations during sweeps.
cobhc2010 is offline  
post #1175 of 5536 Old 12-29-2012, 04:00 PM
AVS Special Member
 
LarryInRI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: in RI
Posts: 5,298
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 167
If you are using USB cables longer than 6 to 8 feet, I suggest putting a bi-directional amplifier in the line. This one has worked great for me: http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=103&cp_id=10307&cs_id=1030702&p_id=5327&seq=1&format=2

It stabilizes the low level readings.


Larry
LarryInRI is offline  
post #1176 of 5536 Old 12-29-2012, 05:34 PM
Member
 
cobhc2010's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 58
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by djams View Post

@ttnuagmada and cobhc2010 - what is the luminance (Y) value when you are seeing red bounce around?

Moving from ~4.93 to ~5.05.
cobhc2010 is offline  
post #1177 of 5536 Old 12-29-2012, 05:40 PM
Member
 
cobhc2010's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 58
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

If you are using USB cables longer than 6 to 8 feet, I suggest putting a bi-directional amplifier in the line. This one has worked great for me: http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=103&cp_id=10307&cs_id=1030702&p_id=5327&seq=1&format=2
It stabilizes the low level readings.
Larry

I've just tried a different USB port without any success. I would have tried with a powered hub had it turned up today, but will be Monday now.

Edit 1:- Haha, just done 2 sweeps and the dE for 30% went from 0.8 to 7.2 on two back to back sweeps.

Edit 2:- Did some unique measures at 30% just for an example. This doesn't show Y moving much unfortunately, but this is also a reading that was showing the 0.8 dE when I first made some changes to the settings, and since a few sweeps it is now way off target, bearing in mind nothing has changed on either the screen or HCFR, or the meter.

cobhc2010 is offline  
post #1178 of 5536 Old 12-29-2012, 06:38 PM
AVS Special Member
 
LarryInRI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: in RI
Posts: 5,298
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 167
Make sure the hub has its own power supply. Don't depend on the computer to supply the needed current to both the meter and the hub.

Looks like your Y values changed about 2.5% and the blue value almost 4%. Over what time period were these readings taken?

Larry
LarryInRI is offline  
post #1179 of 5536 Old 12-29-2012, 06:42 PM
Member
 
cobhc2010's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 58
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

Make sure the hub has its own power supply. Don't depend on the computer to supply the needed current to both the meter and the hub.
Looks like your Y values changed about 2.5% and the blue value almost 4%. Over what time period were these readings taken?
Larry

Yeah, I will make sure of that. They were done over less than 3 minutes looking at the times the images were created.
cobhc2010 is offline  
post #1180 of 5536 Old 12-29-2012, 07:13 PM
Senior Member
 
ttnuagmada's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 262
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

Make sure the hub has its own power supply. Don't depend on the computer to supply the needed current to both the meter and the hub.
Looks like your Y values changed about 2.5% and the blue value almost 4%. Over what time period were these readings taken?
Larry

i ended up just plugging it straight into my computer to rule any of that stuff out. I got the same results on 2 different computers.

If his problem is anything like mine, the variation in the readings he posted is representative of half of a second or so. My red readings will bounce up and down varying as much as 10%. pretty much continuously, doing it multiple times per second sometimes, blue and green shift too, but not near as much. Sometimes it will settle down for a few seconds, but I've seen it settle on different values that weren't even close to each other, so I don't trust the readings at all.

HTPC: I3 2100, Radeon 6950.
ttnuagmada is offline  
post #1181 of 5536 Old 12-29-2012, 07:20 PM
Member
 
cobhc2010's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 58
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by ttnuagmada View Post

i ended up just plugging it straight into my computer to rule any of that stuff out. I got the same results on 2 different computers.
If his problem is anything like mine, the variation in the readings he posted is representative of half of a second or so. My red readings will bounce up and down varying as much as 10%. pretty much continuously, doing it multiple times per second sometimes, blue and green shift too, but not near as much. Sometimes it will settle down for a few seconds, but I've seen it settle on different values that weren't even close to each other, so I don't trust the readings at all.

Yeah, I just wasn't quick enough taking the screenshots, but this can happen over a short period of time. Definitely something strange at play here. Any luck with any other software?
cobhc2010 is offline  
post #1182 of 5536 Old 12-29-2012, 07:38 PM
Senior Member
 
ttnuagmada's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 262
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by cobhc2010 View Post

Yeah, I just wasn't quick enough taking the screenshots, but this can happen over a short period of time. Definitely something strange at play here. Any luck with any other software?

I haven't had the chance to do any serious playing around just yet. Hopefully I can check it out tonite.

HTPC: I3 2100, Radeon 6950.
ttnuagmada is offline  
post #1183 of 5536 Old 12-29-2012, 07:50 PM
Member
 
cobhc2010's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 58
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by ttnuagmada View Post

I haven't had the chance to do any serious playing around just yet. Hopefully I can check it out tonite.

Ah, fair enough. With this current problem I might as well still be using my Spyder 4 lol.

Edit: Plugged my Spyder4 back in for the hell of it, and saw similar results with blue moving up and down, albeit at snails pace. Makes me wonder if that's just down to being a cheap meter, or if there's something up with HCFR.
cobhc2010 is offline  
post #1184 of 5536 Old 12-29-2012, 08:26 PM
Senior Member
 
ttnuagmada's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 262
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by cobhc2010 View Post

Ah, fair enough. With this current problem I might as well still be using my Spyder 4 lol.
Edit: Plugged my Spyder4 back in for the hell of it, and saw similar results with blue moving up and down, albeit at snails pace. Makes me wonder if that's just down to being a cheap meter, or if there's something up with HCFR.

Well, I can tell you that my i1D2 has no problems at all with the newest HCFR on my ST30. If I had to guess, i'd say that the Argyll drivers don't quite have all of the bugs worked out as far as plasma's go on some of these newer meters.

HTPC: I3 2100, Radeon 6950.
ttnuagmada is offline  
post #1185 of 5536 Old 12-29-2012, 08:46 PM
Member
 
cobhc2010's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 58
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by ttnuagmada View Post

Well, I can tell you that my i1D2 has no problems at all with the newest HCFR on my ST30. If I had to guess, i'd say that the Argyll drivers don't quite have all of the bugs worked out as far as plasma's go on some of these newer meters.

You may be right there. I can't really afford to buy the likes of Calman right now, so I'll just have to stick it out for now.
cobhc2010 is offline  
post #1186 of 5536 Old 01-01-2013, 04:51 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Planet Dog
Posts: 5,240
Mentioned: 52 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 578 Post(s)
Liked: 506
The D3 does not use the argyll driver, it uses the windows standard HID driver. I see the same problem at 30% stim (~10 cd/m^2), fluctuations in the red reading in refresh mode on plasma, leading to dE variations of 4-5.
zoyd is offline  
post #1187 of 5536 Old 01-01-2013, 04:59 PM
Advanced Member
 
HD-Master's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Bronx
Posts: 590
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 68
Do we know if people using either of the meters being mentioned have the same issues with Chromapure or Calman at 30%? Or is it unique to HCFR?
HD-Master is offline  
post #1188 of 5536 Old 01-01-2013, 05:29 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Planet Dog
Posts: 5,240
Mentioned: 52 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 578 Post(s)
Liked: 506
zoyd is offline  
post #1189 of 5536 Old 01-01-2013, 05:32 PM
Advanced Member
 
HD-Master's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Bronx
Posts: 590
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

Calman is very stable with the same set-up.

Thank you.
HD-Master is offline  
post #1190 of 5536 Old 01-01-2013, 05:39 PM
AVS Special Member
 
spongebob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: San Jose, Ca.
Posts: 2,851
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Speaking of which; Should Calman, Chromapure, and HCFR all using the same meter, say a D3, give very similar WB results? I have found this not to be the case and it's very frustrating!


bob
spongebob is offline  
post #1191 of 5536 Old 01-01-2013, 05:44 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Planet Dog
Posts: 5,240
Mentioned: 52 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 578 Post(s)
Liked: 506
They should all report identical results if the measurement conditions are the same ( same display, pattern, area measured, etc.). In practice there are small variations due to probe stability and test set-up repeatability but these should in general be less than 1 dEuv.
zoyd is offline  
post #1192 of 5536 Old 01-01-2013, 05:45 PM
Advanced Member
 
HD-Master's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Bronx
Posts: 590
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by spongebob View Post

Speaking of which; Should Calman, Chromapure, and HCFR all using the same meter, say a D3, give very similar WB results? I have found this not to be the case and it's very frustrating!


bob

Is there one that has been the least consistent out of the three for you?
HD-Master is offline  
post #1193 of 5536 Old 01-01-2013, 11:22 PM
Member
 
cobhc2010's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 58
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Just for extra clarification regarding HCFR and the i1D3 on a plasma. I bit the bullet and bought Calman Basic, as I figured it's a good hobbies to get into. And as hinted at previously, it's a driver/HCFR thing as Calman measures low IRE fine.
cobhc2010 is offline  
post #1194 of 5536 Old 01-02-2013, 12:39 AM
Member
 
Kerlucun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Brittany France
Posts: 67
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

The D3 does not use the argyll driver, it uses the windows standard HID driver. I see the same problem at 30% stim (~10 cd/m^2), fluctuations in the red reading in refresh mode on plasma, leading to dE variations of 4-5.

I get the same issue with a Sony LCD TV, it disappears if I increase the iris latency (General preference menu).

Vidéo: Écran fixe Da-Lite HC-HP ( base3 m,gris, g 2.4), JVC X3 , Radiance 2021, Pana DMP-BDT310, VU+ Duo/VTI V6.0.8
HiFi: Tri_amp active, enceintes DIY Phoenix de S. Linkwitz, Tact RCS et 3*S2150, Dream 7000/Quad FM4
Kerlucun is offline  
post #1195 of 5536 Old 01-02-2013, 12:55 AM
Member
 
AV-Freak's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 140
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

The D3 does not use the argyll driver, it uses the windows standard HID driver. I see the same problem at 30% stim (~10 cd/m^2), fluctuations in the red reading in refresh mode on plasma, leading to dE variations of 4-5.

Without the argyl dlls you can't use the D3.

All the access of the D3 is through argyll.

If you have found an error in argyll post it in the argyll newsgroup.
(After have have checked it with plain argyll.)
AV-Freak is offline  
post #1196 of 5536 Old 01-02-2013, 05:19 AM
Newbie
 
hannes69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 12
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hi!
I own a x-rite colormunki display colorimeter and want to calibrate a single chip DLP projector.
Regarding this from Argyll homepage:
Quote:
The Display Selections for this instrument are:

r | c A refresh type display - The refresh period is measured, and the integration time adjusted appropriately (But not with ColorMunki Display).
Integration time is twice that of a non-refresh display mode.
n | l A non-refresh type display [Default].

Furthermore:
Quote:
Display types that refresh are CRT (Cathode Ray Tube), Single chip DLP (Digital Light Processing) and Plasma displays.

So obviously I have to use refresh mode. But what does the "But not with Colormunki Display" mean? Can´t I use refresh mode or does it mean because reading times of Colormunki Display are already higher than with i1D3 that the integration time is not adjusted because it is already high enough? I read with i1D3 one has to calibrate sync, is this necessary too with Colormunki Display? A little confused...
Hope someone of you has used succesfully Colormunki Display with refresh type display.
Hannes.
hannes69 is offline  
post #1197 of 5536 Old 01-02-2013, 04:39 PM
Senior Member
 
ttnuagmada's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 262
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Changing the iris time was something else that i tried, the fluctuations were still there. I had no problems with the LCD that I calibrated.

I ended up just buying calman. I'll probably still play with dispcalgui to see if its an issue with Argyll itself. Not sure when I'll have the chance though.

HTPC: I3 2100, Radeon 6950.
ttnuagmada is offline  
post #1198 of 5536 Old 01-07-2013, 08:53 AM
Advanced Member
 
Stuntman_Mike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: NYC
Posts: 662
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 34
I previously used the Color HCFR software with my i1 Display LT to calibrate my plasma TV and various LCDs. I'm about to purchase my first projector in the very near future and will probably be looking to get a new colorimeter.

I was thinking of either the ColorMunki Display or the new i1 Display Pro. I'm guessing that the meters are the same, much like the old i1 Display 2 and the i1 Display LT were the same meters, and the only difference between them was the software. That likely being the case, (correct me if I'm wrong) and my being intimately familiar with HCFR, I was leaning towards getting the ColorMunki, if, and that's a big if, HCFR can actually be used with the ColorMunki Dispaly, or the new i1 Display Pro for that matter.

My question is, is there a list of new meters that works with HCFR, and is the ColorMunki or i1 Display Pro one of those that does?

If not, what meter would you recommend to use with HCFR for profiling a projector?

Lastly, has anyone used the software included with the ColorMunki Display or i1 Display Pro, and if so, is it a viable option for serious profiling or is it too basic to be even adequate?

Thanks


Edit:

Clicked on the link to download the newest version of HCFR and saw notes there on a few meters. Seems that it does support the ColorMunki Display, correct? Save for a few issues that appear to have been resolved. Please let me know if I am correct on this.

I didn't see the i1 Display Pro listed. Should I take it to mean that it is not supported, or is that just a list of meters that have some issues so they are noted and not the full list of compatibility?

Stuntman_Mike is offline  
post #1199 of 5536 Old 01-07-2013, 09:08 AM
Advanced Member
 
sodaboy581's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Concord, California
Posts: 769
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuntman_Mike View Post

My question is, is there a list of new meters that works with HCFR, and is the ColorMunki or i1 Display Pro one of those that does?

i1 Display Pro works and you don't even need to install a driver.

Have one myself and have been using it.

Current HT setup:

Samsung UN65F6300 65" LCD HDTV, Polk CS20 Center, 2x Polk Monitor 75T Fronts, 2x Polk TSI300 Backs, Polk PSW110 Subwoofer.

sodaboy581 is offline  
post #1200 of 5536 Old 01-07-2013, 09:26 AM
Advanced Member
 
Stuntman_Mike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: NYC
Posts: 662
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by sodaboy581 View Post

i1 Display Pro works and you don't even need to install a driver.
Have one myself and have been using it.

Thanks for the reply.

Are you profiling a flat panel display or a projector by chance?

Ever hear of anyone using the ColorMunki with it?

Seems like the only difference is that the Display Pro profiles faster than the ColorMunki, but that the accuracy is the same. If that's the case, I might be inclined to go with the slower profiling and save $100.

Thanks

Stuntman_Mike is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Display Calibration

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off