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Display Calibration

chrisp9446's Avatar chrisp9446
10:14 PM Liked: 10
post #1 of 25
03-12-2012 | Posts: 84
Joined: Nov 2008
I've been working on calibrating my 55ST30 and have come across a couple problems, so any advice would be appreciated. I'm certainly not an expert, but I would like to get the picture the best I can, so let me know anything you think I can do to improve it.

Setup:
i1 Display 3 colorimeter
CalMAN v4
GetGray DVD
OPPO BDP-80 --HDMI--> H/K AVR-254 --HDMI--> TC-P55ST30 (>200hrs)

The OPPO is set to upscale to 1080p and output YCbCr 4:2:2, and the receiver is set to pass-through.

Two issues that are apparent to me:
* I've been toying with a day (custom) and a night (cinema) mode, but can't seem to get enough luminance out of these modes. I've seen some other calibrations with a 47ftL day mode and 35ftL night mode, but I'm around 30ftL and 23ftL, respectively.
* I seem to have a severe issue with green luminance. Is this how the "green blob" manifests itself when looking at it with an instrument? Is an external VP the only solution for this? Any chance Panasonic would accept that it's a defect?

Graphs, etc. to follow.

Thanks for any and all help!
chrisp9446's Avatar chrisp9446
10:15 PM Liked: 10
post #2 of 25
03-12-2012 | Posts: 84
Joined: Nov 2008
Cinema mode (night)

Contrast - 60
Brightness - 57
Color - 50
Tint - 3
Warm2

HDMI mode -- graphics

I did the calibration in the service menu using rcut/rdrv and bcut/bdrv. The exact values won't really be of any help, but can post them if needed.

With any contrast above 60, there was no impact on luminance or anything else.
LL
LL
chrisp9446's Avatar chrisp9446
10:15 PM Liked: 10
post #3 of 25
03-12-2012 | Posts: 84
Joined: Nov 2008
Custom mode (day)

Contrast - 75
Brightness - 57
Color - 52
Tint - 2
Gamma - 2.2
Normal temp, but changed normal settings to match warm settings in service menu as a baseline.
Brightness - Mid
HDMI mode -- graphics

High R - -2
High G - 0
High B - 9
Low R - 3
Low G - 0
Low B - -2

I settled on a contrast of 75 because above that, I would gain ~5ftL, but get a horrendous gamma curve, especially at 80IRE and 90IRE.
LL
LL
gremmy's Avatar gremmy
10:19 AM Liked: 17
post #4 of 25
03-13-2012 | Posts: 3,942
Joined: Sep 2003
After following the ST30 thread over in the plasma forum, doing my own calibration (similar to yours), and talking to several owners and at least one calibrator, I've come to the conclusion that the people getting 47 ftL on these sets are taking their measurements on a smaller window pattern. The smaller window is brighter because there is less ABL. Your set is just as bright as mine. I get 33 ftL on Mid Panel brightness with an almost perfect calibration using the standard window patterns on the AVS HD 709 Test Disc.

My television suddenly seemed to get a lot brighter (although max white did not increase in ftL) when I fixed the high end gamma with my video processor. On my set there was a dip around 70 or 80 IRE and then a flight to the stratosphere at 90 that really made the bright scenes look dull, lifeless and dim.

The overly bright green primary is present on my set is well. It can only be fixed with an external video processor. I purchased a used Lumagen HDQ which allowed me to dial in my colors just about perfect. It also helped with the nasty humps in gamma and made my grayscale even cleaner.

And no, the overly bright green primary is not related to the green blob. The green blob is a panel uniformity issue. So far I do not have it.
buzzard767's Avatar buzzard767
11:08 AM Liked: 1027
post #5 of 25
03-13-2012 | Posts: 4,195
Joined: Dec 2005
The following report is from an ST30 I did last fall. Output was about 35fL using Accupel window patterns and it had zero green issues.

Perhaps your set is defective.

 

Schlapi ST30ReducedSize.pdf 448.3984375k . file
Attached: Schlapi ST30ReducedSize.pdf (448.4 KB) 
chrisp9446's Avatar chrisp9446
11:33 AM Liked: 10
post #6 of 25
03-13-2012 | Posts: 84
Joined: Nov 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by gremmy View Post

After following the ST30 thread over in the plasma forum, doing my own calibration (similar to yours), and talking to several owners and at least one calibrator, I've come to the conclusion that the people getting 47 ftL on these sets are taking their measurements on a smaller window pattern. The smaller window is brighter because there is less ABL. Your set is just as bright as mine. I get 33 ftL on Mid Panel brightness with an almost perfect calibration using the standard window patterns on the AVS HD 709 Test Disc.

My television suddenly seemed to get a lot brighter (although max white did not increase in ftL) when I fixed the high end gamma with my video processor. On my set there was a dip around 70 or 80 IRE and then a flight to the stratosphere at 90 that really made the bright scenes look dull, lifeless and dim.

The overly bright green primary is present on my set is well. It can only be fixed with an external video processor. I purchased a used Lumagen HDQ which allowed me to dial in my colors just about perfect. It also helped with the nasty humps in gamma and made my grayscale even cleaner.

And no, the overly bright green primary is not related to the green blob. The green blob is a panel uniformity issue. So far I do not have it.

Thanks for the comments. Yeah, I have been following your trek to get your set in shape and it looks like you did finally get everything in line with the VP. I wish (probably like you did) that there was some easy/cheap way to just alter the green primary without having to get a video processor (a pipe dream, I know). I'm pretty happy with my grayscale, though the more I look at your results, the more tempting the Lumagen becomes .

That's good to hear about the light output; I wasn't sure how on earth I was supposed to be able to get an extra 15ftL out of it.
chrisp9446's Avatar chrisp9446
11:41 AM Liked: 10
post #7 of 25
03-13-2012 | Posts: 84
Joined: Nov 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

The following report is from an ST30 I did last fall. Output was about 35fL using Accupel window patterns and it had zero green issues.

Perhaps your set is defective.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gremmy View Post

And no, the overly bright green primary is not related to the green blob. The green blob is a panel uniformity issue. So far I do not have it.

Thanks for sharing the report; everything there looks really good!

To go with the extreme green luminance, I also notice some green ghosting in some dark areas of 3D images. Not sure if that is related, but it is also unfortunate.

Where in the set is the color decoding done? Would there be a chance of getting a repair (i.e. replace a board) from Panasonic on that, or would that generally require replacement of the TV? (I know the true answer lies with Panasonic, whom I'll approach, but wasn't sure how best to approach them).
gremmy's Avatar gremmy
12:01 PM Liked: 17
post #8 of 25
03-13-2012 | Posts: 3,942
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisp9446 View Post

Thanks for sharing the report; everything there looks really good!

To go with the extreme green luminance, I also notice some green ghosting in some dark areas of 3D images. Not sure if that is related, but it is also unfortunate.

Where in the set is the color decoding done? Would there be a chance of getting a repair (i.e. replace a board) from Panasonic on that, or would that generally require replacement of the TV? (I know the true answer lies with Panasonic, whom I'll approach, but wasn't sure how best to approach them).

I'm not sure, but if you can get them to repair the set to correct an overly bright green primary, that would be of great interest to a lot of people. Somehow I expect they are going to tell you that the set is operating within accepted tolerances, since many people do have an overly bright green primary (some don't, but a lot do).
chrisp9446's Avatar chrisp9446
08:02 PM Liked: 10
post #9 of 25
03-13-2012 | Posts: 84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gremmy View Post

I'm not sure, but if you can get them to repair the set to correct an overly bright green primary, that would be of great interest to a lot of people. Somehow I espect they are going to tell you that the set is operating within accepted tolerances, since many people do have an overly bright green primary (some don't, but a lot do).

I submitted a service request, so I'll let you know what I hear back. I'd tend to agree that they'll probably brush it off, but it can't hurt to ask since it is so far off from correct.
themoth33's Avatar themoth33
08:11 PM Liked: 10
post #10 of 25
03-14-2012 | Posts: 24
Joined: Jan 2011
Chad b just dd my 65 st30 and will post my report for you to compare. He was able to do a day, night and the 3d. 3d was the worst and most improved compared to night. Day came out great too
chrisp9446's Avatar chrisp9446
05:26 PM Liked: 10
post #11 of 25
03-19-2012 | Posts: 84
Joined: Nov 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisp9446 View Post

I submitted a service request, so I'll let you know what I hear back. I'd tend to agree that they'll probably brush it off, but it can't hurt to ask since it is so far off from correct.

Well, they're going to send someone out to see if they can fix it.

Does anyone know of a good movie or other program that would be best for showing off the high green luminance, in case the Panasonic person isn't completely convinced? I have a couple ready, but would like to show the worst case scenario, if one exists.
chunon's Avatar chunon
10:02 AM Liked: 565
post #12 of 25
03-21-2012 | Posts: 5,390
Joined: Dec 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisp9446 View Post

Cinema mode (night)

Contrast - 60
Brightness - 57
Color - 50
Tint - 3
Warm2

HDMI mode -- graphics

I did the calibration in the service menu using rcut/rdrv and bcut/bdrv. The exact values won't really be of any help, but can post them if needed.

With any contrast above 60, there was no impact on luminance or anything else.

Would you mind pm'ing the SM values ?
gremmy's Avatar gremmy
07:29 AM Liked: 17
post #13 of 25
03-23-2012 | Posts: 3,942
Joined: Sep 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisp9446 View Post

Well, they're going to send someone out to see if they can fix it.

Does anyone know of a good movie or other program that would be best for showing off the high green luminance, in case the Panasonic person isn't completely convinced? I have a couple ready, but would like to show the worst case scenario, if one exists.

Green push is a hard thing to pin down without a meter. What I noticed was that it was very hard to get flesh tones to look right. Unfortunately, this is unlikely to convince a technician.

I'd just show him the calibration report, formatted to draw attention to the green primary delta. I doubt he'll have any clue what it means, so be prepared to sell him on it.
airscapes's Avatar airscapes
07:43 AM Liked: 140
post #14 of 25
03-23-2012 | Posts: 4,872
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisp9446 View Post

Cinema mode (night)

Contrast - 60
Brightness - 57
Color - 50
Tint - 3
Warm2

HDMI mode -- graphics


I did the calibration in the service menu using rcut/rdrv and bcut/bdrv. The exact values won't really be of any help, but can post them if needed.

With any contrast above 60, there was no impact on luminance or anything else.

Never worked on one of these, but for some reason that mode = graphics seems like a big old red flag waving..Can anyone explain what that is doing and why it would be in a graphics mode when doing a video calibration? Graphics say PC to me.
chrisp9446's Avatar chrisp9446
08:09 AM Liked: 10
post #15 of 25
03-23-2012 | Posts: 84
Joined: Nov 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by gremmy View Post

Green push is a hard thing to pin down without a meter. What I noticed was that it was very hard to get flesh tones to look right. Unfortunately, this is unlikely to convince a technician.

I'd just show him the calibration report, formatted to draw attention to the green primary delta. I doubt he'll have any clue what it means, so be prepared to sell him on it.

I agree it's tough because most of the time, unless you know what something's supposed to look like, it's hard to tell. It just doesn't look right.

That's going to be one of the things I use -- showing the +60% green primary luminance. I'm also going to show a couple of shows where faces actually do have a visibly green tint on the sides and a 3D program that exhibits the green ghosting.
chrisp9446's Avatar chrisp9446
08:10 AM Liked: 10
post #16 of 25
03-23-2012 | Posts: 84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airscapes View Post

Never worked on one of these, but for some reason that mode = graphics seems like a big old red flag waving..Can anyone explain what that is doing and why it would be in a graphics mode when doing a video calibration? Graphics say PC to me.

I experimented with all of the HDMI modes (I believe off, auto, photos, and graphics) and graphics had the smoothest gamma and most accurate grayscale to start with. I checked the color gamut with all four of the modes and found that there was essentially no difference between them on that front.
chrisp9446's Avatar chrisp9446
03:12 PM Liked: 10
post #17 of 25
03-23-2012 | Posts: 84
Joined: Nov 2008
The authorized service place nearby came over this afternoon to look at the set. He couldn't really notice the green tint to faces, but definitely noticed the green ghosting in 3D. After him talking to Panasonic, they're going to try to replace the SC board first. It's apparently going to "be a long process" if that doesn't work, because they'll replace another board, then replace the panel, etc. before finally replacing the set. I'll let you know how it goes.

Anyone know what the SC board is for?
chrisp9446's Avatar chrisp9446
03:09 PM Liked: 10
post #18 of 25
04-03-2012 | Posts: 84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisp9446 View Post

The authorized service place nearby came over this afternoon to look at the set. He couldn't really notice the green tint to faces, but definitely noticed the green ghosting in 3D. After him talking to Panasonic, they're going to try to replace the SC board first. It's apparently going to "be a long process" if that doesn't work, because they'll replace another board, then replace the panel, etc. before finally replacing the set. I'll let you know how it goes.

Anyone know what the SC board is for?

They came out and swapped the SC board. It didn't change anything (the repair guy was not surprised), so they're going to replace the A board next.
chrisp9446's Avatar chrisp9446
05:34 PM Liked: 10
post #19 of 25
04-11-2012 | Posts: 84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisp9446 View Post

They came out and swapped the SC board. It didn't change anything (the repair guy was not surprised), so they're going to replace the A board next.

The tech came out and replaced the A board and it still didn't fix the problem. He then raised VSUS from low to high (via Panasonic's instructions) to see if it had any impact, but it did not. He called Panasonic and they were confused and solution-less, so they asked for pictures.

I was able to take some pictures of what the green ghosting looks like in 3D - 3569 is through the left glasses lens and 3572 is without the glasses.
LL
LL
chunon's Avatar chunon
06:14 AM Liked: 565
post #20 of 25
04-12-2012 | Posts: 5,390
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisp9446 View Post

The tech came out and replaced the A board and it still didn't fix the problem. He then raised VSUS from low to high (via Panasonic's instructions) to see if it had any impact, but it did not. He called Panasonic and they were confused and solution-less, so they asked for pictures.

I was able to take some pictures of what the green ghosting looks like in 3D - 3569 is through the left glasses lens and 3572 is without the glasses.

Wow that is pretty noticeable, I have the same set as you and havent seen anything like that so far.
chrisp9446's Avatar chrisp9446
02:42 PM Liked: 10
post #21 of 25
07-30-2012 | Posts: 84
Joined: Nov 2008
So, after replacing the A board, SC board, SS board, V board, and sending pictures of the problem, Panasonic finally agrees that there's a problem. Three months later, they're now going to replace the set. Let's hope that this next one works right!
finedots's Avatar finedots
11:08 PM Liked: 10
post #22 of 25
09-03-2012 | Posts: 2
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I'm having a serious problem watching DVDs on this TV. I'm not talking about Blu-rays, just standard DVDs. Basically, the TV is processing too much of the content and is stripping away the movie's cinematic effects. When I watch a movie, it looks too clean, like I'm watching the pre-production rushes. I've calibrated the TV to my best of my abilities by following these and other threads and I have nothing but positive comments to make about the watching HDTV or online content, but DVDs are ruined for me. Can someone please help me with the settings to help return the TV to a minimal processing operations.

Many many thanks.
chunon's Avatar chunon
02:02 PM Liked: 565
post #23 of 25
09-04-2012 | Posts: 5,390
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finedots View Post

I'm having a serious problem watching DVDs on this TV. I'm not talking about Blu-rays, just standard DVDs. Basically, the TV is processing too much of the content and is stripping away the movie's cinematic effects. When I watch a movie, it looks too clean, like I'm watching the pre-production rushes. I've calibrated the TV to my best of my abilities by following these and other threads and I have nothing but positive comments to make about the watching HDTV or online content, but DVDs are ruined for me. Can someone please help me with the settings to help return the TV to a minimal processing operations.
Many many thanks.

I have the same set no problem with upconverted dvd's. Do you have motion smoother on ? Is 24fps enabled ?
finedots's Avatar finedots
11:45 AM Liked: 10
post #24 of 25
09-05-2012 | Posts: 2
Joined: Sep 2012
I changed the motion smoother setting to off under the cinema picture setting but I couldn't change the 24 fps (not that I needed to as it was grayed-out on 24fps). So far, the picture looks much better. I'll give it a try tonight under darker conditions. Thank you for your help. This was immensely helpful.
chunon's Avatar chunon
12:48 PM Liked: 565
post #25 of 25
09-05-2012 | Posts: 5,390
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finedots View Post

I changed the motion smoother setting to off under the cinema picture setting but I couldn't change the 24 fps (not that I needed to as it was grayed-out on 24fps). So far, the picture looks much better. I'll give it a try tonight under darker conditions. Thank you for your help. This was immensely helpful.

You are welcome sure sounded like SOE(Soap Opera Effect), it baffles me that they added that as a "feature" on Plasma just to compete with LCD.
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