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post #211 of 4180 Old 03-05-2012, 07:12 AM
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Hoping to get a chance to run through a calibration tonight, on my Pioneer Kuro

The "Dummies Guide" says

"Ensure that the "Calibration Mode" is set to "LCD" for all types of display types except for the following situations:
  • Users with Plasma displays using an Eye-One sensor should select "Plasma". There is no "Plasma" option for Spyder2 users - use "LCD" instead. "
Is Plasma an option in this HCFR version?
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post #212 of 4180 Old 03-05-2012, 07:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wl1 View Post

Is Plasma an option in this HCFR version?

I don't know what the plasma mode in the old HCFR did as I can't see the driver dll code, I'm not clear it did do anything unless there was a hardcoded adjustemt matrix applied. In later releases we'll be allowing adjustment files to be created and shared. So fo rth time being use lcd mode.

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post #213 of 4180 Old 03-05-2012, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluescale View Post

When you get around to doing your calibration, please let us know what type of TV you're calibrating on, and how it worked out.

I have a Panasonic TC-P60ST30 60" Plasma. I could calibrate it this week, but I'm hesitant since there isn't an option for Plasma with the i1D3 yet. I may still practice just to get used to the software and meter. But I plan to keep tabs on this thread and will post as I figure things out.
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post #214 of 4180 Old 03-05-2012, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 65Cobra427SC View Post

I have a Panasonic TC-P60ST30 60" Plasma. I could calibrate it this week, but I'm hesitant since there isn't an option for Plasma with the i1D3 yet. I may still practice just to get used to the software and meter. But I plan to keep tabs on this thread and will post as I figure things out.

I have a 65ST30, and the measured values definitely jumped around like crazy when I got to 50ire. Still, I'd recommend doing a test run, just to see what happens. You don't have to make any changes.
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post #215 of 4180 Old 03-05-2012, 11:26 AM
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I have just run through the first (of no doubt many) calibrations.

I used Win 7 64 bit, my i1Display2, with HCFR version 3.0.0.0 installed to
C:\\Program Files (x86)\\HCFR Calibration
(without overwriting the old 2.1 installation at C:\\Program Files (x86)\\ColorHCFR).

I followed the driver instructions at http://sourceforge.net/p/hcfr/wiki/D...0Instructions/
I quickly checked and I was getting some measurements on the meter.
I then decided to open up an old file that the 2.1 software had generated, to duplicate the text comments. It looks like backward compatibility is not working see error unexpected file format, and refusal to open old files.

I then started the older version of the software to check the file, and it opened OK. I then started to get a couple of errors, when reverting back to new HCFR. See attached.
I cleared these by exiting both HCFR programs, and starting again.

I have since checked the log and it says
Argyll Error - Opening USB port 'usb:/bus0/dev1/ (GretagMacbeth i1 Display)' config 1 failed (Access denied (insufficient permissions)) (Permissions ?)
All looked good after this, and I went and did a before capture of my Pioneer Kuro with the new software (set as LCD), results attached.

I have not made any changes based on these readings, as I ran out of time. I cannot easily compare my last calibration to these readings and my meter is limited to a delta of 4 anyway. I would have left the previous calibration with readings of delta lower than 4 though. But, within these limitations, it went very well.

I also got an error of Attempted an unsupported operation when accessing menu Help> About HCFR.
But all looking good to me.

A couple of questions though,
(i) How much do Plasmas drift over time?
(ii) Are the worse delta error purely down to my meter?
(iii) How much work has anyone done on Repeatability and Reproducibility of a calibration process?



Wayne.
LL
LL
LL
LL

 

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post #216 of 4180 Old 03-05-2012, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 65Cobra427SC View Post

but I'm hesitant since there isn't an option for Plasma with the i1D3 yet.

I'd guess it's going to take until at least April to get the whole thing running smoothly, at this stage it's really only for those who love to play with new toys

But yes worth getting some practice in with the software, and start collecting the UI bugs.

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post #217 of 4180 Old 03-05-2012, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wl1 View Post

I have just run through the first (of no doubt many) calibrations.

Yes, to reiterate,I hope I've not given the impression that this is polished and ready for wide use yet, at this stage we're really only seeing what meters we can talk to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wl1 View Post

It looks like backward compatibility is not working - see error - unexpected file format, and refusal to open old files.

Ouch, that's expected to work, so send me the old file and I'll if I can work out where I've screwed up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wl1 View Post

Argyll Error - Opening USB port 'usb:/bus0/dev1/ (GretagMacbeth i1 Display)' config 1 failed (Access denied (insufficient permissions)) (Permissions ?)

That's odd, I've seen this with the driver disabled and with multiple copies of hcfr running, was either possible?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wl1 View Post

I also got an error of Attempted an unsupported operation when accessing menu Help> About HCFR.

That's odd too, I'll make sure to keep testing that.

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post #218 of 4180 Old 03-05-2012, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnAd View Post
Yes, to reiterate,I hope I've not given the impression that this is polished and ready for wide use yet, at this stage we're really only seeing what meters we can talk to.


Ouch, that's expected to work, so send me the old file and I'll if I can work out where I've screwed up.


That's odd, I've seen this with the driver disabled and with multiple copies of hcfr running, was either possible?


That's odd too, I'll make sure to keep testing that.

John
I know this is beta - hence my posting to support (in my limited way).
Old file attached.
Yes - I had both old and new hcfr running at same time.
I only found the "Help" error, to make sure I was running latest version. But it does it all the time.

 

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post #219 of 4180 Old 03-05-2012, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wl1 View Post

I know this is beta - hence my posting to support (in my limited way).

That was more aimed at the passing observer rather than you, thanks for the very detailed report by the way, very useful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wl1 View Post

Old file attached.

Great thanks

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post #220 of 4180 Old 03-05-2012, 12:46 PM
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Thank you to all the people who created and maintained HCFR.
Wow. I have about 12 hours using v2.1.
Great program.
I downloaded the beta.
I wanted to get a feel for the program before using the beta.
Thanks again for the tool to fix the crap TV makers are selling the public with their OTB settings.
As I gain knowledge about beta, I will post.

Loving D65
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post #221 of 4180 Old 03-05-2012, 01:38 PM
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Hi John, do you think there will be a new release this week?

Waiting for i1 to arrive and figure I might install the newer version if it will be available soon.

Thanks
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post #222 of 4180 Old 03-05-2012, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smokarz View Post

Hi John, do you think there will be a new release this week?

Possibly Friday or the weekend, depends on how complex fixing the multiple meter scenarios turns out to be, I have a plan that I'm trying out but it may not work well enough.

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post #223 of 4180 Old 03-05-2012, 06:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 703 View Post

What I've found is that the scroll bar doesn't really scroll down to the last row of the table that shows "greyscale" and "primaries / secondaries" etc.

E.g. can't see delta luma in the primary/sec table.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnAd View Post

Yep, drives me mad too it's on the list, I am focussing in driver issues for now though so won't get fixed in the next version but probably the one after that.

John

There are 2 workarounds for the scroll bar/hidden rows (see attached pic):
1. (Easier) Click the down arrow next to the Editable Data box until all the rows are displayed.
2. You can resize each row like you would in Excel by clicking and dragging the row lines in the leftmost column until everything fits.

Unfortunately it doesn't save these changes so you have to do it everytime you create or open a chc file.

Also, I ran a quick test on my PC monitor using the Argyll drivers and an original Monaco Optix (not the DTP94, the C5-ish? model) and it worked. I'll provide more detail when I have time to measure my plasma.
LL
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post #224 of 4180 Old 03-05-2012, 06:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdbimmer View Post

There are 2 workarounds for the scroll bar/hidden rows (see attached pic):
1. (Easier) Click the down arrow next to the Editable Data box until all the rows are displayed.
2. You can resize each row like you would in Excel by clicking and dragging the row lines in the leftmost column until everything fits.

Unfortunately it doesn't save these changes so you have to do it everytime you create or open a chc file.

Also, I ran a quick test on my PC monitor using the Argyll drivers and an original Monaco Optix (not the DTP94, the C5-ish? model) and it worked. I'll provide more detail when I have time to measure my plasma.

wow, if I am reading that pic right, that is a perfect gray scale.
what monitor is it?

Loving D65
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post #225 of 4180 Old 03-05-2012, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CalWldLif View Post

wow, if I am reading that pic right, that is a perfect gray scale.
what monitor is it?

Pioneer KRP-500M calibrated with a DTP94 profiled with my i1Pro. (the pic is not from my HCFR Fork test).
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post #226 of 4180 Old 03-05-2012, 07:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluescale View Post

I have a 65ST30, and the measured values definitely jumped around like crazy when I got to 50ire. Still, I'd recommend doing a test run, just to see what happens. You don't have to make any changes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnAd View Post

But yes worth getting some practice in with the software, and start collecting the UI bugs.

I made my first (partial) test run and I'm embarrassed to say the Calibration for Dummies guide threw me a couple times but I stuck with it and understand better.

My setup: Panasonic P60ST30 and i1Display Pro (i1D3)

Preparation was fairly easy but I wasn't sure if I was supposed to calibrate my meter or not... I tried, but nothing happened when I clicked on the "Calibrate Meter" button so I moved on.

I clicked on the Green Arrow and the meter began taking readings, although I'm not exactly sure what I was supposed to do at that point. I spent several minutes trying to see if putting the meter in a different location made a difference but the only thing I noticed, aside from the numbers constantly changing, is some numbers seemed to slowly decrease as time went on.

Finally I used the DVE HD Disc to run the Grey Scale test and made it through all 10 screens, and that's pretty much where I stopped.

Now that I have a better idea, I'll read the guide again and likely make a short list of instructions specific to my setup. I'd be happy to post whatever numbers or graphs you want... just let me know.
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post #227 of 4180 Old 03-05-2012, 08:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 65Cobra427SC View Post

Preparation was fairly easy but I wasn't sure if I was supposed to calibrate my meter or not... I tried, but nothing happened when I clicked on the "Calibrate Meter" button so I moved on.

The Display 3 does not require calibration.
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post #228 of 4180 Old 03-05-2012, 11:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluescale View Post


The Display 3 does not require calibration.

I forgot to mention in my previous post, I pressed the calibrate button, but nothing seemed to happen (i1Display2). The old process would ask for a calibration prior to running the first greyscale. And involve a couple of dialogue boxes with confirmations.
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post #229 of 4180 Old 03-06-2012, 12:23 AM
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I tested the HCFR DIY V5.1 sensor and it selects, connects, and comms AOK. Win 7/64.

Thanks!
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post #230 of 4180 Old 03-06-2012, 12:47 AM
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Hi John,

Thanks for all the great work! I've been using ColorHCFR for quite a while and am thrilled to be able to use it with the new i1d3.

A couple notes on using HCFR with the i1d3 in case it's of any use:

First, I have a Samsung plasma and can also confirm the erratic readings starting at 50 IRE downward. I noticed you mentioned before that the plasma issue might be fixed in the latest Argyll code so I grabbed the dev source from the Argyll site and compiled it. Using dispcal just as an xyY readout I can confirm that the instability at low IREs is dramatically reduced.

Second, I have always been unsure about which switch to use for a plasma, CRT or LCD, but thought the overall consensus was CRT. Is that still true with the i1 Display Pro? I know that some of the older colorimeters reportedly had issues with infrared emissions from plasmas and would over-report red in any mode, but it always seemed like CRT mode was the closest to accurate. I'm hoping the i1d3 doesn't have these issues, but in any case the ability to use edr/ccss files seems like it might mitigate the effect. On that note, I would love to see the Argyll i1d3 ccss capability integrated (which I know you had mentioned before - just thought I'd add a plus one). Hopefully someone with access to a nice spectrophotometer will post some ccss readings of a plasma to work with!

Keep up the good work!
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post #231 of 4180 Old 03-06-2012, 01:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbfunk05 View Post

Using dispcal just as an xyY readout I can confirm that the instability at low IREs is dramatically reduced.

That's good to know, thanks, the next version should havethat same code.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbfunk05 View Post

Second, I have always been unsure about which switch to use for a plasma, CRT or LCD, but thought the overall consensus was CRT. Is that still true with the i1 Display Pro? I know that some of the older colorimeters reportedly had issues with infrared emissions from plasmas and would over-report red in any mode, but it always seemed like CRT mode was the closest to accurate. I'm hoping the i1d3 doesn't have these issues, but in any case the ability to use edr/ccss files seems like it might mitigate the effect. On that note, I would love to see the Argyll i1d3 ccss capability integrated (which I know you had mentioned before - just thought I'd add a plus one). Hopefully someone with access to a nice spectrophotometer will post some ccss readings of a plasma to work with!

Yes, my plan going forward is to ship argyll's edr to ccss conversion tools and support ccss files. This should mean that you get the same results as in the x-rite world. The extra step is annoying and it would be good to ship consensus meter adjustment files with the product but I also need to avoid any ip issues.

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post #232 of 4180 Old 03-06-2012, 01:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlarsen View Post

I tested the HCFR DIY V5.1 sensor and it selects, connects, and comms AOK. Win 7/64.

Interesting, there were some comemnts in the code that the HCFR meter didn't work properly with 64 bit OSes, watch out for issues there, but it seems like it's working ....

John

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post #233 of 4180 Old 03-06-2012, 01:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wl1 View Post

I forgot to mention in my previous post, I pressed the calibrate button, but nothing seemed to happen (i1Display2). The old process would ask for a calibration prior to running the first greyscale. And involve a couple of dialogue boxes with confirmations.

Most versions of the display 2 don't need to be calibrated in LCD mode, the x-rite i1 sdk code allows calibration for all meters but for lcd mode it doesn't actually do anything. If you have one of the older version it will detect that and ask you to place the meter on a flat surface to calibrate as the old hcfr did but that only applies to easier revision of the meter.

In crt mode it isn't really a calibration just a refresh rate lock.

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post #234 of 4180 Old 03-06-2012, 01:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 65Cobra427SC View Post

Preparation was fairly easy but I wasn't sure if I was supposed to calibrate my meter or not... I tried, but nothing happened when I clicked on the "Calibrate Meter" button so I moved on.

As we get to later versions the button will be greyed for those meters that don't need calibration.

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post #235 of 4180 Old 03-06-2012, 02:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnAd View Post

Most versions of the display 2 don't need to be calibrated in LCD mode, the x-rite i1 sdk code allows calibration for all meters but for lcd mode it doesn't actually do anything. If you have one of the older version it will detect that and ask you to place the meter on a flat surface to calibrate as the old hcfr did but that only applies to earlier revision of the meter.

In crt mode it isn't really a calibration just a refresh rate lock.

John

So the new software detected my display2 as a newer version, so did not calibrate. Thanks.

I am tempted for the iD3/colormunki, I'll see how this project pans out.
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post #236 of 4180 Old 03-06-2012, 06:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluescale View Post

The Display 3 does not require calibration.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnAd View Post

As we get to later versions the button will be greyed for those meters that don't need calibration.

Thanks... good to know.
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post #237 of 4180 Old 03-06-2012, 06:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluescale View Post

I have a 65ST30, and the measured values definitely jumped around like crazy when I got to 50ire. Still, I'd recommend doing a test run, just to see what happens. You don't have to make any changes.

Not sure what you mean by jumped around like crazy. Could you explain what you're doing at that point? For example, when I measured Grey Scale I didn't see any values until I finished going through the 10 screens. The program requested each screen one at a time, and each time I was ready I clicked on the OK button and it would ask for the next screen. So the only time I saw measured values was after the measurements were done.
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post #238 of 4180 Old 03-06-2012, 07:52 AM
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JohnAd,
This is debug testing for opening older files: I wanted to test Wl1's issue with opening older files. I have no issues opening my old .chc files generated with ColorHCFR 2.1 with my DTP-94 (X-Rite drivers obviously). But when I open Wl1's .chc file included in his post, AND at the time I have NO meter plugged in, I get an error from the Argyll code "No meter found - Create Argyll instrument failed with severe error". It appears that the Argyll code really wants a meter plugged in even when I just want to view the .chc results.

GREAT WORK!!!
Testing from Win7x64
Dan
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post #239 of 4180 Old 03-06-2012, 08:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbfunk05 View Post

First, I have a Samsung plasma and can also confirm the erratic readings starting at 50 IRE downward. I noticed you mentioned before that the plasma issue might be fixed in the latest Argyll code so I grabbed the dev source from the Argyll site and compiled it. Using dispcal just as an xyY readout I can confirm that the instability at low IREs is dramatically reduced.

Awesome, thanks for looking into that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbfunk05 View Post

Second, I have always been unsure about which switch to use for a plasma, CRT or LCD, but thought the overall consensus was CRT. Is that still true with the i1 Display Pro?

On the Argyll site, they also recommend using CRT for plasma displays. They do not specify this specifically for the id3, but as a general rule. Honestly, however, my readings were identical wither I used CRT or LCD.
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post #240 of 4180 Old 03-06-2012, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dml1333 View Post

JohnAd,
This is debug testing for opening older files: I wanted to test Wl1's issue with opening older files. I have no issues opening my old .chc files generated with ColorHCFR 2.1 with my DTP-94 (X-Rite drivers obviously). But when I open Wl1's .chc file included in his post, AND at the time I have NO meter plugged in, I get an error from the Argyll code "No meter found - Create Argyll instrument failed with severe error". It appears that the Argyll code really wants a meter plugged in even when I just want to view the .chc results.

I worked around this by going into the sensor selection screen and selecting the virtual meter. Then you can click around without getting that error message.
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