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post #1531 of 4179 Old 02-26-2013, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by guida74 View Post

zoyd, first off I too would like to thank you for all of your personal time & effort you have put into this.

I have a ColorMunki Display and would like some help making sure that I am using the correct settings in Fork HCFR when I perform my calibration on my Optoma HD8200 DLP projector.

Launch the ColorHCFR software
Select DVD manual (use the AVS HD 709 calibration disc, using window patterns for calibration)
Meter Name - select Xrite i1 DisplayPro, ColorMunki Display sensor
Display Type - refresh for DLP?
Reading Type - non-contact (meter pointed at screen on tripod) what's the recommended distance from screen?
Spectral Sample - ??? should this be left blank (none) or what do I select
Calibrate meter - is this req'd? If it is how is it to be done?
Adjust the sensor position to obtain the highest ftL reading

Advanced Menu/ Preferences - what tabs and settings should be modified; the CurtPalme Dummies guide settings are based on the older version of HCFR and the newer version with your fork has several new additions/ settings to be applied here.

No sense in performing a calibration if the initial software is set-up incorrectly.........

Anybody????
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post #1532 of 4179 Old 02-27-2013, 03:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guida74 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by guida74 View Post

zoyd, first off I too would like to thank you for all of your personal time & effort you have put into this.

I have a ColorMunki Display and would like some help making sure that I am using the correct settings in Fork HCFR when I perform my calibration on my Optoma HD8200 DLP projector.

Launch the ColorHCFR software
Select DVD manual (use the AVS HD 709 calibration disc, using window patterns for calibration)
Meter Name - select Xrite i1 DisplayPro, ColorMunki Display sensor
Display Type - refresh for DLP?
Reading Type - non-contact (meter pointed at screen on tripod) what's the recommended distance from screen?
Spectral Sample - ??? should this be left blank (none) or what do I select
Calibrate meter - is this req'd? If it is how is it to be done?
Adjust the sensor position to obtain the highest ftL reading

Advanced Menu/ Preferences - what tabs and settings should be modified; the CurtPalme Dummies guide settings are based on the older version of HCFR and the newer version with your fork has several new additions/ settings to be applied here.

No sense in performing a calibration if the initial software is set-up incorrectly.........

Anybody????

hello, I'm not an expert in projector calibration but to get started:

1. use refresh for DLP and when initializing the probe click the calibrate button while displaying a 100% white pattern
2. distance should be enough to get maybe a 20-30 degree angle to center of screen without viewing the probe shadow (1 meter?)
3. spectral sample unknown for DLP so use none to begin with


for the advanced settings use rec.709 color space, display gamma between 2.2-2.4, most of the settings still correspond to what's in the guide. good luck!
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post #1533 of 4179 Old 02-27-2013, 06:15 AM
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Thanks zoyd. When I click calibrate nothing appears to happen; no message saying calibrating....no confirmation window saying OK or done. Is this normal?
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post #1534 of 4179 Old 02-27-2013, 06:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by guida74 View Post

Thanks zoyd. When I click calibrate nothing appears to happen; no message saying calibrating....no confirmation window saying OK or done. Is this normal?

If you are using the colormunki in refresh mode it should say "Display a white pattern" and then you click it and it takes a few seconds at which point it will say something like device calibrated, return to normal measurement position.
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post #1535 of 4179 Old 02-27-2013, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

If you are using the colormunki in refresh mode it should say "Display a white pattern" and then you click it and it takes a few seconds at which point it will say something like device calibrated, return to normal measurement position.

I've tried this before on these settings (refresh mode) and calibrate would not work.

You mentioned before that maybe the colormunki does not require to calibrate due to being a bit slower than the i1D3.

I think gwill (argyll guy) can probably put some light on this,if the colormunki display requires calibration in refresh mode or not.If it does,the feature is not working in HCFR.

Edit: Also one thing I noticed with the new executable HCFR is the gamma Y values have changed a bit compared to the previous zip version I had.

With the previous zip version I would enter my 100ire Y value into the excel spec sheet and all the other 0-90 ire gamma Y values would match up evenly.

So then when I checked my CHC file in the new exe.version I notced the gamma Y values have change and no longer match up with the excel spread sheet no matter where I set my preference...ie...(display gamma,display with black comp. or BT1886)
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post #1536 of 4179 Old 02-27-2013, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by PeterLewis View Post

I've tried this before on these settings (refresh mode) and calibrate would not work.

You mentioned before that maybe the colormunki does not require to calibrate due to being a bit slower than the i1D3.

I think gwill (argyll guy) can probably put some light on this,if the colormunki display requires calibration in refresh mode or not.If it does,the feature is not working in HCFR.

Peter Lewis is correct, I too remember reading somewhere that the colormunki display does not require calibration due to being slower than the i1D3.
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post #1537 of 4179 Old 02-27-2013, 09:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by PeterLewis View Post


Edit: Also one thing I noticed with the new executable HCFR is the gamma Y values have changed a bit compared to the previous zip version I had.

With the previous zip version I would enter my 100ire Y value into the excel spec sheet and all the other 0-90 ire gamma Y values would match up evenly.

So then when I checked my CHC file in the new exe.version I notced the gamma Y values have change and no longer match up with the excel spread sheet no matter where I set my preference...ie...(display gamma,display with black comp. or BT1886)
Quote:
-removed the unused option "Use measured colors" for saturation reference and replaced with toggle for calculating actual stimulus percent based on a round down (AVSHD,DVE) or round normal (GCD, internal pattern) assumption. The previous behavior was to use whole number percents which generates (very small) errors.

HCFR now calculates gamma Y based on the selection of this switch rather than assuming whole number percents as it did previously. This will slightly change gamma Y targets compared to previous versions. Leave the switch unchecked if you are using the GCD disk or internal patterns (or if you just don't know the pattern source exact levels) and check the switch if you are using AVSHD or DVE patterns.


you guys are right, colormunki sync(calibration) in refresh mode is not needed because of the slower read times.
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post #1538 of 4179 Old 02-27-2013, 10:23 AM
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Zoyd,the Gama Y still does not match up regardless if you check off avshd or dve....

This is how my gamma Y looked before with the zip version and now with the exe version (...)

Grey window target 2.22

0% - -0.00
10% - 0.699 (0.706)
20% - 3.26 (3.281}
30% - 8.01 (7.737)
40% - 15.17 (14.538)
50% - 24.90 (23.944)
60% - 37.33 (35.561)
70% - 52.56 (50.693)
80% - 70.70 (69.036)
90% - 91.82 (90.759)
100% - 116.022

With previous zip version my chc file matched up gamma Y perfectly inner numbers....With new exe version, regardless if i check avs/dve or change my preference thats what my gamma Y is showing now in (....).

Thanks Zoyd for all your research and exhaustive efforts..I appreciate everything you have done for us.
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post #1539 of 4179 Old 02-27-2013, 10:33 AM - Thread Starter
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already explained, zip version was wrong, new version in parenthesis is right. If the old version matched some spreadsheet you were using then the spreadsheet is wrong too.
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post #1540 of 4179 Old 02-27-2013, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

already explained, zip version was wrong, new version in parenthesis is right. If the old version matched some spreadsheet you were using then the spreadsheet is wrong too.

Thanks for the clarification...I was using the HCFR excel spreadsheet that someone created awhile back.I got the GCD spreadsheet now and looking at it,it seems to be more in line with what you are saying...Thanks.
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post #1541 of 4179 Old 02-27-2013, 03:33 PM - Thread Starter
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post #1542 of 4179 Old 02-28-2013, 03:32 AM
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Originally Posted by PeterLewis View Post

You mentioned before that maybe the colormunki does not require to calibrate due to being a bit slower than the i1D3.

The ColorMunki Display (due to the 1 second firmware delays) isn't fast enough to measure the refresh rate. It could probably benefit from synchronizing with the display refresh, but it would have to be set some other way, ie. via the user knowing what the refresh rate was, or some other information channel (ie. on a computer system it might be possible to look this up via the display API).

The ArgyllCMS V1.4 instrument library API that HCFR fork currently uses doesn't have the facility to set a refresh rate.

The ArgyllCMS V1.5 API does have this facility, but someone would have to do the work to switch HCFR over to using it.
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post #1543 of 4179 Old 02-28-2013, 03:42 AM
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Hi all,

I need your opinion please.

I mentioned my Philips 21:9 with an X-Rite EODIS3 i1Display Pro HCFR and calibrated.

In the measurement of color saturation me a much too high a value is specified.

I converted to a value of 72 at the TV set.

The DTP94 was previously always set a value of 50.
What is also true that 72 of the X-Rite EODIS3 i1Display Pro is way too much color.

Is the X-Rite EODIS3 i1Display Pro maybe broken?

Any idea what's wrong?

I measured with the HCFR version 3.0.4.0 and 3.0.4.2.


Thanks for your help.

greeting

"goggle translation"
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post #1544 of 4179 Old 02-28-2013, 09:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi all,
I need your opinion please.

It's hard to say without more information/measurements that led you to this result. The display pro that I have works just fine with both versions of HCFR that you mention. Perhaps you can post the measurement you obtained for the primaries? It's also not clear if when you say "saturation" you really mean "luminance" because the color control that's in all user menus is for luminance, not saturation.
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post #1545 of 4179 Old 02-28-2013, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by gwgill View Post

The ArgyllCMS V1.4 instrument library API that HCFR fork currently uses doesn't have the facility to set a refresh rate.
The ArgyllCMS V1.5 API does have this facility, but someone would have to do the work to switch HCFR over to using it.

Oh Oh... I wonder who that "someone" could be rolleyes.gif
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post #1546 of 4179 Old 02-28-2013, 11:14 AM
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Oh Oh... I wonder who that "someone" could be rolleyes.gif

You volunteering ?biggrin.gif
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post #1547 of 4179 Old 02-28-2013, 12:10 PM
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when configuring the internal pattern generator, is the size setting by area or physical size? if 15% is selected, is this 15% of the screen area, or 15% of the pixels?
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post #1548 of 4179 Old 02-28-2013, 01:35 PM - Thread Starter
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post #1549 of 4179 Old 02-28-2013, 05:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 65Cobra427SC View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by gwgill View Post

The ArgyllCMS V1.4 instrument library API that HCFR fork currently uses doesn't have the facility to set a refresh rate.
The ArgyllCMS V1.5 API does have this facility, but someone would have to do the work to switch HCFR over to using it.

Oh Oh... I wonder who that "someone" could be rolleyes.gif

I'll have a look but if it's just to sync the colormunki it's probably not worth it. When I was testing if I set the probe minimum integration at 1 sec it did not make any difference (at the .1 dE level) whether the probe was synced or not. But maybe there are other benefits I'm not aware of.
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post #1550 of 4179 Old 02-28-2013, 11:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

I'll have a look but if it's just to sync the colormunki it's probably not worth it. When I was testing if I set the probe minimum integration at 1 sec it did not make any difference (at the .1 dE level) whether the probe was synced or not. But maybe there are other benefits I'm not aware of.

Updating to the new API would take a little effort, as some things are fundamentally different in order to better mesh with a GUI. JohnAd would probably find it more straight forward, since he figured out how to fit the Argyll code into HCFR in the first place. It will be worthwhile in the long run, since HCFR can then easily keep up to date with ArgyllCMS instrument support. (I'm not planning to make such a radical change again anytime soon).

As for the ColorMunki display - the integration time is not 1 second, the extra delay introduced by the firmware is 1 second. The integration time is still whatever it's set to (typically 400msec for a refresh display).
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post #1551 of 4179 Old 03-01-2013, 12:13 AM
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Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

It's hard to say without more information/measurements that led you to this result. The display pro that I have works just fine with both versions of HCFR that you mention. Perhaps you can post the measurement you obtained for the primaries? It's also not clear if when you say "saturation" you really mean "luminance" because the color control that's in all user menus is for luminance, not saturation.


Hello zoyd,

Here's a screenshot of the color triangle.



And yes I mean the Luminance.
In the measurement comes out when I have the Philips LED adjust the color control on 72 to get to the measured value.

This is wrong, too much color ... the correct setting is 50 at my Philips Full LED Backlight-/3D-TV Cinema 21:9 Platinum 56PFL9955H at the isf modes.

Yesterday I calibrated meien Pioneer Kuro plasma 5090H ... everything is perfect ... the color luminance is measured perfectly.
So in plasma everything works perfect ... wrong with LED / LCD Colour Luminance measurement window at 100% red

I do not know why? What can I do ?

Thanks for your help.

regards


"goggle translation"
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post #1552 of 4179 Old 03-01-2013, 03:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by inthehouse View Post

Hello zoyd,

Here's a screenshot of the color triangle.

You don't use the triangle to adjust color luminance, post your primaries/secondaries raw measurements for the control at 50 and at 72 and make sure you use full field patterns all at the same % luminance.

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post #1553 of 4179 Old 03-01-2013, 04:16 PM
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So I'm a little confused with the naming convention of these Displays... It seems there is an i1 Display Pro, i1 Display 3, and i1 Display 3 pro.. is that correct? whats the difference between the Pro and Pro 3 or are they the same? I'm thinking about picking up this guy:http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-X-Rite-i1Display-Pro-Color-Calibrator-EODIS3-/360586372341?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item53f49f64f5 and wanted to be 100% sure what I was getting into. I'm assuming since it's "new" it won't need a recalibration even if the device itself may be old?

It seems the newest version of HCFR will support all but the Pro 3 if I understand what I've read correctly. Sorry for being a doofus smile.gif

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post #1554 of 4179 Old 03-01-2013, 05:01 PM
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You volunteering ?biggrin.gif

Trust me... you wouldn't want me anywhere near HCFR. By the time I finish working on it, RGB would be BBM... Black, Black and More Black eek.gif
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post #1555 of 4179 Old 03-01-2013, 05:01 PM
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Che,

Any i1 meter with 'display' in the name is a colorimeter. An i1 Pro (no display) is a spectrometer.

Larry
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post #1556 of 4179 Old 03-01-2013, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

I'll have a look but if it's just to sync the colormunki it's probably not worth it. When I was testing if I set the probe minimum integration at 1 sec it did not make any difference (at the .1 dE level) whether the probe was synced or not. But maybe there are other benefits I'm not aware of.
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Originally Posted by gwgill View Post

Updating to the new API would take a little effort, as some things are fundamentally different in order to better mesh with a GUI. JohnAd would probably find it more straight forward, since he figured out how to fit the Argyll code into HCFR in the first place. It will be worthwhile in the long run, since HCFR can then easily keep up to date with ArgyllCMS instrument support. (I'm not planning to make such a radical change again anytime soon).

As for the ColorMunki display - the integration time is not 1 second, the extra delay introduced by the firmware is 1 second. The integration time is still whatever it's set to (typically 400msec for a refresh display).

So if the new Argyll code gets implemented are we looking at HCFR 3.0.5 ?

Calibrate feature enabled for colormunki display would be sweet along with all the new Zoyd addition's HCFR is better than ever.

Thanks Zoyd,Gwgill and John Ad...
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post #1557 of 4179 Old 03-02-2013, 02:43 PM
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Folks,

Isn't it time to setup a donation method for Zoyd? I am active in other forums where the work of one or just a few make a big difference in the quality of the projects and products I (we all) use.

There is Magic Lantern firmware for Canon folks, two industrious developers for CynogenMod on HP Touchpads, etc. This list goes on.

All provide a PayPal method of sending a donation to the developer! It can be small, a few $, or as large as you want. I believe it is a great way to reward individuals for working free of charge, for the love of it, on Open Source projects - Like HCFR!

I don't exactly know how this is setup, but in the ones I have donated to, there is a PayPal link where you click, end up at PayPal where you "donate" and it ends up in the developers account.

So, I ask, isn't it time to do the same for Zoyd?

Zoyd, no blushing! I just want to thank you for your work in progessing HCFR. And, hopes that you will continue to improve and enhance a fine program.

Of course, I could always send a 6 pack of fine beer, but I would prefer to send a monetary dontation!!!
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post #1558 of 4179 Old 03-03-2013, 06:27 AM - Thread Starter
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@JGrana, Thanks for the kind words but no donations accepted. If you are ever in the Wash. DC area I'll take you up on a beer though. smile.gif






There is a new build of 3.0.4.2

Modifications as of 3/3/2013

- added option to toggle off show saturation targets
- added delta luma row to saturation charts
- fixed manual dvd message bug when black patch added
- fixed error in calculation of magenta/cyan saturation targets
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post #1559 of 4179 Old 03-03-2013, 09:14 AM
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Zoyd,thanks for your humility.Your time and effort are appreciated.

BTW ,so is it not possible to enable the calibrate function in refresh mode for the colormunki without having to install the new argyll?
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post #1560 of 4179 Old 03-03-2013, 02:14 PM
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Zoyd,thanks for your humility.Your time and effort are appreciated.
+1000, thanks zoyd for your great work smile.gif
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