CMS value controls on Sharp Elite - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 9 Old 02-13-2012, 10:54 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Pannus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Greenville, NC
Posts: 151
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hi,

Does anyone know what is controlled by the "CMS Value" controls within the CMS of the Sharp Elite?

Thanks in advance.
Pannus is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 9 Old 02-13-2012, 11:04 AM
AVS Special Member
 
turbe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Lake Tahoe, NV
Posts: 4,424
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 84
Supposed to be luminance (for each primary and each secondary).. there are also Hue and Saturation Controls for each.


Need to find a Professional Calibrator? Click Here to PM me with your Display & City

Calibrator List - Pioneer ISFccc Interface

Calibration Reports - Pioneer

 

ControlCAL™
Designed by Calibrators for Calibrators™

No need to fumble through the Display's Menu with its Remote Control™

turbe is offline  
post #3 of 9 Old 02-14-2012, 09:18 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Doug Blackburn's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: San Francisco - East Bay area
Posts: 3,453
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Liked: 218
All of the Sharp CMS controls are a bit unpredictable. The VALUE control SHOULD control color luminance, but the color xy or uv coordinates still move around when you adjust the VALUE control (and the other 2 controls are also somewhat unpredictable as to which way you'll move the measured point. More than once, I've found that I couldn't get the color where I wanted it to be by using the controls that SHOULD have moved it where it needed to be and only by adjusting the 3rd control could I get the color to move where I needed it to be. Also... you can't always get each color perfect... some of them just can't be perfected with the CMS controls even though you'd think with the 3 controls per color, it should be a slam dunk.

"Movies is magic..." Van Dyke Parks
THX Certified Professional Video Calibration
ISF -- HAA -- www.dBtheatrical.com
Widescreen Review -- Home Theater & Sound
Doug Blackburn is offline  
post #4 of 9 Old 02-15-2012, 09:19 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Pannus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Greenville, NC
Posts: 151
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Blackburn View Post

All of the Sharp CMS controls are a bit unpredictable. The VALUE control SHOULD control color luminance, but the color xy or uv coordinates still move around when you adjust the VALUE control (and the other 2 controls are also somewhat unpredictable as to which way you'll move the measured point. More than once, I've found that I couldn't get the color where I wanted it to be by using the controls that SHOULD have moved it where it needed to be and only by adjusting the 3rd control could I get the color to move where I needed it to be. Also... you can't always get each color perfect... some of them just can't be perfected with the CMS controls even though you'd think with the 3 controls per color, it should be a slam dunk.

Thanks for your response. It sounds as if you also have struggled with the Sharp Elite CMS. Set at low temp in THX (which was closest to 6500K), the green and blue primaries were INSIDE the CIE triangle. I am using my lumagen mini as a pattern generator and adjusting the CMS in the set with calman. Try as I might (and my efforts have been HOURS) I cannot get these primaries spot on despite the three controls. The cyan and magneta secondaries are also a nightmare.

You would think the initial primaries would be outside the triangle for this display (the red is). As I just acquired the lumagen, is it possible that the default saturation is at 75% or something?

I hope you come back to answer this!
Pannus is offline  
post #5 of 9 Old 02-15-2012, 02:02 PM
AVS Special Member
 
dsinger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,638
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pannus View Post

Thanks for your response. It sounds as if you also have struggled with the Sharp Elite CMS. Set at low temp in THX (which was closest to 6500K), the green and blue primaries were INSIDE the CIE triangle. I am using my lumagen mini as a pattern generator and adjusting the CMS in the set with calman. Try as I might (and my efforts have been HOURS) I cannot get these primaries spot on despite the three controls. The cyan and magneta secondaries are also a nightmare.

You would think the initial primaries would be outside the triangle for this display (the red is). As I just acquired the lumagen, is it possible that the default saturation is at 75% or something?

I hope you come back to answer this!

I calibrated my 70X5 in THX (low temp) with a Radiance XD using the 75% standard windows patterns for gamut. Very happy with results. Regarding G&B inside the triangle, try turning 10 point off and use the lo/hi gains for G&B by increasing the values somewhat to see if that pushes the points to the far side of the triangles. Good luck.
dsinger is online now  
post #6 of 9 Old 02-15-2012, 02:05 PM
AVS Special Member
 
dsinger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,638
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 59
OMG, it only took about 9 years to get to 1000 posts!!
dsinger is online now  
post #7 of 9 Old 02-15-2012, 02:58 PM
AVS Special Member
 
TomHuffman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Springfield, MO
Posts: 6,358
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 204
The Sharp Elite CMS does not produce particularly good results. There are two problems. First, the results when calibrated using 75% intensity patterns produce poor results when measured at 100% intensity. Second, colors are distorted within the color space, sometimes drastically.

Tom Huffman
ChromaPure Software/AccuPel Video Signal Generators
ISF/THX Calibrations
Springfield, MO

TomHuffman is offline  
post #8 of 9 Old 02-15-2012, 03:16 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
DaGamePimp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: WA State
Posts: 15,496
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked: 153
It appears CMS across the current Sharp line is problematic, my 60LE632 has the same issues (which is bothersome) but had I purchased an Elite I would be furious (cost of admission there should = properly implemented CMS).

Jason
DaGamePimp is online now  
post #9 of 9 Old 02-16-2012, 09:19 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Doug Blackburn's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: San Francisco - East Bay area
Posts: 3,453
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Liked: 218
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pannus View Post

Thanks for your response. It sounds as if you also have struggled with the Sharp Elite CMS. Set at low temp in THX (which was closest to 6500K), the green and blue primaries were INSIDE the CIE triangle. I am using my lumagen mini as a pattern generator and adjusting the CMS in the set with calman. Try as I might (and my efforts have been HOURS) I cannot get these primaries spot on despite the three controls. The cyan and magneta secondaries are also a nightmare.

You would think the initial primaries would be outside the triangle for this display (the red is). As I just acquired the lumagen, is it possible that the default saturation is at 75% or something?

I hope you come back to answer this!

If any color starts out inside the CIE HDTV triangle, the Lumagen processors (or any other external processor) cannot move the point back out where it belongs. The video display's CMS controls MIGHT move the color farther out. When a color is inside the triangle, it is under-saturated. When using a video processor, you need to find a mode on the display that either places the colors in accurate locations OR moves the color(s) OUTSIDE the CIE triangle. If the color starts OUTSIDE the CIE triangle, the video processor can move it in to be accurate... but video processors can't move colors that are already inside the triangle so that they are farther out.

You want to use 75% color patterns because those are 50% stimulus (roughly, with gamma in the 2.2-2.3 range, 75% patterns should be pretty close to 50% stimulus). The reason for that is... if you calibrate with 100% patterns you are all the way out at one end of the luminance range. A lot of errors could creep in as you move down the luminance range. When you use 75% patterns, you are right in the middle of the luminance range (50% stimulus) so when you make 50% stimulus accurate, you have a good chance of minimizing errors since the luminance range will only vary +/- 50% from where you measured... versus a range of +0% to -100% if you were to use 100% color patterns.

The calibration software generally will have a setting where you can select 75% or 100% patterns for color measurements (and possibly some other levels also). If you want to get picky, you could measure colors at 25%, 50%, 75% and 100% then determine, in the aggregate, what settings for CMS controls produce the overall lowest errors for each of those pattern levels. But you'd be looking at hours and hours of measurements and comparisons.

"Movies is magic..." Van Dyke Parks
THX Certified Professional Video Calibration
ISF -- HAA -- www.dBtheatrical.com
Widescreen Review -- Home Theater & Sound
Doug Blackburn is offline  
Reply Display Calibration

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off