Is "full calibration" worth it vs. calibration disks - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 42 Old 02-20-2012, 07:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Is it worth doing a full calibration on a projector via software such as Calman, etc. versus just using a calibration disk such as Disney WOW? I know it probably depends on who you ask but If I do the full calibration I would be interested in using the auto calibration software which would require the purchase of a video processor such as the Dvdo Duo or such. Maybe I should just be looking at the manual procedure to get the price down?

I figure the full DIY auto calibration vs the Disney WOW price difference would be about $1600 vs $30 or so. Is the full that much better than the disk? How far does the disk get you? 50%, 75%, 90%? I guess I am trying to estimate the marginal return on picture quality between the two.

Thanks you any replies.
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post #2 of 42 Old 02-20-2012, 07:31 AM
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The disks like wow can get you pretty good results but i dont think they can set gamma and 10p correctly. Somone will have to chime in on that

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post #3 of 42 Old 02-20-2012, 07:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dmiraclejr View Post

Is it worth doing a full calibration on a projector via software such as Calman, etc. versus just using a calibration disk such as Disney WOW? I know it probably depends on who you ask but If I do the full calibration I would be interested in using the auto calibration software which would require the purchase of a video processor such as the Dvdo Duo or such. Maybe I should just be looking at the manual procedure to get the price down?

I figure the full DIY auto calibration vs the Disney WOW price difference would be about $1600 vs $30 or so. Is the full that much better than the disk? How far does the disk get you? 50%, 75%, 90%? I guess I am trying to estimate the marginal return on picture quality between the two.

Thanks you any replies.

"Worth" is entirely subjective. All you are going to get is other people's opinions. Professional level calibration must be worthwhile for a lot of people or it wouldn't exist. If you don't personally value the benefits of image fidelity, balanced against your financial means and other priorities, don't do it.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1021933
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post #4 of 42 Old 02-20-2012, 07:47 AM
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Depends on what you are looking for. I spent the $425 to have my OLD 720p used projector calibrated, then 1000 hours later bought a meter and Calman for another $900. Guess it is worth it to me, but I enjoy it, even collect free TVs just to see how good old CRTs could have looked had they been calibrated.
However, not everyone feels the need to take it the final 30-40% after just setting the user level controls. As to the autocal and processor.. you can always add that later if you find you don't have a couple hours every 6-12 months to do the calibration manually.

There is some interesting reading on this site that may be of interest as to calibrations why/how etc http://www.tlvexp.ca/
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post #5 of 42 Old 02-20-2012, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airscapes View Post


There is some interesting reading on this site that may be of interest as to calibrations why/how etc http://www.tlvexp.ca/

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post #6 of 42 Old 02-20-2012, 10:48 AM
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It's easy to find test patterns or free calibration discs (example AVS709) and it takes 10 minutes to make the adjustments you can make without any type of color measuring device: Brightness, Contrast, Sharpness, Color Hue, Overscan and maybe even choose a color temp setting and experiement with the gamma presets.)

That's like free and takes a few minutes so EVERYONE should do that.

If you want more than that then you need to go beyond that.

=Brian
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post #7 of 42 Old 02-20-2012, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dmiraclejr View Post

Is it worth doing a full calibration on a projector via software such as Calman, etc. versus just using a calibration disk such as Disney WOW? I know it probably depends on who you ask but If I do the full calibration I would be interested in using the auto calibration software which would require the purchase of a video processor such as the Dvdo Duo or such. Maybe I should just be looking at the manual procedure to get the price down?

I figure the full DIY auto calibration vs the Disney WOW price difference would be about $1600 vs $30 or so. Is the full that much better than the disk? How far does the disk get you? 50%, 75%, 90%? I guess I am trying to estimate the marginal return on picture quality between the two.

Thanks you any replies.

What projector do you have? While worth is relative like George mentioned, various other factors are relevant as well:

1. How close your projector measures pre-cal once you've done all you can without a meter properly (by using a basic setup disc like Disney WOW correctly)

2. What picture controls your projector offers to dial in grayscale, gamma, and color gamut

3. Whether those picture controls work properly or not; sometimes they might work decently and sometimes they might not work at all

4. Whether the range of those controls is sufficient to get close enough to reference standards (within reasonable dE)


I'm sure there are many other important factors as well, but these are what come to mind at the moment.
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post #8 of 42 Old 02-20-2012, 04:58 PM
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I can tell you this from experience ... and as a Producer / Director of Calibration Discs and the Disney WOW Disc.

If you have an average HDTV Panel like the 42" Panasonic ST-30 in my Guest room ... which only me about $850 ... then a Calibration Disc makes sense and does a great job. In this case, I can get excellent results since the calibration controls are limited on this TV. I can get the HDTV Panel close enough to where I would not spend $400 for a pro calibrator to come in and tweak the HDTV Panel any more than what I can do with a disc.

However, if you have a very good PDP. LED, OLED Display or Projector with good calibration controls, like my Pioneer KRP-500M and my Pioneer KRP-600M, then a professional calibration is highly recommended.

I can get very close to ideal if not spot-on with the Disney WOW Disc when it comes to the following adjustments:

* Brightness
* Contrast
* Aspect Ration
* Color
* Tint
* Sharpness

However, a GREAT HDTV Panel or Projector will always benefit from a professional, experienced calibration technician.

However, let me define professional by my standards as a Producer / Director who needs to have reference quality picture & sound for my job.

A professional (in my opinion) will typically have a VERY good meter ($8,000 to $15,000 ) and a great Pattern Generator ($1,200 to $5,000) and CalMan Software ($2,500) and a lot of experience (5+ years) and have worked on NUMEROUS Panels and will have mastered calibration to the point of being considered an artist (basically, NOT the Geek Squad guy) and he will charge $400 for each panel and even more for a projector.

Also, I do not recommend Auto anything ... including Audyssey for Audio or Auto Video Calibration of any kind. Nothing "Auto" is a substitute for a talented calibration tech that knows what they are doing.

You get a guy or gal like that to work on a a very high quality Display or Projector, then yes ... it is worth it.

Sorry for the long winded response to what is really a short answer in the end. Again, this is my opinion for what it is worth.

Keep your trigger fingers off the flamethrowers please...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dmiraclejr View Post

Is it worth doing a full calibration on a projector via software such as Calman, etc. versus just using a calibration disk such as Disney WOW? I know it probably depends on who you ask but If I do the full calibration I would be interested in using the auto calibration software which would require the purchase of a video processor such as the Dvdo Duo or such. Maybe I should just be looking at the manual procedure to get the price down?

I figure the full DIY auto calibration vs the Disney WOW price difference would be about $1600 vs $30 or so. Is the full that much better than the disk? How far does the disk get you? 50%, 75%, 90%? I guess I am trying to estimate the marginal return on picture quality between the two.

Thanks you any replies.


Richard J. Casey



Disney WOW - World of Wonder


Producers Guild of America, New Media Council
(BD Industry Insider)
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post #9 of 42 Old 02-20-2012, 05:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RBFilms View Post

I can tell you this from experience ... and as a Producer / Director of Calibration Discs and the Disney WOW Disc.

If you have an average HDTV Panel like the 42" Panasonic ST-30 in my Guest room ... which only me about $850 ... then a Calibration Disc makes sense and does a great job. In this case, I can get excellent results since the calibration controls are limited on this TV. I can get the HDTV Panel close enough to where I would not spend $400 for a pro calibrator to come in and tweak the HDTV Panel any more than what I can do with a disc.

However, if you have a very good PDP. LED, OLED Display or Projector with good calibration controls, like my Pioneer KRP-500M and my Pioneer KRP-600M, then a professional calibration is highly recommended.

I can get very close to ideal if not spot-on with the Disney WOW Disc when it comes to the following adjustments:

* Brightness
* Contrast
* Aspect Ration
* Color
* Tint
* Sharpness

However, a GREAT HDTV Panel or Projector will always benefit from a professional, experienced calibration technician.

However, let me define professional by my standards as a Producer / Director who needs to have reference quality picture & sound for my job.

A professional (in my opinion) will typically have a VERY good meter ($8,000 to $15,000 ) and a great Pattern Generator ($1,200 to $5,000) and CalMan Software ($2,500) and a lot of experience (5+ years) and have worked on NUMEROUS Panels and will have mastered calibration to the point of being considered an artist (basically, NOT the Geek Squad guy) and he will charge $400 for each panel and even more for a projector.

Also, I do not recommend Auto anything ... including Audyssey for Audio or Auto Video Calibration of any kind. Nothing "Auto" is a substitute for a talented calibration tech that knows what they are doing.

You get a guy or gal like that to work on a a very high quality Display or Projector, then yes ... it is worth it.

Sorry for the long winded response to what is really a short answer in the end. Again, this is my opinion for what it is worth.

Keep your trigger fingers off the flamethrowers please...

A very sensible response. Thanks.
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post #10 of 42 Old 02-20-2012, 08:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dmiraclejr View Post

Is it worth doing a full calibration on a projector via software such as Calman, etc. versus just using a calibration disk such as Disney WOW? I know it probably depends on who you ask but If I do the full calibration I would be interested in using the auto calibration software which would require the purchase of a video processor such as the Dvdo Duo or such. Maybe I should just be looking at the manual procedure to get the price down?

I figure the full DIY auto calibration vs the Disney WOW price difference would be about $1600 vs $30 or so. Is the full that much better than the disk? How far does the disk get you? 50%, 75%, 90%? I guess I am trying to estimate the marginal return on picture quality between the two.

Thanks you any replies.

GeorgeAB and RBFilms nailed it - "worth" and "better" are completely relative terms on multiple levels. Only you can decide the "worth" of anything or whether something is "better" to you. Others can give you their personal opinions but there's no guarantee that any of them will match yours when all is said and done.

I will offer up this: if you're just looking to "tweak" your display for a pretty or pleasing picture, calibration is not what you are looking for. Anyone can fiddle with the controls on their display until they arrive at something they like (especially oversaturated colors and overly cool whites), but that is not calibration. Educate yourself (even talk to pro calibrators here) to figure out what calibration is/isn't before you decide to jump into any major time or money investments.

There are 10 types of people: those who understand binary, and those who don't.

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post #11 of 42 Old 02-21-2012, 06:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the replies.
I knew the question I was asking was subjective and the replies I received would be opinions. Just like people ask "how is the water" before jumping in a pool/ocean it is just nice to get an idea of what to expect before you jump in. It sounds like one just has to try it for yourself. Me just wanting to improve my own Panasonic Ar100U (bought for the lumens) I may just "dip my toe in the water" to test it out in the $300-500 range with a manual set up.

Again thanks for all the help.
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post #12 of 42 Old 02-24-2012, 04:19 PM
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Same exact situation for me. I would also like to at least get the chromapure auto and try manual first , but those processors look real nice too. The auto mode looks sweet. I want to calibrate my new Epsom 5010.
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post #13 of 42 Old 02-24-2012, 04:34 PM
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Just be warned guys. Even if you do not think it is worth it now, once you see a calibrated display in your home you won't be able to go back to non-calibrated display that easily.
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post #14 of 42 Old 02-24-2012, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketlaw View Post

Just be warned guys. Even if you do not think it is worth it now, once you see a calibrated display in your home you won't be able to go back to non-calibrated display that easily.

I'm very very particular about my work, and what I do for other people. I never let "good enough" slide, except when it comes to my own personal entertainment. I have very low standards when it comes to my own comfort and enjoyment - I'd rather be uncomfortable and make make money than be in comfort and spend it. I don't own a TV. Not a single one, haven't for years and years... But I've got three laptops, two of which are dedicated to making money. One is for the wife.

With that in mind, I finally calibrated my laptop - my low end, 17" Toshiba screen... From that moment on, nearly every TV I saw irritated me immensely because I knew what it COULD look like. I saw the blue tint in all whites, I saw the sun burnt faces and neon green grass. I saw the cut off darks and whites, etc. It's true - once you've grown accustomed to a well calibrated device, you can't go back.
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post #15 of 42 Old 02-24-2012, 07:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZandarKoad View Post

I'm very very particular about my work, and what I do for other people. I never let "good enough" slide, except when it comes to my own personal entertainment. I have very low standards when it comes to my own comfort and enjoyment - I'd rather be uncomfortable and make make money than be in comfort and spend it. I don't own a TV. Not a single one, haven't for years and years... But I've got three laptops, two of which are dedicated to making money. One is for the wife.

With that in mind, I finally calibrated my laptop - my low end, 17" Toshiba screen... From that moment on, nearly every TV I saw irritated me immensely because I knew what it COULD look like. I saw the blue tint in all whites, I saw the sun burnt faces and neon green grass. I saw the cut off darks and whites, etc. It's true - once you've grown accustomed to a well calibrated device, you can't go back.

ignorance is bliss
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post #16 of 42 Old 02-25-2012, 08:42 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RBFilms View Post

I can tell you this from experience ... and as a Producer / Director of Calibration Discs and the Disney WOW Disc.

If you have an average HDTV Panel like the 42" Panasonic ST-30 in my Guest room ... which only me about $850 ... then a Calibration Disc makes sense and does a great job. In this case, I can get excellent results since the calibration controls are limited on this TV. I can get the HDTV Panel close enough to where I would not spend $400 for a pro calibrator to come in and tweak the HDTV Panel any more than what I can do with a disc.

However, my Pioneer KRP-500M and my Pioneer KRP-600M, then a professional calibration is highly if you have a very good PDP. LED, OLED Display or Projector with good calibration controls, like recommended.


However, a GREAT HDTV Panel or Projector will always benefit from a professional, experienced calibration technician.

However, let me define professional by my standards as a Producer / Director who needs to have reference quality picture & sound for my job.

A professional (in my opinion) will typically have a VERY good meter ($8,000 to $15,000 ) and a great Pattern Generator ($1,200 to $5,000) and CalMan Software ($2,500) and a lot of experience (5+ years) and have worked on NUMEROUS Panels and will have mastered calibration to the point of being considered an artist (basically, NOT the Geek Squad guy) and he will charge $400 for each panel and even more for a projector.



You get a guy or gal like that to work on a a very high quality Display or Projector, then yes ... it is worth it.

Sorry for the long winded response to what is really a short answer in the end. Again, this is my opinion for what it is worth.

Keep your trigger fingers off the flamethrowers please...


Thank you, at last, for the most sensible and reasonable comment as a professional regarding calibration vs. media (Disney WOW, etc) assisted settings. I personally can appreciate both and would only hope there should never be any condescending dialog (flaming) under the guise of "educating and guiding". That should be left for an individual to decide and allow both calibration and media assisted settings as means to obtain good picture quality that is closer to an ideal. The difference is in degree.
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post #17 of 42 Old 02-26-2012, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RBFilms View Post

I can tell you this from experience ... and as a Producer / Director of Calibration Discs and the Disney WOW Disc.

If you have an average HDTV Panel like the 42" Panasonic ST-30 in my Guest room ... which only me about $850 ... then a Calibration Disc makes sense and does a great job. In this case, I can get excellent results since the calibration controls are limited on this TV. I can get the HDTV Panel close enough to where I would not spend $400 for a pro calibrator to come in and tweak the HDTV Panel any more than what I can do with a disc.

However, if you have a very good PDP. LED, OLED Display or Projector with good calibration controls, like my Pioneer KRP-500M and my Pioneer KRP-600M, then a professional calibration is highly recommended.

I can get very close to ideal if not spot-on with the Disney WOW Disc when it comes to the following adjustments:

* Brightness
* Contrast
* Aspect Ration
* Color
* Tint
* Sharpness

However, a GREAT HDTV Panel or Projector will always benefit from a professional, experienced calibration technician.

However, let me define professional by my standards as a Producer / Director who needs to have reference quality picture & sound for my job.

A professional (in my opinion) will typically have a VERY good meter ($8,000 to $15,000 ) and a great Pattern Generator ($1,200 to $5,000) and CalMan Software ($2,500) and a lot of experience (5+ years) and have worked on NUMEROUS Panels and will have mastered calibration to the point of being considered an artist (basically, NOT the Geek Squad guy) and he will charge $400 for each panel and even more for a projector.

Also, I do not recommend Auto anything ... including Audyssey for Audio or Auto Video Calibration of any kind. Nothing "Auto" is a substitute for a talented calibration tech that knows what they are doing.

You get a guy or gal like that to work on a a very high quality Display or Projector, then yes ... it is worth it.

Sorry for the long winded response to what is really a short answer in the end. Again, this is my opinion for what it is worth.

Keep your trigger fingers off the flamethrowers please...

This brings the question as to what the definition of an average display is versus a great display is. If you are referring to price alone, then I don't agree since even cheap TVs like my LG 42LK450 can benefit greatly from a full calibration because they have all the necessary picture controls, not just 2-pt grayscale (like most other entry-level displays and even some pricier displays). I referring to the inclusion of 10-pt grayscale/gamma and CMS controls that work properly (or well enough) and have sufficient range to dial in color and gamma beyond human perception with real program material. Even on those TVs that only offer 2-pt grayscale, color accuracy can be improved considerably unless the display is close out of the box to begin with, such as with some THX-certified displays. So, as far as I see it, what determines whether a display is a good candidate for a full calibration is:

1. How close is grayscale/gamma and gamut out of the box after using a calibration disc?

2. What picture controls exist to dial in these three areas and do they work well enough/properly and have sufficient range? How extensive are the controls (2-pt grayscale only or also 10-pt and CMS)?

3. Do you use the display for reference viewing like with DVD and BD sources or is it mainly used for watching cable/satellite/OTA and/or gaming?
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post #18 of 42 Old 02-26-2012, 06:37 PM
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My Panny plasma is pro calibrated. I will never go back....
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post #19 of 42 Old 02-26-2012, 09:17 PM
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I agree, if you have the money and it is your primary display, professional calibration is the cat's meow.

However, let me clarify my statement in case it is being misunderstood.

I did NOT define "great display" by price .... in fact, I did not define it at all outside of saying my Pioneer KRP-500M and KRP-600M are great displays and definitely worth the investment with respect to a professional calibration. Anyone who owns these displays probably already knows that.

There are many factors that contribute to making a display great. Cost does not always have to be one of them.

What I did say in fact ... is that for me ... spending half the price of an HDTV for a pro calibration would typically not be worth the cost when it comes to my Panasonic ST-30.

Fortunately for me, my Panasonic ST-30 is just a Guest Bedroom TV and it is NOT my primary display.

However, I will admit my Panasonic IS professionally calibrated because it made sense to do this and was more cost effective when D-Nice was here recently taking care of my Pioneers.

Also, I do not touch Gamma or Advanced CMS Controls when using a disc. I do not own the $15,000 to $20,000 worth of gear required to do a great job on my displays using advanced controls. I leave that all up to the Pros with the gear and experience.

For me, the Panasonic ST-30 does not have anywhere near the black levels or color accuracy or the Pioneer displays. I would rate the Panasonic ST-30 as a Good Display not a Great display. However, I am spoiled, so maybe I am not the norm as far as consumers / enthusiasts are concerned.

Last but not last, I have seen great Professional Calibrations and not so great Professional calibrations ... and even what I would go so far as to call unacceptable professional calibrations. There are differences and one should be aware of this when spending that much money for a professional calibration.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

This brings the question as to what the definition of an average display is versus a great display is. If you are referring to price alone, then I don't agree since even cheap TVs like my LG 42LK450 can benefit greatly from a full calibration because they have all the necessary picture controls, not just 2-pt grayscale (like most other entry-level displays and even some pricier displays). I referring to the inclusion of 10-pt grayscale/gamma and CMS controls that work properly (or well enough) and have sufficient range to dial in color and gamma beyond human perception with real program material. Even on those TVs that only offer 2-pt grayscale, color accuracy can be improved considerably unless the display is close out of the box to begin with, such as with some THX-certified displays. So, as far as I see it, what determines whether a display is a good candidate for a full calibration is:

1. How close is grayscale/gamma and gamut out of the box after using a calibration disc?

2. What picture controls exist to dial in these three areas and do they work well enough/properly and have sufficient range? How extensive are the controls (2-pt grayscale only or also 10-pt and CMS)?

3. Do you use the display for reference viewing like with DVD and BD sources or is it mainly used for watching cable/satellite/OTA and/or gaming?


Richard J. Casey



Disney WOW - World of Wonder


Producers Guild of America, New Media Council
(BD Industry Insider)
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post #20 of 42 Old 02-26-2012, 09:30 PM
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This is a Forum...flamethrowers are always lit and ready 24/7 to torch anyone with an opinion different than one's own ...!! I am used to it after years on this forum.

The worst was HD-DVD verses BD ...

... I supported BOTH formats and realized financial loss in the end for doing so ... which I knew would happen However, despite supporting both formats, I still look like Darkman after that ... I have to wear bandages over my face to go out in public these days...

Gee, I hope I don't get flamed now for having a sense of humor about being flamed..!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Phase700B View Post

I personally can appreciate both and would only hope there should never be any condescending dialog (flaming) under the guise of "educating and guiding". That should be left for an individual to decide and allow both calibration and media assisted settings as means to obtain good picture quality that is closer to an ideal. The difference is in degree.


Richard J. Casey



Disney WOW - World of Wonder


Producers Guild of America, New Media Council
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post #21 of 42 Old 02-27-2012, 04:08 AM
 
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This is a Forum...flamethrowers are always lit and ready 24/7 to torch anyone with an opinion different than one's own ...!! I am used to it after years on this forum.

The worst was HD-DVD verses BD ...

... I supported BOTH formats and realized financial loss in the end for doing so ... which I knew would happen However, despite supporting both formats, I still look like Darkman after that ... I have to wear bandages over my face to go out in public these days...

Gee, I hope I don't get flamed now for having a sense of humor about being flamed..!

I understand and appreciate that. And. . . I have "Darkman" on HD DVD playable on my Toshiba XA2.

I supported both formats and still love the quality of the small library of HD DVDs and the excellent upconvert ability of the XA2 for DVDs.
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post #22 of 42 Old 02-27-2012, 06:53 AM
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I agree, if you have the money and it is your primary display, professional calibration is the cat's meow.

However, let me clarify my statement in case it is being misunderstood.

I did NOT define "great display" by price .... in fact, I did not define it at all outside of saying my Pioneer KRP-500M and KRP-600M are great displays and definitely worth the investment with respect to a professional calibration. Anyone who owns these displays probably already knows that.

There are many factors that contribute to making a display great. Cost does not always have to be one of them.

What I did say in fact ... is that for me ... spending half the price of an HDTV for a pro calibration would typically not be worth the cost when it comes to my Panasonic ST-30.

Fortunately for me, my Panasonic ST-30 is just a Guest Bedroom TV and it is NOT my primary display.

However, I will admit my Panasonic IS professionally calibrated because it made sense to do this and was more cost effective when D-Nice was here recently taking care of my Pioneers.

Also, I do not touch Gamma or Advanced CMS Controls when using a disc. I do not own the $15,000 to $20,000 worth of gear required to do a great job on my displays using advanced controls. I leave that all up to the Pros with the gear and experience.

For me, the Panasonic ST-30 does not have anywhere near the black levels or color accuracy or the Pioneer displays. I would rate the Panasonic ST-30 as a Good Display not a Great display. However, I am spoiled, so maybe I am not the norm as far as consumers / enthusiasts are concerned.

Last but not last, I have seen great Professional Calibrations and not so great Professional calibrations ... and even what I would go so far as to call unacceptable professional calibrations. There are differences and one should be aware of this when spending that much money for a professional calibration.

I agree with most of what you've said, especially the last part. My recent pro calibration would fall in the not so great category and it has more to do with my calibrator's approach to things than the end results shown in the calibration report (which were good for Day mode but just OK for Night mode).
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post #23 of 42 Old 02-27-2012, 07:23 AM
 
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Which is why after spending a few hundred $$$ on two different colorimeters I won't be spending any more money on a "good" but not "great" LG 42LD550. Nor pay hundreds more for maybe getting a good calibration.

The law of diminishing returns would seem to well apply here.

And , no, I won't buy yet another meter and/or a photospectrometer to verify any profiling. On mid and low priced TVs ($400-$1,200 in various sizes) using a media assisted disc for settings and even 2-point gray scale correction results in very good picture quality when viewing actual program material. I sadly find more variation in Blu-ray, DVD and broadcast program material than media assisted settings vs. calibration on the forementioned class of TVs.


And I have added the Disney WOW disc to AVS HD709, AVIA, and DVE as media setting assistance.
So far, I have not noticed any drift in the media discs, low IRE reading issues, or other stability problems.


Previously posted:

"A professional (in my opinion) will typically have a VERY good meter ($8,000 to $15,000 ) and a great Pattern Generator ($1,200 to $5,000) and CalMan Software ($2,500) and a lot of experience (5+ years) and have worked on NUMEROUS Panels and will have mastered calibration to the point of being considered an artist (basically, NOT the Geek Squad guy) and he will charge $400 for each panel and even more for a projector."
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post #24 of 42 Old 02-27-2012, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Phase700B View Post

Which is why after spending a few hundred $$$ on two different colorimeters I won't be spending any more money on a "good" but not "great" LG 42LD550. Nor pay hundreds more for maybe getting a good calibration.

The law of diminishing returns would seem to well apply here.

And , no, I won't buy yet another meter and/or a photospectrometer to verify any profiling. On mid and low priced TVs ($400-$1,200 in various sizes) using a media assisted disc for settings and even 2-point gray scale correction results in very good picture quality when viewing actual program material. I sadly find more variation in Blu-ray, DVD and broadcast program material than media assisted settings vs. calibration on the forementioned class of TVs.


And I have added the Disney WOW disc to AVS HD709, AVIA, and DVE as media setting assistance.
So far, I have not noticed any drift in the media discs, low IRE reading issues, or other stability problems.


Previously posted:

"A professional (in my opinion) will typically have a VERY good meter ($8,000 to $15,000 ) and a great Pattern Generator ($1,200 to $5,000) and CalMan Software ($2,500) and a lot of experience (5+ years) and have worked on NUMEROUS Panels and will have mastered calibration to the point of being considered an artist (basically, NOT the Geek Squad guy) and he will charge $400 for each panel and even more for a projector."

good for you, but don't expect everyone else to share your viewpoint (especially here on a calibration forum)

More specifically, I would say I did end up wasting $375 on a pro calibration that wasn't everything I wanted it to be. However, since I found out that my C6 is accurate for CCFL-LCD's (the issue was only with LED-LCD's), I can calibrate my LG to perfection (in terms of dE being 3 or less) and the time and money spent with that DIY approach is worth it to me. Had I chosen a better calibrator, the $375 or so might have actually been worth it; however, based on what I now know, I don't need a better meter than the C6 nor a better pattern source than the AVS disc on my PS3 to get professional quality results. For the record, I consider my LG to be a great display and an ideal candidate for a full calibration.
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post #25 of 42 Old 02-27-2012, 10:10 AM
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Ok,yes, everybody has an opinion--most all good ones herein.
I personally think calibration got its start in the late 80's and into the 90's even more so.
Well back then every set needed to be converged---Now everything is auto and much better than a calibration could have gotten those older crt sets. Boosting the colors color nowadays doesn't do the damage it did on the ole crt's. Esp. the blooming of old.
However now a days we have so much over scan--in that most sets loose picture size just to loose "picture noise" top and bottom.
I would also think the pace at which technology advances most of us will be wanting to acquiring some of that new stuff and the calibration cost has to be factored in.
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post #26 of 42 Old 02-27-2012, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phase700B View Post

I sadly find more variation in Blu-ray, DVD and broadcast program material than media assisted settings vs. calibration on the forementioned class of TVs.


And I have added the Disney WOW disc to AVS HD709, AVIA, and DVE as media setting assistance.
So far, I have not noticed any drift in the media discs, low IRE reading issues, or other stability problems.


What are you referring to here? I'm not sure what point(s) you're trying to make.
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post #27 of 42 Old 02-27-2012, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by avguygeorge View Post

Ok,yes, everybody has an opinion--most all good ones herein.
I personally think calibration got its start in the late 80's and into the 90's even more so.
Well back then every set needed to be converged---Now everything is auto and much better than a calibration could have gotten those older crt sets. Boosting the colors color nowadays doesn't do the damage it did on the ole crt's. Esp. the blooming of old.
However now a days we have so much over scan--in that most sets loose picture size just to loose "picture noise" top and bottom.
I would also think the pace at which technology advances most of us will be wanting to acquiring some of that new stuff and the calibration cost has to be factored in.

The damage of overscan is not the 1 to 4 % you loose around the edges. (Although that is bad too.) It's the 20% or more you loose in effective pixel count because the display is no longer able to map pixels 1 to 1. One article I read said that at least 95% of consumers are only seeing 720p no matter if their display, cables, or source are 1080p thanks to overscan.
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post #28 of 42 Old 02-27-2012, 10:57 AM
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The damage of overscan is not the 1 to 4 % you loose around the edges. (Although that is bad too.) It's the 20% or more you loose in effective pixel count because the display is no longer able to map pixels 1 to 1. One article I read said that at least 95% of consumers are only seeing 720p no matter if their display, cables, or source are 1080p thanks to overscan.

Yes, I've read that article and it's pretty shocking how one picture setting (typically called picture size/aspect ratio) can change your (native 1080p) TV from running at 720p to running at 1080p. Fixing this takes a few seconds and gives you the full 1080p resolution you paid for.
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post #29 of 42 Old 02-28-2012, 05:56 AM
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Personally, I cannot watch my HDTV if it is not Bit for Bit...the image loses quality in the translation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZandarKoad View Post

The damage of overscan is not the 1 to 4 % you loose around the edges. (Although that is bad too.) It's the 20% or more you loose in effective pixel count because the display is no longer able to map pixels 1 to 1. One article I read said that at least 95% of consumers are only seeing 720p no matter if their display, cables, or source are 1080p thanks to overscan.


Richard J. Casey



Disney WOW - World of Wonder


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post #30 of 42 Old 02-28-2012, 04:02 PM
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Personally, I cannot watch my HDTV if it is not Bit for Bit...the image loses quality in the translation.

Yep, I agree. That's why I have my LG set for Just Scan which is 1:1. I get a little noise at the top from time to time on commercials but that's not a big deal. My eyes aren't what they used to be but switching back and forth between Just Scan, 16:9, or Set By Program is noticeable on some programming.
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