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post #181 of 4098 Old 03-03-2012, 01:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDac View Post
I think you're right. Your observations match my tests. Due to my setup, I'm only able to test on one of the plasmas right now, but considering it's a VT25, I'll venture to say these observations are accurate.
Thanks for testing. It's good to know that it's not just me or my set. I have an ST30, so it's not surprising we are seeing similar behavior. The Display3 flys through the calibration with extremely stable readings. Tomorrow I'm going to try my SXRD upstairs, just for the heck of it.

After looking at the bars jump around long enough, I was able to get a decent instinctual feel for compensating for the jumpiness. Attached is the calibration I completed a few minutes ago. Interestingly, the measurements for the primaries and secondaries were very stable, so I was able to dial those in pretty quickly. Note that the color measurements are using 75IRE color patterns.

All patterns were generated from my video processor. Since my processor only generates windowed patterns, I'm going to take another pass shortly using AVSHD to generate APL patterns to see what sort of results I get.

 

Full Calibration - Duo 1st Pass.zip 6.1142578125k . file
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post #182 of 4098 Old 03-03-2012, 02:25 AM
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And here is my first attempt using the APL patterns on HCFR

 

Full Calibration - APL 1st Pass.zip 4.8193359375k . file
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post #183 of 4098 Old 03-03-2012, 02:55 AM
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Originally Posted by TheDac View Post

First off, a big Thank You! to John. I've gotten an i1Display Pro recently, and I was quite frustrated with the apps available (or not available) for it. Reactivating the project is awesome !

Firstly welcome to the forums
That has to set some kind of record for best first post.
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Originally Posted by TheDac View Post

Now on to my initial experience with the new version of HCFR. I'll be a little verbose, and hopefully that will help John with the development, so bear with me here.

Indeed it does. I'll reply to the relevant parts but the high level of detail is very useful on working out what's going on
 
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I have 2 colorimeters: a DTP-94 that I've had for a very, very long time, and an i1Display Pro retail (i1D3).

I suppose it's inevitable that multiple meters might have issues, but very useful to test with this config.
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I started the program, with both devices plugged in, selected the Argyll device, and I suddenly got the "Incorrect Driver - starting communications with the meter failed with severe error" message. Both devices were running with the XRite drivers. I went back to the sensor selection screen, selected the DTP-94 device, and voila, the program started up just fine. Took a full set of readings, and everything looked OK.

Here's what I think happened, the argyll driver spotted the 2 meters and assigned port 1 to teh DTP-94 and port 2 to the i1d3, when you started the meter on port 1 you got the incorrect driver error on teh DTP-94 but at thios point had you selected port 2 the i1d3 should have worked.
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But, my interest was with the i1D3. So I installed the Argyll drivers, first just for the i1D3, then for the DTP-94 as well. I tried all possible combinations between them, but the result was the same: HCFR would work fine with the DTP-94 on both drivers, but it wouldn't work with the i1D3 on either driver.

This is odd, were you playing with the meter number at this stage? When you say the DTP-94 was working was it working via the argyll driver or the HCFR one?
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so I decided to tinker with it. I commented a couple of lines of code where the program is bypassing HID devices (lines 80-81 in usbio.c):

There may well be an issue with trying to use the i1d3 with the supplied drivers. We may need to look into this later, for now use the x-rite drivers.
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The i1D3 has some slight variations - I think due to the speed it reads the patches - I timed it at exactly 10 seconds for the entire grayscale, primaries and secondaries set. That's 17 patches in 10 seconds, just over half a second for each. The variations were just slight in my case, so I don't worry about it. Of note is that the first 3-4 gray patches were considerably slower, just over a second, while the light grays went by very, very fast. The DTP-94 was consistent as well (though wrong, but that's a device problem).

Yes the latest code for the i1d3 changes the way it calculated the integration time at lower light levels which should give better results at the expense of slightly longer read times.
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Originally Posted by TheDac View Post

1) if you use an i1D3, make sure you disable "Confirmation message" under Advanced -> Preferences -> Advanced. The device will not wait for your confirmation, and it will start reading, giving errant readings. By the time you click OK, the generator has almost already finished going through the grayscale.

Sounds like a bug, thanks
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Originally Posted by TheDac View Post

2) in a couple of instances, the Argyll meter selection did not recognize the i1D3 because the cap on the lens was on. In my case, I usually keep it on until just before I run the process. The odd thing is that I can't replicate the issue. It happened a couple of times, and then it just went away.

Keep and eye out for this happening again, the cap should not affect recognition
 
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3) if you have multiple meters on your computer, you may get strange problems. In my case I was running at times with both devices attached. The Argyll selection screen would not populate the device name after it was selected, and you might not know which device is selected, since the selection screen only displays the meter number, not
the name.

Yes, there are problems with multiple meters in 3.0.0.0, this will improve...
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDac View Post

4) as I just mentioned the Argyll selection screen does not always populate the name of the device once you make your selection and close the window. I was able to consistently replicate that. I would go to the selection screen, select meter 2 (the i1D3), click OK, and the Sensor would show just "Argyll Meter" no matter how long I waited. I would go back in the selection screen, simply click OK, and now the name would appear under sensor, i1Display3. The meter was still selected the first time around, and it was working fine, but the sensor data was just not being updated.

The way detection works will change a lot in teh next version, you should select the meter by name from the list.
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Originally Posted by TheDac View Post

5) I have an odd issue when both meters are running on the XRite drivers, and both are plugged in. I suppose this is due to the enumeration of the devices in the original list. Here's the issue: the i1D3 is assigned meter 2; meter 1 seems to be assigned, but it generates the "Incorrect Driver - starting communications with the meter failed with severe error" message, if selected. If I unplug the DTP-94, the i1D3 is assigned to meter 1, and it works fine. I am speculating that somehow Argyll still detects the DTP-94 as a valid device when it's connected, but it can't initialize it with the XRite drivers.

Yes it does, if you install the supplied drivers for this device it should work, can you try with just the DTP-94 plugged in and with the supplied drivers for that and selecting argyll from the meter list (not the dtp-94)
 
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Originally Posted by TheDac View Post

6) you CANNOT have 2 active calibration windows with the same meter selected. The original calibration window will work fine, but the second window will give you the "Incorrect Driver ..." message

Good point, I'll need to fix this for the next version.
 
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Originally Posted by TheDac View Post

7) the "Argyll Meter Property Page" screen (sensor selection screen) will default to the previously selected meter number. If you plug/unplug meters, or unplug them and then plug them in another USB port, the assigned meter number can, and most likely will, change. If you ever selected a meter higher than 1, the screen will never default back to meter 1, unless you specifically select it.

That should be fixed in the next version the who meter number thing will be hidden from you.
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10) with the i1D3, if you get the message "Meter is in incorrect position", it means that the cap is on the lens. You need to open it up before you take any readings

Good to know thanks.

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post #184 of 4098 Old 03-03-2012, 02:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluescale View Post

That's the display I have, and any readings at 40 IRE and below are completely unstable. My theory is the speed of the display3 coupled with dithering on the plasma is causing the problem. There needs to be some sort of algorithm to compensate for that.

There are some changes to the way the integration time is calculated in the newer code from ArgyllCms, we'll see if his makes things better, if not then there are a few things we can try tweaking.

It's also worth pointing out that support for using the plasma adjustments is in the pipeline but probably won't be in the next version maybe the one after that.

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post #185 of 4098 Old 03-03-2012, 03:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnAd View Post

There are some changes to the way the integration time is calculated in the newer code from ArgyllCms, we'll see if his makes things better, if not then there are a few things we can try tweaking.

It's also worth pointing out that support for using the plasma adjustments is in the pipeline but probably won't be in the next version maybe the one after that.

John

That's good to know, thanks.
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post #186 of 4098 Old 03-03-2012, 08:44 AM
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glad to see this project resurrected.

the i1d2 needs to use the argyl driver, install it from device manager.

the CIE diagram in Windows 7 64bit still has no secondary reference points.

thanks John
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post #187 of 4098 Old 03-03-2012, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by vega509 View Post

the i1d2 needs to use the argyl driver, install it from device manager.

Thanks for that, I've been testing with the i1d2 as I 've got a few duff ones lying about the place, there is a chance that it will work with the filter libusb drivers which will mean that you can keep the x-rite driver but still use the argyll code, it needs abit mores testing though.


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the CIE diagram in Windows 7 64bit still has no secondary reference points.

Give me a chance

It's on the list....

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post #188 of 4098 Old 03-03-2012, 03:58 PM
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How am I supposed to install the included drivers? Do I need to replace windows drivers installed by x-rite with them? (i.e update drivers under device manager).

If so, does it mean the x-rite applications may no longer work correctly? Such as EyeOne Match?

I assume ArgyllCms doesn't work the same way as the old how HCFR originally access the device, just via a .dll dropped in the main dir?

Thanks

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post #189 of 4098 Old 03-04-2012, 12:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 703 View Post

How am I supposed to install the included drivers? Do I need to replace windows drivers installed by x-rite with them? (i.e update drivers under device manager).

If so, does it mean the x-rite applications may no longer work correctly? Such as EyeOne Match?

I assume ArgyllCms doesn't work the same way as the old how HCFR originally access the device, just via a .dll dropped in the main dir?

Thanks

For most meters at the moment yes you'll have to replace the drivers, the i1d3 is the main exception. And as you point out the x-rite software won't work until you put the x-rite drivers back again. There are a couple of ways I'm looking at to avoid this driver dance but they are not ready yet.

As a small bonus you can now try out argyllcms for display profiling as we share drivers with that.

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post #190 of 4098 Old 03-04-2012, 12:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnAd View Post


For most meters at the moment yes you'll have to replace the drivers, the i1d3 is the main exception. And as you point out the x-rite software won't work until you put the x-rite drivers back again. There are a couple of ways I'm looking at to avoid this driver dance but they are not ready yet.

As a small bonus you can now try out argyllcms for display profiling as we share drivers with that.

John

Thanks for re-starting this. I have got my i1D2 responding in your new version. It has a few things different to how I recall the hcfr got left, but maybe I got left behind at the very end. (eg patterns available via tabs).

I didn't have time yesterday, but if I do a Plasma calibration, is the software going to give me good results? As in, no worse than old hcfr in its processing/calculations?

I don't want to make changes which make it worse, though I can verify the software etc without making changes - it depends on your software status.
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post #191 of 4098 Old 03-04-2012, 05:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Doing some testing today, a couple of quick notes on installation (32 bit x86 winxp).

- i1pro argyll driver installed with no problems

- D2 was missing the Wincoinstall*.dlls so I had to install those from my argyll package

- Both i1pro and D2 argyll devices were recognized by HCFR and readings from both are stable.

- Can't tell if hi-res mode on i1pro is working (spectrum graph is blank)

- Every time I start a measure there is a pop-up "save calibration data". I don't recall this as normal, can I turn it off?

- If I start a continuous measures with one probe I can't stop it with the run/stop button. This button stays as green right arrow. I can press it again and it will restart the measures or I can switch to the other probe and start measures there.

Will do some profiling on my plasma in a bit.

Thanks for the new toy!
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post #192 of 4098 Old 03-04-2012, 06:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wl1 View Post

I didn't have time yesterday, but if I do a Plasma calibration, is the software going to give me good results? As in, no worse than old hcfr in its processing/calculations?

It should behave the same at the previous versions n, the options to average lots of reading have gone but I'd expect the numbers returned from the meter to be the same.

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post #193 of 4098 Old 03-04-2012, 06:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

Doing some testing today, a couple of quick notes on installation (32 bit x86 winxp).

- i1pro argyll driver installed with no problems

Great, thanks for the i1pro report

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- D2 was missing the Wincoinstall*.dlls so I had to install those from my argyll package

Yes missed those in the installer, thanks for spotting that.

- Both i1pro and D2 argyll devices were recognized by HCFR and readings from both are stable.

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- Can't tell if hi-res mode on i1pro is working (spectrum graph is blank)

Probably doesn't make much difference without the spectrum mode, that will be in probably the next but one release.

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- Every time I start a measure there is a pop-up "save calibration data". I don't recall this as normal, can I turn it off?

Yes, probably something odd in the way I set up the new meter, I'll look into it.

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- If I start a continuous measures with one probe I can't stop it with the run/stop button. This button stays as green right arrow. I can press it again and it will restart the measures or I can switch to the other probe and start measures there.

Hmmm, not seen this, probably some odd issue with multiple meters, I'll see if I can reproduce.

Thanks

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post #194 of 4098 Old 03-04-2012, 07:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks John. So far both meters are working great on argyll drivers with HCFR. I ran the i1pro through grayscale and primaries/secondaries on my plasma and results are the same as the x-rite drivers. Profiling the D2 against the i1pro also works fine. The hi-res switch is working as well, I measure a consistent deltaE shift of 2.3-2.5 for red and and 1-1.2 for green. This is the same thing I measure using the argyll package in hi-res mode.

Two things that are different with these drivers:

1. i1pro 0%-10% stimulus readings are more stable than the x-rite drivers. Are integration times longer?

2. The D2 will not return readings below 0.028 ftL. Below that it returns nothing so I'm guessing there is a math precision problem. The x-rite drivers will return values down to 0.005 ftL.

The previous problem I mentioned about not being able to stop free measures was user error. I didn't have the correct window focus...

edit: The D2 problem also appears using spotread.exe at the command line. If I try to read a dark pattern it returns "Spot read failed due to a communications error"
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post #195 of 4098 Old 03-04-2012, 07:48 AM
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hi zoyd,

i just bought the i3 display pro from amazon. should be able to do some testings by tues/weds.

would you suggest i install the x-rite driver or the argyll driver for the display 3?

thanks
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post #196 of 4098 Old 03-04-2012, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by smokarz View Post


would you suggest i install the x-rite driver or the argyll driver for the display 3?

stick with the x- rite one

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post #197 of 4098 Old 03-04-2012, 09:31 AM
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thanks John.

i looked at the x-rite website but didn't see a download for device driver.

i guess i just install the driver that would come with the packaged cd?
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post #198 of 4098 Old 03-04-2012, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smokarz View Post

thanks John.

i looked at the x-rite website but didn't see a download for device driver.

i guess i just install the driver that would come with the packaged cd?

That's what I did. Then the software prompted me to install an update. You only need to do the update if you want to use the profiler on yor computer monitor.
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post #199 of 4098 Old 03-04-2012, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wl1 View Post

Thanks for re-starting this. I have got my i1D2 responding in your new version. It has a few things different to how I recall the hcfr got left, but maybe I got left behind at the very end. (eg patterns available via tabs).

I didn't have time yesterday, but if I do a Plasma calibration, is the software going to give me good results? As in, no worse than old hcfr in its processing/calculations?

I don't want to make changes which make it worse, though I can verify the software etc without making changes - it depends on your software status.

With the i1D2, I get very stable results on my plasma.
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post #200 of 4098 Old 03-04-2012, 11:34 AM - Thread Starter
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@John: I found the problem with low level light readings and the D2. Apparently there is a timeout problem at low levels with some versions of libusb. I reinstalled the one packaged with argyll all is well. (see this)
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post #201 of 4098 Old 03-04-2012, 07:23 PM
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I have an old DTP-94 and can report that it worked correctly and stably after switching over to the Argyll drivers. The lowest reading (0-20 IRE) might be slightly different, but I noticed that it was reading faster than the old version with X-rite drivers and the "longer reads for low IRE" box checked. I too am considering a new i1Display3 or Spyder 4 depending on reviews on the Spyder 4.
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post #202 of 4098 Old 03-04-2012, 07:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluescale View Post

That's what I did. Then the software prompted me to install an update. You only need to do the update if you want to use the profiler on yor computer monitor.

I'm very new at this but thought this might be a good time to comment on a few items I noticed early on with my i1Display Pro... or whatever the proper name is... EODIS3, i1Display3, i1D3, iD3, iPro3

I did originally install X-rite i1Profiler but when the old version of ColorHCFR didn't recognize the meter, I uninstalled everything and planned to return the meter. Then I found this thread.

I installed the new version of HCFR and it recognized the meter without reinstalling i1Profiler so I'm assuming nothing else needs installed.

I'm running Windows 7 64-bit. My understanding is the iD3 uses the HID driver interface built into Windows and therefore doesn't need any other driver. What's unusual is other devices which use the HID driver (i.e. mouse) show up in Device Manager, but the iD3 doesn't.

However, the iD3 does show up under Devices and Printers. When I connect the meter it shows up under Unspecified as an i1Display 3.

As far as the meter working I haven't actually started a calibration as I'm still reading, so I can only give my official unprofessional explanation on how it appears to "work"... if I click on the green arrow, numbers start showing up in the program. Yes, that's as far as I got
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post #203 of 4098 Old 03-04-2012, 11:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 65Cobra427SC View Post

As far as the meter working I haven't actually started a calibration as I'm still reading, so I can only give my official unprofessional explanation on how it appears to "work"... if I click on the green arrow, numbers start showing up in the program. Yes, that's as far as I got

When you get around to doing your calibration, please let us know what type of TV you're calibrating on, and how it worked out.
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post #204 of 4098 Old 03-05-2012, 12:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

@John: I found the problem with low level light readings and the D2. Apparently there is a timeout problem at low levels with some versions of libusb. I reinstalled the one packaged with argyll all is well. (see this)

That's very odd, the drivers I ship were built from the the argyll 1.3.5 code. Are those the ones you installed?

The timeout issue is certainly possible but I'll be a bit cross if the source doesn't match the driver.

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post #205 of 4098 Old 03-05-2012, 01:06 AM
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I'm running Windows 7 64-bit.

Thanks, a wide a variety of os versions and bitness is good. The drivers vary by each of these so it's good to get an dunderatsnding of what works and what doesn't.

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post #206 of 4098 Old 03-05-2012, 01:20 AM
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What I've found is that the scroll bar doesn't really scroll down to the last row of the table that shows "greyscale" and "primaries / secondaries" etc.

E.g. can't see delta luma in the primary/sec table.

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post #207 of 4098 Old 03-05-2012, 01:52 AM
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Originally Posted by 703 View Post

What I've found is that the scroll bar doesn't really scroll down to the last row of the table that shows "greyscale" and "primaries / secondaries" etc.

E.g. can't see delta luma in the primary/sec table.

Yep, drives me mad too it's on the list, I am focussing in driver issues for now though so won't get fixed in the next version but probably the one after that.

John

My Company - Upsilon Software
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post #208 of 4098 Old 03-05-2012, 02:00 AM
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That's very odd, the drivers I ship were built from the the argyll 1.3.5 code. Are those the ones you installed?

The timeout issue is certainly possible but I'll be a bit cross if the source doesn't match the driver.

John

Even odder, the d2 doesn't use the libusb driver but uses the winusb code, so reinstalling the driver should have had no effect.

What does it say in device manager if you ask for driver details from the driver tab of properties?

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post #209 of 4098 Old 03-05-2012, 04:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnAd View Post

Even odder, the d2 doesn't use the libusb driver but uses the winusb code, so reinstalling the driver should have had no effect.

What does it say in device manager if you ask for driver details from the driver tab of properties?

John

I think maybe it's not a driver issue but due to running this inside a vbox. It has worked a few times but just randomly and not associated with any particular driver. The error from argyll debug output when measuring dark patches is:

Code:
Actual integration time = 1000000 clocks
i1disp: Sending cmd 14 args '00 01 00' response '00 00' ICOM err 0x0
i1disp: Sending cmd 14 args '00 01 01' response '01 00' ICOM err 0x0
i1disp: Sending cmd 14 args '00 01 02' response '02 00' ICOM err 0x0
i1disp: Sending cmd 16 args '02 00'
i1disp: Message send failed with ICOM err 0x200


Spot read failed due to communication problem.

Driver version if I load yours is 1.0.0.1 2/27/2012
If I load from argyll distro it's 1.0.0.1 3/10/2010
see attached pic for associated files that are used
LL
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post #210 of 4098 Old 03-05-2012, 06:06 AM
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Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

I think maybe it's not a driver issue but due to running this inside a vbox.

I do a lot of my work inside vboxes but not on XP, I think I can reproduce the windows 7 version of this which is that the measurement just hangs and doesn't timeout which may be something related to priviledges. Anyway am getting side tracked a bit on this issue. I seem to get it when at the start of the reading there is a bit of light and then none.

By the way thanks for the other info.

I'll test later on xp in a vbox and see if I can get that error.

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