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post #2611 of 4233 Old 11-11-2013, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

The next time you call me that or "little buddy" you're on my blocklist. wink.gif
Exactly which patterns are these? By GCD 10% do you mean on black background or 22% background. By 4% APL do you mean Mascior's 4% APL?

I watch alot of Gilligans Island and thats the skippers favorite line (Little Buddy),it sort of rubbed off on me...biggrin.gif

Yes,The first one is Masciors 4% APL and the recheck is GCD 10% standard on black.
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post #2612 of 4233 Old 11-11-2013, 04:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by PeterLewis View Post



Yes,The first one is Masciors 4% APL and the recheck is GCD 10% standard on black.

Ok, as to your question of which one do I believe? Both of course. They are telling you that the display behaves differently depending on the type of pattern you use to measure it. Given that the 4% APL is a better representation of how actual video material will drive your display I would go with that calibration.
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post #2613 of 4233 Old 11-11-2013, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

Ok, as to your question of which one do I believe? Both of course. They are telling you that the display behaves differently depending on the type of pattern you use to measure it. Given that the 4% APL is a better representation of how actual video material will drive your display I would go with that calibration.

OK,Thanks...
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post #2614 of 4233 Old 11-11-2013, 06:26 PM
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Rec 75% and 75% primaries is using the full triangle in this latest version? My results are going all over the place after getting good readings.

Luminance through the roof and not showing secondaries in the luminance graph even though they are set to show.
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post #2615 of 4233 Old 11-11-2013, 06:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Nothing has changed regarding those features, make sure you are in full rec709 before running any saturation sweeps.
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post #2616 of 4233 Old 11-11-2013, 08:01 PM
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Thats what it was, thanks! I was doing everything only 75%.
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post #2617 of 4233 Old 11-11-2013, 11:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Barsk

I also suggest that the combining of the refresh/no-refresh inside the ccss select list violates standard GUI "guidelines" as how GUI's should behave. Or at lest how people expects them to. A select list is for selecting ONE thing and one thing only. If you need to select two different things - make two select lists.
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This is sorted out now (re-download 3.1.0.2 if you already have it). There is still only 1 selection box containing display type but if any of the selections require a refresh mode calibration (e.g. plasma or crt edrs) it will be requested automatically, you do not have to choose refresh mode.

Great! I saw Graeme mentioning this and tryed it in 3.1.0.0 but it wasn't there then.
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Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

edit: bonus tip - If you drop a .ccmx file created via ArgyllCMS or dispCalGui into your user\APPDATA\roaming\color folder (where the ccss files live), it will become a display type choice and apply that correction automatically. Other places that ArgyllCMS looks for both .ccss and .ccmx for autoloading are user\APPDATA\roaming\ArgyllCMS and C:\PROGRAMDATA\ArgyllCMS

Great again! Now I only need a spectro...
On that subject, does anybody have a ccss/ccmx for a Panasonic plasma. In case there is any difference to the generic one we have now...? Are all plasma displays equal in respect to spectral characteristics?
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post #2618 of 4233 Old 11-11-2013, 11:54 PM
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Originally Posted by xvfx View Post

Thats what it was, thanks! I was doing everything only 75%.
We have all done those mistakes. smile.gif
Part of the learning process.
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post #2619 of 4233 Old 11-12-2013, 12:09 AM
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Why doesn't HCFR 3.1.0.0 show 0-10% WB RGB IRE/gray scale? It is not important?
I belive ChromaPure shows the 0 IRE reading in the graphs if I remember correctly. I can see the 0 IRE dot in the gamut graph in HCFR and the position of that dot is consistent over several readings with my D3. So for me showing the 0 IRE reading in the graph would be helpful. Even if I cannot adjust at 0 IRE it helps see the trend from 30, 20, 10, 0 IRE to see where the curves takes off to. It helps you balance it by allowing a bit more dE at higher IRE to counter the worst ill effects at 0 IRE. But I agree that the benefits of correcting this low is minute and barely watchable. But it does help counter tint those times you have a total black screen and not perfect blackness. That black screen often shows some tint. In my case reddish. Seeing it in the graphs helps me counter it.

If it can be enabled in the graphs I see nothing bad with it. Why should we otherwise take that reading other than for BT.1866 gamma? On flat display gamma only the 100IRE is reference so reading 0 IRE is of no particular use, especially if not shown in graphs.

If using BT.1866 gamma should not the gamma graph show all the way up to 100 IRE btw...
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post #2620 of 4233 Old 11-12-2013, 12:30 AM
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I think I've found the limits of the Samsung screen for the CMS. It's a better blue than before but I can't fully saturate it without the luminance going through the window. It's no longer looking like that purplish blue for 50 and 75%.

I've also got a screwy 50% green but if I rectify that it hurts the red points. So this will have to do. I did manage to get the 100% primary red down from 6.1 to 3.1 and Primary and secondary colors down to de 1.20.

Colour checker colours de 1.50, dark skin 0.9, light skin 1.1. Highest is 3.2 due to blue. Purplish blue 3.2 Blue Sky 3.0.

White Luminance 25.99ftL 88.93cd/m2 for fixed uplighter ambience.

I've now only got a slight red in 1% near black. 2, 3 and 4 look lovely.

Black 1% cd/m2 0.03, 0.009ftL
Black 2% cd/m2 0.04, 0.012ftL
Black 3% cd/m2 0.06, 0.017ftL
Black 4% cd/m2 0.09, 0.026ftL

I have been suffering this very mild grungy green in dark scenes due to this lack of blue like The Dark Knight Rises in the Bat-Pod tunnel scene. It's officially gone.

Another good thing is the correct gamma has finally fixed the dancing effects in some of the darker scenes for Sky HD due to their bitrate compression. Can only sometimes see some banding in dull fog/dark scenes but Blu-Ray playback there is no anomalies.

6njh.jpg
be22.jpg
j7jy.jpg
iwxd.jpg
twar.jpg
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post #2621 of 4233 Old 11-12-2013, 02:26 AM
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Although the graphs looks great what I' ve found at least on my plasma St60 is that the true challenge is to get 21 steps wb right. Very low deltaE's values on each 10 step doesn't mean that on 5 steps are the same.
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post #2622 of 4233 Old 11-12-2013, 09:44 AM
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It would be nice if newer TV's in the future introduced 21p White balance to work with 10p? it's so frustrating at times trying to work with 10 - 30 greyscale. Feels like a rubik's cube.

My 10p for the above came to:

1 2 2 -1
2 0 -1 -1
3 0 0 0
4 0 0 0
5 0 0 0
6 0 0 0
7 -1 0 0
8 -1 -1 -1
9 -1 0 0
10 -1 - 1 -1

Gamma 0
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post #2623 of 4233 Old 11-12-2013, 10:09 AM
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When I try to use my new i1 Display Pro in HCFR (v3.1.0.2) I get the following error-message: External EEPRrom checksum doesn't match

 

I don't have any X-Rite service (like iProfiler system-tray, X-Rite devicemanager etc) running. The device itself is connected and functioning properly (tested with iProfiler).

 

Any suggestions? Help would be greatly appreciated!

 

Greets,

tilman.

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post #2624 of 4233 Old 11-12-2013, 12:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw525i View Post

When I try to use my new i1 Display Pro in HCFR (v3.1.0.2) I get the following error-message: External EEPRrom checksum doesn't match

I don't have any X-Rite service (like iProfiler system-tray, X-Rite devicemanager etc) running. The device itself is connected and functioning properly (tested with iProfiler).

Any suggestions? Help would be greatly appreciated!

Greets,
tilman.

I have contacted Graeme about this error code and he needs some debug information. Can you run the command line program in the executable/tools directory called spotread.exe with just the display pro connected:

spotread -v -D8

and pm the results to me. thx
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post #2625 of 4233 Old 11-12-2013, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw525i View Post

When I try to use my new i1 Display Pro in HCFR (v3.1.0.2) I get the following error-message: External EEPRrom checksum doesn't match

I don't have any X-Rite service (like iProfiler system-tray, X-Rite devicemanager etc) running. The device itself is connected and functioning properly (tested with iProfiler).

Any suggestions? Help would be greatly appreciated!

Greets,
tilman.

You should use your factory DLL file that comes in your xrite I1 folder and copy and paste it over to the hcfr calibration folder and use that as your driver.

Thats what I have been using with my munki display...
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post #2626 of 4233 Old 11-12-2013, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by PeterLewis View Post


You should use your factory DLL file that comes in your xrite I1 folder and copy and paste it over to the hcfr calibration folder and use that as your driver.

Thats what I have been using with my munki display...


Thank you for the hint but sadly that didn't work for me.

It turned out that my device has kind of a weird EEPRom that's different from other known i1 Display Pros but the problem has already been solved by the programmers of Argyll & HCFR.

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post #2627 of 4233 Old 11-12-2013, 05:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterLewis View Post


You should use your factory DLL file that comes in your xrite I1 folder and copy and paste it over to the hcfr calibration folder and use that as your driver.

Thats what I have been using with my munki display...

That approach doesn't use the ArgyllCMS drivers. zoid will have to comment on whether that approach works at all (It's not clear to me that the API to the ColorMunki display .dll has actually been reverse engineered by anyone involved in creating HCFR).
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post #2628 of 4233 Old 11-12-2013, 05:20 PM - Thread Starter
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That approach doesn't use the ArgyllCMS drivers. zoid will have to comment on whether that approach works at all (It's not clear to me that the API to the ColorMunki display .dll has actually been reverse engineered by anyone involved in creating HCFR).

No, the D3 API was not reversed, only some of the probes prior to it, and HCFR no longer includes that code either. Clean and pure Argyll driven. smile.gif
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post #2629 of 4233 Old 11-12-2013, 05:28 PM
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zoyd, before I forget yet again, is it possible to restore the black screen option (DVD Images) but in the preferences with pop-up dialog when doing sweeps?
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post #2630 of 4233 Old 11-12-2013, 05:38 PM
 
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I wanted to do the right thing and not start a new thread, so I am posting here!

Below are my HCFR 3.1.0.2 results after calibration of a Samsung LN40B550 S-PVA LCD HDTV from 2009, using X-Rite i1Display Pro. I use my HDTV for PC gaming and media. Everything is set to 0-255 range, no black crushes, no white clipping, eye-checked black levels. I had to use separate calibration adjustments for 23Hz and 60Hz to get accurate results with both refresh rates.

Please, critique! I spent days trying to get the color space as accurate as I could and I am not sure if I succeeded! I need some feedback! Would you say its well-calibrated or just generally-calibrated? I don't have PRE-calibration results, but they were terribly inaccurate!

Display Calibration.zip 6k .zip file









Faces seem to have more pink/red in them than they should. Don't Samsung TVs have problems with reds in LCDs? They provide Flash Tone controls that turn pink faces into more natural orange-ish faces, but that screws up red color space saturation. Is there a way to get rid of the pink faces, but preserve accurate color space saturations and hues?

What are your recommendations? I use MPC-HC, LAV Video Decoder, and madVR to watch mostly h.264 HD content. I set madVR to use the best quality settings (3-tap Jinc for upscaling). Do I need to further calibrate madVR settings to achieve the best results when watching media?


Big THANKS to all you guys and HCFR developers! You are doing such an awesome job supporting DIY home calibration software and community!
Attached Files
File Type: zip Display Calibration.zip (5.8 KB, 4 views)
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post #2631 of 4233 Old 11-12-2013, 05:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw525i View Post


Thank you for the hint but sadly that didn't work for me.
It turned out that my device has kind of a weird EEPRom that's different from other known i1 Display Pros but the problem has already been solved by the programmers of Argyll & HCFR.

Try this build, just drop the executable into your current directory.


ColorHCFR_d3162beta.zip 1991k .zip file
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File Type: zip ColorHCFR_d3162beta.zip (1.94 MB, 11 views)
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post #2632 of 4233 Old 11-12-2013, 06:17 PM
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Wow, works like a charm!

 

 

 

Thanks a lot for that superb support (to both, graeme and zoyd). :) 

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post #2633 of 4233 Old 11-12-2013, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

No, the D3 API was not reversed, only some of the probes prior to it, and HCFR no longer includes that code either. Clean and pure Argyll driven. smile.gif

So my munki is not using the factory DLL file that has been in the HCFR folder for sometime?

When I plugged my meter in after installing 3.1.0.0 it just worked,shouldnt it had me connect to the new argyll drivers instead of using the munki dll file?
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post #2634 of 4233 Old 11-12-2013, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterLewis View Post


So my munki is not using the factory DLL file that has been in the HCFR folder for sometime?

When I plugged my meter in after installing 3.1.0.0 it just worked,shouldnt it had me connect to the new argyll drivers instead of using the munki dll file?

The ColorMunki Display is HID class, so no ArgyllCMS/libusb-win32.sys driver is needed.
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post #2635 of 4233 Old 11-13-2013, 12:42 AM
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Originally Posted by MonarchX View Post

I wanted to do the right thing and not start a new thread, so I am posting here!

Below are my HCFR 3.1.0.2 results after calibration of a Samsung LN40B550 S-PVA LCD HDTV from 2009, using X-Rite i1Display Pro. I use my HDTV for PC gaming and media. Everything is set to 0-255 range, no black crushes, no white clipping, eye-checked black levels. I had to use separate calibration adjustments for 23Hz and 60Hz to get accurate results with both refresh rates.
The images look Ok. Color space is a little off, but probably not enough to cause problems. However to judge the colors you need to look at the dE values for primaries/secondaries and also for saturation sweeps from 0-100% saturation. Preferable at different intensities. Problems can arise hugely in some intensities or saturation levels if your TV is not responding linearly to the stimuli. This is the case with my Panasonic VT30. In that case if there are nonlinearities you need to understand them (by doing those sweeps at different intensities and saturations). After that you can try to find a compromise by targeting at the "middle" of the working range where a median value is found. Often calibrating at 75% Amplituide/75% Saturation is a good compromise.

Just looking at pretty graphs that only show a specific working condition for the display (often at 100% intensity) does not tell you the whole story. I learned this the hard way. Had a perfect calibration - looked awful in reality, but that is plasma. You should have less trouble in LCD. But this is also a rather old TV you have. Much has been improved over the years.

Another BIG influence is the HTPC. There is color handling in Windows and there may be specific color handling in the graphics drivers and there may or may not be color handling in the video renderers and decoders. There are so many factors that is it hard to know for SURE that everything in the HTPC is acting transparently. You may have one result when using the HCFR internal signal generator and another when playing back in your media player because some color handling is taking place that you are not aware of. There are loads of threads covering HTPC issues with more information on that.

I suggest calibrating from a BD with pattern disks and then proofing your display from BD with reference material that you are familiar with how they should look. If they are Ok then try playback in the HTPC. If they do not look the same then you know you have some rendering issues in your HTPC affecting color.
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post #2636 of 4233 Old 11-13-2013, 01:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterLewis View Post

So my munki is not using the factory DLL file that has been in the HCFR folder for sometime?

When I plugged my meter in after installing 3.1.0.0 it just worked,shouldnt it had me connect to the new argyll drivers instead of using the munki dll file?


no, you are confusing usb driver with meter driver. The D3 and munki display use the windows HID (human interface driver) to talk over USB with applications. Both xrite and Argyll access the instrument through that driver, no installation is needed since it's part of the windows environment already. This means you can run i1profiler or HCFR without switching usb drivers (this is not the case for the i1pro or munki photo). So once connected xrite uses it's meter.dll file to operate the probe and HCFR uses Argyll's instlib (instrument library) to operate it. So HCFR has never used the xrite .dll file, ever.
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post #2637 of 4233 Old 11-13-2013, 01:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonarchX View Post


What are your recommendations? I use MPC-HC, LAV Video Decoder, and madVR to watch mostly h.264 HD content. I set madVR to use the best quality settings (3-tap Jinc for upscaling). Do I need to further calibrate madVR settings to achieve the best results when watching media?


Big THANKS to all you guys and HCFR developers! You are doing such an awesome job supporting DIY home calibration software and community!

Thanks and nice job. I do not see from the graphs any obvious improvements that could be made, it looks like you have a good handle on optimizing the display controls. How to handle any remaining errors detected visually (if possible) would require someone more familiar with your particular display to see if there are any display-specific recommendations. Remember too that not all people see colors exactly the same. Probes are calibrated to produce readings that satisfy a "standard observer" which represents an average human visual response and you may or may not fall close to this average response.

Regarding further improvement on the HTPC, you can correct all of your gamut colors to rec.709 (or any other colorspace within your display's gamut) using a 3DLUT.

I would also follow Barsk's advice and at least verify with a few measurements that DVD generated patterns measure the same (with displays controls in their current position) as HCFR generated patterns on the PC. This will tell you if there are any gotcha's regarding video card set-up.
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post #2638 of 4233 Old 11-13-2013, 07:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xvfx View Post

zoyd, before I forget yet again, is it possible to restore the black screen option (DVD Images) but in the preferences with pop-up dialog when doing sweeps?

You can set screen blanking on by doing measures->generator->configure or just click "DVD Manual" in the generator box and the same configuration box will pop-up.
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post #2639 of 4233 Old 11-13-2013, 09:40 AM
 
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Could you link me to a guide on 1D LUT vs. 3D LUT? It is awfully confusing to me - I need simple terms. I thought that the whole idea of D65 REC. 709 standard was that it was a standard to make all displays look the same so that you can view the image in its original form. I can correct all of my color spaces with software without having to use 3D LUT because everything I have done now was through hardware. What I can't figure out is whether there is a difference between theoretical 100% perfectly accurate calibration using 1D LUT and theoretical 100% perfectly accurate calibration using 3D LUT? A standard is a standard.. or not?
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post #2640 of 4233 Old 11-13-2013, 10:14 AM
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Look at the lightspace thread, or the links in the zoyd signature or this great link from Ted's lightspace calibration disk

http://www.displaycalibrations.com/cube_comparisons.html
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