Is "full calibration" worth it vs. calibration disks - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 42 Old 03-01-2012, 07:47 AM
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I'm a newbie and have never had a TV calibrated, so I apologize in advance if I sound ignorant. I'm also not a videophile, in that I'm not necessarily looking for "true" colors -- I prefer a picture that is very bright with vivid colors but true skin tones. I had a Sammy 55 inch A950 and using some settings I found here i got a superb picture with bright, vivid, crisp colors and true skin tones (backlight on 9/10 and contrast set very high too). I just bought the Sharp 70LE732U and I can't replicate the same picture quality. The colors seems a little off (either too much pink in faces or too much yellow) no matter how I tweak the settings. I'm now thinking about having the set calibrated, starting with something like the WOW disk. My question is, given that I like bright, vivid colors, is calibration worth it? I have read comments that a calibrated set may look dimmer than people are used to. Can I calibrate the TV to get the colors right and then just tweak the backlight/contrast/brightness to get the vividness I like, or will I just be undoing what the calibration did? Thanks in advance for any helpful comments.
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post #32 of 42 Old 03-01-2012, 08:06 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky7 View Post

I'm a newbie and have never had a TV calibrated, so I apologize in advance if I sound ignorant. I'm also not a videophile, in that I'm not necessarily looking for "true" colors -- I prefer a picture that is very bright with vivid colors but true skin tones. I had a Sammy 55 inch A950 and using some settings I found here i got a superb picture with bright, vivid, crisp colors and true skin tones (backlight on 9/10 and contrast set very high too). I just bought the Sharp 70LE732U and I can't replicate the same picture quality. The colors seems a little off (either too much pink in faces or too much yellow) no matter how I tweak the settings. I'm now thinking about having the set calibrated, starting with something like the WOW disk. My question is, given that I like bright, vivid colors, is calibration worth it? I have read comments that a calibrated set may look dimmer than people are used to. Can I calibrate the TV to get the colors right and then just tweak the backlight/contrast/brightness to get the vividness I like, or will I just be undoing what the calibration did? Thanks in advance for any helpful comments.

First. . . . very nice TV!

You can always start with something like Disney WOW or even the AVS HD709 disc and use it for initial settings. It is best to start with controlling your room lighting using indirect , soft diffused lighting that neither shines onto the screen nor into your eyes even from the sides. Then make a back light setting, Brightness, Contrast, and so on as described in the Disney WOW, AVS HD709 or something like the Spears & Munsil. These "media assist" discs will help you get very good basic settings. Then, if you wish, you can make minor tweaks for more vivid colors, etc.

That said, your Sharp may be best with a full calibration since it is known for being a little fussy with the added yellow pixels and probably needs full adjust to compensate for the issues you mention. But, at $30 or so for Disney WOW or the AVS HD709 disc for free it's worth a try.

Even with a full equipment calibration, you are starting with more accurate starting settings and can always boost a little here and there. Also, if you choose to get a calibration. . . you want a calibrator known for experience and able to ask and consider your own preferences. Many times, two calibrated settings can be made to accommodate day and night viewing of, in your case, and natural and vivid setting? In any case, make SURE you ask plenty of questions and verify what equipment a calibrator uses to provide you with his service.

There is a list of traveling calibrators here on AVS and you may also be in an area that has several to choose from.

Here is just one such link, but others can be found using the Search feature above.

http://www.thxvideotech.com/forum/sh...deo-Calibrator
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post #33 of 42 Old 03-01-2012, 08:40 AM
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Thanks. I'll try the disk and then go from there.
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post #34 of 42 Old 03-01-2012, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky7 View Post

My question is, given that I like bright, vivid colors, is calibration worth it? I have read comments that a calibrated set may look dimmer than people are used to. Can I calibrate the TV to get the colors right and then just tweak the backlight/contrast/brightness to get the vividness I like, or will I just be undoing what the calibration did? Thanks in advance for any helpful comments.

When you have your set calibrated by a pro, you should be in the room with them and if you like a blindingly bright image they should adjust the light output as such. Calibration involves setting the brightness, contrast, overscan, aspect ratio,sharpness, color/tint and backlight to the proper level for your room environment. There is most likely on your set a way to store 2 sets of settings one for very bright daytime environment and a night time darker environment.
With additional equipment (prob and software) they will adjust the gray scale (also called white balance or color temperature) to a reference level of D65. This is like the color of the canvas in a painting, the canvas must be the proper color of white, so when you put the colors on top they are not altered by the color of the canvas.
In the video signal, this is the color of white.
There are other adjustment for Color management but in many cases these are not needed and if over tuned can actually make thing worse.
In the end, you image will be as close to how it was master as can be with the given signal and hardware. If the image is to dark it is because the back light was set for a dim room and not done for a bright room. This idea of a flat dim images it just plain stupid, if done correctly the image can be exponentially better than out of box settings depending of course on the TV itself. You will obviously get bigger gains with a set that if father off to start but the gains will be worth the effort.
There is no reason you can not have a properly calibrated TV with a blindingly bright image if that is what you like.
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post #35 of 42 Old 03-01-2012, 09:47 AM
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Calibration is setting your display as close to reference standards as possible within the capabilities of your display. Any shortcomings of your display will require compromise.

Anything else is just adjusting to taste.

When selecting a pro calibrator, contact someone from either the ISF or THX listings, or those listed here, but ask them questions and check references prior to hiring them. They won't be insulted.

As airscapes mentioned, it's a good idea to be in the room when you're having your display calibrated, watching and asking whatever questions you have. This education is part of the package. Also, let them know your viewing habits.

Once your display has been properly calibrated, it may take a few days for your eyes to adjust to what accurate looks like. If afterwards you feel that you'd like to enhance it to taste, feel free to do so, but know that you are deviating from standards.

I say properly, because there are calibrators out there that aren't up to snuff, and may not be capable of doing a proper calibration of your display. Always check references.

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post #36 of 42 Old 03-01-2012, 12:45 PM
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Thanks for your helpful comments. I will definitely be there if/when I get the display calibrated.
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post #37 of 42 Old 03-01-2012, 06:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky7 View Post

Thanks for your helpful comments. I will definitely be there if/when I get the display calibrated.

Since you like saturated colors but want accurate skin tones, you should look into the eeColor color processor which uses 3D LUTs to enable a wide color gamut with correct skin tones. Only down side is it's $1600

Tyler Pruitt - Pro Calibrator - BionicAV
Technical Support - SpectraCal

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post #38 of 42 Old 03-02-2012, 04:07 AM
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Have you seen a calibrated HDTV or reference yet? You may be surprised by what you see.

I had my Time Warner guy here installing a new Cable box the other day. He raved about his Samsung and the fact it was SO colorful, Bright, and Vivid that it looked surreal...he loved it...!

Until I showed him what a professional calibrated Pioneer KRP-500M looked like. He was blown away.

I gave him a WOW Disc as a tip for installing the box.

My suggesting is to try a properly calibrated HDTV for a week. Use "Cinema mode and a calibration disc and carefully calibrate your HDTV. Watch a variety of content on Blu-Ray such as movies, nature, etc.

Then try going back to your Vivid mode settings after a week.

That is really the only way to tell what you truly like best.

Personally, after watching my PDP with rich, organic, pleasing colors and deep blacks with crisp detail ... I could never go back to watching any HDTV that is not calibrated. Neither could my GF ... she is in love with the image.

However, to each his own...try watching a calibrated image for a while...let us know your thoughts after going back to Vivid mode. I for one would be curious about what you have to say.

Richard J. Casey



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post #39 of 42 Old 03-02-2012, 04:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post

Since you like saturated colors but want accurate skin tones, you should look into the eeColor color processor which uses 3D LUTs to enable a wide color gamut with correct skin tones. Only down side is it's $1600

I've tried the ee with three calibrated displays and was not wowed with the picture. There is a button on the remote for bypassing the LUTs and although the six available modes added pizzazz I preferred not to use them in the long run. The unit is in storage until Spectracal hopefully comes up with multi-point calibration utilizing 3D LUTs such is available with LightSpace.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RBFilms View Post


My suggesting is to try a properly calibrated HDTV for a week. Use "Cinema mode and a calibration disc and carefully calibrate your HDTV. Watch a variety of content on Blu-Ray such as movies, nature, etc.

Then try going back to your Vivid mode settings after a week.

That is really the only way to tell what you truly like best.

.

Absolutely. Calibration is not for everyone. THX teaches us to have the customer present while calibrating to explain the whats and the whys. Some calibrators won't take the job unless the customer agrees to be there. For those customers who are truly interested in calibration, once they are shown to look for shadow detail, flesh tones, and the proper color of items they are intimately familiar with such as fruits and vegetables they wouldn't have it any other way.

Buzz
THX Certified Video Calibrator

 

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post #40 of 42 Old 03-02-2012, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RBFilms View Post

Have you seen a calibrated HDTV or reference yet? You may be surprised by what you see.

I had my Time Warner guy here installing a new Cable box the other day. He raved about his Samsung and the fact it was SO colorful, Bright, and Vivid that it looked surreal...he loved it...!

Until I showed him what a professional calibrated Pioneer KRP-500M looked like. He was blown away.

I gave him a WOW Disc as a tip for installing the box.

My suggesting is to try a properly calibrated HDTV for a week. Use "Cinema mode and a calibration disc and carefully calibrate your HDTV. Watch a variety of content on Blu-Ray such as movies, nature, etc.

Then try going back to your Vivid mode settings after a week.

That is really the only way to tell what you truly like best.

Personally, after watching my PDP with rich, organic, pleasing colors and deep blacks with crisp detail ... I could never go back to watching any HDTV that is not calibrated. Neither could my GF ... she is in love with the image.

However, to each his own...try watching a calibrated image for a while...let us know your thoughts after going back to Vivid mode. I for one would be curious about what you have to say.

I just ordered the WOW disk and will try that first. If that doesn't do it, I will have the display calibrated. Not thrilled about spending $400, but I want a picture I like. Right now, the picture is driving me crazy because I get too much yellow/green or too much red, especially in skin tones, and I can't get it consistently correct by playing with the color settings. I will ask the calibrator to set 2 settings -- one that is true calibration, and one that is more vivid/bright and then decide which to use. I appreciate all the helpful comments.
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post #41 of 42 Old 03-03-2012, 06:53 AM
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I have never seen an auto calibration system yet that can outdo a manual setup.

It is no different than sound really. Once I point out what to listen for, it is VERY rare for people to not prefer the more detailed, organic, and beautifully imaged soundstage that a well calibrated, quality sound system delivers.

Video calibration is similar. Once you point out the differences, I rarely see anyone go back to a non-calibrated image...if fact, in my experience, never.

However, not everyone sees or clearly recognizes all of the detail and finer points of a calibrated image unless it is pointed out to them.

The closest I came was my Time Warner installation guy. He raved about his Samsung and how it was so Vivid that it was surreal and almost hard to watch because it was so good. He LOVED this image ... until I showed him a calibrated Pioneer KRP-500M and pointed out what to look for ... he quickly changed his mind and I gave him a WOW disc as a tip for installing three (3) cable boxes.

However, I assume it is possible for some people to like or even prefer the in your face WOW factor of a bright, saturated, punchy image. For me however, anything that LOOKS or SOUND re-produced or artificial is annoying.

This could be due to the fact that I spend a lot of time in studios looking and listening to original native source content ... so I know how it SHOULD look and sound based on the original intention of the producer/director or producer/recording engineer.

I require ... and desire ... full transparency to the source whenever possible not only due to my job ... but also as my personal preference.

There is nothing wrong with those who do not agree with this ... to each his own and whatever makes you happy I always say

Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

I've tried the ee with three calibrated displays and was not wowed with the picture. There is a button on the remote for bypassing the LUTs and although the six available modes added pizzazz I preferred not to use them in the long run. The unit is in storage until Spectracal hopefully comes up with multi-point calibration utilizing 3D LUTs such is available with LightSpace.


.

Absolutely. Calibration is not for everyone. THX teaches us to have the customer present while calibrating to explain the whats and the whys. Some calibrators won't take the job unless the customer agrees to be there. For those customers who are truly interested in calibration, once they are shown to look for shadow detail, flesh tones, and the proper color of items they are intimately familiar with such as fruits and vegetables they wouldn't have it any other way.


Richard J. Casey



Disney WOW - World of Wonder


Producers Guild of America, New Media Council
(BD Industry Insider)
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post #42 of 42 Old 03-04-2012, 10:48 AM
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When I went for my ISF I found that I would not let over 97 percent of the participants touch my video gear. Experience does count for something but I have also ran across calibrators that have been doing it wrong for years.

Mike Chen does come to Toronto couple times a year btw. I have a few customers that are on his list.

What has not been mentioned is that the spectral behavior of the lamp changes dramatically in the first 100 hours. Don't bother getting a calibration till the lamps spectral behavior sets in.

If people are depending on the C6 or any other colorimeter for that matter it should be calibrated often. I have seen some wild diy settings. It isnt a bad idea if you are going the DIY route to have a pro do it for you the first time. After this I would also watch some reference material so you get used to what it looks like calibrated properly. Maybe move some of the primaries off a bit each way so you get used to what color adjustments were made and what effect changes made in the color so when it starts to drift you can get some idea how to automatically fix it or know when something is at least off.

I find the beauty of customers not doing it themselves is that they enjoy the content more of just watching and enjoying. If you start to watch and start looking at flaws .. which is what I do ... you really will never enjoy just watching a movie as much any longer. Its like when you build your own house.. You start going to friends houses and can pick up all the flaws. A lot of movies this year sucked tho so you won't be missing much.
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