HCFR - Open source projector and display calibration software - Page 97 - AVS Forum
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post #2881 of 4719 Old 12-26-2013, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by talkron View Post

after uninstalling x-rite software i was able use HCFR with munki display without problems, except one slightly annoying thing: when i choose continuous measuring the monitor went black and to gain access i needed to push ctr alt delete...


Thats happened to me before when I have had other browsers and or just finished doing other things before starting up HCFR.

The best thing to do when your going to use HCFR is just use it upon starting your pc with nothing else going on.

Or if you are having things going on just close everything down and restart your pc so HCFR has full access.

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post #2882 of 4719 Old 12-28-2013, 07:48 AM
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Using HCFR 3.1.0.4

Loving it, especially the ease with which my DT-94 and i1 pro installed, and the fact that the same driver works in argyll smile.gif

Just did a series of calibrations, and noticed that my delta Es were super low (averaged under 0.5 across grayscale). I had chosen the "recommended" delta E formula, and I assumed this would be CIE 2000, but when I looked at the results carefully, it said it was using CIE76(uv).

Was it your intention to recommend CIE76 for grayscale?
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post #2883 of 4719 Old 12-28-2013, 09:46 AM
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You're kidding... The default settings are wrong?
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post #2884 of 4719 Old 12-28-2013, 10:50 AM - Thread Starter
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CIE76 is recommended for grayscale tuning for historical consistency and the u'v' formula is more sensitive with JNDs about 2.5 This makes tweaking a little easier. For final assessment and cross-comparison with other tools you should use dE00
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post #2885 of 4719 Old 12-28-2013, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

CIE76 is recommended for grayscale tuning for historical consistency and the u'v' formula is more sensitive with JNDs about 2.5 This makes tweaking a little easier. For final assessment and cross-comparison with other tools you should use dE00
JNDs?
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post #2886 of 4719 Old 12-28-2013, 10:59 AM
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Just noticiable difference
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post #2887 of 4719 Old 12-28-2013, 11:00 AM
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post #2888 of 4719 Old 12-28-2013, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

CIE76 is recommended for grayscale tuning for historical consistency and the u'v' formula is more sensitive with JNDs about 2.5 This makes tweaking a little easier. For final assessment and cross-comparison with other tools you should use dE00

understood, this is actually timely. As I was doing the white point balance of my CRT, I would sometimes have to figure out which compromise to choose between two pairs of xy values that weren't precisely on target. I used the editable table in HCFR and used whichever pair gave the lower delta E smile.gif
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post #2889 of 4719 Old 12-30-2013, 08:29 AM
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Not sure if this has been covered elsewhere but haven't had any luck finding an answer yet so here goes:

I've used 10 point to get RBG levels tight at 100% thus I have gotten just about all (10% thru 90%) my dE's to be under 3, which sounds great. However, my luminance is way too high and (thus?) my gamma is way too low. I'm getting an average gamma of 1.7. I think this has (or will) hurt my ability to get my colors right, especially the Y's of my colors.

But I can't seem to figure out how to influence my luminance/gamma. I have a user control gamma slider which goes from -2 (dimmest) to +2 (brightest) that I've set to -2 but it still didn't help. I think if I went to +2 my gamma number would end up even lower than 1.7. Interestingly, before I calibrated the RGB levels the gamma was higher (maybe 1.9 or 2.0) so the calibration actually made my gamma lower.

I also noticed that the post-calibration gamma chart shows each color falling off of the cliff at around 60% or 70%. Red seems to be the worst culprit. It has the highest luminance and the lowest gamma.

The greyscale calibration guide suggested not touching green but I could not seem to tame or bring down blue enough to get really low dE's or even out RGB at 100% without pumping up green (and red) in some cases. Plus I see in other people's calibrations that green is not left untouched so I figured it was ok to alter green.

My contrast is set conservatively (meaning I set it only so high as to still be able to see flashing white bars up to 252-ish). My black level is set so 16 seems black but 17 and higher is visible.

So I'm at a loss as to where I am going wrong. Any suggestions? Thanks.
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post #2890 of 4719 Old 12-30-2013, 08:34 AM
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curious, what was your gamma like before you did the 10 point adjustment?
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post #2891 of 4719 Old 12-30-2013, 08:38 AM
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I don't recall exactly but I know it was somewhere between 1.9 and 2.1
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post #2892 of 4719 Old 12-30-2013, 08:48 AM
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let's continue this in the new thread you just created.
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post #2893 of 4719 Old 12-30-2013, 09:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spacediver View Post

let's continue this in the new thread you just created.
+1 wink.gif
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post #2894 of 4719 Old 12-30-2013, 05:52 PM
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Is there any way we can get a real time delta E reading (along with the RGB levels, chromaticity readings?) That would make the workflow much more efficient compared to stopping the free measure, and manually plugging in the values into the grayscale measures table each time. Sometimes it's not clear, based on the RGB levels alone, which the best compromises are (maybe it would be if I knew more color science!)
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post #2895 of 4719 Old 12-30-2013, 06:03 PM
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In the live readings look at x, y, and Y. You want x=0.31271, y=0.32902 and Y to equal your Y target. If you hit that your deltaE will be 0.

You can also look at R,G,B live readings to see real time white balance.
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post #2896 of 4719 Old 12-30-2013, 06:07 PM
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yea I get that, it's just that sometimes you have to make compromises since you can't hit the targets dead on. It's not always clear which compromise yields the lowest delta E's, given that the displayed units are not perceptually normalized like delta E is.


Related: in the real time display, x and y are only shown to three decimal places, whereas in the grayscale measurements table, they're recorded with more precision.
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post #2897 of 4719 Old 12-30-2013, 07:37 PM
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What would be really nice is if you could tell hcfr which color patch or whatever you were going to live read and have it show the xy target and luminance % in real time like it does for the primaries.
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post #2898 of 4719 Old 12-30-2013, 08:08 PM
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Ah, I just create my own test patterns from scratch in inkscape, and display them using irfanview. The only time I use "view images" is when I want to do a final calibration check.
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post #2899 of 4719 Old 01-02-2014, 03:54 AM
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So far I have been using HCFR with "DVD manual" mode for patterns.

Is there any way to use Raspberry Pi as automated signal generator together with HCFR?
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post #2900 of 4719 Old 01-02-2014, 06:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bytec View Post

So far I have been using HCFR with "DVD manual" mode for patterns.

Is there any way to use Raspberry Pi as automated signal generator together with HCFR?

view images mode will generate all pattern sequences for you.
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post #2901 of 4719 Old 01-02-2014, 07:47 AM
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I'm talking about a setup where I calibrate my TV and run HCFR on my laptop (have no HDMI output).

I wish to use Raspberry Pi as an external signal generator and HCFR could talk to it via network.
That way I could run gray scale and other measurement sequences automatically.

Any chance to get something like that?

P.S.
Currently I use AVS HD 709 Calibration Disc and GCD and switch patterns on external player with IR remote when asked.
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post #2902 of 4719 Old 01-02-2014, 08:35 AM
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Zoyd, how hcfr work for xy target at different gamma with cal disk (fixed rgb triplets) :

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1445226/chad-bs-custom-test-patterns/150#post_23204680
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post

Gamma has nothing to do with the signal generator. The signal generator simply outputs a mix of RGB in 8 or 10-bit precision as instructed. Gamma comes into play in the software. If the user selects a 2.2 gamma for, say, 75% intensity, 75% saturation red, then it will instruct the signal generator to output slightly different RGB triplets than if 2.4 had been selected. Alternatively, you can keep the test patterns the same but change the CIE xyY targets as the gamma changes. I prefer the former approach, since 75% saturation seems to me to mean a fixed point in the color space.

for example : if one use gamma with black compensation at 2.4, calibrate with cal disk like AVS, GCD, MCD (fixed rgb triplets), hcfr calcul xyY targets like Calman or like Chromapure ?
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post #2903 of 4719 Old 01-02-2014, 09:01 AM
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Hi, is somebody with a projector here? What would you say are the best preferences settings for gamma calibration using the"new HCFR" (for a projector). I recalibrated for gamma 2.21 with black compensation, but i am not happy with the lower end, seams too dark ( at the same time, the absolute black seamed darker before, if that gives any sense) and loosing too much dark detail ( the 17. column in the first test pattern in the basic settings section is barely visible, but i have brightness always set that way). And for reference i have JVC HD350 combined with VideoEq for correct CMS (i make only the basic settings on projector a fine tune gamma curve and gray scale with the Video Eq).
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post #2904 of 4719 Old 01-02-2014, 05:49 PM
 
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How would one go about using APL Windows in HCFR? Can these APL windows/patterns be downloaded somewhere? What size should they be for plasma TVs such as ZT60/VT60/ST60/S60?
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post #2905 of 4719 Old 01-02-2014, 05:59 PM
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The GCD disc has 10% window patterns and 10% APL patterns - http://www.avsforum.com/t/1406352/gcd-gamut-calibration-disk
The AVS709 disc has "large" and "small" APL patterns - http://www.avsforum.com/t/948496/avs-hd-709-blu-ray-mp4-calibration

In terms of window size, my understanding is that it is irrelevant for APL patterns since the patterns maintain constant average brightness across all measurements. I think you are asking about calibrating using straight window patterns instead of full field, in which case there is substantial discussion about this topic on the forum which you can search for. In general I believe the consensus is somewhere around 10%-15% window size for plasma.

You can get started by reading this thread - http://www.avsforum.com/t/1485584/gamma-with-normal-windows-or-with-apl
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post #2906 of 4719 Old 01-02-2014, 06:03 PM
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^^

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1463980/masciors-calibration-disc


And another few floating around.

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post #2907 of 4719 Old 01-02-2014, 06:03 PM
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If you're going to use APL patterns, personally I would use the 10% APL patterns on either GCD or Masciors disc, which I believe are both 22% APL and 10% sized windows.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1463980/masciors-calibration-disc
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1406352/gcd-gamut-calibration-disk

You can also experiment with CMD which has other APL patterns.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1471757/cmd-hd-calibration-management-disc

edit: beaten.
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post #2908 of 4719 Old 01-03-2014, 09:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by realzven View Post

Zoyd, how hcfr work for xy target at different gamma with cal disk (fixed rgb triplets) :

For fixed RGB triplets from disk, HCFR calculates xyY targets based on a pure power law with either the reference gamma value or the average gamma value if you have use measured gamma checked.
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post #2909 of 4719 Old 01-03-2014, 10:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bytec View Post

I'm talking about a setup where I calibrate my TV and run HCFR on my laptop (have no HDMI output).

I wish to use Raspberry Pi as an external signal generator and HCFR could talk to it via network.
That way I could run gray scale and other measurement sequences automatically.

Any chance to get something like that?

Not likely. The only network functions currently supported are sending patterns to madVR.
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post #2910 of 4719 Old 01-03-2014, 10:17 AM
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How is Mascior's disc calibration with HCFR vs AVS 709? I only use the colour checker from Mascior's...

As I'm curious... Is this a post processing thing with some films through blacks in certain films. There's like this faint green/olive like The Mummy through some dark scenes and other grungy brown films. Yet I know my blacks are looking proper as TV ads with iPad's/laptops, Live broadcasts, news, newsreaders hair is jet black. Tron Legacy, Underworld is as black as you know.

I've noticed a lot of films like 2000 and older there's this faint olive green/brown through some scenes, yet doesn't show up in modern films. Though if anything, post processing in some films are far too heavy compared to older films. Like A Good Day To Die Hard and a few others seem to be more towards cyan type blue.

The most comfortable modern post processing seems to be The Hobbit. None of these weird/heavy tinges.
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