Calibration questions with calMAN (stumped) - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 11 Old 03-02-2012, 01:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey all,

I'm trying to get a calibration going with calMAN v.4. that a friend let me borrow, apparently the professional version. He said its an easy walkthrough and I'd be done in less than an hour. Five and a half hrs later, I'm stumped.

My tv is a sony bravia KDL-46v5100 and a eye one display 2 meter, but its an older one, sold by Pantone, and has 'greytag macbeth' on the front of it. The TV is hooked up to HDMI 1, PC hooked up to HDMI 4. Blu ray player is BDP-S360. Everything is hooked up through my Denon AVR. Should I not do this? I'm doing the calibration in a dark environment also.

I dont have a laptop so I installed it onto my win 7 desktop PC and hooked it up to the tv using an HDMI cable and got a display on the tv from the pc. Went through the introduction. It showed a simulated meter at first but in the dropdown menu my meter is there but is colored red but allows me to choose it.
Next I go to the source settings and choose AVS calibration blu ray disk 1.3 but I have AVSHD v. 2.1 and choose sony blu ray players for source. Next is meter menu, it says no initialization is required for this meter.

So i clicked the green 'standard_dcc' workflow. In my profile it goes back to generic meter and I have to pick my meter again only now its not red, its just normal white text and AVS calibration blu ray is chosen as source.

So I do the read on RGB, thats done, when I get to the brightness settings/contrast screens it says to click the lower right to bring up patterns but it never does on either screen. If I select 'prompt for pattern change' it prompts to bring up a 70% greyscale from the blu ray disc but I have to switch inputs on the TV to get one, so the reading cant take place. Getting to the luminance screen, it says to adjust the backlight while reading to see where to set but it never changes, just stays at 29.xxx. Its supposed to be between 30-40L for movie viewing.

I got to gamma point, that works, but the strange part is AT NO TIME during this calibration do I use the meter I have. Granted my TV is not the newest or most advanced but every video i've seen on youtube shows a meter placed on the screen doing its thing, and also how am I supposed to get the patterns up from the blu ray player when its connected to another HDMI input? Basically what I'm doing is calibrating the HDMI 4 input, not the HDMI 1 input used by the TV.

One thing that I did like was the white balance adjustments at the end, at least it let me do that and get them fairly accurate.

This has me very dumbfounded to say the least. Any help or a quick walkthrough would be greatly appreciated.
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post #2 of 11 Old 03-02-2012, 02:15 PM
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Sounds like you may have a licensing issue with your meter.

If we find the meter, but show it in red that means you don't have a license to use the meter.

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post #3 of 11 Old 03-02-2012, 02:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

Sounds like you may have a licensing issue with your meter.

If we find the meter, but show it in red that means you don't have a license to use the meter.

Ah that's what I thought. It didn't come up in the search either. It is pretty outdated, probably a few years old.

Bummer.
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post #4 of 11 Old 03-02-2012, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dunan View Post

Ah that's what I thought. It didn't come up in the search either. It is pretty outdated, probably a few years old.

Bummer.

What meter is it exactly?
Are you sure you have the software licensed.

We should support all of the i1 Display2 meters.

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post #5 of 11 Old 03-02-2012, 03:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

What meter is it exactly?
Are you sure you have the software licensed.

We should support all of the i1 Display2 meters.

I have no idea, it's a friend's that works at best buy. I asked him what they use for the geek squad and said its precision equipment, its not worth the cost for my kind of tv and to try his copy of calMAN.

The meter I have is specifically this one.





Like I said, I was mainly after white balance adjustments which it did help with. It's still not perfect but it's a lot better than what it was. Seeing as I have an entry level bravia, I'm not sure how accurate I can get it anyway with the few adjustments it has to work with.
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post #6 of 11 Old 03-02-2012, 04:05 PM
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ahhhh you've got a best buy license.

The i1 Display2 isn't licensed for best buy, so that would be the problem.
The best buy license pretty much only supports the best buy hardware.

I'm not sure how you managed to adjust white balance, you can't do that without a working meter.

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post #7 of 11 Old 03-02-2012, 06:44 PM
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The meter should work with ColorHCFR, which is free. The meter may have drifted some with time, so it may not be completely accurate. Even learning how to take basic measurements can take some time. There is http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457 if you get stuck, for example step 1.3 is necessary to use the meter with ColorHCFR.
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post #8 of 11 Old 03-02-2012, 07:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by alluringreality View Post

The meter should work with ColorHCFR, which is free. The meter may have drifted some with time, so it may not be completely accurate. Even learning how to take basic measurements can take some time. There is http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457 if you get stuck, for example step 1.3 is necessary to use the meter with ColorHCFR.

I'm afraid of the learning curve with HCFR to be honest. So what I'm understanding after talking to my friend is that I don't use the pc as the monitor unless I'm calibrating the tv but hook up the tv also to the pc and use the monitor to do the adjustments? So can I still hook up the pc to the tv with HDMI and have the pc monitor hooked up DVI?
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post #9 of 11 Old 03-02-2012, 07:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

ahhhh you've got a best buy license.

The i1 Display2 isn't licensed for best buy, so that would be the problem.
The best buy license pretty much only supports the best buy hardware.

I'm not sure how you managed to adjust white balance, you can't do that without a working meter.

Best buy license. Ill have to talk to my knucklehead friend lol. What I did was at the end of the calibration I did a read where the colored triangle comes up with the boxes and trying to get the circles closest to inside the boxes as possible. I'd adjust a red bias etc., take a reading and adjust the white balance some more until I got the readings straight across the RGB scale and they were virtually even across but the yellow, magenta and cyan were still a little off, especially the yellow.
Was it not supposed to do that if the meter wasn't working with it?
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post #10 of 11 Old 03-02-2012, 08:20 PM
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Hey guys, I'm new to using CalMan 4x and the C6 Kit, have a bit of a handle on the software/workflows/etc, but I am a bit confused or missing pieces of information that is likely easy for an experienced calibrator with similar equipment or experience.

Here's the list (sorry for the quantity):

1. Selecting Gamma, general theory/question: If two gamma setting (say, settings on the display of 1 & 2) produces reasonable results around the target multiplier desired, but a setting of 1 produces a worse error on the low end and a setting of 2 produces a larger error on the high end. Which, based on experience, is the better choice/will provide the better outcome?

2. What if the tracking is better on 1 (depending upon the answer to Q#2), but the setting of 3 provides the same relative amount of error, but in the middle of the scale (say 50%white), which is preferable? 1 or 3's error location?

3. Would one need to calibrate a display completely through for each gamma point to ensure the correct one was selected for the display? Or, is this a performance issue of the display, not affected by the end result. Or is this essentially true, but beyond reasonable unless one had unlimited time to find an exact sweet spot that will change over time?

4. When adjusting White Balance, the process for two points I understand to be: measure at 30% & 80% (assuming there is only an RGBgain/bias adj). So, what's the best process after that?

Example: 30% 110 DE, 80% 90DE. Adjust the 30% until closest to 3, then re-measure both 30% & 80% and work on worse again, because the adjustments at 30% impact the 80% measurements? Or, not at all, since we are measuring some fixed response based on the gamma multiplier? Or, I am lost, here's the common/best technique: . .?

5. In the ..Practical Guide to Display Calibration.., Section 3, Color Gamut (which is sequenced after Section 2, Grayscale Tracking). A couple of parts are confusing me here. One, I am not currently using a VideoProcessor, so is it a moot point, skip to the next step in the workflow -re-check (visually) the brightness/contrast/luminance/color (saturation & hue)? What I think confuses me here are two things:

In Section 4, Picture Controls, 4. Adjust Color: it states that Earlier, we adjusted the color by taking measurements through the meter. Now, at this step, we do further adjustments by using a visual blue-filter technique. If I skip this step does it impact the White Balance? Hence, I need to either adjust the initial saturation/hue by taking measurements or do a visual setting of saturation/hue with an SMPTE and blue filter at this point to get a more accurate white balance correction?

The reason I am asking this is that in the newest version of CalMAN 4.5xxx (my current version with updates), the Color Gamut is in the workflow before the Grayscale (in the Practical Guide it is sequenced after). I think this is what really made me question skipping the step, but I not sure if I should do this visually or via measurement, to ensure the most accurate grayscale adjustments.

Side issue: Neither of the Blu-ray discs options that come with the C6 kit have 75% Primary & Secondary individual colors that I can find (JKP DVE Basic Blu-ray or Spears & Munsel Blu-ray). It seems like since I have one system that is currently 720p, the
AVCHD is great for my not yet having graduation to a pattern generator with all the pattern resolutions I might need.

6. Here was a question I was posing to DisplayMate. Also, to SpectraCal, but haven't gotten back anything yet. Maybe you can shed some light on it. NON HTPC: if the USB drive were plugged into the monitor, then how would one switch patterns? They told me to contact SpectraCal. Also, if the DisplayMate were USB'd in to a laptop, which has CalMAN on it and HDMI out, would this possibly be a way to accurately calibrate a display? It would be very interesting to have the patterns local to my laptop running Calman and my C6. I have so much catching up to do, it seems simpler to ask than exhaustive research online to keep trying to figure out what works with what sometimes.

7. There has to be some sort of guide to what all the settings do and are intended for in CalMAN 4.xx, is there a copy to be had?

Gotta love the quest.... T.
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post #11 of 11 Old 03-11-2012, 04:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

ahhhh you've got a best buy license.

The i1 Display2 isn't licensed for best buy, so that would be the problem.
The best buy license pretty much only supports the best buy hardware.

I'm not sure how you managed to adjust white balance, you can't do that without a working meter.

Yup, I thought it was working but it wasn't cause I didn't know what to look for apparently. My friend let me borrow his copy after I told him about the best buy copy so I got it sorted out and calibrated. I'll post the charts later.
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