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post #2341 of 6174 Old 09-27-2013, 06:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

select "MCD" in the dropdown box preferences->references. Looks like some of the labels on the CIE chart for the measurement points still need fixing but dEs and target labels should be correct. Regarding the saturation target fix, I've updated that in the code but not uploaded an exe yet.

Yes I selected MCD and like I wrote it shows everything just fine when run patterns while continuous measure but when run that ColorChecker 24 values measure it shows at CIE diagram also names wrong as you wrote but also it don´t show some points at all. If I highlight e.g. "Light skin" from chart and when go to CIE it points "Purplish blue", so I suppose there´s still something to do wink.gif
dE´s seem fine from Dark Skin to Cyan (0.3 - 4.3) but Gray 35 to White dE´s are 21.5 to 42.8 confused.gif
Used 100A100S for primaries and also tried use white when it asks white when run ColorChecker but no success.



However thanks for great work.
I´ll use ColorChecker when you get next final release and things fixed for that smile.gif
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post #2342 of 6174 Old 09-27-2013, 02:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Make73 View Post


However thanks for great work.
I´ll use ColorChecker when you get next final release and things fixed for that smile.gif

Thanks, new version will be released soon, bug stomping fest in progress.
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post #2343 of 6174 Old 09-29-2013, 10:44 PM
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Took another crack at it.

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post #2344 of 6174 Old 10-01-2013, 04:39 AM - Thread Starter
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New release version 3.0.5.0

Modifications as of 10/1/2013
-Version 3.0.5.0
-Added support for MCD disk in CC6 color space option
-Added "Use measured gamma" option to references property page. This adjusts all saturations target locations
based on the measured average gamma instead of assuming 2.22. If left unchecked the program will use
the value entered into the average gamma text box.
-Fixed some dE and delta luma calculations display for the color check patterns
-Added AXIS option to color checker, this will sweep through 8 luminance levels for each primary
color. Only active for internally generated patterns (view images).
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post #2345 of 6174 Old 10-01-2013, 06:14 AM
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Zoyd..

I installed 3.0.5 but when I clicked on help tab it still shows as 3.0.4.4 and thats with the previous version uninstalled....

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post #2346 of 6174 Old 10-01-2013, 07:25 AM - Thread Starter
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You have the new version but subversion number didn't propagate to help->about, uninstall and re-download to fix.
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post #2347 of 6174 Old 10-01-2013, 11:02 AM
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Now everything seems to be fine, thanks smile.gif

Could it be possible that ColorChecker takes Y-value from Gray Scale 100IRE instead of Primaries and secondaries white?
Sure you can hand edit that value to get correct dE´s when use HDTV REC 709 (75%) like you have to edit saturation 0% when use MCD
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post #2348 of 6174 Old 10-01-2013, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

You have the new version but subversion number didn't propagate to help->about, uninstall and re-download to fix.

Ok, its fixed after another unistall> re-install....Thanks Zoyd.

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post #2349 of 6174 Old 10-01-2013, 01:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Make73 View Post

Now everything seems to be fine, thanks smile.gif

Could it be possible that ColorChecker takes Y-value from Gray Scale 100IRE instead of Primaries and secondaries white?
Sure you can hand edit that value to get correct dE´s when use HDTV REC 709 (75%) like you have to edit saturation 0% when use MCD

ok, it will look for 100% grayscale value 1st and then primaries white when using the MCD disk. No version change, just new install package.
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post #2350 of 6174 Old 10-01-2013, 05:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Question for users: I've kept all of the original nomenclature even though some of it is technically not appropriate (e.g. IRE and delta luma) so as not to change too much the look of the program. Would it bother people if I updated those sorts of things with the proper terms?

delta luma -> delta luminance
IRE -> % stimulus

I also need help in maintaining the foreign language files, if you use those you will have noticed that new menu items and features are in english. If there are any volunteers I would like to update those, please send me a PM if interested. Also, the spanish language file is still in French, only the MS menu items are in spanish so that is a bigger job. Or if anyone wants to work on new language support. thx.
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post #2351 of 6174 Old 10-01-2013, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

Question for users: I've kept all of the original nomenclature even though some of it is technically not appropriate (e.g. IRE and delta luma) so as not to change too much the look of the program. Would it bother people if I updated those sorts of things with the proper terms?

delta luma -> delta luminance
IRE -> % stimulus
If it's not too much work, I for one would prefer to see the proper terms.

And I don't want to create any unnecessary work for you, so if you feel that there's no point in doing this, or it would be too hard to do, then forget about it. But is it possible to add an option to do a saturation sweep of just the primaries and secondaries? Right now, AFAICS, you can do a sweep of the primaries, color checker, all colors, or do a sweep of each individual color. And also is it possible to add a separate checkbox to display the color checker targets and saturation targets separately in the CIE chart? Again, not a big deal.

Thanks for all your work zoyd. smile.gif
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post #2352 of 6174 Old 10-01-2013, 05:58 PM
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I agree. IRE should have been hanged and quartered when analog NTSC was dumped. Both % stimulus and delta luminance makes the program more 'professional' looking. Ahem... biggrin.gif

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post #2353 of 6174 Old 10-01-2013, 09:22 PM
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Agree with Rahzel and Larry smile.gif

I still think there´s no use for saturation 0% or is there someone who really need that value?
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post #2354 of 6174 Old 10-02-2013, 01:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post


delta luma -> delta luminance
IRE -> % stimulus

Hmm. You'll have Charles Poynton on your case if you do! It's not clear what the first term is refering to, but unless you mean "delta CIE Y", don't use the term luminance. For the second, use "video signal" or "video".
See http://www.avsforum.com/t/852536/basic-guide-to-color-calibration-using-a-cms-updated-and-enhanced/1800#post_23698315
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post #2355 of 6174 Old 10-02-2013, 04:13 AM - Thread Starter
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According to his blog post the objection to luminance is in reference to a signal prior to the transfer function (and specifically the achromatic part Y'), not to the way it would be used here. delta luminance (formally luma) in HCFR is the % difference between the source and target CIE luminance, so I don't think that will be a problem.

Regarding the term stimulus I don't agree. It's a common term in the physical sciences for the application of any type of signal (optical , electrical, etc.) to any system. So when used as the description of an input signal in the calibration of any device it's perfectly appropriate. The argument is that for a particular device (video display) the term should not be used because of the close linkage with color science which uses the term to refer to stimulation of the human visual system. I do not find this argument compelling, I think both video calibration enthusiasts and color scientists can cope with the term stimulus when used in context.
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post #2356 of 6174 Old 10-02-2013, 07:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

ok, it will look for 100% grayscale value 1st and then primaries white when using the MCD disk. No version change, just new install package.

Sorry to say but with newest 3.0.5.0 and ColorChecker there´s still something wrong redface.gif
With previous 3.0.5.0 ColorChecker dE´s was correct when copied Y value from Gray Scale 100% to Primaries and secondaries White Y
Or is it caused because measuring was done with previous version?

edit:
Yes it needed re-measurement to get correct dE´s.
I suppose delta luma still uses Y from Primaries and secondaries, maby you could also change that from 100% gray scale.
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post #2357 of 6174 Old 10-02-2013, 08:40 AM - Thread Starter
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For the MCD color checker patterns the current version checks for a valid 100% gray scale measurement and use that. If it doesn't find one it will then check the white measurement from primaries/secondaries and use that instead.

Color checker measurements using the MCD from previous versions will have to be re-run in the new version to get correct dE values.
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post #2358 of 6174 Old 10-02-2013, 09:28 AM
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Hello everyone,

First of all - massive massive thanks for all of the contributions and knowledge sharing here, it is great and I am learning so so much.

I'm fairly novice at calibrating, but have so much now that I am somewhat confused.

1.) When using HCFR 3.0.5.0, should I be using the meter correction file for the iD3(plasma) AS WELL AS the spectral sample file(generic Plasma EDR). Or just one or the other?

2.) What does the "XYZ adjustment" checkbox do in the parameters section? Is this meant to checked or not? (Sorry if this is a real noob question, but I simply don't know)

Many thanks
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post #2359 of 6174 Old 10-02-2013, 12:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Just use one correction, spectral sample (EDR) is recommended if you don't have your own meter correction.

Whenever a correction is applied for the first time the XYZ adjustment is automatically checked. If you then uncheck it, the correction will be removed (so you can see the difference if you want).
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post #2360 of 6174 Old 10-02-2013, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

According to his blog post the objection to luminance is in reference to a signal prior to the transfer function (and specifically the achromatic part Y'), not to the way it would be used here. delta luminance (formally luma) in HCFR is the % difference between the source and target CIE luminance, so I don't think that will be a problem.

Regarding the term stimulus I don't agree. It's a common term in the physical sciences for the application of any type of signal (optical , electrical, etc.) to any system. So when used as the description of an input signal in the calibration of any device it's perfectly appropriate. The argument is that for a particular device (video display) the term should not be used because of the close linkage with color science which uses the term to refer to stimulation of the human visual system. I do not find this argument compelling, I think both video calibration enthusiasts and color scientists can cope with the term stimulus when used in context.


I'm glad that you said that about using the term 'stimulus.' If I had said it, I would have been deluged with adamant, condescending criticism by some non-technical members who get all their information from reading it on the internet -- and are proud and unapologetic that they do so. biggrin.gif

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post #2361 of 6174 Old 10-02-2013, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

Regarding the term stimulus I don't agree. It's a common term in the physical sciences for the application of any type of signal (optical , electrical, etc.) to any system. So when used as the description of an input signal in the calibration of any device it's perfectly appropriate.

Right, but unqualified, in a calibration context (where we are talking both about device dependent signals and photometric quantities), it is ambiguous. Many people find the area of calibration and profiling highly confusing as it is, so if there is an acceptable alternative to the ambiguous term "stimulus", it would be better to use it.
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post #2362 of 6174 Old 10-03-2013, 12:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

Just use one correction, spectral sample (EDR) is recommended if you don't have your own meter correction.

Whenever a correction is applied for the first time the XYZ adjustment is automatically checked. If you then uncheck it, the correction will be removed (so you can see the difference if you want).

Thank you very much zoyd!! I've done a recalibration last night using only the correction file for the iD3, and achieved deltaE average of less than 1, when using 20 point white balance control. The gamma in the higher end of the scale is still slightly funky, and that is mainly due to the on screen menu(when adjusting) which seems to reduce luminance. When closing the menu, the luminance jumps up straight away(in real time measuring mode). I'll just have to compensate, by adjusting, and then closing the menu, to see if I can as close as possible to the Gamma Y targets.

This weekend I will have to tackle the colors, which seems to be a bit trickier to nail down than greyscale/white balance

Thanks again zoyd smile.gif
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post #2363 of 6174 Old 10-03-2013, 03:38 AM
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I'm calibrating my JVC RS40 with HCFR and as generator I want to use Madvr.
This is the first time I use HCFR coming from Calman 4.

Measuring the whole greyscale works fine (with madvr Pattern Generator displaying the test patches automatically).
But calibrating my RS40 with Calman I would first do a continuous reading of 100% White to get the white point right (in the service menu of the projector).
In this case the CalMAN Pattern Generator would automatically display a 100% patch.

My question: Can I somehow do the same in HCFR?

Just select a single point of the greyscale (for example 100% White), madvr generator displaying the
correct test pattern automatically and then doing a continuous reading while I adjust my projectors settings until they are correct.

I tried to get this going for quite some time yesterday with no luck.
Any hint would be great!
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post #2364 of 6174 Old 10-03-2013, 04:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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My question: Can I somehow do the same in HCFR?

Not through madVR no, you can display a white patch and measure it using the internal generator (view->test colors) but that can't be piped through madVR. You could do one of two things, use argyllCMS "dispwin" with the -dmadVR swtich or use MPC to display a white pattern from an mp4 or DVD test disk.
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post #2365 of 6174 Old 10-03-2013, 06:03 AM
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I've found a bug in the newest HCFR build (don't know if it's a new one actually):

When I've taken greyscale measurements through madtpg hcfr I can't switch back to dvd manual. The program says it has switched, but as soon as I try to measure something it tries to connect to madtpg and gives an error message if it's not running. Opening a new calibration or restarting the program doesn't help. The only possibility to switch back to dvd manual is to delete the lines
Code:
[GDIGenerator]
DisplayMode=2
from the colorhcfr.ini.

Reinstalling didn't fix the problem either, as soon as I use madtpg I can't switch back.
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post #2366 of 6174 Old 10-03-2013, 07:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks yes, I found that one myself a couple of days ago so it's on the list. You can avoid by selecting the gdi option in view images prior to switching to manual DVD mode
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post #2367 of 6174 Old 10-03-2013, 07:29 AM
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Alright thanks, that certainly makes it easier.

With the GDI generator, can I display patches to avoid having to use an external source when manually calibrating? So far I've been able to for example display a grey patch, but I have no idea which stimulus % it is and I can't change it.
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post #2368 of 6174 Old 10-03-2013, 11:27 AM
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I have a question with the new versions. I have an X-Rite i1DisplayPro colorimeter. When I create a new measurement with this meter, I am presented with both meter correction file (first dialog box) and then later with the previous spectral correction files (idss). Should I be using both or one of the other?

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post #2369 of 6174 Old 10-03-2013, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

Just use one correction, spectral sample (EDR) is recommended if you don't have your own meter correction.

Whenever a correction is applied for the first time the XYZ adjustment is automatically checked. If you then uncheck it, the correction will be removed (so you can see the difference if you want).
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post #2370 of 6174 Old 10-03-2013, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dschlic1 View Post

I have a question with the new versions. I have an X-Rite i1DisplayPro colorimeter. When I create a new measurement with this meter, I am presented with both meter correction file (first dialog box) and then later with the previous spectral correction files (idss). Should I be using both or one of the other?

Only use the spectral sample. The correction file from the previous dialog box has to be tailored to your specific meter.
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