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post #1621 of 4283 Old 03-17-2013, 12:33 PM
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Hi Zoyd, I found another minor bug I believe. In the image generator if you choose the CC6 colors, the "purplish blue" reference is correct, but the color the image generator throws up is incorrect, I believe it is displaying "blue flower" from the GCD spreadsheet reference instead of "purplish blue". I confirmed this when I saw that my image generator calculated dE on purplish blue was around 15, but if I pulled up "purplish blue" from the GCD disc mp4 files and measured, the dE was around 1. Let me know if that isn't clear and I can provide screenshots.

cheers


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post #1622 of 4283 Old 03-17-2013, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dallows View Post

Yes it does match. I do calibrate it before I start, but I will do it every 10 minutes now. I don't believe I'm using any matrix files but I will double check. At least I haven't added any myself.

Thanks.

Two points:

1) The original HCFR 2.x did not activate the bulb in the i1 Pro so using the white tile was unnecessary. If using the meter in contact mode, just placing the whole unit on a dark flat surface was sufficient for meter initialization (or calibration, if you will.) I don't know if the driver in HCFR 3.x activates the bulb but you can check for yourself by looking at the meter's head while clicking on the calibrate bar.

2) In the main toolbar under Measures > Sensor > Configure... > Eye One, there is a place where you can enter the time for which the meter calibration will be considered valid.

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post #1623 of 4283 Old 03-17-2013, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

Two points:

1) The original HCFR 2.x did not activate the bulb in the i1 Pro so using the white tile was unnecessary. If using the meter in contact mode, just placing the whole unit on a dark flat surface was sufficient for meter initialization (or calibration, if you will.) I don't know if the driver in HCFR 3.x activates the bulb but you can check for yourself by looking at the meter's head while clicking on the calibrate bar.

2) In the main toolbar under Measures > Sensor > Configure... > Eye One, there is a place where you can enter the time for which the meter calibration will be considered valid.

Larry

I hate to ask the dumb question, but the button on the side of the i1pro, when is that used? When I start up the HCFR software and do new, it detects it and then wants to calibrate. So I put it on the little base thing and hit "OK" in the software and it comes back "device calibrated successfully."

Am I supposed to use that button at some point? Sorry I really don't know. I did a quick search on Google but didn't come up with much.

I'm using HCFR 3.0.x because it doesn't work corrected with the latest version.

What should I be selecting for the Display bubble?





Thanks for all the help, it's much appreciated.
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post #1624 of 4283 Old 03-17-2013, 06:42 PM
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The button is used to calibrate the meter to a white standard or take a spot reading of color. Usually this is for color matching and creating ICC format profiles. But it requires software that supports this function and HCFR does not. Calibrating monitors and TVs have no need for the button so just ignore it.

For its purposes, HCFR accomplishes the same calibration and set the black level reading by placing the meter on a black surface and clicking the software button in the program.

BTW for a novice like you, it may be desirable to use the older version 2 as a learning tool. After you are comfortable with the software, you can move to version 3 for the new added features. Support for the i1 Pro is built into the version 2 program. You can get it by clicking this: http://www.homecinema-fr.com/colorimetre/release/Setup_v2_1_0.exe.

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post #1625 of 4283 Old 03-17-2013, 06:52 PM
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Thanks. Might if I ask why you suggest v2? I did a quick search, can't pull up much immediate info.
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post #1626 of 4283 Old 03-17-2013, 07:31 PM
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Since you have the i1 Pro and cannot use the more recent versions of HCFR with all the new advanced features, you will have a less steep learning curve with the simpler version 2. The results obtained with version 2 will be the same as those obtained with the first version of 3.

Just be aware that even version 2 will ask you to use the white tile for meter calibration -- even though it does not use it. smile.gif

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post #1627 of 4283 Old 03-17-2013, 08:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

Since you have the i1 Pro and cannot use the more recent versions of HCFR with all the new advanced features, you will have a less steep learning curve with the simpler version 2. The results obtained with version 2 will be the same as those obtained with the first version of 3.

Just be aware that even version 2 will ask you to use the white tile for meter calibration -- even though it does not use it. smile.gif

Larry

Alright so I'm going through this now with version 2. I have been placing my i1 on the little base when it wants to calibrate. If you're saying that's wrong please clarify, thanks.


Onto the calibration. I'm using just the HCFR windows off the AVSHD disk and getting around 26ftL with the contrast at 80 and brightness 56. If I use the 10% APL windows it's at basically 29ftL. If go higher on the contrast to up the light output I have to bump the brightness down and I'm not sure if I'll hit black crush. If I go up to 85 contrast and try 53-56 brightness I start clipping the white bars at like 250. Not sure what the acceptable is, I was trying to get as many bars visible as possible.

I've also been trying to use the 1% window to gauge what my brightness should be. 52 is the limit, any lower and the box disappears. So I can do contrast 85 and brightness 52 and get 36ftL.Contrast pattern gives flashing bars to 251 and I think on the brightness pattern i have 18 and up flashing.

Sorry to be a total noob. I have read through posts and forums but there's a lot to go through as you probably know.

Thanks again. Anytime you want to tell me to f-off and go read something just say so. smile.gif
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post #1628 of 4283 Old 03-17-2013, 08:28 PM
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Hi, this is a good place to start http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457
Also, it sounds like you have a plasma, there is a pretty good thread about calibrating for displays with abl here somewhere


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post #1629 of 4283 Old 03-17-2013, 09:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dallows View Post

Alright so I'm going through this now with version 2. I have been placing my i1 on the little base when it wants to calibrate. If you're saying that's wrong please clarify, thanks.

As long as you are absolutely sure that there is no light getting onto the white tile, that's fine. But if you are performing a contact mode calibration and the adapter (with the sponge base) is already attached to the meter, just put the whole thing on a black surface and do the initialization. It is the simplest way -- .

Quote:
Onto the calibration. I'm using just the HCFR windows off the AVSHD disk and getting around 26ftL with the contrast at 80 and brightness 56. If I use the 10% APL windows it's at basically 29ftL. If go higher on the contrast to up the light output I have to bump the brightness down and I'm not sure if I'll hit black crush. If I go up to 85 contrast and try 53-56 brightness I start clipping the white bars at like 250. Not sure what the acceptable is, I was trying to get as many bars visible as possible.

I've also been trying to use the 1% window to gauge what my brightness should be. 52 is the limit, any lower and the box disappears. So I can do contrast 85 and brightness 52 and get 36ftL.Contrast pattern gives flashing bars to 251 and I think on the brightness pattern i have 18 and up flashing.

Sorry to be a total noob. I have read through posts and forums but there's a lot to go through as you probably know.

Thanks again. Anytime you want to tell me to f-off and go read something just say so. smile.gif

I agree with 10k. Going beyond this is getting way off topic. The Curt Palme site is the best starting point.


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post #1630 of 4283 Old 03-18-2013, 05:34 AM
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Does the Colormunki Display need a calibration for HCFR?

I have just plugged it in and set it to use the LED WHite for Samsung sample or whatever that is and used it from there. I didn't hit the calibration button and wasn't sure if it was needed or not.

I am using it on an LG LED TV.

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post #1631 of 4283 Old 03-18-2013, 05:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eghill1125 View Post

Does the Colormunki Display need a calibration for HCFR?

I have just plugged it in and set it to use the LED WHite for Samsung sample or whatever that is and used it from there. I didn't hit the calibration button and wasn't sure if it was needed or not.

I am using it on an LG LED TV.
no
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post #1632 of 4283 Old 03-18-2013, 06:32 AM
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I am trying to use a Colormunki Photo with HCFR.
It works in contact mode but if I try setting the CM to "projector" position, HCFR tells me I"m in the wrong
position. Calibrate position is recognized just fine.
Any help out there?
thanks
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post #1633 of 4283 Old 03-18-2013, 08:32 AM
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A quick question about reading the software.

I am not home right now to look at the graphs themselves, but from memory here is what I see.

I am shooting for a 2.25 gamma. My grayscale shows 2.25 when I am done. But when I look at the gamma graph, most of the points below 50% are pretty good at around 2.2- 2.24. But after 50%, I start to show particularly Red and Blue rising way up and by the time it gets to 90%, they are both showing about 2.35-2.39.
Green stays fairly low and may get to 2.29-2.31 at 90%.

I know this doesn't seem to be a big difference and the overall gamma is right at 2.25, but when I then watch the TV, it seems like my primary colors, especially Red and Blue, are way too strong. Almost too deep by eye and not really looking realistic. They seem really dark, like on someones shirt and seem like they should be subdued somehow. Not a comfortable color to me. Not sure if that is explaining it well or not.

Is there a common denominator for adjusting this out. I have a 2 point, 10 point, and CMS, although with the CMS, I am thoroughly confused on HCFR. There is no graph to make it easy and I have resided to leaving the color, tint, and CMS at default since no matter what I do on the CMS, it seems to make things worse.

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post #1634 of 4283 Old 03-18-2013, 05:19 PM
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If ABL kicks in using the DVE disc test patterns, would that effect the actual greyscale or does it just effect the brightness of the pattern?

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post #1635 of 4283 Old 03-18-2013, 06:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CheYC View Post

If ABL kicks in using the DVE disc test patterns, would that effect the actual greyscale or does it just effect the brightness of the pattern?
it depends on the linearity of your display. Questions about calibration are going to get much more response in the other threads in this forum since not everyone uses hcfr.


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post #1636 of 4283 Old 03-18-2013, 06:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eghill1125 View Post

A quick question about reading the software.

I am not home right now to look at the graphs themselves, but from memory here is what I see.

I am shooting for a 2.25 gamma. My grayscale shows 2.25 when I am done. But when I look at the gamma graph, most of the points below 50% are pretty good at around 2.2- 2.24. But after 50%, I start to show particularly Red and Blue rising way up and by the time it gets to 90%, they are both showing about 2.35-2.39.
Green stays fairly low and may get to 2.29-2.31 at 90%.

I know this doesn't seem to be a big difference and the overall gamma is right at 2.25, but when I then watch the TV, it seems like my primary colors, especially Red and Blue, are way too strong. Almost too deep by eye and not really looking realistic. They seem really dark, like on someones shirt and seem like they should be subdued somehow. Not a comfortable color to me. Not sure if that is explaining it well or not.

Is there a common denominator for adjusting this out. I have a 2 point, 10 point, and CMS, although with the CMS, I am thoroughly confused on HCFR. There is no graph to make it easy and I have resided to leaving the color, tint, and CMS at default since no matter what I do on the CMS, it seems to make things worse.

if the graphs look something like these





make sure you do not have any enhancements such as dynamic contrast, vivid turned on. you can try moving your contrast lower and see if they straighten out. most times the gamma graph will show one or two of the colors dropping on the gamma graph, and rising on the rgb graph at 100%, which is a sign of a clip, or too high a contrast setting.
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post #1637 of 4283 Old 03-19-2013, 05:47 AM
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The above graphs are the way my graphs look when I check my grayscale after I turn the local dimming on.

How do I upload my HCFR for people to see? It says I have the wrong format being ChC.?

Ed

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post #1638 of 4283 Old 03-19-2013, 06:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eghill1125 View Post

The above graphs are the way my graphs look when I check my grayscale after I turn the local dimming on.

How do I upload my HCFR for people to see? It says I have the wrong format being ChC.?
Put it in a .zip file


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post #1639 of 4283 Old 03-19-2013, 06:49 AM
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I will see what I can do to get them up here. Not sure how to go about that. I have 7Zip on my computer, but only have used it to unzip files.

Ed

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post #1640 of 4283 Old 03-19-2013, 07:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eghill1125 View Post

I will see what I can do to get them up here. Not sure how to go about that. I have 7Zip on my computer, but only have used it to unzip files.
right click the file -> 7zip menu -> add to .zip file


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post #1641 of 4283 Old 03-19-2013, 07:39 AM
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Ok. Hopefully this shows up right.

These are my before and after files. This is the first full run of doing a before and after. Everything before was just experimenting.

My before and after have the same initial settings. I was trying to stay at 2.28 gamma, but might try again and get to 2.25. I do have 2pt, 10pt. and CMS available. The CMS does not have Luminence though. Just Color and Tint.

Backlight - 50
Contrast - 83
Brightness - 52
Color, Tint, and CMS were left untouched at this point. I have no idea what to do there without having larger Delta errors.

The 2pt. in the after has Rgain (-21), Ggain (0), Bgain (-20), The Cuts were left with exception of BCut +1

Now after this, if I turn on my Local dimming, the grayscale goes to hell and back, but the LG LW5600 needs the LD on for viewing. Without it, it is a washed up gray screen

I know others here would read these graphs and fix the colors and stuff right away, but I am really new and struggling.

Everything looks good on the graphs as far as I can tell, BUT, the colors on the TV after are still looking really bold and deep in an unnatural way. Not sure how to fix that.

Any helpful hints from the pros here? Maybe just a suggestion to put me in the right direction and I can go from there?

ISF2 Before.zip 2k .zip file
ISF2 After.zip 6k .zip file
Attached Files
File Type: zip ISF2 Before.zip (1.7 KB, 23 views)
File Type: zip ISF2 After.zip (5.5 KB, 27 views)

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post #1642 of 4283 Old 03-19-2013, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eghill1125 View Post

The above graphs are the way my graphs look when I check my grayscale after I turn the local dimming on.

How do I upload my HCFR for people to see? It says I have the wrong format being ChC.?

you can press "ALT" + "PrintScreen" to copy the window to the clipboard, then use a program like IrfanView, and paste, then save the file as a jpeg, bmp, png etc. this file can be uploaded and displayed like you see in my post.
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post #1643 of 4283 Old 03-19-2013, 08:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eghill1125 View Post

Ok. Hopefully this shows up right.

These are my before and after files. This is the first full run of doing a before and after. Everything before was just experimenting.

My before and after have the same initial settings. I was trying to stay at 2.28 gamma, but might try again and get to 2.25. I do have 2pt, 10pt. and CMS available. The CMS does not have Luminence though. Just Color and Tint.

Backlight - 50
Contrast - 83
Brightness - 52
Color, Tint, and CMS were left untouched at this point. I have no idea what to do there without having larger Delta errors.

The 2pt. in the after has Rgain (-21), Ggain (0), Bgain (-20), The Cuts were left with exception of BCut +1

Now after this, if I turn on my Local dimming, the grayscale goes to hell and back, but the LG LW5600 needs the LD on for viewing. Without it, it is a washed up gray screen

I know others here would read these graphs and fix the colors and stuff right away, but I am really new and struggling.

Everything looks good on the graphs as far as I can tell, BUT, the colors on the TV after are still looking really bold and deep in an unnatural way. Not sure how to fix that.

Any helpful hints from the pros here? Maybe just a suggestion to put me in the right direction and I can go from there?

ISF2 Before.zip 2k .zip file
ISF2 After.zip 6k .zip file

are these before and after files with the local dimming on or off?

looking at the primaries and secondaries data, delta luma is low across the spectrum, -2.3% yellow to -13.4% blue. You can raise your color control to get an average around the 0% mark.
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post #1644 of 4283 Old 03-19-2013, 08:30 AM
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These were both with LD turned off. I do turn it on after though.

Ed

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Quote:
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These were both with LD turned off. I do turn it on after though.

can you post measurements with LD turned on? If you are going to use it, you should be calibrating with it on.
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post #1646 of 4283 Old 03-19-2013, 09:25 AM
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Are you asking just to do the grayscale and colors as is now from these files but have the LD on?
I think that is what you mean and not to try another calibration from zero with it on. I will try to do a run with the LD on tonight when I get home.

Moving my conversation out of here to not hijack this thread. My stuff is more general...

Ed

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post #1647 of 4283 Old 03-19-2013, 10:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vega509 View Post

can you post measurements with LD turned on? If you are going to use it, you should be calibrating with it on.

No. Always calibrate with LD off (and use full fields for LCDs). Patterns trigger LD differently than real content and you will never be able to match the two, turn it off and live with whatever LD does to real content. Plasma ABL is the same, never calibrate with patterns that trigger ABL. Hopefully it does not color shift and only affects gamma.

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post #1648 of 4283 Old 03-19-2013, 10:37 AM
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Can someone give me a clarification on this. Using the latest HCFR 3.0.4.2 and using GCD window patterns, I should leave the option under Preferences -> General -> gray levels rounding assumption to unchecked?

And if I'm using AVS HD 709 patterns then I just leave it at the default which is checked?

I tried searching but couldn't get a clear answer. Thanks a bunch to zoyd and john for this HCFR fork! smile.gif


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HTPC/Sony S5100 to Sony HT-CT150 to Panasonic 55" VT60, Sony 32" EX400, Panasonic 50" S60

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post #1649 of 4283 Old 03-19-2013, 10:39 AM - Thread Starter
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correct, AVCHD,DVD=checked, GCD,internal patterns=unchecked

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zoyd is offline  
post #1650 of 4283 Old 03-20-2013, 10:43 AM
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zoyd or anybody else that knows, I'm using an older Display2 LT with the latest HCFR fork (3.0.4.2) and calibrating a plasma. When I start a new calibration it asks me if I want to use a meter correction matrix, I can either do no correction file or I can use d3_generic_plasma correction.

Am I safe to use this file or is this really only to be used with the newer display3 meters?

I actually calibrated without a correction matrix and with, and to my eyes the grayscale looks correct with the d3_generic_plasma correction matrix.


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HTPC/Sony S5100 to Sony HT-CT150 to Panasonic 55" VT60, Sony 32" EX400, Panasonic 50" S60

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