i want to be a calibrator,How do I start training to do so ? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 30 Old 02-29-2012, 04:39 PM - Thread Starter
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..............I'm looking for new career....
....Is this a good Idea ?
& how do I start the process ..........

Mike

JAZZ IS NOT DEAD IT JUST SMELLS FUNNY ; FRANK ZAPPA
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post #2 of 30 Old 02-29-2012, 05:18 PM
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What experience do you have with calibration? Why do you want to get into calibration for a job? A little more information to go off might help people provide you the information you are after.

Chris Heinonen
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post #3 of 30 Old 02-29-2012, 05:19 PM
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You didn't say how knowledgeable you are re: calibrating. If new, a good read is from Tom Huffman for starters - http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=852536

Get software and a meter such as the Display 3 and do as much hands on work as you can. Keep asking questions in this thread. Once you're comfortable with the process, obtain a THX or ISF certification.

Do not expect customers to come pounding on your door as most people have never heard of display calibration....

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post #4 of 30 Old 02-29-2012, 05:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smackrabbit View Post

What experience do you have with calibration? Why do you want to get into calibration for a job? A little more information to go off might help people provide you the information you are after.

I'm a enthusiast just doing my own @ home with calibration disks.
Thinking I would buy some equipment & learn how it's really done. tried to research training but can't seem to find any that start with just basics .

Mike

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post #5 of 30 Old 02-29-2012, 05:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

You didn't say how knowledgeable you are re: calibrating. If new, a good read is from Tom Huffman for starters - http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=852536

Get software and a meter such as the Display 3 and do as much hands on work as you can. Keep asking questions in this thread. Once you're comfortable with the process, obtain a THX or ISF certification.

Do not expect customers to come pounding on your door as most people have never heard of display calibration....

i've seen the ISF certifecation training but ,it would seem that you need to have alot of hands on before that training would do you any good .
Don't want to drop cash on training if it's over my head on a learning curve .
I know that big bucks is not in offing ......Or that I expect a wad of folks bustin down the door ..

Mike

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post #6 of 30 Old 02-29-2012, 05:35 PM
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check these threads:

www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1232093

www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1091254

www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1067744

www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1064325


IMO, start as an Enthusiast...


.

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post #7 of 30 Old 02-29-2012, 05:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Yeah that's the plan ... Thanx gives me some reading to do ....

Mike

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post #8 of 30 Old 02-29-2012, 06:18 PM
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Greetings
http://www.tlvexp.ca/2011/11/so-you-...alibrator-too/

more reading. How the industry actually works ...

Without the Glitz

Regards

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post #9 of 30 Old 02-29-2012, 07:47 PM - Thread Starter
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thanx guys ! Cool i've got a lot research to do .............

Mike

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post #10 of 30 Old 02-29-2012, 09:21 PM
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interesting.
I want to become proficient at equipment assisted calibration.
I just spent some money to do it.
I thought about "hiring" out but don't think I will.

Loving D65
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post #11 of 30 Old 03-01-2012, 06:03 AM
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So, you're all saying that full time calibration is 90% marketing and 10% calibrating? Sounds just like every other field there...

At least, if you are hoping to contract directly with the end user. If not, even if you are working full time as a calibrator for another company, you are in essence paying them to do all the marketing and sales and such.

I would say this is true for any and all businesses. It really doesn't matter how well you do what you do, if you don't have a sustainable method for finding people who will PAY you to do what you do.

Good thing I learned all this about 4 years ago, and have planned accordingly. I've got a growing list of over 20 different marketing concepts for this business. Three websites are already in the works...

Edit: I'm already on these forums, so that means I'm already, automatically one of the top 5% of calibrators in the world, right?
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post #12 of 30 Old 03-01-2012, 06:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok what's the best, most modern equipment to start with ? keeping in mind that i'd be a start-up hobbyist at 1st ? I know Calman would be the start-up software ..

Mike

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post #13 of 30 Old 03-01-2012, 06:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastslappy View Post

Ok what's the best, most modern equipment to start with ? keeping in mind that i'd be a start-up hobbyist at 1st ? I know Calman would be the start-up software ..

Panasonic BDT210 for your source (get Video Forge later) + various calibration discs.
Calman DIY (upgrade to professional later)
i1 Display Pro 3 Retail version (upgrade to i1Pro ASAP)

Calibrate.
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post #14 of 30 Old 03-01-2012, 10:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZandarKoad View Post

Panasonic BDT210 for your source (get Video Forge later) + various calibration discs.
Calman DIY (upgrade to professional later)
i1 Display Pro 3 Retail version (upgrade to i1Pro ASAP)

Calibrate.

is this what I need ?

http://store.spectracal.com/calman-s...splay-pro.html

what's the difference between this & the OEM version

http://store.spectracal.com/calman-s...i1display.html

OR should I just bite the bullet & get the i1pro off the start ? i feel I don;t want to buy one piece of hardware & then right off the bat buy another piece soon after that . like the bundle below

http://store.spectracal.com/consumer...e-w-i1pro.html

& why the Panny Blu-Ray player my Sony will not work ?

I assume that I;ll need a Laptop as well , so the add-on PC license I would have to buy now as I don't want to use my old laptop & I have a HTPC that I want to use to start with then add the software to a new Laptop down the road .

Mike

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post #15 of 30 Old 03-01-2012, 10:47 AM
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The PC license enable you to calibrate PC monitors, not to use the software on a PC.

You can use the CalMAN DIY on any computer or laptop. Problem is, PCs aren't portable enough.

ISF Calibrator

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Pioneer Kuro BDP-320

Displays are like 100% cotton t-shirts. Always buy a size larger than you think you'll need, as they tend to shrink over time.
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post #16 of 30 Old 03-01-2012, 10:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsskid View Post

The PC license enable you to calibrate PC monitors, not to use the software on a PC.

You can use the CalMAN DIY on any computer or laptop. Problem is, PCs aren't portable enough.

I would want to use the software on my HTPC now & then have it to use on a future Laptop

Mike

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post #17 of 30 Old 03-01-2012, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastslappy View Post

I would want to use the software on my HTPC now & then have it to use on a future Laptop

If you buy the PC client add-on you get 3 license. This will let you install it on 3 pc. On each pc you can have as many profiles as you have displays.
If your HTPC runs windows it will work just fine.
I have used it on all my monitors and projector that I plug my laptop (no htpc) into, as well as my desk top and it does a real nice job. If you have a flat panel and a projector connected to your HTPC you will be able to have 2 profile and switch between them. Of course you need a meter and Calman for any of this to work..
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post #18 of 30 Old 03-01-2012, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastslappy View Post

& why the Panny Blu-Ray player my Sony will not work ?

Some of the Sony players (at least the versions I tested, with the firmware versions available when I tested) incorrectly decode the 4:2:0 Blu-ray content to other colorspaces (4:2:2, 4:4:4, or RGB) and so the data is incorrect. Calibrating from this will lead to an image that is incorrect, and a loss of dynamic range, highlights, shadows, incorrect colors, etc...

More details on this can be found in these articles:

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/techn...roduction.html

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/techn...follow-up.html

The Panasonic BDT-210 is perfect (with correct menu settings, please read my review of that to make sure you set it up correctly) at those three options. If you are going to be using this as a main calibration source, I really highly recommend the Oppo BDP-93 player (or the 95 if you want the better audio) as the Source Direct option lets you get an ideal setup with a video processor like a Lumagen Radiance or DVDO Duo. It's more expensive, but it has the best performance of anything out there.

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post #19 of 30 Old 03-01-2012, 12:35 PM - Thread Starter
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So when you are going to a customer home to do a Cal does one bring a Blu-Ray player ?
Seems one would NOT bring in a outside player as how would you give the best cal for the equipment the customer has? this will play into the Marketing/salesmanship thing I would guess .
Yes for my own personal Cal's I would want the players you suggest , but on doing cal's for a customer would that be the best move ?
Seems to me that the Best value that a calibrator could offer would be a Happy Camper with the owners own equipment .

Mike

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post #20 of 30 Old 03-01-2012, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smackrabbit View Post

Some of the Sony players (at least the versions I tested, with the firmware versions available when I tested) incorrectly decode the 4:2:0 Blu-ray content to other colorspaces (4:2:2, 4:4:4, or RGB) and so the data is incorrect. Calibrating from this will lead to an image that is incorrect, and a loss of dynamic range, highlights, shadows, incorrect colors, etc...

More details on this can be found in these articles:

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/techn...roduction.html

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/techn...follow-up.html

The Panasonic BDT-210 is perfect (with correct menu settings, please read my review of that to make sure you set it up correctly) at those three options. If you are going to be using this as a main calibration source, I really highly recommend the Oppo BDP-93 player (or the 95 if you want the better audio) as the Source Direct option lets you get an ideal setup with a video processor like a Lumagen Radiance or DVDO Duo. It's more expensive, but it has the best performance of anything out there.

So I have the 210 and want to use it as my calibration source.. you review does not really say what is best just that all are correct and to do the following...
On our HDMI Bench Tests, I'm very happy to say that the Panasonic was perfect at 4:2:2, 4:4:4 and RGB colorspaces. The one note on this is that the picture options (found during playback by hitting the Display button, not in the main menus) must be in Standard mode, with Enhanced Chroma disabled. I must say I don't understand why companies put these options in there, and separate them from the rest of the video option in the Setup screens. When any of these options were changed, the video that was being output was no longer correct.

So which color space to use and WHY?

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post #21 of 30 Old 03-01-2012, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airscapes View Post

So I have the 210 and want to use it as my calibration source.. you review does not really say what is best just that all are correct and to do the following...
On our HDMI Bench Tests, I'm very happy to say that the Panasonic was perfect at 4:2:2, 4:4:4 and RGB colorspaces. The one note on this is that the picture options (found during playback by hitting the Display button, not in the main menus) must be in Standard mode, with Enhanced Chroma disabled. I must say I don't understand why companies put these options in there, and separate them from the rest of the video option in the Setup screens. When any of these options were changed, the video that was being output was no longer correct.

So which color space to use and WHY?


Which colorspace is dependent on your display and display chain. Perhaps your display can do 422 and 444 perfectly, and your receiver can do 444 and RGB perfectly, in that case you would want to use 444. You want to determine what your display can do first, then check and see if the other components you have handle those colorspaces just as well. You can use Spears and Munsil to determine this by reading the article here:

http://www.spearsandmunsil.com/artic...olorspace.html

With the Panasonic, you need to be in Standard mode, with Advanced Chroma off. I also disable Deep Color and anything else that isn't needed when I do the testing. The important thing is that the Panasonic does the colorspaces correctly, which means you can use it to find out if your equipment does it correctly or not.

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post #22 of 30 Old 03-01-2012, 01:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastslappy View Post

So when you are going to a customer home to do a Cal does one bring a Blu-Ray player ?

Fastslappy, be aware that CalMAN DIY does not grant you a License to use CalMAN when you are calibrating customer's Displays... For CalMAN, you need Expert ($1495) or Commercial ($2495) License.

CalMAN DIY will work on calibrating your own Displays to gain experience.

You will also want a Pattern Generator when it's time to start calibrating Customer Displays. You could purchase one of the new ones, Accupel, Video Forge, Quantum Data or you could also start out with a used Accupel.

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post #23 of 30 Old 03-01-2012, 02:03 PM
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@Smackrabbit
Ok, so I ordered the disk and read most of the article. In the mean time.. what should be chosen? Do I have to run through a dozen tests to figure out what to set my source to when I calibrate a TV that my source will not stay attached to? I mean what does a Video generator output? Should I just go with 4:2:2 and let the TV do it's thing right or wrong? Or is RGB better? I under stand it depends.. so if you can not or won't take the time to run all those bench mark test what do you do, flip a coin and hope for the best?
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post #24 of 30 Old 03-01-2012, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastslappy View Post

So when you are going to a customer home to do a Cal does one bring a Blu-Ray player ?
Seems one would NOT bring in a outside player as how would you give the best cal for the equipment the customer has? this will play into the Marketing/salesmanship thing I would guess .
Yes for my own personal Cal's I would want the players you suggest , but on doing cal's for a customer would that be the best move ?
Seems to me that the Best value that a calibrator could offer would be a Happy Camper with the owners own equipment .

No, you wouldn't bring in an outside blue ray player if you have the cash to drop on a proper signal generator. That is a big if. Otherwise, yes, bring in a 'perfect' blu ray player to correct the display's inputs for sources such as satellite receivers or cable boxes. I read here that it is also recommended that you calibrate the input itself first, before hooking up the customer's own bluray player, and correcting for it's errors using a calibration disk. That may be a slightly anal way of doing things though.

But the above only matters if each separate input on the display has it's own individual adjustment memory. Some displays apply one single memory across all inputs...
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post #25 of 30 Old 03-01-2012, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airscapes View Post

@Smackrabbit
Ok, so I ordered the disk and read most of the article. In the mean time.. what should be chosen? Do I have to run through a dozen tests to figure out what to set my source to when I calibrate a TV that my source will not stay attached to? I mean what does a Video generator output? Should I just go with 4:2:2 and let the TV do it's thing right or wrong? Or is RGB better? I under stand it depends.. so if you can not or won't take the time to run all those bench mark test what do you do, flip a coin and hope for the best?

What a pattern generator outputs depends on the generator. Most should give you an option for what colorspace you want to use, so you can do 422, 444, RGB and easily switch between them. Most also probably have a high resolution chroma pattern in them, as well as high resolution luma patterns, that can you use to see what a display handles best. Also, some displays might only allow certain controls when fed a YCbCr signal and offer refer with an RGB signal.

Much like with the Spears and Munsil patterns, you can see a loss of chroma or luma resolution when fed a colorspace that a display does poorly with. It shouldn't be too hard to determine which is correct when you know what to look for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZandarKoad View Post

No, you wouldn't bring in an outside blue ray player if you have the cash to drop on a proper signal generator. That is a big if. Otherwise, yes, bring in a 'perfect' blu ray player to correct the display's inputs for sources such as satellite receivers or cable boxes. I read here that it is also recommended that you calibrate the input itself first, before hooking up the customer's own bluray player, and correcting for it's errors using a calibration disk. That may be a slightly anal way of doing things though.

But the above only matters if each separate input on the display has it's own individual adjustment memory. Some displays apply one single memory across all inputs...

Using a Blu-ray player is fine for doing a calibration yourself and learning, but is not OK for doing a calibration professionally. Besides the fact that it would take forever to do the calibration compared to a pattern generator, I'm fairly certain the ISF won't even list you as a calibrator with one (I know I had to pass along my serial numbers to be listed), and I have no idea about THX. You need that reference source that is directly controlled to be able to do it at any sort of speed and accuracy. Checking at the end with their equipment is always something you should do, but if the device is bad, I wouldn't correct the input to fix it, I'd fix the device since that's a better alternative (and not too expensive).

Chris Heinonen
Senior Editor, Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity, www.hometheaterhifi.com
Displays Editor, AnandTech.com
Contributor, HDGuru.com and Wirecutter.com
ISF Level II Certified Calibrator, ReferenceHomeTheater.com
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post #26 of 30 Old 03-01-2012, 04:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smackrabbit View Post

Using a Blu-ray player is fine for doing a calibration yourself and learning, but is not OK for doing a calibration professionally. Besides the fact that it would take forever to do the calibration compared to a pattern generator, I'm fairly certain the ISF won't even list you as a calibrator with one (I know I had to pass along my serial numbers to be listed), and I have no idea about THX. You need that reference source that is directly controlled to be able to do it at any sort of speed and accuracy. Checking at the end with their equipment is always something you should do, but if the device is bad, I wouldn't correct the input to fix it, I'd fix the device since that's a better alternative (and not too expensive).

I wouldn't define a professional as someone who has a certification though. I guess in it's most basic sense a professional is simply one who professes. "So, what do you do for a living?", "I'm a calibrator." Poof, you're a professional. But yeah, a Blu-Ray is a 100% wannabe, soontobe, gonnabe, can't-quite-afford-it calibrator. Nevertheless, it is better than nothing and should still result in an accurate calibration if given the time (and your recommendations on Blu-Ray make/model). That's why I recommend it to those just starting out <*cough* myself *cough*>. Like you said, good for friends and family. Heaven forbid someone should pay you for it.

The question I have now, is which comes first, Calman Professional or Pattern Generator?
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post #27 of 30 Old 03-01-2012, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by ZandarKoad View Post

The question I have now, is which comes first, Calman Professional or Pattern Generator?

You can't automate most of the professional grade generators without a pro license, so I'm gonna have to say the software.

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post #28 of 30 Old 03-01-2012, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by sotti View Post

You can't automate most of the professional grade generators without a pro license, so I'm gonna have to say the software.

Yeah, that's probably what I'll do. I like that answer better than, "NO, BUY BOTH RIGHT NOW!!!" Which is what I keep hearing in my head.
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post #29 of 30 Old 03-01-2012, 05:55 PM - Thread Starter
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so rather than buy the calman DIY & then have to buy the Expert or Pro later it's best to get the pro ?
Does the $1,500 package make any sense ?
this one ? http://store.spectracal.com/review/p...9/category/41/
or get the package deal this one ??
http://store.spectracal.com/consumer...ge-w-case.html

I was looking to buy a DVDO iScan Duo anyway for the house .....
I really would want the equipment to use out in the field than have to buy the stuff twice

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post #30 of 30 Old 03-01-2012, 05:59 PM
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You can upgrade from DIY to either Expert or Commercial later (just contact their sales) once you are ready to calibrating customer displays..

If you were to go with the Pro versions now, I'd start with Expert unless you have one of the high-end meters (expensive) that Commercial requires.

If you want a Duo (I have one as well), that 2nd package you linked isn't that bad.. you may be able to call them and work out a better deal including a VideoForge pattern generator and i1 Pro spectro (both can be added later) --- I would seriously consider budgeting in the future for a Spectro, at least the i1Pro... with any of the Colorimeters including the SpectraCal C6.

I'd say get a pattern generator, even if you decide to go with CalMAN and the DIY version (you need the Pattern Generator addon)... used Accepels are not that much when they are up for sale EDIT: oops, that's right, SpectraCal changed the PatGen Addon and removed the Accupels.. boo not an issue with Expert though

IMO You should know how to manually control the pattern generators and know which pattern is expected at any given moment anyways

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