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post #1711 of 4441 Old 03-29-2013, 02:41 AM
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Zoyd in the end I could achieve! achieves a gamma curve of 2.25 with bt 1886! great!!
And after all, I saw generally well! for being my second calibration, not bad! the other was the one that started yesterday, but where the gamma was linear and was not what I wanted.
Now I'm going to take a nap, I was many hours with calibration, but worth it, I learned more and every day I like this world.
Still I can not believe the amount of hours you can take it, and you have to return several times to step back, to see that does not change anything!
When I got out of bed, upload photos and so give me your grades Zoyd!
Thanks as always, and had not been able to understand at all, if not for you.
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post #1712 of 4441 Old 03-29-2013, 12:35 PM
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Well, those were my results for my second calibration!
For night mode!
What if I owe them all, are the settings of the TV, ie, as was the TV set to reach these parameters.
I owe it to the next.
The only thing that is difficult to correct Zoyd, and it was from the first day that I started with my probe calibration was blue in the CIE! samsung is a problem or is there any better way to let that color?
Hoffman said it is preferable to have a better red and green, a blue! they?
Thanks for everything.
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post #1713 of 4441 Old 03-29-2013, 02:05 PM
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Leon,

Your calibration is great. Don't touch a thing. Blue is fine so leave it alone.

Terrific job.

Larry
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post #1714 of 4441 Old 03-29-2013, 02:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

Leon,

Your calibration is great. Don't touch a thing. Blue is fine so leave it alone.

Terrific job.

Larry

I agree, A++, good job.
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post #1715 of 4441 Old 03-29-2013, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

Leon,

Your calibration is great. Don't touch a thing. Blue is fine so leave it alone.

Terrific job.

Larry
Hi Larry, thanks for your words! probe the truth that when a movie on ps3 and some games, be silly with the image I was seeing.
Because much difference compared to a setup with and without probe patterns! It is amazing what losing one in your TV uncalibrated.
regards
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post #1716 of 4441 Old 03-29-2013, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

I agree, A++, good job.
Thanks Zoyd! You helped me a lot with his doubts and the latest revision of HCFR, everything got better!
This calibration I made using my ps3 as player!
Everything looks great, games, movies, amazing image.
And just now, finished a calibration for my xbox360, calibration of day.
And the results are similar to the ps3! Why not upload photos that is very similar, with gamma 2.24 and some change in the CMS and a little more backlight (normal because it is a day calibration) and the contrast is almost calibration compared to the ps3.
Zoyd, might in ps3 or xbox 360, both consoles are banding problems? Calibrations now after I did, but a lot less noticeable than before, but for me, it is the content I'm playing and because consoles have drama with that, I saw elsewhere.
I do not notice it before, but out there in a game, what I can tell, although probe those games where you could see some banding and now with the calibration, or what I'm noticing.
Zoyd thank you very much.
regards
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post #1717 of 4441 Old 03-30-2013, 01:03 PM
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Zoyd, will you autograph my iD3? This way I can sell it for big bucks when you become famous. biggrin.gif
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post #1718 of 4441 Old 03-31-2013, 03:07 AM
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My´n calibration for Samsung PS64E8000 is almost perfect when it comes to graphs (looks also great).

Any idea how to improve red 75% saturation?

Great thing is that Samsung has removed peak white limit (~110cd/m2) when use Movie mode, you can get over 170cd/m2 if you want !

btw, thanks to LarryInRI for guide to Samsung CMS settings smile.gif
First full CMS settings for me after three Panasonic mid serie plasmas, it was enjoy to make calibration with latest HCFR, thanks again zoyd smile.gif I used your matrix for i1DPro since it´s made with D8000
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post #1719 of 4441 Old 03-31-2013, 07:41 AM
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Tested/compared all the below along with a non-matrix corrected run on my 55ST50 using a iD3 and the three matrices came VERY close to each other. Really the only difference were within the HighEnd Red, and they really only varied + 2 within them. The non-corrected run had a very low red reading, it had me setting my HighEnd Red about 15% higher than the maxtrix corrected runs. The final settings ended up being:

Contrast: 84
Brightness: 52
Color: 46
Tint: 0
Sharpness: 0
ColorTemp: Warm2
RGB High R: 18
RGB High G: 2
RGB High B: 14
RGB Low R: 14
RGB Low G: 0
RGB Low B: 8
Gamma: 2.6

Originally Posted by zoyd

Code:
1.055150 0.008338 -0.013504
0.009191 1.028573 -0.008165
-0.013243 0.020807 0.977213

Quote:
Originally Posted by kjgarrison

Code:
1.038606808 -0.002502512 -0.011492028
0.010401065 0.994002567 -0.003384238
-0.006758658 0.008717773 0.977999919

Code:
From http://dispcalgui.hoech.net/colorimetercorrections/ using Panasonic Plasma
1.0383 -0.015199 -0.012862
0.030022 0.96707 -0.0048218
-0.00042114 0.0066268 0.95594





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post #1720 of 4441 Old 03-31-2013, 07:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Make73 View Post

My´n calibration for Samsung PS64E8000 is almost perfect when it comes to graphs (looks also great).

Any idea how to improve red 75% saturation?

Great thing is that Samsung has removed peak white limit (~110cd/m2) when use Movie mode, you can get over 170cd/m2 if you want !

btw, thanks to LarryInRI for guide to Samsung CMS settings smile.gif
First full CMS settings for me after three Panasonic mid serie plasmas, it was enjoy to make calibration with latest HCFR, thanks again zoyd smile.gif I used your matrix for i1DPro since it´s made with D8000

You're welcome! Nice looking calibration, I would recommend you use cell light 20 and reduce contrast to get your desired peak white because that will give you brighter response during scenes with a lot of white content (hockey etc.). There is not much you can do about the red non-linearity except calibrate using 75% saturation patterns.

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post #1721 of 4441 Old 03-31-2013, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

You're welcome! Nice looking calibration, I would recommend you use cell light 20 and reduce contrast to get your desired peak white because that will give you brighter response during scenes with a lot of white content (hockey etc.). There is not much you can do about the red non-linearity except calibrate using 75% saturation patterns.

Thanks for the tips.
Read that reducing cell light affect postively to brightness pops (ABL behavior), that´s why used lower cell light and higher contrast.
Maby try that at next calibration, after break-in period. So does it give higher ANSI white if you do it the other way around?
Do you think it´s worthwhile doing calibration with 75% saturation windows in this case? I suppose then 100% is off?!


Samsung PS64E8000 Movie mode calibration.zip 60k .zip file
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File Type: zip Samsung PS64E8000 Movie mode calibration.zip (59.9 KB, 12 views)
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post #1722 of 4441 Old 03-31-2013, 09:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Make73 View Post

Thanks for the tips.
Read that reducing cell light affect postively to brightness pops (ABL behavior), that´s why used lower cell light and higher contrast.
Maby try that at next calibration, after break-in period. So does it give higher ANSI white if you do it the other way around?
Do you think it´s worthwhile doing calibration with 75% windows in this case? I suppose then 100% is off?!

yes, ANSI white is higher for 20 cell on D series, please verify for E series. Don't know anything about white scene instabilities, they aren't present on D series. I think both D and E series are best calibrated with 75% amplitude/ 75% saturation using windows with constant APL (GCD) or constant energy (AVSHD small APL).

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post #1723 of 4441 Old 03-31-2013, 09:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

yes, ANSI white is higher for 20 cell on D series, please verify for E series. Don't know anything about white scene instabilities, they aren't present on D series. I think both D and E series are best calibrated with 75% amplitude/ 75% saturation using windows with constant APL (GCD) or constant energy (AVSHD small APL).

Oh, great info, appreciate that.
I think I´m going to do that again soon, I will report how it affects to ANSI white (post new calibration file).
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post #1724 of 4441 Old 03-31-2013, 09:39 AM
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hello Zoyd, much better, the calibration again! touch a little bit grayscale and got better results! rgb ranges are almost bound to 100% as everyone would like.
There is something I do not understand, but always gave me so far! when I play the white level to 2p for the first time to measure a high ire, 80 for example, both the red and the blue, I have to take almost 50 to approach the point d65, strange right? Still, after playing the 10p and the rest, to achieve a great result.
all very refined stay.
What I want to know is how I can improve the color saturation? you should play for that? alejandos are not very far from official, but there if you can touch something to improve, better!
The issue that if I measure 075 red for example and play using the CMS menu, move around and principal (the saturated red 100) moves away from the officer.
So with any color! but no, I did not care, maybe in the LEDs, so be it?
thanks
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post #1725 of 4441 Old 03-31-2013, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

yes, ANSI white is higher for 20 cell on D series, please verify for E series. Don't know anything about white scene instabilities, they aren't present on D series. I think both D and E series are best calibrated with 75% amplitude/ 75% saturation using windows with constant APL (GCD) or constant energy (AVSHD small APL).
hello Zoyd, much better, the calibration again! touch a little bit grayscale and got better results! rgb ranges are almost bound to 100% as everyone would like.
There is something I do not understand, but always gave me so far! when I play the white level to 2p for the first time to measure a high ire, 80 for example, both the red and the blue, I have to take almost 50 to approach the point d65, strange right? Still, after playing the 10p and the rest, to achieve a great result.
all very refined stay.
What I want to know is how I can improve the color saturation? you should play for that? alejandos are not very far from official, but there if you can touch something to improve, better!
The issue that if I measure 075 red for example and play using the CMS menu, move around and principal (the saturated red 100) moves away from the officer.
So with any color! but no, I did not care, maybe in the LEDs, so be it?
thanks
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post #1726 of 4441 Old 03-31-2013, 09:47 AM
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hello Zoyd, much better, the calibration again! touch a little bit grayscale and got better results! rgb ranges are almost bound to 100% as everyone would like.
There is something I do not understand, but always gave me so far! when I play the white level to 2p for the first time to measure a high ire, 80 for example, both the red and the blue, I have to take almost 50 to approach the point d65, strange right? Still, after playing the 10p and the rest, to achieve a great result.
all very refined stay.
What I want to know is how I can improve the color saturation? you should play for that? alejandos are not very far from official, but there if you can touch something to improve, better!
The issue that if I measure 075 red for example and play using the CMS menu, move around and principal (the saturated red 100) moves away from the officer.
So with any color! but no, I did not care, maybe in the LEDs, so be it?
thanks
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post #1727 of 4441 Old 03-31-2013, 10:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leondavid View Post

The issue that if I measure 075 red for example and play using the CMS menu, move around and principal (the saturated red 100) moves away from the officer.
So with any color! but no, I did not care, maybe in the LEDs, so be it?
thanks

I think your calibration is as good as you can get given your controls.
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post #1728 of 4441 Old 03-31-2013, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

I think your calibration is as good as you can get given your controls.
Zoyd thanks! calibration I made using my ps3 and then made ​​two more for my xbox 360!
Everything I did full range, because the TV supports it.
And all rgb output!
A guy called Forum Ferdopa EOL (has THX certification), told me long ago that if the TV supports full range, I can look at the movies and games, using a calibration and full-range output with rgb! if calibrated well, the movies do not suffer any change or anything weird!
I watch movies and probe with calibration and behaves very well and everything looks amazing truth, without appreciating errors which if appreciated before.
For games, they look amazing as well! Many colors are more natural and real, as true to leave the factory.
Ferdopa I had said that calibrating both with limited or full range YCbCr and RGB for all, in the movies, there were no differences or weird things like banding or macrobloking, etc.
You think?
I think I did okay and if properly calibrated, no problems, so I do not see anything strange.
I let you see my calibrations for ps3 and xbox, ps3 and night mode to day mode for the xbox and notice my values ​​and then if you can, tell me would you do if some change in values ​​or this well:
ps3-night.ZIP 27k .ZIP file
xboxday.ZIP 26k .ZIP file
Attached Files
File Type: zip xboxday.ZIP (25.6 KB, 8 views)
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post #1729 of 4441 Old 03-31-2013, 03:01 PM
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LarryInRI
larry, you could also look out for my calibrations? Zoyd so you and tell me how they see it.
Set slightly ps3, for rbg ranges in the gray scale, be better!
What I have not in the archives, is the saturation measurements, but I did not care, because if I adjust well to their pattern colors 100% saturation, then I can not adjust the other patterns, eg 75 or 50 %
Because if I play there, I modify the main, which is 100%
There are far removed from those points but maybe I can do something more or perhaps should not casually.
Imaging tests I did, are great and everything is very nice, stunning picture quality in movies and games! colors are very real, as true to leave the factory.
The skin on the people are very real, very well done with the calibration.
Thanks larry
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post #1730 of 4441 Old 03-31-2013, 03:27 PM
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Leon,

There isn't really much to say except everything looks great. The grayscale in both posts is as good as it needs to be with deltaE very low. Other than a misread of cyan in the xbox calibration, the color gamuts are fine. Gamma for both calibrations are nice and smooth.

There isn't anything else that needs to be done -- except to put the meter away and enjoy the picture.smile.gif

Larry
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

Leon,

There isn't really much to say except everything looks great. The grayscale in both posts is as good as it needs to be with deltaE very low. Other than a misread of cyan in the xbox calibration, the color gamuts are fine. Gamma for both calibrations are nice and smooth.

There isn't anything else that needs to be done -- except to put the meter away and enjoy the picture.smile.gif

Larry
thanks friend! full time to enjoy!
greetings Larry
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post #1732 of 4441 Old 03-31-2013, 11:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

yes, ANSI white is higher for 20 cell on D series, please verify for E series. Don't know anything about white scene instabilities, they aren't present on D series. I think both D and E series are best calibrated with 75% amplitude/ 75% saturation using windows with constant APL (GCD) or constant energy (AVSHD small APL).

Measured those with same peak white 120cd/m2 (35ftL) from normal IRE100 window with AVS HD 709 (At later I set peak white to ~125cd/m2 / 36.5ftL with contrast setting 85)
With cell light 13 and contrast 98 ANSI white was ~78cd/m2
With cell light 20 and contrast 83 ANSI white was ~83cd/m2
So yes, it gives little more light out with cell light set to max.
What´s the difference with D8000?

I have always calibrated plasmas both grayscale/white balance and color just with normal windows, now tried calibration with 10% APL Gray & 100% APL Color small windows.
I wonder how much white balance was off with APL since it was almost perfect with non-APL grayscale windows (Average dE 1.38).
First measured (just to check after that cell light/contrast setting) with normal windows and it was just great...after that 10% APL Gray, at IRE50 dE was over 7 confused.gif and all over much worse than with non-APL gray patterns.
I managed to get it calibrated, however ITU-R BT.1886 gamma tracking needed some extra work and couldn´t get it even, there´s still few small bumps.
Colors also needed some fine tuning with those small APS windows.
Overall it looks better when calibrated with APL cool.gif

It was late at evening and was tired, I didn´t figure out that 75% amplitude/ 75% saturation thing confused.gif
With AVS HD 709 there´s 75% color APL test patterns where also gray is 75%, should I use that? That is different than 75% saturation.
Should I then change HDTV - REC 709 (75%) also?
Tried those every combinations but it just measured weard readings.
Also tried set that red 75% saturation where it belongs but it affect negatively, think it´s better like it´s now. Maby it settle after break-in. There´s max 30 hours of usage now.

It´s not perfect neither with HDTVtest review, So maby I should stop here wink.gif

Here are those two calibrations, with normal windows (cell light 13, contrast 98) and APL windows (cell light 20, contrast 85).

Samsung PS64E8000 calibration.zip 105k .zip file
Attached Files
File Type: zip Samsung PS64E8000 calibration.zip (105.2 KB, 15 views)
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post #1733 of 4441 Old 04-01-2013, 12:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Make73 View Post

Measured those with same peak white 120cd/m2 (35ftL) from normal IRE100 window with AVS HD 709 (At later I set peak white to ~125cd/m2 / 36.5ftL with contrast setting 85)
With cell light 13 and contrast 98 ANSI white was ~78cd/m2
With cell light 20 and contrast 83 ANSI white was ~83cd/m2
So yes, it gives little more light out with cell light set to max.
What´s the difference with D8000?

I measured a full field drop of 29% between cell settings of 20 and 14 when calibrated to the same peak white level of 120 cd/m^2 so only a 6% drop for the ansi pattern is not surprising.

Quote:
I have always calibrated plasmas both grayscale/white balance and color just with normal windows, now tried calibration with 10% APL Gray & 100% APL Color small windows.
I wonder how much white balance was off with APL since it was almost perfect with non-APL grayscale windows (Average dE 1.38).
First measured (just to check after that cell light/contrast setting) with normal windows and it was just great...after that 10% APL Gray, at IRE50 dE was over 7 confused.gif and all over much worse than with non-APL gray patterns.

Welcome to the world of Plasma calibration! You will get different answers depending on what patterns you use(never use full field btw) but such a large shift in gray scale is unusual.
Quote:
I managed to get it calibrated, however ITU-R BT.1886 gamma tracking needed some extra work and couldn´t get it even, there´s still few small bumps.
Colors also needed some fine tuning with those small APS windows.
Overall it looks better when calibrated with APL cool.gif

That's good, my practice is to use patterns that stimulate a narrow region of luminance operating space and are closer to actual average content luminance.
Quote:
It was late at evening and was tired, I didn´t figure out that 75% amplitude/ 75% saturation thing confused.gif
With AVS HD 709 there´s 75% color APL test patterns where also gray is 75%, should I use that? That is different than 75% saturation.
Should I then change HDTV - REC 709 (75%) also?
Tried those every combinations but it just measured weard readings.
Also tried set that red 75% saturation where it belongs but it affect negatively, think it´s better like it´s now. Maby it settle after break-in. There´s max 30 hours of usage now.

You need to use the GCD disk for that in conjunction with REC 709 (75%), yes. It can get the flesh tones closer if reds are not lining up correctly when when using 75% amp/100% saturation patterns.

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post #1734 of 4441 Old 04-01-2013, 01:22 PM
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I measured a full field drop of 29% between cell settings of 20 and 14 when calibrated to the same peak white level of 120 cd/m^2 so only a 6% drop for the ansi pattern is not surprising.
Welcome to the world of Plasma calibration! You will get different answers depending on what patterns you use(never use full field btw) but such a large shift in gray scale is unusual.
That's good, my practice is to use patterns that stimulate a narrow region of luminance operating space and are closer to actual average content luminance.
You need to use the GCD disk for that in conjunction with REC 709 (75%), yes. It can get the flesh tones closer if reds are not lining up correctly when when using 75% amp/100% saturation patterns.

What is the GCD disc?


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post #1735 of 4441 Old 04-01-2013, 02:10 PM
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What is the GCD disc?
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1406352/gcd-gamut-calibration-disk


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post #1736 of 4441 Old 04-01-2013, 07:49 PM
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Could you guys take a look at my most recent calibration results here. I think the numbers are pretty good and all the graphs look decent, but...

Is there something I am missing that caused the green at 75% to show what it shows on the CIE chart. I have done a number of calibrations and they all seem to do this weird thing. The grayscale, gamma, and color temp look good, as does the numbers on the primaries and secondaries. Just the 75% green is strange and I don't know if I am missing something that I should see or just forget about it.

Thanks for looking..

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post #1737 of 4441 Old 04-02-2013, 02:57 AM
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Hi all, I made a new calibration to test, is full range! make it cost me much.
The TV and PS3, all full range! before had bad range settings on my TV!
Because I had the ps3, full range and the TV had HDMI black level normal (which is limited to that option, when I should have put in before low)
This time, I took the trouble to improve color saturation in all, it is now more acceptable.
And compared to the other calibration, now I have a little more contrast.
And then the rest, is very similar!
I stood in line with this new calibration, I think it's best!
Then make another, but mostly limited range to see what response I get and then compare!
Thank you all.

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post #1738 of 4441 Old 04-02-2013, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

I measured a full field drop of 29% between cell settings of 20 and 14 when calibrated to the same peak white level of 120 cd/m^2 so only a 6% drop for the ansi pattern is not surprising.

Ok, thanks for info. Havent´s seen brightness pops yet so I think using cell light 20 is just fine.
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Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

Welcome to the world of Plasma calibration! You will get different answers depending on what patterns you use(never use full field btw) but such a large shift in gray scale is unusual.

Can I ask what test patterns you use for calibrating plasma white balance (AVS HD 709 10% gray scale APL or maby GCD 10% gray scale APL) ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

You need to use the GCD disk for that in conjunction with REC 709 (75%), yes. It can get the flesh tones closer if reds are not lining up correctly when when using 75% amp/100% saturation patterns.

Have that .mkv version (which is pretty complicate to use), but just burned it to DVD and seems that there´s menus like with AVS HD 709, didn´t know that., great!
And again, can I ask what test patterns you have used to calibrate plasma colors? 75% amplitude/ 75% saturation ?
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post #1739 of 4441 Old 04-02-2013, 08:31 AM
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Has anyone been able to look at post #1736 and check my numbers and charts to tell me what they think happened at 75% green saturation? Is this an HCFR thing, a blip that keeps happening, or something I can do about it.

Should I not worry. Seems from what I have read through everything that the 75% green saturation would be pretty important for real world viewing. I think??? that is where most of our eyes see the colors on TV at that 75% range and not much is out there at 100%, correct?

According to the other numbers, grayscale and color temp, and gamma, things are really good. Not sure if I should be concerned.

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post #1740 of 4441 Old 04-02-2013, 08:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eghill1125 View Post

Has anyone been able to look at post #1736

Have you tried to calibrate colors with GCD disk using 75% amplitude/ 75% saturation patterns and HCFR setting HDTV - REC 709 (75%) ?
What happens after that to 100% saturated green?
Green delta xy at 100% saturation seems to be 0.009, possible to get more accurate?
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