Desperately need help with my new Cinema Display 27" don't know what to do - AVS Forum
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Old 03-09-2012, 12:22 PM - Thread Starter
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i only have a few more days left before my 30 day return time frame is up. i am in a big bind.

basically i've been wanting this monitor and saving for a long time and finally was able to buy it couple weeks ago. at first i didn't think much cause it just looked so nice, colors are vibrant, much better than my previous C-PVA panel from Samsung F2380 (which suffered from black crush issues).

a couple days ago, i decided to bust out my Spyder2 Pro to do a calibration and tincker around and started doing some testing. the reason i decided to do this was because i started to notice some what i thought was backlight bleed while gaming at night in a dark room. but after doing some display uniformity test, it turned out the majority of what i thought was backlight bleed was actually IPS glow. so that set my mine to ease. the overall uniformity of the display is less than 11% deviation across all 9 quadrants of the monitor, which is IMO very good for a none professional (Lacie, or Eizo) monitor.

but here's the real problem, i moved onto contrast ratio testing. i like running my display at roughly 200~210cd/m2 brightness. but at that brightness, the Spyder2 registered a 0.6cd/m2 reading for black. the darkest reading i could get from other area of the panel was 0.57cd/m2, which is still alarmingly high consider most reviews i read online saying this display should have around 0.25cd/m2 black at 200cd/m2 brightness level. which means, at 0.6cd/m2, it puts my current display at roughtly 333:1 contrast ratio, as oppose to what should be roughly 840:1 real world testing based on other online reviews, since other reviewers are getting 0.25cd/m2 reading at 200cd/m2 brightness.

i am at a bind. i don't know if this is because my Spyder2 is not designed to calibrate LED backlit panel "or" because my monitor is inherently defective. i don't know which it is.

the only way i can get a 840:1 (ish) contrast reading is lowering the brightness all the way down to two bars, which is something like 40~80cd/m2 (can't remember on top of my head). and at the lowest lowest brightness setting, which i don't think anyone should ever use this setting in real world... at 24cd/m2 brightness.. the black is registered 0.001cd/m2, or roughly some 24000:1 contrast.. but no one is going to run the monitor at that level, or anything other than at least 50% brightness.

so basically at 100cd/m2 brightness level the contrast is stil at 335:1 (ish), and the same with 200cd/m2, and same with 372cd/m2. if i boost the brightness all the way up to full (372cd/m2), black level actually registered whopping 1.17cd/m2!!!.

i don't know if this is just the Spyder2 that i have that's having trouble with the LED panel, or that my LED panel is defective. other than that.. this monitor is awsome... with great colors.. and after calibration it looks even better with DeltaE less than 1 (0.7 to be exact). it has a little bit of backlight bleed at the lower left but is generally pretty uniform, and is not plagued by yellow tinge issue that previously reported by other 24" owners.

the contrast looks fine in a regular lit room to my eye..

i just don't know what to do.. should i return it.. and go through another round of monitor lottery? (i already had to previously returned one cause last time i ordered the wrong one. I ordered the Thunderbolt display, as oppose to one with the display port)

TV: Samsung 60inch 60ES8000 LED TV,
Sound System: Pioneer VSX 1120-K, 2x JBL Stadium fronts, 1x JBL EC35 center, 4x JBL L820 surrounds, 1x JBL SUB12 for a complete 7.1
Headphones: Sennheiser HD598, HD650 headphone, Audio Technica ATH-AD700, AD900X
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Old 03-09-2012, 01:09 PM
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The spyder 2 is woefully under qualified to calibrate an LED lit LCD.

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Old 03-09-2012, 01:31 PM - Thread Starter
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but i just want to be sure that it's not the monitor...

what does a 350:1 monitor suppose to look like anyway... is it a visible difference between a 840:1?

how much of a visual difference is between 0.6cd/m2 and 0.25cd/2. i just wish i know if it's the monitor or the calibrator.

TV: Samsung 60inch 60ES8000 LED TV,
Sound System: Pioneer VSX 1120-K, 2x JBL Stadium fronts, 1x JBL EC35 center, 4x JBL L820 surrounds, 1x JBL SUB12 for a complete 7.1
Headphones: Sennheiser HD598, HD650 headphone, Audio Technica ATH-AD700, AD900X
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Old 03-09-2012, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

The spyder 2 is woefully under qualified to calibrate an LED lit LCD.

how about the new Spyder 4?
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Old 03-09-2012, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by howzz1854 View Post

but i just want to be sure that it's not the monitor...

what does a 350:1 monitor suppose to look like anyway... is it a visible difference between a 840:1?

how much of a visual difference is between 0.6cd/m2 and 0.25cd/2. i just wish i know if it's the monitor or the calibrator.

it's not incredibly different, but it does make a difference.

The only way you'll know for sure is with a better tool.

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Old 03-09-2012, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

how about the new Spyder 4?

The spyder4 does have LED tables from the factory and should have much better dynamic range than a spyder2, so it would get the job done. They don't perform as well as the i1D3s though.

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Old 03-09-2012, 01:53 PM - Thread Starter
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what about i1D2. i don't see it on their feature list. but some say it supports LED.

only reason is because i1D2 can be had for less than $100 on amazon as oppose to double the price for a D3.

TV: Samsung 60inch 60ES8000 LED TV,
Sound System: Pioneer VSX 1120-K, 2x JBL Stadium fronts, 1x JBL EC35 center, 4x JBL L820 surrounds, 1x JBL SUB12 for a complete 7.1
Headphones: Sennheiser HD598, HD650 headphone, Audio Technica ATH-AD700, AD900X
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Old 03-09-2012, 02:31 PM
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i1D2's are also a 5 or 6 year old design that is very long in the tooth and ships with a CRT table and a CCFL LCD table.

The spyder4 or a colormunki Display are the lowest price meters that come from the factory with LED table that I know of.

SpectraCal does sell a recalibrated i1 Display2 call the M2 that has an LED table with it.

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Old 03-09-2012, 03:13 PM - Thread Starter
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don't mean to be a pain in the rear.. but i am just trying to do this the most economical way..

i just found out that my work has a Spyder3Elite stashed all the way in the machine room. it never hit me that i work in the television industry that i should've check with the guys at work and see if we have one.

do you think the Spyder3 Elite will work? didn't Colorvision just release their V4 software that supposedly works with Spyder3 pro/elite as well?

i am just really trying not to spend another $200 on a piece of hardware and then find out it's not the calibrator, but the monitor. then again... if i were to return the monitor and get a replacement and find out later that it's not the monitor but the calibrator... that's even more work to go through. consider there's always a chance that the replacement monitor might have a worse panel uniformity or backlight bleed.

TV: Samsung 60inch 60ES8000 LED TV,
Sound System: Pioneer VSX 1120-K, 2x JBL Stadium fronts, 1x JBL EC35 center, 4x JBL L820 surrounds, 1x JBL SUB12 for a complete 7.1
Headphones: Sennheiser HD598, HD650 headphone, Audio Technica ATH-AD700, AD900X
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Old 03-09-2012, 03:26 PM
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The Spyder3 is an excellent meter as long you have a good one, they still had issues with consistent accuracy from the Spyder 2 days (not as bad but it's estimated close to 1/3 could be suspect). I have a Spyder 3 that was checked/tested and it does a great job with most displays using HCFR. I keep it properly stored but at almost 2 years old it's time for a new meter/spectro. Maybe consider trying the M2 that Joel (sotti) mentioned above.

Best of Luck,
Jason
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Old 03-09-2012, 03:29 PM - Thread Starter
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so does anyone have an opinion on whether it's the monitor or the calibrator, or are we all in agreement that it's more likely the calibrator (ie. colormeter).

TV: Samsung 60inch 60ES8000 LED TV,
Sound System: Pioneer VSX 1120-K, 2x JBL Stadium fronts, 1x JBL EC35 center, 4x JBL L820 surrounds, 1x JBL SUB12 for a complete 7.1
Headphones: Sennheiser HD598, HD650 headphone, Audio Technica ATH-AD700, AD900X
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Old 03-10-2012, 12:48 AM - Thread Starter
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just wanna give everyone an update.

after i got home and tried the Spyder3 Elite, the result was much better. it registered black level of 0.33cd/m2 at 205cd/m2 brightness, and 0.41cd/m2 at 256cd/m2 brightness making it 624:1 contrast. after calibration, it registered 0.41cd/m2 at 227cd/m2 brightness (or 553:1 contrast). these figures are more in line with what they should be. although something tells me i1D2 Pro or the Munki will probably perform even better, and do a even better job of calibration. this concludes one thing for me... TRASH THE SPYDER 2.

and just for information, i asked a friend of mine to run a similar Spyder2 pro test on his Dell U2711 wide gamma monitor. since both the Dell U2711 and ACD 27 LED share the same underlying LG panel, i'd figure it should be interesting to see the results. surprisingly, he regitstered 0.72cd/m2 for black at 200cd/m2 brightness level, that's even worse than what i was getting.

so lesson of the day.. if you have a wide gamma monitor, or LED backlit monitor... don't use the Spyder2. or better.. don't use Spyders. maybe Spyder 4, but i am more inclined to go with the i1D pro. i did quite a bit of research on colorimeter reviews... apparently Spyders are weak on dark measurements. so there you have it.

TV: Samsung 60inch 60ES8000 LED TV,
Sound System: Pioneer VSX 1120-K, 2x JBL Stadium fronts, 1x JBL EC35 center, 4x JBL L820 surrounds, 1x JBL SUB12 for a complete 7.1
Headphones: Sennheiser HD598, HD650 headphone, Audio Technica ATH-AD700, AD900X
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