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post #1 of 32 Old 03-18-2012, 05:59 PM - Thread Starter
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From the SpectraCal site, I can see that these two BD setup/calibration discs are available. Which others exist (in Blu-ray Disc format only) and what are the pros/cons of each?

*DVE HD Basics Blu-ray

*Spears & Munsil HD Benchmark Blu-Ray

For example, do some focus more on not clipping WTW above 235 than others when showing patterns for setting contrast? Are some more user-friendly than others? Some more complete/comprehensive?

I'm looking for good patterns for setting sharpness (horizontal and vertical), brightness, and contrast (including individual R, G, and B channel clipping for setting contrast and color clipping patterns). I would prefer if the disc allowed clipping WTW content for setting contrast if desired. I've heard the Spears & Munsil HD Benchmark Blu-Ray doesn't really allow this.

I'd like to be able to set contrast to the highest possible setting where there is no clipping below 235, not for white nor the individual R,G, and B channels.

Would color decoding patterns also be helpful or would checking the brightness of the primaries and hues of the secondaries via meter/software do the exact same thing?

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Display: Samsung UN46EH6030 LED-LCD TV; Audio: Yamaha HTR-3066 AVR/AMP, Sony Core Bookshelves (Sony SS-CS5) and Center (Sony SS-CS8) as fronts, Cambridge Audio S20 Bookshelves (CA S20-N) as surrounds, Dayton Audio SUB-1200 as subwoofer; Sources: PS4 (doubles as primary BD player), Xbox One, PS3, Xbox 360, Motorola RNG150N (Cable Box)
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post #2 of 32 Old 03-18-2012, 09:29 PM
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The Disney WOW disc. Easy to use with excellent documentation and explanations throughout the disc.

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post #3 of 32 Old 03-18-2012, 10:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

I'd like to be able to set contrast to the highest possible setting where there is no clipping below 235, not for white nor the individual R,G, and B channels.

You need to focus on not clipping on the way up as high as you can go, 254 (off a disc).

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post #4 of 32 Old 03-19-2012, 05:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

For example, do some focus more on not clipping WTW above 235 than others when showing patterns for setting contrast? Are some more user-friendly than others? Some more complete/comprehensive?

I'm looking for good patterns for setting sharpness (horizontal and vertical), brightness, and contrast (including individual R, G, and B channel clipping for setting contrast and color clipping patterns). I would prefer if the disc allowed clipping WTW content for setting contrast if desired. I've heard the Spears & Munsil HD Benchmark Blu-Ray doesn't really allow this.


Yes, it does.

This pattern is used for setting sharpness:


This pattern will help you determine if white is being clipped:


And this pattern will help you determine if the individual RGB channels are being clipped:

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post #5 of 32 Old 03-19-2012, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

Which others exist (in Blu-ray Disc format only)

Check & Adjustment Blu-Ray Demo Discs

THX Blu-Ray Demo Disc

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
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post #6 of 32 Old 03-19-2012, 10:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

You need to focus on not clipping on the way up as high as you can go, 254 (off a disc).

I'm currently using the (3) White Clipping pattern and (A4) Color Clipping pattern from the AVS Disc for setting contrast. What I like about these patterns is that it lets the user decide whether to show WTW all the way up to 254 or just show all detail up to 234 instead (or some point in between). Since my primary TV is an LG LCD (S-IPS) with a poor black level, I want to keep contrast as high as possible while preserving all detail up to 234 for white and the individual R, G, and B channels. This will maximize dynamic range and contrast ratio for content that is within the 16 to 235 video range and allow me to use the lowest possible backlight setting that still provides the desired peak white output. I realize this is a compromise, but I feel maximizing dynamic range from 16 to 235 is more critical on my specific TV than showing all the way up to 254 at the expense of contrast ratio and black level.

From what, I've read the Spears & Munsil disc doesn't work too well for setting contrast if you don't want to go past 234, at least for the color clipping pattern.

UN46EH6030 Calibration/Settings
Display: Samsung UN46EH6030 LED-LCD TV; Audio: Yamaha HTR-3066 AVR/AMP, Sony Core Bookshelves (Sony SS-CS5) and Center (Sony SS-CS8) as fronts, Cambridge Audio S20 Bookshelves (CA S20-N) as surrounds, Dayton Audio SUB-1200 as subwoofer; Sources: PS4 (doubles as primary BD player), Xbox One, PS3, Xbox 360, Motorola RNG150N (Cable Box)
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post #7 of 32 Old 03-19-2012, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

From what, I've read the Spears & Munsil disc doesn't work too well for setting contrast if you don't want to go past 234, at least for the color clipping pattern.

That's because they want you to calibrate correctly.

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post #8 of 32 Old 03-19-2012, 10:42 AM
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Quote:


That's because they want you to calibrate correctly

:-)

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post #9 of 32 Old 03-19-2012, 10:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

That's because they want you to calibrate correctly.

well, like I said it's a compromise between showing content that's not present in all source material at the expense of dynamic range versus maximizing dynamic range for content present in all source material at the expense of clipping any WTW content.

besides, this is an area where even all the experts don't agree so I wouldn't use the term "correct"; "ideal" seems more appropriate

UN46EH6030 Calibration/Settings
Display: Samsung UN46EH6030 LED-LCD TV; Audio: Yamaha HTR-3066 AVR/AMP, Sony Core Bookshelves (Sony SS-CS5) and Center (Sony SS-CS8) as fronts, Cambridge Audio S20 Bookshelves (CA S20-N) as surrounds, Dayton Audio SUB-1200 as subwoofer; Sources: PS4 (doubles as primary BD player), Xbox One, PS3, Xbox 360, Motorola RNG150N (Cable Box)
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post #10 of 32 Old 03-19-2012, 10:05 PM - Thread Starter
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EDIT: I decided to try showing WTW all the way up to 254 to see just how much dynamic range would be lost. Surprisingly, very little was lost.

 

Contrast 99%.pdf 45.275390625k . file

 

Contrast 99%.doc 24k . file

 

Contrast 84%.pdf 65.583984375k . file

 

Contrast 84%.doc 24k . file
Attached Files
File Type: doc Contrast 84%.doc (24.0 KB, 12 views)
File Type: pdf Contrast 84%.pdf (65.6 KB, 19 views)
File Type: doc Contrast 99%.doc (24.0 KB, 7 views)
File Type: pdf Contrast 99%.pdf (45.3 KB, 20 views)

UN46EH6030 Calibration/Settings
Display: Samsung UN46EH6030 LED-LCD TV; Audio: Yamaha HTR-3066 AVR/AMP, Sony Core Bookshelves (Sony SS-CS5) and Center (Sony SS-CS8) as fronts, Cambridge Audio S20 Bookshelves (CA S20-N) as surrounds, Dayton Audio SUB-1200 as subwoofer; Sources: PS4 (doubles as primary BD player), Xbox One, PS3, Xbox 360, Motorola RNG150N (Cable Box)
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post #11 of 32 Old 03-20-2012, 02:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Going back to the purpose of this thread, which BD disc is the most complete & comprehensive? I'm quite technically savvy, so I'm not necessary looking for the most user friendly disc. I already use the AVS Disc (AVCHD format, version 2D), so I looking for something that complements it well.

UN46EH6030 Calibration/Settings
Display: Samsung UN46EH6030 LED-LCD TV; Audio: Yamaha HTR-3066 AVR/AMP, Sony Core Bookshelves (Sony SS-CS5) and Center (Sony SS-CS8) as fronts, Cambridge Audio S20 Bookshelves (CA S20-N) as surrounds, Dayton Audio SUB-1200 as subwoofer; Sources: PS4 (doubles as primary BD player), Xbox One, PS3, Xbox 360, Motorola RNG150N (Cable Box)
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post #12 of 32 Old 03-20-2012, 02:38 PM
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I'd say add (and use) both DVE HD Basics and Spears & Munsil...

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post #13 of 32 Old 03-20-2012, 02:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbe View Post

I'd say add (and use) both DVE HD Basics and Spears & Munsil...

two questions:

are those the only two I should be looking at?

if I could have only one, which would it be and why?

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Display: Samsung UN46EH6030 LED-LCD TV; Audio: Yamaha HTR-3066 AVR/AMP, Sony Core Bookshelves (Sony SS-CS5) and Center (Sony SS-CS8) as fronts, Cambridge Audio S20 Bookshelves (CA S20-N) as surrounds, Dayton Audio SUB-1200 as subwoofer; Sources: PS4 (doubles as primary BD player), Xbox One, PS3, Xbox 360, Motorola RNG150N (Cable Box)
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post #14 of 32 Old 03-20-2012, 03:10 PM
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I received a call but I was going to edit my post above.. Many Calibrators I have spoken to have added Disney's Wow as well.. so if you have the budget, maybe add all three... the two titles I posted above should take care of you though (and I would have both in your kit)...

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post #15 of 32 Old 03-20-2012, 03:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbe View Post

I received a call but I was going to edit my post above.. Many Calibrators I have spoken to have added Disney's Wow as well.. so if you have the budget, maybe add all three... the two titles I posted above should take care of you though (and I would have both in your kit)...

at the moment, I'd like to get one first

which should that be?

UN46EH6030 Calibration/Settings
Display: Samsung UN46EH6030 LED-LCD TV; Audio: Yamaha HTR-3066 AVR/AMP, Sony Core Bookshelves (Sony SS-CS5) and Center (Sony SS-CS8) as fronts, Cambridge Audio S20 Bookshelves (CA S20-N) as surrounds, Dayton Audio SUB-1200 as subwoofer; Sources: PS4 (doubles as primary BD player), Xbox One, PS3, Xbox 360, Motorola RNG150N (Cable Box)
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post #16 of 32 Old 03-20-2012, 03:22 PM
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I had DVE first.... but I really use S&M more now (and AVS HD709) - I like and use the clipping patterns.. I guess, from following your past posts a bit, I think S&M may the right choice for you.. lets get input from others as well...

EDIT: But, then again, DVE has the Demo material that so many have come to rely on for some of their reference material

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post #17 of 32 Old 03-20-2012, 05:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbe View Post

I had DVE first.... but I really use S&M more now (and AVS HD709) - I like and use the clipping patterns.. I guess, from following your past posts a bit, I think S&M may the right choice for you.. lets get input from others as well...

EDIT: But, then again, DVE has the Demo material that so many have come to rely on for some of their reference material

Just realized the DVE HD Basics Blu-ray is on Netflix. So I can preview it to see if it has what I want.

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post #18 of 32 Old 03-20-2012, 06:42 PM
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Spears & Munsil is easier for most to use, but DVE BD has more patterns.

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post #19 of 32 Old 03-20-2012, 07:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsskid View Post

Spears & Munsil is easier for most to use, but DVE BD has more patterns.

what patterns are those? what types/categories?

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Display: Samsung UN46EH6030 LED-LCD TV; Audio: Yamaha HTR-3066 AVR/AMP, Sony Core Bookshelves (Sony SS-CS5) and Center (Sony SS-CS8) as fronts, Cambridge Audio S20 Bookshelves (CA S20-N) as surrounds, Dayton Audio SUB-1200 as subwoofer; Sources: PS4 (doubles as primary BD player), Xbox One, PS3, Xbox 360, Motorola RNG150N (Cable Box)
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post #20 of 32 Old 03-21-2012, 04:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

what patterns are those? what types/categories?

0% stimuli through 100% stimuli, in 5% increments, just for starters. You can't do a grayscale calibration with Spears & Munsil.

You can do a comparison by opening up the two links below.

Here's a list of DVE BD patterns
http://www.videoessentials.com/docs/...cs%20Index.pdf

Here's a list of S&M patterns
http://www.spearsandmunsil.com/pdf/U..._Benchmark.pdf

Don't get me wrong, I like the Spears & Munsil disc very much, but if you want to do anything more than a basic calibration, you'll need the DVE BD disc.

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post #21 of 32 Old 03-21-2012, 05:45 AM
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I have A Video Standard on laserdisc (pre-Digital Video Essentials) and Digital Video Essentials on DVD and Blu.

However, AVS709 (which is free) is the only calibration disc I use.

I used AVIA in the past and sometimes use a THX pattern at someone else's house if they want to just setup basic stuff like brightness and contrast.

I find AVS709 to be better than the rest for my own use.

(I also made a DVD from Tom Huffman to use in case I encounter a player that won't work with AVS709.)

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post #22 of 32 Old 03-21-2012, 05:46 AM
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I recently bought the S&M Bench Mark disk. I played with it a bit but need to look at it some more. It has a lot of content for testing things that can not be adjusted or fixed. Hence the Bench Mark name. This is great for folks evaluating new products. I need to spend some time with it and take a closer look, my first pass didn't really impress me all that much.
I do wish S&M had not picked the WORST COLOR for their website.. Halloween colors SUCK for reading.. WHAT WERE THEY THINKING!
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post #23 of 32 Old 03-21-2012, 06:07 AM
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I have the following and they pretty much cover all my needs. For DirecTV i use converted AVS709 patterns.

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post #24 of 32 Old 03-21-2012, 08:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsskid View Post

Spears & Munsil is easier for most to use, but DVE BD has more patterns.

I think DVE is easier..


You should have both in your kit, start with either one.. I'd say purchase S&M, try DVE from netflix... once you have the budget, purchase DVE. You already have AVS HD709

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post #25 of 32 Old 03-21-2012, 10:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsskid View Post

0% stimuli through 100% stimuli, in 5% increments, just for starters. You can't do a grayscale calibration with Spears & Munsil.

You can do a comparison by opening up the two links below.

Here's a list of DVE BD patterns
http://www.videoessentials.com/docs/...cs%20Index.pdf

Here's a list of S&M patterns
http://www.spearsandmunsil.com/pdf/U..._Benchmark.pdf

Don't get me wrong, I like the Spears & Munsil disc very much, but if you want to do anything more than a basic calibration, you'll need the DVE BD disc.

Well, I have the AVS disc, which has all the patterns needed for a full meter/software calibration. I'm looking for something to check all the basic settings and picture options with (i.e. everything other than grayscale/gamma/color gamut).

UN46EH6030 Calibration/Settings
Display: Samsung UN46EH6030 LED-LCD TV; Audio: Yamaha HTR-3066 AVR/AMP, Sony Core Bookshelves (Sony SS-CS5) and Center (Sony SS-CS8) as fronts, Cambridge Audio S20 Bookshelves (CA S20-N) as surrounds, Dayton Audio SUB-1200 as subwoofer; Sources: PS4 (doubles as primary BD player), Xbox One, PS3, Xbox 360, Motorola RNG150N (Cable Box)
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post #26 of 32 Old 03-21-2012, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

Well, I have the AVS disc, which has all the patterns needed for a full meter/software calibration. I'm looking for something to check all the basic settings and picture options with (i.e. everything other than grayscale/gamma/color gamut).

Ok, so now I'm confused, why can't you just use the AVS disc that you already have?

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post #27 of 32 Old 03-21-2012, 03:13 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

Well, I have the AVS disc, which has all the patterns needed for a full meter/software calibration. I'm looking for something to check all the basic settings and picture options with (i.e. everything other than grayscale/gamma/color gamut).

Just to venture a suggestion, I have AVS HD709, DVE, Avia, and have borrowed and used Spears & Munsil several times. My last acquisition was the Disney WOW disc which is surprisingly good and sounds like what you may be after as for stepping through and doing quick basic picture quality checks. I particularly liked the WTW and color tests that it provides without having to make my way from one set of menus to another like in AVS HD709. Plus, the WTW and BTB checks seem to have more subtle graduations than the other discs I've used.

In short, I think once you got familiar with it, you may like it for just the thing you mentioned above. Anyway, I like it as another very good alternative Media Test Disc.
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post #28 of 32 Old 03-21-2012, 03:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsskid View Post

Ok, so now I'm confused, why can't you just use the AVS disc that you already have?

The AVS disc is good, especially for patterns for meter use. However, I want at least one other disc to supplement it for everything non-meter related. Looks like I need to do some homework to learn more about the S&M HD Benchmark and Disney WOW. I will be getting the DVE HD Basics soon from Netflix.

On a side note, the color space tests on the HD Benchmark seem interesting.

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Display: Samsung UN46EH6030 LED-LCD TV; Audio: Yamaha HTR-3066 AVR/AMP, Sony Core Bookshelves (Sony SS-CS5) and Center (Sony SS-CS8) as fronts, Cambridge Audio S20 Bookshelves (CA S20-N) as surrounds, Dayton Audio SUB-1200 as subwoofer; Sources: PS4 (doubles as primary BD player), Xbox One, PS3, Xbox 360, Motorola RNG150N (Cable Box)
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post #29 of 32 Old 03-21-2012, 03:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Phase700B View Post

Just to venture a suggestion, I have AVS HD709, DVE, Avia, and have borrowed and used Spears & Munsil several times. My last acquisition was the Disney WOW disc which is surprisingly good and sounds like what you may be after as for stepping through and doing quick basic picture quality checks. I particularly liked the WTW and color tests that it provides without having to make my way from one set of menus to another like in AVS HD709. Plus, the WTW and BTB checks seem to have more subtle graduations than the other discs I've used.

In short, I think once you got familiar with it, you may like it for just the thing you mentioned above. Anyway, I like it as another very good alternative Media Test Disc.

I will look into the Disney WOW Disc.

EDIT: Also, can you elaborate on the WTW and BTB checks having more subtle graduations than other discs? Sounds like I can set brightness and contrast more precisely with those, which would be worthwhile since it is those two settings are basis of any good calibration.

UN46EH6030 Calibration/Settings
Display: Samsung UN46EH6030 LED-LCD TV; Audio: Yamaha HTR-3066 AVR/AMP, Sony Core Bookshelves (Sony SS-CS5) and Center (Sony SS-CS8) as fronts, Cambridge Audio S20 Bookshelves (CA S20-N) as surrounds, Dayton Audio SUB-1200 as subwoofer; Sources: PS4 (doubles as primary BD player), Xbox One, PS3, Xbox 360, Motorola RNG150N (Cable Box)
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post #30 of 32 Old 03-21-2012, 05:01 PM
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Sounds like I can set brightness and contrast more precisely with those

Well, I suggest you rely on Joe Kane's reference for those basics..

I posted my recommendations since I have followed your past posts and based on those posts, I gave my recommendations to you... I'm not sure some that others that have posted here have followed you.

At your level which is beyond many (~ entry level), I suggest buying S&M now, renting DVE (since you know how).. but I suggest you consider owning both... as I said, many Calibrators have also added Disney's offering to their kit.. that should be telling...

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